Internet TV only showing two streams

[PrimeToo]

I have tried a clean install + the deletion of the folder it was originally in. I just installed the new version just released, and when I try to use Internet TV, all it shows is two streams. I have tried refreshing, and I do get that "you can only refresh one per minute" thing.

Any idea what to do to fix this?

[sankt]

When you use the directory listing - make sure you do not have anything typed into the search box.

Also, the wait one minute is built into the system so the YP directory wont get pounded with requests from winamp media libraries over and over again from the same clients.

[PrimeToo]

Nothing is in the request box, that was the first thing I checked. Winamp is connecting to the master server, but only reads like 320 bytes, then just exits and shows two streams, Nullsoft Band TV and NTV Broadcast Public Access.

ANy ideas?

[buddy_casino]

same prob, here . . .

[sankt]

Check your Internet TV Rating Preferences.

Open Winamp

> Control P ( Winamp Preferences )
> Click on the Streaming Media Tab
> Go to the Internet TV Rating Preferences section
> Click on the Specify Ratings button
> Set ratings accordingly

[PrimeToo]

Sorry, I have everything to be shown. I really don't think it's a problem with Winamp itself, maybe a problem with the master server.

[Thaidisco.net]

I'm also just get 2 stations listed. Something must be wrong today or we all got banned ;-)

Kind regards
Chris
Thaidisco.net

[buddy_casino]

done...
reading 321 bytes

only 2 streams . . .

[sankt]

Should have checked that first - same results on my end.

Not sure what the problem is.

[toqer]

There's some asshole doing bad thing to the YP atm.

[buddy_casino]

Originally posted by t0qer
There's some asshole doing bad thing to the YP atm.

:D :) :D

[Thaidisco.net]

Several services are down....
Radiotoolbox.com also have big probs.

[aspdevstudio]

Having probs here too.....Only 2 streams showing!
I think something is going on with internet TV....server
More reports, maybe quicker fix!?

[B0b]

The problem is NOT with your Winamp client

The other streams have been removed from the listing server. They will all be back when the time is right. Nothing to worry about.

[Jeeper One]

Hi everyone:

I saw the same thing (two streams in the YP) earlier tonight, yet I got a full listing of radio stations. Then I upgraded to 5.06 and now I get a full listing of radio & TV stations.

Dunno what's goin' on behind the scenes, but it is *wEiRd*

Cheers for now :)

[auricom]

could it be AOL doing stuff to NSV to get back at Winamp Team? or are they facing threats from copyright owners?

[B0b]

Originally posted by auricom
could it be AOL doing stuff to NSV to get back at Winamp Team? or are they facing threats from copyright owners?

It's neither, that's a fact.

[rockouthippie]

Yep, the YP video server seems to be fried. I guess it's time for the Winamp coffee rule :-).

[D@n9]

Just my luck, first time I try this Internet TV with winamp and the server list is fried.

HOWEVER if you have any channel URLs in your recent items, access a station via webpage, or type in teh URL into your playlist, if the channel is up, it will work.


It would be fun if one could outpuit a file of some sort with the playloist info in it, or recent items listed, so that this sort of server refesh problem could be avoided...if you had the list to begin with!

Bromont snow dawgs represent.

[rockouthippie]

scvi.net has a limited list of stations.

[DJ Egg]

Do not adjust your sets

Just to confirm... earlier on today, the NTV list server was hit by 400+ fake porn streams which just led to some dodgy website that tried to install spyware shit. As a result, the whole list has been taken down and will reappear when the issue is resolved.

[sankt]

pr0n streams, go figure

A *partial* list of NSV streams can be found here.
www.scvi.net/tvpls.htm

[Germ]

Originally posted by buddy_******
:D :) :D

This amuses you?

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by t0qer
There's some asshole doing bad thing to the YP atm.

oh ho ho, looks like my idea of an alternative yp isn't so shit now is it

i laugh now

oh yeah and a slight whitelist (currently you're using a whitelist anyway, the nullsoft channels) to make it not totally suck would be nice too.

[Jeeper One]

Hi everyone:

WHY OH WHY do all the REALLY DISHONEST NSV stations out there have to be the ones running PORN?

That said though, in all fairness, people like DLDVS shouldn't really be lumped in with the rest of their so-called "comrades". I'm sure they're taking a hit like everyone else is (except me, who has long since gone the P2P route with StreamerP2P. :) ).

