CD-Text Winamp plugin??? (revisited)

[AudioExpression]

I makes no sence why Winamp cannot remain free with CD-text reading capability. Exact Audio Copy is card-ware (essentially free) and can read CD-Text info on CD's. Are Germans the only ones with "kahonies."

I really don't get it.:weird:

Is it a question of copyrighted CD-Text reading program code? Then create new code! Look at MS's MPEG 4 CODEC and the Divx CODEC. First the authors of Divx allegedly stole MS's CODEC and renamed it. So after being accused, they created their own version of the MPEG 4 CODEC from scratch. Now their new versions are perfectly legal.

Is it a question of keeping down the numbers of pirated compilation CD's? I can think of some reasons to have the CD-Text reading ability that are completely legit, i.e., One could create his own bands cd's including CD-Text, or merely use it for family event recording/annotation, then there are countless tunes that are in the public domain, to name a few.

The reason I want Winamp to be capable of reading CD-Text is because I'm not always connected to the Internet. I unplug my ADSL Router for security purposes. Sometimes I want to play a CD while I'm doing some Wordprocessing or updating a Spreadsheet. While I'm listening I'll hear a particularly great tune that I hadn't noticed before, (I own over 400 store bought CD's and it's hard to keep track sometimes) so I move down to the taskbar and click on Winamp. When it pops up it just says, "CD Track 4." The reason I do this is to make a mental note of a newly discovered favorite for future reference, it's not so I can go through a half an hour setup/connect ordeal so I can retrieve CDDB info from the internet (remember I was working on a spreadsheet).

I've seen a lot of people say Winamp can't, don't and won't. Which is usually the extent of their knowledge. I've yet to see "WHY" they can't, don't or won't. Does anyone know or think they know the answer to this question?

I see no reason, and would like to see someone that's capable, create a Winamp plugin that can either read CD-Text (preferrably), or at least retrieve the info from a local (downloaded) CDDB.

Thanks for your "honest" assistance.


Sincerely,

AudioExpression
audioexpression@hotmail.com:)

[Reaper]

Originally posted by AudioExpression
or at least retrieve the info from a local (downloaded) CDDB.


CDReader (http://www.url*****~copah/) does this.

[AudioExpression]

Originally posted by Reaper


CDReader (http://www.url*****~copah/) does this.

First I'd like to thank you for your attempt to help. Thank You! ;)

I'm afraid my first was not clear enough. I have downloaded the complete freedb database from www.freedb.org @ 135 Megs rar'd and 600 plus megs extracted.

Cdreader simply uses the cdplayer.ini to read from. If you have never appended the information you require, then it won't be there. The freedb database has multiple dir's for the various types of music, i.e., blues, rock, newage, etc. Inside each dir you'll find all of the albums of that genre that have already been added. I have yet to find an album not listed in it. It allows you to be disconnected from the internet while having the ability to query virtually any album available.

CDreader cannot be pointed to this "standardized format" "local" database as it can only be configured to access the internet for the "remote" database or the "local" cdplayer.ini.


Thanks again!

Sincerely,


AudioExpressions
audioexpressions@hotmail.com:D

[ujay]

Originally posted by AudioExpression
I've yet to see "WHY" they can't, don't or won't. Does anyone know or think they know the answer to this question?


Pure speculation this.

CD Text.
--------
Sony/Philips have made claims to the CD Text format. While I don't think this has ever been tested in court, it may be enough to make larger companies steer clear of potential litigation.

Remote CDDB.
------------
Historically, there was considerable ill feeling when Gracenote 'privatised' what had been, until then, an open source database. It was seen as ripping off the work done by the many, many people who had made the submissions that built it in the first place.
In response freeDb.org was set up in an attempt to keep the open source database available and has been very sucessfull in this.

This has produced a situation where Gracenote has been able to put more resources into their archive, and in general it is more complete and better maintained. They are, of course, very concerned that there should be no simple mechanism to transfer records between the two competing archives. So no local download is available, and of the programs I have that use Gracenote (Winamp, WaveLab) none has the ability to use a standard local cache file such as cdplayer.ini, which would make such transfers child's play. Maybe this is part of the licensing deal.

Originally posted by AudioExpression

CDreader cannot be pointed to this "standardized format" "local" database as it can only be configured to access the internet for the "remote" database or the "local" cdplayer.ini.

