Real "thinking" movies

[Fickle]

There are a shitload of movies out in this strange and fascinating world that try to make you think. But, as my experience has shown so far, most just fuck you over and become gigantic cliches that could have been explained in about six pages of tight-written text.
Take the Matrix. What a fucking letdown. Yeah, good movies, but as far as the philosophy went, they should have just left the first one alone. When they tried to continue it, it turned into the Bible, and that's just fucking annoying. And I like the Bible. But think about it: They spent millions of dollars, revolutionized the use of cameras and computer imagery, to rewrite an ancient story that most people already fucking know.

Another problem with "thinking" movies is that they try to confuse you to hide the fact that they're just rewriting a book that was written by a dead Roman a couple thousand years ago. Look at Minority Report. What the fuck was that? I was told how it kept me guessing,how it really changes my outlook on the future. What? Obviously, if you were surprised by advanced technology involving crimes and such, you never read any Asimov, or Christ, even Bradbury delved into the subject.

But wait, there's more.

There are a few "thinking movies" that are quite good (surprisingly in some cases). Many of them are old, but most of them don't involve special effects as a plot line, feature huge actors of the time, or even try to create a whole new world. Somehow instead of trying to dictate how we see life, these films give you a different angle from which to look. These films can put strange spins on old thoughts with dialogue, or just completely skewer your current ideas by shining the light from a different place (something we all need at some point in time).

So, I want to create a list of Real "thinking Movies." Ones that don't so much "Change the way you thought about " But instead just give you a good story that surprises as well as entertains.

A few good examples:
American Beauty
The Manchurian Candidate (sadly, they're remaking this one. I'm willing to bet it'll do decent at the box office but will suck terribly compared to the original)
Fight Club
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
Pi
Memento
A Clockwork Orange
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
12 Angry Men
Pulp Fiction

There are more out there. Make some suggestions, as I'm eager to expand my strange fascination (and hate) of the people who think movies like Titanic or AI: Artificial Intelligence or even The Matrix Series to be life changing or well-thought out, or even thought provoking.


To all those who think I'm wrong about the Matrix: Watch it again. And every time someone says [i]Neo say Christ aloud. And then read the bible. Either way, it's repetitious.

So, in conclusion, "little help?"

[K-Can]

I totally agree, but i still enjoy no brainers...100%!!!!

Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas-That is THE best fucking movie, bloudy funny but twists to shit closer to the end...love it!

12 angry men, ya a thinker bit dry for my liking.

American Histroy X, not so much a twister..made me think tho (more about life than how the movie would end), that goes for "what dreams may come-robin williams" as well.

12 monkeys-bruce willis...EWWW! (been a while since i saw it so its a lil grey) i thought was a decent flick.

training day was aright, kinda twisted in a somewhat predictable way. Same as Insomnia.



not thinker's but i did really enjoy 28 Days.

The cell, most hate and i cant blame em..too much crappy acting and lotsa special effects. But hey who needs drugs when you got the cell...



lets face it most yank movies are made for morons. They spell EVERYTHING out. Who the fuck stupidifies a movie on purpose...? Love UK movies but just cant get many :(

[Cylob]

:up:
12 Angry Men

One of my all-time favourtie films. I just love it.:)

[Fickle]

the real one or the remake. I refuse to see remakes now. You'd think they'd just base more movies on good books, but no, they'd rather rip off movies. It's like me rewriting a Stephen King book.

[marvinbarcelona]

This is not a list of the best, but of the more thought provoking films you might want to watch. I've seen and thoroughly enjoyed them all. Some are very challenging films, but well worth it.

I can highly recommend;

Rififi,
Les Diaboliques
Russian Ark
The Seven Samurai........bollocks! watch them all, they are all great films.

Solyaris (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0069293/)
Russian Ark (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0318034/)
Les Diaboliques (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0046911/)
The Big Sleep (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0038355/)
Rabbot Proof Fence (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0252444/)
Once Were Warriors (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0110729/)
Rififi (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0048021/)
The 400 Blows (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0053198/)
The Seven Samurai (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0047478/)
Elephant (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0363589/)
Dogville (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0276919/)

[K-Can]

LOL i have heard of Solaris and Dogville...took a look in the vid store and got some weird looks (i live in a small community so not much gets pulle dthrough here). they sold outside of UK?

[MidnightViper88]

Originally posted by Cylob
:up:
12 Angry Men

One of my all-time favourtie films. I just love it.:)

The color remake or the original B&W?