Just a (admittedly wild, far fetched) thought :)

Cheers for now :)

[Inedible Bulk]

I would like to say, in response to Jeeper One, there are some very honest porn streams out there. And not just DLDVDS.

[B0b]

Here is a list of all the streams from earlier this week:

http://energyhosting.com/files/nsv.xml

You can access most of them by copying and pasting the link to the .pls in your browser, like this one:

http://www.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-tvstation.pls?id=624834&filename=playlist.pls

[Germ]

Originally posted by Inedible Bulk
oh ho ho, looks like my idea of an alternative yp isn't so shit now is it

i laugh now

oh yeah and a slight whitelist (currently you're using a whitelist anyway, the nullsoft channels) to make it not totally suck would be nice too.

oh ho ho ho, your alternative yp would still be subject to the kind of shit he's pulling
I laugh at your stupidity.

Don't fucking suggest a fucking thing to us, you don't know shit.

[jant77]

Originally posted by Jeeper One
Hi everyone:

WHY OH WHY do all the REALLY DISHONEST NSV stations out there have to be the ones running PORN?

That said though, in all fairness, people like DLDVS shouldn't really be lumped in with the rest of their so-called "comrades". I'm sure they're taking a hit like everyone else is (except me, who has long since gone the P2P route with StreamerP2P. :) ).

Just a (admittedly wild, far fetched) thought :)

Cheers for now :)

Yeah... I'm also running a few porn streams and I have always went by the rules, and I'm really pissed off with morons like this one popping up millions of bullshit streams...
Anyway, can you tell something more about the StreamerP2P? I have just checked it's site but I'd like to hear your opinions and experiences with it... :-)

[bingo]

Originally posted by jant77
Anyway, can you tell something more about the StreamerP2P? I'd like to hear your opinions and experiences with it... :-)
- works pretty good
- runs on Win32 only
- cheap licensing for commercial uses
- viewers should have it installed if you want to reduce your bandwidth usage
- you'll have to tweak the resources to allow

[jant77]

Originally posted by bingo
- works pretty good
- runs on Win32 only
- cheap licensing for commercial uses
- viewers should have it installed if you want to reduce your bandwidth usage
- you'll have to tweak the resources to allow

Thanks. And how about peercast, have you tried it or not?

[CraigF]

Over the last few months, an attacker has been creating listings with the intent to exploit internet explorer on the users machine to install spyware. Until this weekend, their effect has been mitigated by repeated bans.

Recently, they upped their game, using a network of drones (possibly aquired as part of the spyware/malware) they were able to maintain listings of approx. 500-600 streams in the yp, all of which were redirecting to his website which served up the spyware.

The YP became bogged down, requests for stream addresses became subject to flood protection which prevented the ban bot from doing its job, and the problem escalated.

To that end, the YP has been altered to serve up a static 2 stream feed for Internet TV until at least monday when appropriate staff can look at a possible solution, along with the relevent security/legal folk looking at taking down the attacker.

While the attackers stream was advertising as porn, they really had no intention of providing any amount of appropriate content, and the porn listings were only to maximize their "audience".

It is unfair to bundle the legit streamers into the same basket. Many streams have been very amicable with regards to rules and changes to the YP and prove that this system can work.

[bingo]

Originally posted by jant77
how about peercast
Yes I tried Peercast :
- Win32, Mac, *nix versions
- Winamp's plugin for the listeners or standalone
- difficult to understand what exactly the exe does on your system and not sure what the functions are (I mean that people are relaying your stream only when they decide to do, not only when they listen or watch - this point isn't clear for me)
- very difficult to find information as the community is driven by one broadcaster only (the famous A1KC :mad: ) and if you don't please to him... you can cry alone :D

[Jkey]

hi,
i noticed the winamp tv directory problem a few days ago
i knew i should have come to the forums and reported it
but i guess im just lazy or something!. :D
Thanks craig f for your post i hope it does get sorted. :up:
I agree just become some individual chooses to abuse
the yp,dont assume that all broadcasters who stream porn
are bad too.
For all of us who have stuck within the rules while streaming nsv,todays devolpments are a blow!!!
but i know that eventially the small number of hard working staff at nullsoft will get it fixed.
In regards to using streamerp2p and peercast sankt told me a while back to try p2p, so i tryed both of these and everytime i try to use them my pcs crash.
I tryed with a p4,p3, athlon and duron based pc,but always
had the same problems.
Also i noticed that if you got even one person with a bad connection in tune it messed it up for everyone else!!:cry:
so in the end i put them both to one side for the time being.
streamerp2p would be my first choice but its very ugly
and alot of my "average joe" listeners found it hard to
understand and reported it was not very pretty to look at.

