The Presidential Debate 2004

[Starbucks]

For those of you who watched the presidential debate, how do you think Kerry and Bush handled the debate? Do you think Kerry responded to Bush better than Bush responded to kerry? It still going on right now, but you can respond after it's done.

[MStar]

Kerry seems to be doing better, Bush is stumbling in replies and he seems to have trouble finding words. I laughed when he paused to think of the word 'Saddam'.

[GarbagePoe]

As someone on Fark put it:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v255/lunarworks/catfight.jpg

But honestly, they both looked very nervous.

[Myxomatosis]

Both seem quite shaky in the hands.

[Psythik]

hey don't give it all away, It's still on over here!


Ok, it's over now, you may speak.

[squakMix]

Bush didnt seem to know what he was talking about at all.

The president had like four points that he kept bringing up over and over when he got in a corner.

Bush:"He's a flipflopper!"
Kerry: "Like I said, I said that suddam was a threat, but I never supported handling it the way you did."
Bush: "He he- the man is a flip flopper! He keeps changing his position!"

[mikeflca]

Bush, in response to Kerry saying the war in Iraq has diverted us from the war against terror/to find Osama:

"Of course we are after Saddam Hussein--I mean, Osama bin laden" (I'm guessing that's what Mstar meant?)

that cracked me up immensly.

After Bush called Kerry a flip-lopper etc on Iraq, Kerry said he has always had them same position: that Saddam was a threat but we went about it the wrong way. So after Kerry says this, Bush simply says that the only thing consistent about Kerry is that he is inconsistent in his positions, without actually backing this up with anything. That was another Kerry victory, I think. (edit: squakmix got to it first)

Another funny thing: the way Bush often seemed to go "Uhhh......." for 5-7 seconds before responding.

[griffinn]

What happened to Bush? He scored much better with Al Gore 4 years ago.

[squakMix]

I heard Kerry was a debate king guy at the college he attended (some Ivy league school... forgot which one)

[MegaRock]

According to the poll on the news 52 % of the undecided voters have a much more favorable rating of Kerry. In the head on head on the debate 44 % think Kerry won it, 20 % Bush and the rest undecided.

Personally I think Bush got thumped. He seemed to be caught without answers alot of the time and it seemed in most of the cases where he did he just kept repeating the same line about "we need a commander in chief that can win the war in Iraq". I think the polls over the next few days are going to take a noticable swing.

It seemed to be like Kerry actually had something to say and Bush, well Bush was using the same rhetoric he used in 2000 and seemed to be completely unprepared, unnerved and without the answers I would have needed to change my mind and consider voting for him.

One last piece of irony. Tonight the Bush campaign in our area was watching the debate at their headquarters - which is located in the most affluent area of St. Louis. Kerry's people were at their location in the City, where the 'average' people live. Ironic. Next week they come to St. Louis for round 2. This should get interesting.

[Myxomatosis]

Originally posted by squakMix
I heard Kerry was a debate king guy at the college he attended (some Ivy league school... forgot which one)

Yale.

"They've got nuclear weapons. We know were they're locate. In the south, west, north, and east.":)

[S-uper_T-oast]

Personally, John Kerry surprised me. Kerry was confident and straightforward. He only said a few stupid things here and there, but they only seemed to happen at points when he just got good points going. Bush's main points were Kerry's flip-flops and that he was committed to finishing things no matter what. Another main thing Bush was doing was making a threatening presence by constantly pounding on his podium, by taking threatening poses while he was speaking and by acting with discontent and malice to most of the things Kerry said.

Kerry's main points were the plan's he had to do things better then Bush. He also focused on forming alliances with other nations. His final main point was how Bush messed up with the war on terror and how he won't admit it. One of Kerry's problems was that he drifted away from concrete concepts. He started out by mentioning many tangible statistics, i.e. the 10000/12000 hummers in Iraq without proper armor, he then moved from that to more abstract concepts by the end, mainly alliances and resolutions.