True. So use a program that can :)

Of the free ones, 'CDex', 'EAC' and 'Feurio' all have this ability. (links all over the place)

'CDex' and 'EAC' only need the archive to be unpacked, but have limited player capabilities.

'Feurio' needs the archive to be installed as well as unpacked, but has the advantage of a very capable and complete CD player and the whole of the freeDB.org database in fully searchable form (i.e. you don't need the actual CD to be able to look up track details).

Or, initially, use one of the above programs to register CDs in cdplayer.ini and then use Winamp with CDReader set to 'local CDDB' as your player.

UJ

[AudioExpression]

Originally posted by ujay

Sony/Philips have made claims to the CD Text format. While I don't think this has ever been tested in court, it may be enough to make larger companies steer clear of potential litigation.

Ok It's possible, but I've looked at all the other evidence and find it hard to believe, i.e., CDRWin, Easy CD Creator, Nero, Feurio!, CloneCD, EAC, Toshiba DVD players, Toshiba DVD-ROM Drives, and Yamaha DVD-ROM drives either read and/or write CD-Text. These are all large companies as far as I'm concerned, and are just a few that I'm certain of. I'm sure the list goes on and on. Of course they could be paying a license fee to Sony/Philips for using the CD-Text format, but I doubt it.

This whole thing is about someone creating a plugin that either allows for cd-text reading or a local "complete" freedb query. If I knew more about coding I'd write the plugin myself.
Originally posted by ujay

True. So use a program that can.

You're slipping here ujay, as I'm sure everyone here will agree: There is only "ONE" Audio player for an x86 machine and that player is: "WinAmp" PERIOD!!! ;) he he he

Why would anyone in their right mind, use anythjing else? :D

I just want to see it get even better, and capture an even greater user share.

Later,

AudioExpression
audioexpression@hotmail.com

[jazmaan]

I create my own CD's from my own original music. I use Roxio EZ CD Creator to make the CD's and I always include CD-Text. I do NOT want my CD information on CDDB or any other indexing service because the CD's I create are for me and my friends period. I do not understand why Winamp won't read CD-Text information when Musicmatch 7.2 will. This sucks and there is no good excuse for it. Get your act together Winamp!

[Reaper]

Originally posted by jazmaan
I create my own CD's from my own original music. I use Roxio EZ CD Creator to make the CD's and I always include CD-Text. I do NOT want my CD information on CDDB or any other indexing service because the CD's I create are for me and my friends period. I do not understand why Winamp won't read CD-Text information when Musicmatch 7.2 will. This sucks and there is no good excuse for it. Get your act together Winamp!

Well if you want Winamp to remain free, CD Text won't be supported by default.


/edit
Musicmatch costs money. That money pays for the different licences the makers of Musicmatch are required to pay. The free/trial version of Musicmatch may read CD Text but that version is also nagware. Winamp is free and is not nagware. So the CD Text isn't supported, leading to Winamp being free. Get it?

[jazmaan]

Can you point me to some online documentation showing that any program that simply reads and displays CD-Text off a CD needs to pay a licensing fee? In the support section for Musicmatch 7.2 they state that CD-Text is a "non-standardized" protocol which is why they've been slow in adding support because they need to test many different brands of hardware. That seems somewhat inconsistent with it being a licensed protocol.

[Reaper]

Well like Sawg said in a previous thread to you, if you don't like the fact Winamp doesn't support CD Text, don't use it, use Musicmatch. I will discontinue with this and only reply back if necessary.

[jazmaan]

"If you don't like it, you can lump it. I'm taking my ball and I'm going home."

"CD-Text is almost dead anyway."

"CD-Text requires a licensing fee. Don't ask us for any details."

What a load of baloney.

[GoldenSphynx]

Originally posted by AudioExpression

There is only "ONE" Audio player for an x86 machine and that player is: "WinAmp" PERIOD!!! ;) he he he

Actually, not to be off-topic but it's Winamp, winamp, WINAMP, or even WinAMP, but definately not WinAmp.

:p

[jazmaan]

I wonder if the real reason Winamp won't support CD-Text is that they are prevented from doing so because of some deal they have with Gracenote CDDB? CD-Text makes Gracenote less necessary doesn't it?

If Winamp gets some payoff for using Gracenote that would be consistent with the "Winamp wouldn't be free if it had CD-Text" responses.

[Lion King]

didn't aol pay for using cddb² instead of getting payed?