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by Germ
oh ho ho ho, your alternative yp would still be subject to the kind of shit he's pulling
I laugh at your stupidity.

Don't fucking suggest a fucking thing to us, you don't know shit.

I know the list isn't just 2 channels, but down now.

And who says my alternative yp would be open to anyone who pings it? I got a PM from this smart 'jant77', who suggested several things, including

The streams would not be added automatically, but instead you would need to register and enter your server details (IP and port) and after the registration, you could start the server and tell the directory to add it, it would check if the server is really up, plus it might parse the data from the DNAS html page and include it with the listing. If the stream went down, the listing would be dropped after some time... It's not so unrealistic, however the system would probably also be a target of scammers with no content and activex/popups etc. (the more popular it would be, the more scammer would it attract), so it would have to be monitored both manually and using some automatic countermeasures.

lotta talkin going on there.

But, I like the idea of "register your ips with us before we listen to them", this gives us a way to contact you, and would really slow down spammers. plus id probably implement a limit on ips, you get to use 5 ips until you notify us you get to use more. there would be a little 'captcha' thing so autoregistering would be out of the question. result? 400 fake porn servers take a few hours to put up. Problem solvied.

also if it were to happen, it would not be a problem still, as a static list of 'approved users' would also be available. instead of a dynamic whitelist bogging down the server, a static whitelist doing just fine.

[jant77]

wow, thanks for calling me smart ;-))
anyway, yes, stuff like I've suggested for an alternative yp could work, but I think nullsoft staff is not going to do any major change to their system as they are now probably trying to survive with what they have and not developing new stuff...

[onapalehorse986]

That phony will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes! I miss my internet tv.

[cwoodf02]

Originally posted by onapalehorse986
That phony will be the first against the wall when the revolution comes! I miss my internet tv.

Could you possibly come up with a more pointless statement? :rolleyes:

Anyways, does anyone who's actually involved in dealing with this issue have an idea of how long it is likely to take?

Every cloud has its silver lining. Since the list is down, now might be an opportune time to get into some of those streams that are always full.

[CraigF]

Originally posted by cwoodf02
Could you possibly come up with a more pointless statement? :rolleyes:

Anyways, does anyone who's actually involved in dealing with this issue have an idea of how long it is likely to take?

work starts on monday. nothing until then. no timescales.

Every cloud has its silver lining. Since the list is down, now might be an opportune time to get into some of those streams that are always full.

I had thought the same.

[DJ AmPs]

Sorry to interrupt this thread, but an alternative YP is interesting.

It is possible to redirect YP touches with any OS, quite easily.

On a separate topic, for the sign up thing, just have one of those png images with messed up numbers and letters that a human has to repeat when signing up =). That way bots won't be able to do what was done to the nullsoft YP.

[toqer]

Alternative YP my f'n ass.

So you have a web based form for someone to fill out. What if someone sends a bot after your form, and floods your self moderation process with bogus crap. I don't know if self moderation was ever discussed during the creation of YP, but that's one reason I can think of to have it automated.

Now not everyone is going to play by the rules. So there are bots that go around checking to see if streams are valid. Invalid streams are removed from the YP. Usually they come from 1 or 2 hosts. Keeping up with that is easy.

What nailed the YP this weekend was a botnet. Someone really had it in for the YP. There was so many bogus listings coming from so many different IP's that the bot could not keep up with the demand. Banning 1 listing meant 2 more popped up in its place from a different IP.

That's what you face bulk. The guys in the war room at #nullsoft are a group that are tackling this problem everyday. Teaming together with the superbrains created in goverment labrotories they fight a neverending battle.

Oh and forget what I said about the superbrains.

