free Rip in winamp5

[Andrea6187]

You want winamp5 ripping at max speed?

[squall14716]

I see no point really. WA5 won't have full speed ripping, so I'll use EAC. No big deal.

[will]

read it http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?postid=1128513#post1128513

[Wetzel]

if it bothers you THAT much, just use EAC.

nullsoft isn't going to give YOU something that costs THEM money.
live with it.

[nIRV]

you give them money or
a) you use free alternatives (cdex, fb2k, wmp, itunes)
b) you wait for somebody to write a plugin that will encode mp3s without speed limit (if the wa5 sdk allows people to write encoder plugins for vorbis and cie.)

[nybergh]

*sigh*
What kind of loosers would use Winamp as a ripper, anyway? Use CDex (http://www.cdexos.sourceforge.net/) if u want a full featured ripper. Lots o people are scared off from proper rippers when they first see EAC and moves down to WiMP, RealONE, iTunes and Musicmatch, but try CDex anyway. It's easier than EAC but it still has all the LAME and OGG-settings... And it's OpenSource!

[lunarboy1]

I don't rip CD's that often. So I settle for using the diskwriter to write wavs then go back over the wavs with the LAME mp3 encoder output plug-in. Get my own VBR shit and I'm quite happy with it. It still works in wa5.

So I'm not complaining :)

[net-cruizer]

Well I haven't bought a cd in like 10 years, so cd ripping isn't a big thing to me anyways. Besides, it takes 15 seconds to download an mp3 using K++ anyways, and I doubt any ripper program could do that faster.
But it sure would be nice if cd ripping were free in Winamp5 though, as I don't see the point in using a 3rd party app for ripping if the player a person is using to play the cd in the first place, can do it. Like if you're already listening to a cd in Winamp, why would a person want to launch a seperate program. Seems odd to me, lol.
But if you have no choice, as in Winamp not doing it without a person paying for that option, then sure, a 3rd party app would be necessary.

[eminemfan]

There is Another Alternative:
Use Winamp 2.95!!!;) ;) ;) ;)

[Lord Darius]

In a philosophical point of view, full speed ripping should be free.

Why ?
Because downloading mp3s on the internet for free is illegal, while ripping your own CDs to mp3 or anything else is legal !

So it would appear logical to 'encourage' people to rip their cds instead of downloading ;)

I know it may appear a bit demagogic to say that, but for a company like AOL, such a point of view may appear a bit logical, because as a big ISP, they don't have interest that their clients download mp3s from the net.

[GqSkrub]

if CDex is a free ripper, why can't winamp just use whatever Cdex uses to encode mp3 and use that for free as well?

[Sawg]

Just because something is free doesn't mean it is legal. The patents on MP3 is owned by FgH, in order to use them Nullsoft needs a license.

http://www.mp3licensing.com/help/developer.html#1

[net-cruizer]

Originally posted by eminemfan
There is Another Alternative:
Use Winamp 2.95!!!;) ;) ;) ;)

Yep, that would work, or even Winamp5 Alph 1, which in my opinion was perfect. Was beter than WA5 Beta 1, but Beta 2 is awsome, other than not being able to rip that is.

[DJ Egg]

Yes, but 2.92, 2.95 and 5.0 alpha are also deemed illegal,
because they were leaked and never intended for public use.

[gt24]

one of the main things about the file format OGG is that it is free to create files, you have to pay no license fees...

So.... why not allow maxiumum speed burning of only OGG files, which Winamp naturally plays? Just a question, a pondering for the masses to think about...

In reality, OGG and MP3 are pretty much the same, however one will cost you (you being either the customer or the supplier). Why can't Winamp offer free full speed OGG burning?

[Andrea6187]

Originally posted by Andrea6187
You want winamp5 ripping [b]at max speedè/b]?

I've said ripping only at max speed,not mp3 ripping

[auhsor]

Originally posted by gt24
one of the main things about the file format OGG is that it is free to create files, you have to pay no license fees...

So.... why not allow maxiumum speed burning of only OGG files, which Winamp naturally plays? Just a question, a pondering for the masses to think about...
I totally agree with that. Ripping ogg's at full speed should be allowed.

[WHEREamI]

hmm... interesting. i never realized that mp3 is patented.

It reminds me of GIF, and i see the beginings of mp3 going the same way. GIF has a patented technology in it, and therefore requires lisence fees to distribute. Then PNG came around, opensource, flexible, and overall better than GIF. Slowly, it is catching on. It is already a wide-spread format, though not the most popular (yet, i predict). I think it possible that mp3 may go the same way as GIF, to be replaced by Ogg Vorbis.