After reading the play script on "12 Angry Men" in my English class, we're now watching the original, and it's got me interested... :)

[K-Can]

Ok just watched "Rabit Proof Fence" (watching Clockwork Orange tomarow). I will say that it is a decent movie, not really a thinker i thought. It is a good thing for someone who doesnt know Ausie's history with the native people, but i found it kind of weak as to what has happened to their culture (Far far worse that what happened here in North America). Even so a good movie.

[Spazz333]

Hmm.. Stigmata and Enemy of the State were good. But I got a tie for the ones that fucked with my mind the most. Fallen and The Devil's Advocate.

A bit off topic but I link books and movies pretty close. Angel's and Demons by Dan Brown did a good job about making me think. Then again just the fact they worked Illuminati : New World Order by Steve Jackson Games into it gave it extra points.

[marvinbarcelona]

Originally posted by K-Can
LOL i have heard of Solaris and Dogville...took a look in the vid store and got some weird looks (i live in a small community so not much gets pulle dthrough here). they sold outside of UK?

All of these films are available from you friendly on-line retailer. When you say "Solaris", we ain't talking the remake with Clooney here. We're talking "Solyaris", the original by Tarkovsky. Sooooo much better.

[K-Can]

"When you say "Solaris", we ain't talking the remake with Clooney here. We're talking "Solyaris", the original by Tarkovsky. Sooooo much better."

OOO.. will be looking them up and whiping out the credit card tonight :D

[OutlawJim]

i didnt get the one with Clooney (i've never seen the original) can someone explain it at all? it was weird :p

[marvinbarcelona]

Like all complex stories, its actually fairly simple, you just have to look through it. Whatever is attacking, its never explained what is attacking, is using the thoughts, dreams, and memories of the crew to communicate with them. However, as most of the strong memories of the crew seem to be of dead loved ones, it eventually drives them mad. In space is the place they can communicate with the dead.

Are the "aliens" attacking, trying to communicate or trying to understand us? This is left to the individual viewer.

The original is 3 hours long and much, much better. Interestingly, Tarkovsky always said he hated Solyaris, but it became his best known work.

[Raz]

28:06:42:12

[Cylob]

Originally posted by MidnightViper88
The color remake or the original B&W?The original B&W. I'm a 50's & 60's film buff.:p

[marvinbarcelona]

I'm more of a 40's and 50's fan myself. Can't beat Bogey!

[Cylob]

Casablanca's okay..... I usually watch it when it's on. The African Queen is awsome.:)

Have you seen the 1936 film 'Things to Come'?

It predicted WWII very well.

[marvinbarcelona]

...and you move on to one of sub-genres of my favourite films; sci-fi & horror.

Things to Come is a great film, but, I do prefer Metropolis in this sub genre.

[Cylob]

It's a shame WWII happened - the 40's were virtually devoid of sci-fi films.

But the 50's more than made up for it.:)

Don't get me started on classic sci-fi.

[Mrs_Mia_Wallace]

Most of those Fickle mentioned right in the beginning, I have seen all of them except The Manchurian Candidate and 12 angry men (I put them on my list of movies to see though) and they are all high up there on my favorite movies list :up: , I just cannot stand movies explaining every little detail, it's much more fascinating to find out things for yourself...but there are apparently not many people who think that way since there are so many bad movies where each decision of the protagonist is talked over and over again...

I'd like to add American History X and Trainspotting, not because of the complex plot but because they really make you think about your life and others...

By the way, out of marvinbarcelona's list I only have seen 2 movies - dogville and elephant (the latter I didn't find much thought-rpovoking but I ranted about that movie in a nother thread already so I leave it at that, dogville was exceptionally good in my opinion)

I haven't seen solaris/solarys but I have read the original book by stanislaw Lem (I think it was him) and I heard the movie just messed up the book so I didn't go and see it, maybe I should and compare it to the book...

Mia:)

[Raz]

Originally posted by Mrs_Mia_Wallace
I'd like to add American History X and Trainspotting, not because of the complex plot but because they really make you think about your life and others...
Exellent choices. Good stuff. :up:

[zootm]

i find "natural born killers" quite a "thinky" film, actually. there's a lot more going on than you realise at first.

as for "fear and loathing" - yes. read the book, too... it's excellent.

[Cylob]

Robinson Crusoe on Mars....

A real thinker.:)

[K-Can]

ok this thread is literally breaking the bank. First i rent then i gotta buy...

Couple more i think were quite good.

What Dreams May Come
Instinct*
Backdraft
Boys Don't Cry-Dont remember ever thinking...but good flick.
Medicine Man

[marvinbarcelona]

*BUZ* Okay, I'm going to have to call in a judge here....What Dreams May Come? Backdraft? Medicine Man? Thinking films?

