Encoding Quality Question

[Boa5703]

Sup y'all I was just wondering what bitrate would be the equivalent
lossless or cd quality in the MP3, OGG, and AAC codecs. I trying to decide what codec to use in archiving my cds.

[fwgx]

I use ogg at -q7 which is, to my ears the same as a CD played on my pretty good hi-fi. I'd definatly reccomend ogg over MP3 for archive purposes. It also depends how many discs you want to make of you archives. You might prefer -q8 oggs, although I very much doubt you'll hear the differance, especially if you're using PC speakers.

[Vie]

MP3, is fine at higher bitrates, but is much bigger filewise at that quality.

OGG, Much better than MP3 in terms of sound quality and compresion, but as of yet can oly be played by a few players, or those with the correct plugins/what ever they use.

AAC, no idea

[dylman]

http://www.hydrogenaudio.org

For archival purposes neither mp3 or ogg is the best. MPC would be better.

[Russ]

Originally posted by dylman
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org

For archival purposes neither mp3 or ogg is the best. MPC would be better.

For archival purposes owning the CD is another decent idea ;). If I'm ripping it myself I use ogg at q6, I have yet to hear any artifact, so I think q7 is overkill. Indeed q5 is probably sufficient. MPC is good if you're a real purist, but why not just store the CD safely, and use that ;).

BTW: I have a $1000 listening setup and I have yet to find an artifact in q6 oggs during normal listening.

[anubis2003]

How many times has this question been asked??? I stick with MP3's because they are widely available.

[SNYder]

Your options for archiving.

1) Just save the wave files, like me :)
2) Lossless codecs like Monkey's Audio, Flac, or Shorten.
3) MPC "-quality 7" if you have REAL great ears or your are paranoid about quality and want nothing but the best but don't want to have huge wave files lying around.
4) MPC "-quality 6" if you have real good ears and/or if you plan to transcode the files into other formats in the future (for whatever reason).
5) MPC "-quality 5" if you have real good ears and/or if you don't plan to transcode the files into other formats ever (for whatever reason).

If you don't have EXTREMELY high standards for lossy codecs and maybe would like to be able to take these files you make with you on a portable audio player, then use AAC. Both OGG and AAC are roughly the same in quality, but I'd suggest AAC over OGG as it is becoming the the new world wide standard audio format. This is not an opinion. This this transition from MP3 to AAC is only picking up speed. Everything audio related will have built in AAC (MPEG-4 Audio) support within a year or two. Everything from cell phones to portable audio players to software devices. Although OGG has seen a few portable devices add support, the number will remain small, but AAC's support is growing rapidly.

A new official release of the AAC standard will be comming out soon, so go ask and read about it on Hydrogenaudio.org. That is the place to go for everything audio codec related.

[Russ]

Originally posted by SNYder
If you don't have EXTREMELY high standards for lossy codecs, then just use OGG or AAC. Both are roughly the same in quality, but I'd suggest AAC over OGG as it is becoming the the new world wide standard audio format. And this transition has already begun. Everything audio related will have built in AAC (MPEG-4 Audio) support within a year or two. Everything from cell phones to portable audio players to portable anything. Although OGG has seen a few portable devices add support, even within a year AAC support will dwarf OGG's.

AAC is patent-encumbered and requires a paid licence to encode or decode (per channel as well). 'nuff said. Although the MPEG4 thing is true, sad as it is, it won't convert me to AAC. I'd recommend ogg because it's free in every respect.

[dylman]

Originally posted by Russ
For archival purposes owning the CD is another decent idea

A very quick google search reveals:
http://foetusized.org/cdrot.html
http://www.mv.com/ipusers/richbreton/m/files/cd_rot.htm

Assuming a CD will last forever is a dangerous business...