[Wizard]

Maybe if someone e-mailed the guy that makes CD Reader about adding CD-Text support?
http://www.url*****~copah/ and the e-mail is at the end of his homepage. I've tried to, but keep getting automated replies that I acted like a spammer or something... :weird:

[DJ Egg]

Originally posted by Wizard
Maybe if someone e-mailed the guy that makes CD Reader about adding CD-Text support?
http://www.url*****~copah/ and the e-mail is at the end of his homepage. I've tried to, but keep getting automated replies that I acted like a spammer or something... :weird: Yeah, Copah blocks all hotmail and yahoo e-mail addresses (and maybe a few other known spam domains), so you'll have to use a different non-spam-associated e-mail address to get hold of him.

Sites of interest:
http://www.ncf.carleton.ca/~aa571/cdtext.htm
http://www.feurio.com/English/faq/faq_vocable_cdtext.shtml
http://www.google.com/search?num=100&q=CD-Text

[AudioExpression]

Originally posted by GoldenSphynx

Actually, not to be off-topic but it's Winamp, winamp, WINAMP, or even WinAMP, but definately not WinAmp.
:p
You spelling bee champs are a riot. :blah:
I actually prefer WiNaMp. Or maybe wInAmP. Just curious do you believe that both are just as discernable... :rolleyes:

Hmmmmm
Originally posted by Jazmaan

I wonder if the real reason Winamp won't support CD-Text is that they are prevented from doing so because of some deal they have with Gracenote CDDB? CD-Text makes Gracenote less necessary doesn't it?


Good point. I'm not sure of the real reason or I wouldn't have initiated this old thread re-hash. But I'm pretty certain it has nothing to do with it being free. I would really like to see a response from someone that knows, i.e., a Nullsoft employee.

Originally posted by Wizard

Maybe if someone e-mailed the guy that makes CD Reader about adding CD-Text support?
http://www.url*****~copah/

Now there's an idea. Has anyone tried this? If not, maybe I will.

If only I knew how to code in C++... This thread would be history.

Later, :D

AudioExpressions
audioexpressions@hotmail.com

[Wizard]

Originally posted by AudioExpression

Now there's an idea. Has anyone tried this? If not, maybe I will.


Well, I have e-mailed him using my university account. If others could e-mail him, he'd see the big interest Winamp users have for CD-Text :D

[yeppun agashi]

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105177

[ujay]

I've asked copah about this. He is interested in implementing both CD Text and remote CDDB, but no concrete plans at present.

UJ

[Phukket]

musicmatch supports cd text, I'm there, later!!

[Reaper]

Originally posted by Phukket
musicmatch supports cd text, I'm there, later!!
Musicmatch also supports nagging the hell out of you. :p

[Phukket]

when a product does what I want, I have no problem PURCHASING IT.

and the price for musicmatch is ggod, so no nags for me and I get software that has the features I want, a win win situation, I get what I want, and the developer makes money.

A free Piece of crap, is still crap.

Paying money for crap, doesnt make it not crap

Paying money for something that works the way you want, is a good investment.

If winamp was not free, would you really use it????

[Sebastian Mares]

As far as I know, it is pretty simple to get the CD-Text data. Also, CD-Text is free. You DO NOT have to pay anything for it.
Anyway, the Read TOC 5 command returns CD-Text.

[Vickas]

I don't see why anyone can't make a plugin that reads CD-Text. I create CD's with CD-Text all the time, my Kenwood disc changer supports it very well so don't give me crap about a dying format.:rolleyes: Licensed? pshaw!

Anyway, same deal with jazzman, I don't want my compilations goin onto CDDB or freeDB, they may very well be good databases, but not for my private collections. If I was a programmer I would do it myself.

I couldn't care less if it was internal support or plugins, the fact is there is much general support (as you can plainly see) in the ranks of WinAMP's following, what's the big deal?
If winamp was not free, would you really use it????
Hell yes! how many programs do you know that support 40 different audio types internally (or at least, come with the prog) and isn't slow or cumbersome or bigger than 2 megs? Not even Cool-edit does this many (great audio edit/mixing etc prog btw)!

I occasionally use Winamp's wavewriter to decode things Cool-edit can't handle!

[ujay]

Originally posted by Sebastian Mares
As far as I know, it is pretty simple to get the CD-Text data. Of course it is, as explained in my first post.