[Fickle]

Originally posted by K-Can
ok this thread is literally breaking the bank. First i rent then i gotta buy...

Couple more i think were quite good.

What Dreams May Come
Instinct*
Backdraft
Boys Don't Cry-Dont remember ever thinking...but good flick.
Medicine Man

I disagree. I've never seen backdraft, but other than Backdraft, I hated the others. Backdraft was not a thinker.

[Abarabusto]

Try "Donnie Darko". Great flick. Will make you think but I don't know about what, and you won't come to any conclusions when you are done. But that's what makes it great.

[>anny<]

I can mention some movies I really like:
Pulp Fiction
Fight Club
One Flew Over Cuckoo's Nest
A Beautiful Mind
Magnolia
What Dreams May Come

and some others. Do you like European cinema? Personally, I admire Amelie and La Fille Sur Le Pont (The Girl On The Bridge).

[hgnis]

My Concubine.
Temptress Moon.
The Last Emperor.
Ghandi.
JFK.
The Day The Earth Stood Still.
Big Fish :D
(Other stuff I cannot recall at this moment...)

[Seikan]

Fight Club is awesome. In fact one of my college professors regularly sited Fight Club during our lectures.

Another movie, maybe not a "thinker" but more of a "mover" if Life Is Beautiful.

Also, though not many people liked it, I liked Masked And Anonymous.

[mark]

6th sense

[Raz]

You sicken me.

[Doktor]

My sig says enough!
Plus:

Life is beautiful
Kolya
Fight club
Run Lola Run / Lola rennt - a german one
Memento
Space Odyssey 2001

[meerak]

Matrix series makes you think

[Raz]

Except for the fact that it's a tired plagiarised concept shoved into piss poor cheesy digital style films with fight scenes that look like they're from one of those parodies of old kung fu movies. :)

[yxs]

Mulholland Drive

[Bilbo Baggins]

Originally posted by Raz
Except for the fact that it's a tired plagiarised concept shoved into piss poor cheesy digital style films with fight scenes that look like they're from one of those parodies of old kung fu movies. :)

*yawn*

[White Raven]

I saw 'Rabbit-Proof Fence' last year in my Humanities Class. I thought it was quite a good movie.

I can't really say that a lot of movies that I've seen made me think a whole lot about them. Usually I just observe and understand and develop a further understanding as the movie goes on. Donnie Darko was a pretty neat film, though it didn't make me "think."

I'll have to rent the Manchurian Candidate, it sounds good.

I don't like remakes as a general rule, too.

[Fickle]

Originally posted by Raz
Except for the fact that it's a tired plagiarised concept shoved into piss poor cheesy digital style films with fight scenes that look like they're from one of those parodies of old kung fu movies. :)

Thanks for shutting him down, simply because Rewatching the last matrix movie is what set me off on actual thinking movies to begin with. Do people ever read the post that designates the thread? Or do they just go by the title and post? gah. People.

[godoncrack]

not an ACTUAL movie
How to operate your brain
was a nice brain fuck
and lets not forget about kill bill, although it was the music that made it

Monster
American History X
Requiem for a Dream
others shall be named later

[hgnis]

Citizen Kane wasn't too bad.

[yxs]

Also two other movies... Life Is Beautiful (La Vita E Bella) and Dancer In The Dark.
They're not that kind of real "brain torturing" movies in that sense. But they make you think for a long time.
About life and death. Ethics... the limits of tolerance... about a human being.

Damn, I just love intense "psychological experiences"!

[Myxomatosis]

I also enjoy thinker movies here a good list:
Fight Club
Pi
The Big Labowski (it alittle of thinking and no-brainer)
Snatch
K-Pax
Matchstick Men (kind of)

Also, Fight Club is so good becuase of the many perspectives and ideals it portrays. "Let go" and dont remember the exact quote but your never really asleep or awake with insomnia.

[gaekwad2]

Actually Matrix made me think: because it's so full of obvious mistakes I immediately thought about how the story could have been saved.

One film that stunned me (and my friends, we were literally speechless after leaving the cinema) the first time I saw it is Brazil.

[old and quite mad]

"Z" by Costa-Gavras.

[AfroMex]

I love thinker movies but everyone has forgotn SEVEN. that movie is near the top of my all time greats list.

and a few more.
Fight Club
Memento
Pulp Fiction
Reservoir Dogs <-- kinda a thinker but cool nun the less

i can't think of anymore at the moment, but thats just a few.


P.S. PootieTang is the shit and you will never change my mind.

[Semantics]

Vanilla Sky....how could we forget that?