(side note- the proper term is Ogg Vorbis for the audio format. "Ogg" is just a container format, similar to avi. "Vorbis" is the actual audio compression. It would be better to abbreviate to "Vorbis" than "Ogg", since Ogg could be confused with other things contained in Ogg streams, such as FLAC, Speex, etc.)

~WHEREamI

[parapraxis]

No, I'll stick with Exact Audio Copy.

[killswitch1968]

First: This poll is silly and it's results meaningless. You might as well have a poll like: "Should everyone have everything for free?"

Originally posted by auhsor
I totally agree with that. Ripping ogg's at full speed should be allowed.

Yes, I don't understand this either. I can understand licensing issues with mp3, but not with ogg. Anyone know the hold up on this?

[sanderev66]

And why bother creating a pro version, almost everyone know that there will be cracks/patches/keygens which will unlock it.

But if it's not very expensive I even think of buying it... Not that I want to crack Winamp..

Originally posted by killswitch1968
First: This poll is silly and it's results meaningless. You might as well have a poll like: "Should everyone have everything for free?"


The answer to that question will be Yes. Because if it's free then we don't need ANY money. ;) But then you don't own it, because it has no value!

[nybergh]

Maybe AOL should sell WApro-licenses on CD-ROM in normal book/computer stores. I know lots of people who would like yo purchase WApro, but don't own a VISA-card.

[will]

Originally posted by killswitch1968
Yes, I don't understand this either. I can understand licensing issues with mp3, but not with ogg. Anyone know the hold up on this? The AOL legal dept arn't happy about ogg vorbis encoding, thus they forced winamp to pull support for it (if you look hard enough, you'll be able to find the enc_vorbis.dll required for vorbis ripping)

[LIDER]

Can anybody tell me and others WHY AOL LEGAL DEPT ARN'T HAPPY ABOUT OGG VORBIS ENCODING??? Because, to be honest, I still cannot understand why Vorbis support has been removed? What is wrong with Ogg? Maybe if it hadn't been free it wouldn't have been removed??? - maybe my last sentence sounds silly but it seems to be 100% true! Winamp looks like free software where can be implemented only commercial and not free stuffs.

[WHEREamI]

i've never heard of any legal issues surrounding Ogg Vorbis.... perhaps it's due to its being open source? and that's controversial? (is it?)

I'll never use WA for ripping, but seems silly not to support a free format, while supporting a patented format.

~WHEREamI

[saivert]

Well, well Boys and Girls! This was a long and cumbersome thread.
I almost fell asleep. Yawn...

AOL doesn't like Ogg Vorbis cos' it's free. AOL wanna make money. They can't make money on Vorbis, so they kick it out. Simple, huh!?

There are many years since Winamp was Shareware,
and now we have the possibility to pay for it again. Whoaw!!
I think it would be nice to pay some bucks to Nullsoft.
But how much money does Nullsoft get from it? Wouldn't AOL
eat up most of it anyway...
If I possesed a VISA/MASTER-card I would have payed for it.


For ripping I use NERO Burning Rom MPEG-4 (AAC) encoder and ripper.
That sounds great (though not free).

Winamp5 rulez anyway... :-)

[DJ Egg]

Originally posted by saivert
AOL doesn't like Ogg Vorbis cos' it's free. AOL wanna make money. They can't make money on Vorbis, so they kick it out. Simple, huh!?Nope. Wrong!

Read again
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?postid=1128513#post1128513
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=154054

[saivert]

Originally posted by DJ Egg:
"Ogg Vorbis may be free, but you still need a license from xiph to use ogg encoding in applications. Apparently, some complications arose regarding this matter."

It works fine as long as Winamp uses the LGPL license. But that's not going to happen does it???
xiph uses the GNU Public License (GPL) which states that any software
using Ogg Vorbis should make the source code to Ogg Vorbis freely available and that no attempt is made to limit the user in this way.
Thanks!

[DJ Egg]

Yup. In one!
...kind of

[RonnyJ]

Even if .OGG has legal problems, and .MP3 requires a license, why is the .WAV ripping still speed-limited? The only reason that I can think of, is to encourage people to buy the Pro version which has the MP3 encoding, but I thought this went mainly towards the MP3 license. I also read somewhere on here, from a mod I think, that Nullsoft would prefer not to have to charge a fee if they could.

It doesn't bother me much, I'm just interested in why they want to cripple the WAV ripping speed slightly unless you register.

[will]

winamp licences the ripping technology from someone, they set the precedent on how fast you can rip for free.