[Jeeper One]

Hi everyone:Originally posted by bingo
- works pretty good
- runs on Win32 only
- cheap licensing for commercial uses
- viewers should have it installed if you want to reduce your bandwidth usage
- you'll have to tweak the resources to allow I'll have to second these comments Jant77. Though if there's one thing that's missing, that would be a translation on their website from AQH (which is what they use to measure a stations total hours) to the more familiar (at least to me anyways, being a Live365 broadcaster on the radio side) TLH format (Or at least a listing in BOTH AQH & TLH). Then this way, I get a pretty rough idea as to how well my station is REALLY doing on StreamerP2P.

Other than that, I really can't complain. The help & support is FABULOUS (comparable to us) and there's a sense of community there (Again, comparable to us).

Now, as to your earlier comments about the porn streams (as well as to to Bulk's as well), I know there have been a few honest porn NSV SHOUTcasters out there. I just named DLDVDS specifically since they offer (thus far anyways) THE MOST streams (3 that I can recall last time the directory was up) which anyone can get just about every time they connect. I wasn't trying to "bad mouth" all the other honest porn streamers out there, which is why I used the word "all" rather gingerly. I guess I didn't put enough ginger in it, eh? :)

Anyhow....Sorry if anyone felt offended by my lack of clarification. :)

Cheers for now everyone & HAPPY HOLIDAYS :)

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by Inedible Bulk
plus id probably implement a limit on ips, you get to use 5 ips until you notify us you get to use more. there would be a little 'captcha' thing so autoregistering would be out of the question. result? 400 fake porn servers take a few hours to put up.
Originally posted by DJ AmPs
On a separate topic, for the sign up thing, just have one of those png images with messed up numbers and letters that a human has to repeat when signing up =). That way bots won't be able to do what was done to the nullsoft YP.
Originally posted by t0qer
What if someone sends a bot after your form, and floods your self moderation process with bogus crap.

Ok, first: I said captcha, that's what the weird png is. t0qer didn't understand that's what captcha is and then decided that bots would be auto registering, but too bad I already ruled that out.

You all suck. Thanks for reading.

[reflex_mapper]

is this going to be fixed? I was about to open a internet TV station.

[drewbar]

Originally posted by reflex_mapper
is this going to be fixed? I was about to open a internet TV station.

Please bother to actually read the thread. You will find the anwser on the first page.

[T3rminat0r]

why, you people, don't bookmark your internet tv stations...? do it in the future...

[veeflo]

Ok I've checked my prefs still only getting two streams? But if u want to go to other internet TV streams go to www.saltwaterchimp.com can watch some of the same stuff that was on the server.

[ravetrax]

ok all this bs about an alternative yp is actually something i have thought about as well for many many months...

i can very easliy code this in php, mysql, and have "bot" run the check processes every so often...

i have already done this in a small form for ravetrax, which checks all my servers every 15 seconds, but mine has a full stats output reading all the xml and 7.html figuers..

where as this yp idea would only need to gather listener counts, title, and if the server is up...

i just never thought it would get used with shoutcast running its list as well.

[Ozgur]

<<<<why, you people, don't bookmark your internet tv stations...? do it in the future...>>>>

Couse that thing happened very 1'st time and nobody give a damn about bookmark the stream then...even if u did so..tha's not gonna help anyone but U...

[Jay]

Unfortunately any listing service you come up with is going to be vulnerable to attack. The idea of station registration has been floating around Nullsoft for many moons, but it was never implemented. As I have said in the past and will say again, you can only mitigate attacks like this, you can't completely prevent them. If someone has it out for you then they will do their best to find ways around what you throw at them. Ever since I first learned about the http trick 4 years ago I knew this sort of thing would become a problem eventually. At any rate I still believe that the listing is not the problem it's the client (winamp). without support for such things this type of attack would be useless.

[Inedible Bulk]

Please, take all talk of an alternative yp to this thread (http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=199268). (P.S. could write a program to intercept connections to the yp from the shoutcast, and then send it to multiple yps, a yproxy as it were)

to jay: a registration system for shoutcast would make it so hard for newbs to even think of, but a real alternative yp run professionally (as they say, private business usually does it better than the government in many cases, consider AOL the .gov) would be a real boon for the listings. a plugin to add them into winamp would add to the ease of use, and the ability to use said listings on other os's as well is another hit.

to ravetrax: if you're serious about programming this please msg me

[Jay]

Originally posted by Inedible Bulk
...(P.S. could write a program to intercept connections to the yp from the shoutcast, and then send it to multiple yps, a yproxy as it were)... I hear the icecast folks are already working on something like this for icecast style lists.