In the end, both Kerry and bush debated well. Kerry seemed to be very confident but he still made quite a few bad statements, he still blasted out quite a few buzzwords. Kerry also seemed to have more suave and style in his mannerisms and his delivery or ideas. Bush also delivered many key points, but he stumbled through them more taking many long pauses and beating the same ideas to death in maniacal bouts or repetition. Also, it seemed as the debate went on, bush lost much of his focus and even succumbed to a whole lot of blinking during his closing remarks. Now while this debate won't have much of a major effect on the campaign, I think Kerry did a better job of presenting his ideas and his positions on the issues.

[GqSkrub]

BUSH:

"I understand how hard it is to commit troops. Never wanted to commit troops. When I was running -- when we had the debate in 2000, never dreamt I'd be doing that. But the enemy attacked us ... and I have a solemn duty to protect the American people, to do everything I can to protect us."

"But a president must always be willing to use troops. It must - as a last resort."

KERRY:

"The president just said something extraordinarily revealing and frankly very important in this debate. In answer to your question about Iraq and sending people into Iraq, he just said, 'The enemy attacked us.' Saddam Hussein didn't attack us. Osama bin Laden attacked us. Al-Qaida attacked us."

BUSH:

"First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that. And secondly, to think that another round of resolutions would have caused Saddam Hussein to disarm, disclose, is ludicrous, in my judgment. It just shows a significant difference of opinion."



Bush's response was terrible.

[Coman]

where can i see it? i missed it.

[Mrs_Mia_Wallace]

I would have watched it but it was on 2-4AM...damn time zones, I hope that they'll show it again this afternoon. :(

Mia:)

[Vol. Fireant]

If you missed the debate you can read the transcript and hear it in real audio here. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/vote2004/debates/index.html

[Coman]

why the fuck so many people still use .rm :mad:

[Vol. Fireant]

CNN has the video http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/09/30/debate.main/index.html

[CaboWaboAddict]

Yeah, Kerry was much more articulate. Bush, by repeating that Kerry flip-flops so much, really hurt himself.

[Mike H.]

I thought Kerry did pretty well, and I may actually change my vote, if he can find a way to pay for all that stuff without raising taxes.

[will]

Mike, I believe Kerry is planning to raise taxes for the very rich. As in, not you.

[whiteflip]

progressive taxes are nice aren't they. did anyone watch any of the cable news channel after coverage? I was flipping between CNN and FoxNews and its funny the spins they put on the candidates. Fox kept bringing up the Flip Flopping and CNN kept talking about how Bush didnt have a plan.

[toejam07]

I though the animosity between these two was hilarious. Nearly every time Bush would answer a question, Kerry would get this big horse grin across his face as if he was thinking "You idiot." Bush did basically the same thing: most times Kerry spoke, he had this scowl on his face as if he was thinking "Jackass." Funny stuff.

[dlinkwit27]

I think Kerry won my a landslide. I also liked when he said the following:

This president thought it was more important to give the wealthiest people in America a tax cut rather than invest in homeland security.


Those aren't my values. I believe in protecting America first. And long before President Bush and I get a tax cut -- and that's who gets it -- long before we do, I'm going to invest in homeland security, and I'm going to make sure we're not cutting COPS programs in America, and we're fully staffed at our firehouses, and that we protect the nuclear and chemical plants. The president also, unfortunately, gave in to the chemical industry, which didn't want to do some of the things necessary to strengthen our chemical plant exposure.


endquote.


He admited that he and Bush get the tax cuts. IDK why, but I liked that he did that.

[papadoc]

I gave Kerry the win last night.
But today I'm thinking maybe only in appearance.
Both these two fabricated and exaggerated facts :hang:

Factcheck (http://www.factcheck.org/article.aspx?docID=271)

[Starbucks]

"Of course we are after Saddam Hussein--I mean, Osama bin laden"This one made me roll on the floor. BUSH:

"First of all, of course I know Osama bin Laden attacked us. I know that. And secondly, to think that another round of resolutions would have caused Saddam Hussein to disarm, disclose, is ludicrous, in my judgment. It just shows a significant difference of opinion." Bush shot himself in the foot and wounded himself badly with this response.

Kerry handled the debate very well in my opinion. He was definately in control.