As for the Matrix Trilogy...excellent films, hated by the masses. Why you ask...mainly because they are thinking pieces. Are there biblical references in the films? Yes, but if anything, these films are more based in New Age and Eastern ideologies, the farthest thing from the Bible. To think the Matrix Trilogy is biblical in any siginicant sense is absurd. Watch it again...and think

[ElChevelle]

Dogma

[Fickle]

Originally posted by Semantics
Vanilla Sky....how could we forget that?

As for the Matrix Trilogy...excellent films, hated by the masses. Why you ask...mainly because they are thinking pieces. Are there biblical references in the films? Yes, but if anything, these films are more based in New Age and Eastern ideologies, the farthest thing from the Bible. To think the Matrix Trilogy is biblical in any siginicant sense is absurd. Watch it again...and think

Yeah, watch it again, and then remind yourself how Neo dies in a crucifix position, is the only hope for mankind, and sacrificed himself. Just because they borrowed a plot line from a japanese movie or book doesn't mean it's Eastern. You want an American Eastern Film? Watch Ghost Dog. That had more Eastern Flavor than all the Matrix's put together and blended to a fine paste.

Eastern cultures my ass. Kill Bill had more Eastern Culture than fucking Neo/Jesus vs The Machines/Evil of Mankind. The first one was good. The last one was cool. The middle one sucked. Don't even try to argue that it was intelligently concieved or the greatest film ever. It was the most predictable crap I ever witnessed plotwise.

[Semantics]

I do see your point Fickle...but also take into consideration other points of the film. The first film brings up ideas non-existence (there is no spoon). That can be considered Eastern. A main premise in the film is choice...or lack of. Neo's choice has already been made, but made by himself. This is extreme fatalism, a very New Age concept of choosing what you will do with your life before you actually begin living it. I've never seen either of these concepts in Christianity. However, this is just my interpretation of the film...just what I got outta it. I guess its kinda dumb for me to say its heavily Eastern or Christian, or whatever. Its simply a mix of a ton of shit, Christian and Eastern...or whatever else is thrown in there.

[ElChevelle]

Debbie Does Every Fucking Thing

[gaekwad2]

Originally posted by Semantics
Vanilla Sky....how could we forget that?
That's easy: Just watch abre los ojos/open your eyes.

[Fickle]

Originally posted by Semantics
This is extreme fatalism, a very New Age concept of choosing what you will do with your life before you actually begin living it.

Jesus's life was decided for him before he was killed.

[squakMix]

Originally posted by Fickle

A few good examples:
American Beauty
The Manchurian Candidate (sadly, they're remaking this one. I'm willing to bet it'll do decent at the box office but will suck terribly compared to the original)
Fight Club
Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas
Pi
Memento
A Clockwork Orange
One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest
12 Angry Men
Pulp Fiction




You listed four of my top 5 favorite movies.
American beauty,
Fight club,
Pi,
and momento (not neccesarily in order).
I also really liked the twelve monkeys

[Raz]

Originally posted by Semantics
I do see your point Fickle...but also take into consideration other points of the film. The first film brings up ideas non-existence (there is no spoon). That can be considered Eastern. A main premise in the film is choice...or lack of. Neo's choice has already been made, but made by himself. This is extreme fatalism, a very New Age concept of choosing what you will do with your life before you actually begin living it. I've never seen either of these concepts in Christianity. However, this is just my interpretation of the film...just what I got outta it. I guess its kinda dumb for me to say its heavily Eastern or Christian, or whatever. Its simply a mix of a ton of shit, Christian and Eastern...or whatever else is thrown in there. It didn't 'bring up' anything. That idea has been around for thousands of years.

[Semantics]

Jesus' life was decided FOR him. What I said was what YOU decide what you want with your life. You make your path. And playing word semantics with "bring up".....pfft. I didn't mean it created anything new, thats obvious. I suppose we replace "bring up" with "discussed", so its clear The Matrix didn't do anything new, it just threw some different stuff together and presented it

[mark]

I like to think of the matrix as an very good action movie brought down slightly by people talking in big words that they dont understand.

[squakMix]

can anyone guess where my CT is from?

[ElChevelle]

A moderator?

[Raz]

Originally posted by Semantics
Jesus' life was decided FOR him. What I said was what YOU decide what you want with your life. You make your path. And playing word semantics with "bring up".....pfft. I didn't mean it created anything new, thats obvious. I suppose we replace "bring up" with "discussed", so its clear The Matrix didn't do anything new, it just threw some different stuff together and presented it I'm not saying it's a bad movie, i'm saying it tries to be better than it is, and many many people buy into it.

[squakMix]

Originally posted by ElChevelle
A moderator?

:rolleyes:

[ElChevelle]

Originally posted by squakMix
:rolleyes:
:rolleyes:

Wrong?