[dreadsusna]

Yep... we need to do something about this quick.

---------------

http://www.jamaicans*****code/index.php?passin=nsv

At the above link is a graphic containing a possible alternative YP design.

Note: In some cases I used some hardware symbols to denote software.

All of the components in systems A and B can be found open source somewhere. It's just a stupid proxy server. Anyone broadcasting would have to add this software.

The component in system D is the one that doesn't work now.

I would have to write two pieces of software in system E.

I could do this in 30 days.

I've attached a full sized graphic also.

[jant77]

BTW, any new developments on this issue? Have you guys already made up some solution or not yet?

[Germ]

Nothing new as of now

[dreadsusna]

In the short term you should simply mask out the porn sites.

In the long term find a real fix.

Think about it. Inaction will make Shoutcast NSV invalid.

Charles

[dreadsusna]

As I mentioned, one of the only ways to make an alternative IP can be seen below.

http://www.jamaicans*****wordpress/images/mini-Alternative YP Server.jpg

I thought I found a hole in the design though. The question is "How is the IP address of the alternative IP advertised to the general public at large?" That is, how is the Apache webserver (that serves the new NSV directory to browers) made known to the public. Actually, come to think of it, this isn't being done that well now. What I am saying is the listing of your video stream can't be found in at www.shoutcast.com. Therefore this implementation could be phase 2. This implementation would actually fix a shoutcast.com bug.

Right consumers of video to go to winamp for the NSV YP directory. Of course in the new design winamp, located on the client desktop, will be able to find the alternative IP. So only the "NSV YP Server deamon" and the "Winamp directory server daemon", shown in my diagram, would have to be coded from scratch. Of course this assumes that a program such as "Squid" can redirect streams from the NSV servers, in the world, to the Alternate NSV server.

See more on Squid at http://www.squid-cache.org. On my chart this component is called the "Windows/Linux Software Plugin". There are Squid binaries available in most operating systems.

I'll keep thinking about this. At a certain point I'll begin implementing it.

Charles

[jant77]

Originally posted by dreadsusna
In the short term you should simply mask out the porn sites.

In the long term find a real fix.

Think about it. Inaction will make Shoutcast NSV invalid.

Charles

damnit, you people don't understand that it's not porn streams what causes problems??
they ban porn, and that fag will come up with "FREE HBO BROADCAST" or something similar.

[dreadsusna]

I guess you're right. We must stop 100% of the crap. Reducing the amount of crap that hits the server is not a valid short term solution.

[Germ]

No shit?

[Gonzotek]

Originally posted by Inedible Bulk
Ok, first: I said captcha, that's what the weird png is. t0qer didn't understand that's what captcha is and then decided that bots would be auto registering, but too bad I already ruled that out.

You all suck. Thanks for reading.
From the Wikipedia Captcha Article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captcha)
Circumvention

Some free e-mail providers have used captchas in account registration, to deter spammers from obtaining large numbers of accounts automatically. Spammers have found a way to circumvent this restriction: simply present the captcha to a human user under false pretenses, and use the human's response to obtain the e-mail account.

To do this, the spammer must control a Web site to which human users wish to gain access — for instance, a pornography site. When a user goes to the spammer's porn site, the server starts a new account registration at the free e-mail provider. It downloads the provider's captcha and presents it to the user as a captcha for access to the porn site. The user, not knowing that the captcha is recycled, provides the correct response — and the spammer's software can then complete the e-mail account registration.

[CraigF]

you may not notice, but these forums use a captcha.
you may also not notice, but i spend an awful lot of time deleting spammers accounts from these forums before they even get chance to spam it.

not to mention all the mods working around the clock to keep it clean.

And that isnt even with the entertaining thought of infecting people with spyware.

People find a way.

[Thaidisco.net]

Why the hell can nobody with admin rights for the media library ad our streams manualy, after a content check, to the list same as its done with the 2 already listed streams ? It realy can't be so hard to do it. Who is responsible for the list ?