[yenerich]

I think Kerry won all the 3 debates.

[InvisableMan]

i watched the debates and dont think either of them won any of them.

my theory on debates is: noone can ever win, because in the end everyone still thinks they are right.

i vote on who would run the country closest to the exact way i would run the country if i were president. party does not faze me.

[whiteflip]

So you would vote for Ralph Nader?

[shakey_snake]

current polls show bush up by 5 pts or so.

[whiteflip]

current polls have a 5 point margin of error.

[yenerich]

Im with Kerry

[shakey_snake]

Well in that case:
Could you please reply to this thread?

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196631

[Phyltre]

The debates are planned, the parties get to decide who participates in the debate and who will moderate and what kinds of questions will be asked by whom.

Plus, the two-party system is one of the worst "democratic" systems imaginable. They agreed to disallow any third-party candidate from participating in any debate their candidates participated in.

Political monopoly, anyone?

[whiteflip]

I wish Nader and other parties, manly the Libertarian party participated in the debates. That would make things itneresting. Or at least have their own loser debate.

[Timbaland]

Kerry and Edwards won by a landslide..All three were good, but I wish they would have talked about the drug war...

I agree with alot of Kerrys issues, but the main one I agree most on is for Medical Marijuana.

[whiteflip]

Weed is cheaper than perscription drugs. And patients can grow their own medicine.

[Timbaland]

^^ Exactly..I live in a state where Medicinal use is illegal..I wish I couldve smoked legally during chemotherapy, cause the synthetic THC (marinol) didnt really do shit.

[whiteflip]

Its the big drug companies manipulating the government into doing whats not in the people's best interest. Big government sucks. Vote Nader.

[Wolfgang]

I cannot believe what an inarticulate incompetent speaker the man is. What such an ignorant and useless man is doing in office, I do not know.

[Phyltre]

Well, I'm not one to endorse any politcal fiend, but a good speaker isn't always a good leader or president. See, because people like hearing what they like to hear--right or not. So if it's all talk, are you really better off with a competent, oily speaker?

[Wolfgang]

Yes, you do have a point there. But it is my opinion that George Bush is incompetent at speaking AND being a president.

Here's something (some of?) you may enjoy. It's a joke a viewer sent in to Newsnight.

George Bush has a heart attack and dies. He goes to hell where the devil is waiting for him.

"I don't know what to do here," says the devil. "You're on my list but I have no room for you. But you definitely have to stay here, so I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I've got three people here who weren't quite as bad as you. I'll let one of them go, but you have to take their place. I'll even let YOU decide who leaves."

George thought that sounded pretty good so he agreed.

The devil opened the first room. In it was Richard Nixon and a large pool of water. He kept diving in and surfacing empty handed over and over and over. Such was his fate in hell.

"No!" George said. "I don't think so. I'm not a good swimmer and I don't think I could do that all day long."

The devil led him to the next room. In it was Tony Blair with a sledgehammer and a room full of rocks. All he did was swing that hammer, time after time after time.

"No! I've got this problem with my shoulder. I would be in constant agony if all I could do was break rocks all day!" commented George.

The devil opened a third door. In it, George saw Bill Clinton lying naked on the floor with his arms staked over his head and his legs staked in spread-eagle pose. Bent over him was Monica Lewinsky, doing what she does best.

George Bush looked at this in disbelief for a while and finally said, "Yeah, I can handle this."

The devil smiled and said, "Monica, you're free to go!"

[CaboWaboAddict]

:D

[whiteflip]

Hitler was a good speaker. Thats why they liked him so much. That and his promises.

[aFfLiCtEd]

http://www.imagehosting.us/himages/ihnp-35247thumb.jpg (http://www.imagehosting.us/?id=35247&type=viewpic)

[MidnightViper88]

4 and a half hours on TV and I could be President...

*wow* :D

[taylormemer]

The whole theme of the thing is rediculous, I can't stand to watch morons preaching silly views and beliefs.

[Phyltre]

silly views and beliefs.

You're no better. We're all human and equally capable of being deluded...and really, I doubt that politicians actually believe what they say.