[deeder7001]

Originally posted by squakMix
can anyone guess where my CT is from?

i'm thinking Half Life.

[ElChevelle]

Fight Club

[squakMix]

Originally posted by ElChevelle
Fight Club

Bingo :up:

[Fickle]

Originally posted by Raz
I'm not saying it's a bad movie, i'm saying it tries to be better than it is, and many many people buy into it.

I agree with this sentance, even with the needless second comma.

[Jaak]

if its not here, i got to add "The Butterfly Effect".
it wasn't the best movie (could have had better actors), but it was great imo.

[riqwah]

I'd like to add American History X and Trainspotting, not because of the complex plot but because they really make you think about your life and others...

i totaly agree.

[Omega X]

How to spot Thinker Movies:

1. Almost anything with Denzel Washington in it.
2. Look for Samuel L. Jackson in controversial roles.
3. Erie mystery flicks that deal with the undead.(rememeber that I did NOT say horror flick)
4. Nonfunny Travolta flicks.
5. Westley Snipes not playing a super hero.
6. Unknown actors in a downspiral setting.(not necessarily action based)
7. Halle Berry with a good script.
8. The Bone Collector was a good one.
9. Unbreakable was another one.
10. Usually Bruce Willis when he's not kicking someone's ass or trying to be funny.

[MaximusTheGreat]

I dont if I agreed with a single one of those conditions. I did not neccesarily disagree with them, but those are some strange conditions for a thinking movie.

[j.douglas]

I somewhat agree and i think a good example here is Pulp Fiction!!!

[url removed - Sarge]

[rockouthippie]

Children of Men
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206634/
1984
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087803/
Gattaca
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119177/
The Manchurian Candidate (not the remake)
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056218/
Touch of Evil
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0052311/
The Silence of the Lambs
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102926/
Wait Until Dark
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0062467/
The French Connection
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0067116/
Signs
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0286106/

[Razzinno]

I wouldn't mind getting 'Wait Until Dark' on dvd.

[Widdykats]

Originally posted by marvinbarcelona
This is not a list of the best, but of the more thought provoking films you might want to watch. I've seen and thoroughly enjoyed them all. Some are very challenging films, but well worth it.

I can highly recommend;

Rififi,
Les Diaboliques
Russian Ark
The Seven Samurai........bollocks! watch them all, they are all great films.

Solyaris (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0069293/)
Russian Ark (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0318034/)
Les Diaboliques (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0046911/)
The Big Sleep (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0038355/)
Rabbot Proof Fence (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0252444/)
Once Were Warriors (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0110729/)
Rififi (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0048021/)
The 400 Blows (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0053198/)
The Seven Samurai (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0047478/)
Elephant (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0363589/)
Dogville (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0276919/)
Great list. I liked Z also and Monster( a great performance )
I would add Rahomon (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042876/)
Requiem For A Dream (http://www.requiemforadream.com/) But there's more...there's always more

[Widdykats]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by marvinbarcelona
[B]This is not a list of the best, but of the more thought provoking films you might want to watch. I've seen and thoroughly enjoyed them all. Some are very challenging films, but well worth it.

I can highly recommend;

Rififi,
Les Diaboliques
Russian Ark
The Seven Samurai........bollocks! watch them all, they are all great films.

Solyaris (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0069293/)
Russian Ark (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0318034/)
Les Diaboliques (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0046911/)
The Big Sleep (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0038355/)
Rabbot Proof Fence (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0252444/)
Once Were Warriors (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0110729/)
Rififi (http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0048021/)
[url=http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0053198/]The 400 Blows

[Widdykats]

^ Can a Mod remove the post above my head..yeah the second one..and this, too.. Thank Mew!:D

I don't even know whatthehell that is... :confused:

[jaykal2]

"Frailty" with Matthew McConaughy is a must-see and is excellent along with any Guy Ritchie movies such as:
Lock, Stock, and two Smoking Barrels,
Snatch,
Revolver is okay but tries too hard,
and Rock n Rolla is also decent,

Obviously any Quinton Tarantino, not just Pulp Fiction, including:
Reservoir Dogs,
True Romance,
Jackie Brown,
the Kill Bill's are okay,
and Inglorious Bastards should be amazing

A recent good one I've seen is "Lions for Lambs" which is Tom Cruise's best film
an really makes you think (I highly recommend)

And finally two great Tim Robbins' films that really make you think are "The Shawshank Redemption" and a less popular film with Jeff Bridges of "The Big Lebowski" called Arlington Road is a spectacular movie that really puzzles the mind

[zarine]

From the movies that you have mentioned, American Beauty is very good.