True. So use a program that can.
Of the free ones, 'CDex', 'EAC' and 'Feurio' all have this ability. (links all over the place) ... initially, use one of the above programs to register CDs in cdplayer.ini and then use Winamp with CDReader set to 'local CDDB' as your player. Unfortunately AudioExpression completely missed the point :).

UJ

Ps. 'Feurio' currently supports CDDB1 and freeDB.

[Vickas]

I see your point ujay, but it's kindof a hassle to go thru EAC and register it into cdplayer.ini, much simpler to just make a plugin to read CD-text.

And why not make a plugin? people I know do it all the time to avoid frequent inconveniences like this. I still think It would just be easier to find or make a plugin.

[ujay]

Only takes a minute each time you get a new CD, and only needs doing once :)

The only drawback is the size limit on cdplayer.ini, which is why it would be nice to have access to a local CDDB format database as well. (Plextools, for example, uses this format whether you download the remote freeDB or not).

UJ

[Arioch]

Originally posted by ujay
Maybe this is part of the licensing deal.

AFAIK it is.

Audiograbber forum: Link1 (http://www.audiograbber.com********/boards/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001250.html) Link2 (http://www.audiograbber.com********/boards/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001454.html)

[ujay]

Don't seem to be many mainstream programs that do use them any more, I see that Steinberg are about to drop them as well.
There's been a steady snowball effect over the years, the more people who use freedb the more comprhensive it becomes and the more likely others are to follow. Can't really see the need for Gracenote any more.

UJ

[Arioch]

When wa3 was in alpha i post a vote vs. Gracenote. Alas AOL decided to be with another big major company.
I hate built-in CDDB client as it shows the worst sides of license described above.

If only CDReader was alive.... I has stoppen on 2.0beta3 for more than year and no sources are available...

[Mr Love]

If this has to do with licensing, then why not include CD TEXT in Winamp Pro? Also, the help files say nothing about CD TEXT, thus I suppose Winamp doesn't support it for burning either? Winamp sure is the best audio player around, but if you want to burn audio CDs you just have to use other programs that support CD TEXT. However I don't want to use another program when it comes to playing audio CDs - can anyone please make a plug-in for this now! :cry:


[Edit --> DJ Egg]
Old revived thread, moved from Winamp Tech Support to Discussion...

[ujay]

Before people go rushing off to install in_CDReader there are a few things that need bringing up to date.

With the introduction of Digital Audio Extraction in Winamp 5 one of the main reasons to use CDReader is now gone.

CDReader has been broken with the introduction of Winamp 5 and will now only play from 'Explorer', in particular this means you will not be able to play 'enhanced' CDs.

The old caveat about having both in_cdda and in_CDReader installed at the same time still applies. I manage to get away with it and have never had a problem, but there is no guarantee.

@ Mr Love - I don't think it's so much to do with the cost of licencing but the restrictions such a licence place on the user. It wouldn't surprise me if it didn't cost Nullsoft anything, after all, it would seem that Gracenote is structured to make most of it's money from the collection of statistics and add-on marketing.
Until Nullsoft dump Gracenote and switch to freedb or whatever I can't see any change, much though I'd like to.

Lack of CD Text reading and lack of access to a good local cache have been my main gripes about Winamp for years.
So I've kind of settled into a mish mash of compromises and half assed work arounds, it's not exactly what I want but it's the best I've come up with.
Much like real life really :)

Oh, and the very best of luck to anyone prepared to make a plugin, here's one eager user.

UJ

[lanfear]

Whatever happened to this thread?

:)

/L

(Edit: For whatever it's worth, some decent CD-Text software (http://cdtext.galleytech.com/index.html) can be found here.)

[il_Demonic_li]

Is everyone here really so naive as to not search the plugins page?

http://winamp.com/plugins/details.php?id=145599

That plugin will read your CD-Text. Good day to you all.

[Rocker]

the default winamp plugin will read cd-text now. (if it can't find cddb data and their is cd-text data on the disk itself)

so you don't need anything anymore as of winamp 5.31

[DrO]

i wouldn't recommend that plugin since it was never reliable when i tested it out a few times and was crippled to the first 3 tracks if i remember correctly. the only downside with the native nullsoft version is the sonic engine requirement (mainly because doing it in aspi reliably is a pain).

-daz

[il_Demonic_li]

eh... well, I have used it before and it worked. I am actually making a CD with CD Text for someone right now. And I just realized myself that you don't need the plugin. But as for only doing 3 tracks... I've had it doing more than that for me. :-P