[DJ Egg]

You can use DiskWriter Output to rip to WAV, at top speed and for free. ;)

[Moguta]

Originally posted by DJ Egg
You can use DiskWriter Output to rip to WAV, at top speed and for free. ;)
Or you can just use the lovely freeware ripper Exact Audio Copy (http://www.exactaudiocopy.de).

Rip with read error checking & notification in Secure Mode, or quickly with Burst Mode. And it has tagging support, the ability to encode to any format you have a binary for (LAME MP3, Ogg Vorbis, Musepack MPC, etc).

Frankly, I could care less about ripping support in a media PLAYER. It's inevitably going to be toned-down from a dedicated standalone program.

EDIT: Oops, HTML no work here.

[QuietBritishJim]

Originally posted by sanderev66
And why bother creating a pro version, almost everyone know that there will be cracks/patches/keygens which will unlock it.
LOL hasn't it occured to anyone? I hate to sound like a cynic (actually I love it but I always say that anyway ;)) but maybe that's exactly what AOL is expecting... "we'll just put in a little reg thing, so that everyone will get the keygen and get all the features, but it'll be enough to keep those damn licensors from Fraunhofer off our backs".

No I'm not condoning warez <insert disclamer about this being a joke>

[Carnicero]

I don't think Pro's potential features are limited just to CD ripping. From what I understood, registering will give access to future services not announced or implemented yet. Things like DVD codecs, which currently are only available in paid software. You don't buy PowerDVD or WinDVD for a fancy software DVD player, you're paying a liscense fee to use an MPAA approved DVD decoder.

Even Windows Media Player won't work with DVDs unless you buy an Intervideo, Cyberlink, etc. decoder.

Honestly, a DVD video decoder is the only thing I'd pay for Winamp Pro to get. As was said countless times already, you can use Exact Audio Copy, CDex, Freerip MP3, LAME with the RazorLAME frontend, etc., never having to bother with Winamp. But what you can't do is view a DVD movie in Winamp because of the DMCA and MPAA deciding what we can legally do with the products we've paid for.

[QuietBritishJim]

Originally posted by Carnicero
Honestly, a DVD video decoder is the only thing I'd pay for Winamp Pro to get. As was said countless times already, you can use Exact Audio Copy, CDex, Freerip MP3, LAME with the RazorLAME frontend, etc., never having to bother with Winamp. But what you can't do is view a DVD movie in Winamp because of the DMCA and MPAA deciding what we can legally do with the products we've paid for. Correct me if I'm wrong, since I don't use Winamp for video, but since Winamp uses directshow for video, surely if you get the Fraunhofer directshow filters from doom9 (www.doom9.org) then you can play DVDs in winamp already?

[WHEREamI]

well, i'd like to go back to the legal issues of using Ogg Vorbis.

Namely, i'd like to point out that there are NONE WHATSOEVER.
From Xiph.org (http://www.xiph.org/ogg/vorbis/) website
Xiph.org's Vorbis software libraries (libvorbis and vorbisfile) are distributed under a BSD-like license; these libraries may be used by any application, Open or proprietary, linked or incorporated in whole, so long as acknowledgement is made to Xiph.org Foundation when using our codec source in whole or in derived works. See the file 'COPYING' in the source for all the details.

All other portions of xiph.org's reference Vorbis software are distributed under the (GNU) Library General Public License (LGPL).

Because the specification is open, third parties are welcome (and encouraged) to implement third party Vorbis software under other licenses using xiph.org's reference source as an authoritative reference.
Note that BSD-style lisences have no restriction on derived works becoming proprietary.

That puts holes in ashibaka's analysis (http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?postid=1145687#post1145687) in the forum linked by DJ Egg earlier.

Still possible that Nullsoft is being paid to use AAC instead (as ashibaka guesses), but this makes little sense to me. someone else could easily write an enc_vorbis.dll for the ripper, and something tells me Nullsoft would gladly make it "featured plugin of all eternity, or at least a long time" :p

I would like a real explaination.

~WHEREamI

[WHEREamI]

Furthermore....

Originally posted by saivert
Originally posted by DJ Egg:
"Ogg Vorbis may be free, but you still need a license from xiph to use ogg encoding in applications. Apparently, some complications arose regarding this matter."

It works fine as long as Winamp uses the LGPL license. But that's not going to happen does it???
xiph uses the GNU Public License (GPL) which states that any software
using Ogg Vorbis should make the source code to Ogg Vorbis freely available and that no attempt is made to limit the user in this way.
Thanks!
Simply not true. as i said above, the Vorbis libs are BSD-Style, and reference software is Lesser GPL. No need for Winamp to use GPL.

So, all this, and we're no closer to figuring out why enc_vorbis.dll was pulled.

~WHEREamI

[Sawg]

The last I heard it is being held up by the AOL Legal dept.