For the record, I rip all my CDs with Ogg -q5. I'm not archiving them, so lossless quality isn't an issue (although one day it will be). It's just a damn big playlist. Changing CDs is such a pain in the arse... :D

[Russ]

I'd classify the risk of loss of my MP3s as higher than the risk of loss of my CDs :). Assuming that your hard drive/CD-R/exotic storage device will last forever is even more dangerous ;).

[SNYder]

Originally posted by Russ
AAC is patent-encumbered and requires a paid licence to encode or decode (per channel as well). 'nuff said. Although the MPEG4 thing is true, sad as it is, it won't convert me to AAC. I'd recommend ogg because it's free in every respect.

it wont cost us anything to use. there are and always will be free AAC encoding and decoding programs. And AAC support will become a standard feature in all major software audio players. But for any player, made by someone that can't afford to pay to include support for AAC, you'll be able to find 3rd party plugins that enable AAC playback, of course.

This is the new standard. And a very good one.

p.s. check out this article. Apple starts music service based on AAC.

http://www.betanews.com/article.php3?sid=1046961372

[Russ]

Originally posted by SNYder
there are and always be free AAC encoding and decoding programs.
They are and always will be illegal (http://www.vialicensing.com/products/mpeg4aac/license.terms.html).

Similarly it won't become a standard feature in Winamp because it isn't free.

[SNYder]

for the last time... 3rd party plug-ins.

And Winamp (along with AOL) probably will eventually get AAC support as a standard feature once the demand becomes big enough.

[Russ]

And exactly why should I switch from the free to encode and decode vorbis to AAC which will cost me $20 per channel to encode (so, if I wanted to encode 5.1 audio in AAC, that'll be $120 for the encoder, thank you), and is of pretty much equivalent quality. Not going to happen, especially since Vorbis portables (http://www.vorbis.com/ot/20030223.html#id2726716) are slowly but steadily increasing (www.neurosaudio.com) in number (http://www.iriver.com).

[Atmo]

I use monkeys audio for anything i create, or for the occasional cd i rip from a friend. I use ogg -q7 for all the cd's i own.

[SNYder]

Originally posted by Russ
And exactly why should I switch from the free to encode and decode vorbis to AAC which will cost me $20 per channel to encode (so, if I wanted to encode 5.1 audio in AAC, that'll be $120 for the encoder, thank you), and is of pretty much equivalent quality. Not going to happen, especially since Vorbis portables (http://www.vorbis.com/ot/20030223.html#id2726716) are slowly but steadily increasing (www.neurosaudio.com) in number (http://www.iriver.com). Don't archive in OGG in the first place and then your options for a portable player will be unimaginably larger. To suggest that someone use OGG's for archiving when they also want to get a portable player is like saying, "Here, let's limit your options drasticly."

If they just plan on keeping the songs on their computer then it doesn't really matter what format they choose as long as they find the quality to be good enough. But as some point or another most people want to take their music with them.

Also, if you personally know that the portable player you want supports OGG's, then go ahead and use OGG. But then, whatlater that year you see a new player that you'd really like to get, but it doesn't support OGG. Oh well, looks like your gonna have to transcode. I just personally feel it's better to leave your options open, but more importantly I feel we should leave the options open for people that we suggest things too.

And again, using AAC wouldn't cost YOU a cent. There will be pleanty of free encoders and decoders out there, some that legally paid for a liscence and some that didn't.

[fwgx]

ar·chive P Pronunciation Key (ärkv)
n.

A place or collection containing records, documents, or other materials of historical interest. Often used in the plural: old land deeds in the municipal archives.
Computer Science.

A long-term storage area, often on magnetic tape, for backup copies of files or for files that are no longer in active use.
So if your archiving you are not needing them to be put onto a portable device. Stick with ogg.

[Twilightseer]

If you really want a perfect copy, then a lossless codec (FLAC, Monkeysaudio, LPAC) is the way to go.
For a lossy codec, I would choose either MP3 encoded with Lame using alt-preset extreme or Ogg vorbis at q6.