(The top part I know, the rest of this is to the best of my knowlage in an attempt to explain why)

The Vorbis decoder was held back for the same reasons. Just because Xiph says the encoder is patent free, doesn't mean it is actually so. If Nullsoft was to include the Vorbis encoder and at a later date it is proved part of the Vorbis standard is covered under a pre-existing patent AOL could be caught in trouble. To my knowledge Xiph has no legal proof that the encoder is patent free and therefore AOL has no real protection if it is not. In order to then have it included the AOL Legal department must go over it and verify it is patent free and they face no risk of future litigation.

The EXACT same thing was true for in_vorbis. It was out there for a LONG time before AOL gave the okay to include it in the Winamp Installer as an official plug.


AAC is licensed by AOL from Dolby. Dolby owns the patents and the legal responsibility that comes with the licensing. If at a later date it is shown the Dolby is violating some patent with their AAC implementation it is Dolby's ass on the fire, not AOL.


Once again, Open Source doesn't mean Patent Free.

[DJ Egg]

@WHEREamI
Yeah, whether GPL, LGPL or BSD, it's all open source... but different. ;)
http://www.opensource.org/licenses/bsd-license.php
http://www.vorbis.com/faq.psp#flic
http://www.xiph.org/licenses/bsd/
[ummm . . . not sure what my point is here, or if there even is one, lol] :igor: :D


Aah . . . the patent issue . . . nice one Sawg . . . cheers !!!!

Phew, at last! w00t!

Now peeps, in the meantime...
either use the vorbis encoder (http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?postid=1129032#post1129032) we've provided,
and be grateful, or stfu ;) :p

[WHEREamI]

Than you Sawg, now that's an explaination i can buy.

One thing i'd like to clarify though: Are these patents you're talking about one's that are owned by people other than the Xiph project? honestly, i find it unlikely that there is anything in the Vorbis format that is patented outside the project, and if Xiph patented it themselves, they would allow use without restriction/royalties. Do you know of any potential parts that could be patented outside the Xiph project??

@DJ Egg: I'm very familiar with the open source lisences, but they are different. BSD-Style lisences are much weaker than the GPL, and even the LGPL. All open source, yes; all equal, no.
Interestingly, the Halloween document (http://www.opensource.org/halloweeen/) (a MS internal document) goes into it much better than i can.

~WHEREamI

[Sawg]

Vorbis is supposed to be patent free and that's what Xiph says. Xiph owns no patents on it either. But there has been a fuck load of research and patents over the last (let's say) thirty years on digital audio compression. There are a lot of patents out there on the topics. In developing Vorbis Xiph would have had to avoid them all. But as far as I know there is no legal proof that they have.

If you read Tech news a lot you see a lot of patent cases recently. Some lawyer holding a decade old patent on something obscure all of the sudden sues some company because of patent infringement in something they have been using for years.

The Tech Industry is ran by lawyers these days instead of developers, as unfortunate as that is.

[WHEREamI]

Originally posted by Sawg
The Tech Industry is ran by lawyers these days instead of developers, as unfortunate as that is.
hear, hear!! :up: it's a damn shame.

Tech patents are annoying, especially when it comes to encoding technologies. That is why i am so in to the ideals of the open-source community. I've always viewed OS as a fairly hassle-free way of doing things and not getting the credit stolen from you... but then this damn patent stuff comes up. and who's to say they didn't come up with it themselves anyway?

Though i guess that's the idea of a patent: to give credit and incentives to be the first to come up with something. That's also why patents expire though, so that others can use it. Really though, i think that patents are a rather archaic piece of the law, and should be gotten rid of entirely. Though probably necessary during early industrial development in the US (1800s to 1920/40s-ish?), I think that Industry is now well established, and no longer needs the protection and incentives of patent rights.

well, i think that's enough ranting on the topic, but i think we've gotten to the bottom of the Ogg Vorbis issue. Only time, and the AO-helL legal dept, will tell if Ogg ever comes back to Winamp. My guess: probably, eventually. But someone not worried about patent infringement will write a plugin for it by then.

Once again, thanks, Sawg, for clearing this up.

~WHEREamI

[EfaustuS9]

Full speed ripping and burning is free in winamp 5 beta 2 all that you must do is consult the deus ex machina that is google. Possible moral conflictions that arise though, google will not likely remedy.

questions referring to a legally obtained ripping software ;)
what is joint stereo encoding?
does multi channel encoding allow one to rip a multiple channel audio track (ie: DVD audio), or does it simulate multiple channels from a traditional cd track?

[DJ Egg]

Thanks to the previous post, this thread now goes bye bye :down:


=The End=