Kind regards
Chris (Thaidisco.net)

[Jay]

Originally posted by Thaidisco.net
Why the hell can nobody with admin rights for the media library ad our streams manualy, after a content check, to the list same as its done with the 2 already listed streams ? It realy can't be so hard to do it. Who is responsible for the list ?

Kind regards
Chris (Thaidisco.net) because they don't want to?

[dreadsusna]

Jay's comment is really funny. But he's right.

Charles

[Dude2222]

Originally posted by KXRM
I hear the icecast folks are already working on something like this for icecast style lists.
yeah, its nice:
http://www.oddsock.org/tools/ml_icecastlist/

[Thaidisco.net]

Hmmm.... and why they don't wanna do this ? What could be the reason for this, and who are "they" ? Is it the lame AOL stuff ?

Kind regards
Chris

[joshie]

'They' don't want to do it because it would be a pain in the ass, because it would require more manpower than available, and because it would show some sort of manual consent to what's being shown, which may incur further liabilities down the road.

If you were a paying customer who was paying a fee for SHOUTcast support and services, you might have room to bitch about this. Considering we are all using a free service here, it would behoove you to be patient rather than rile up the already over-worked unpaid support that we do have.

[Thaidisco.net]

...it would be a pain in the ass, because it would require more manpower than available...


No problem, they can use my "manpower" for this. It realy can't be so hard to ad a few famous stations like "RaveTrax" or "7bamboo" to a listing. You are right, its a great free service with a nice community and we should offer our "manpower" to help them out if we can.

Kind regards
Chris

[Jay]

Unfortunately you pose an answer to only one problem of many.
Originally posted by joshie
...and because it would show some sort of manual consent to what's being shown, which may incur further liabilities down the road.

If you were a paying customer who was paying a fee for SHOUTcast support and services, you might have room to bitch about this... not saying that this is the problem but these are equally good points.

Apply Coffee algorithm.

[dreadsusna]

You guys should make sure to read the "Null Soft Streaming Videl > Alternative YP?" thread.

We're building the beginnings of an Alternative NSV YP server.

[ameno13]

I lurk on these boards alot, and have been reading what ya'll have been saying lately. There are only a few people who have mentioned it, but, the answer to this is definitely not an alternative YP. I would say a good 1/3 or more of our traffic came from the Media Library section that is already in Winamp. People stumble upon that, or, in our case, find it because our radio and TV station are essentially the only ones that come up when your keyword is "Reggaeton." That's massive for us. I saw our tune-ins drop from 25,000 a day down to 6,000. That's substantial hit to take, and just as we were starting some new features :cry: .

I don't know who can answer this for me, or if anybody can. I have been reading about the shake-up over at Nullsoft. Is this problem even being worked on, ie. are there actually plans for the YP to go back up? Or is this going to just be left as it is because of a lack of funds and will?

Hate to ask the tough question, but nobody had just come out and asked it (prolly because the answer might not make us too happy).

------------------
Ameno
PerreoRadio & PerreoTV (http://www.perreoradio.com)

[dreadsusna]

Ameno,

Your point is very well taken. I'll let you know as soon as the Alternate YP is up send links into the Winamp media library.

Let me know if you can think of an alternative I can help you with. I welcome a better idea.

Cheers.

Charles

[ameno13]

Thnx Charles

[Germ]

it'll be back up soon
it won't stay like this forever

[Inedible Bulk]

the point of "We get our hits from the media library", well people used the media library before it "pops open when you install winamp", back in winamp 2 days. things got slightly popular (just look at these forums back in THOSE days) but not booming. It will be found, and the idea of the alternative YP will be found if the people in the current one support it. There's already these people on linux who wanted a way to see the list, so a program was written (http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=200401).

Anyway, if people support it and dual-list, people will know that the alternative is there. Like, Every Show Sucks, starts putting little messages "Listed in ShoutCast AND Alternacast" or whatever between the shows. I don't know.

Winamp wasn't instantly on everyones computer, they found it, and the media library was there for a long time, and people told others via Word of Mouth (Blogs, look for nsv mentions in 2003, they exist) and thus that spread. When wa5 came out and it was pushing the media library, then it was seen by the masses. Who is to say it will not happen again, what with all the plugins so popular in the plugins section? These will come into play sir.


It takes a tragedy to unite a community. Noone liked my alt YP idea before this, then they found out the main one might go down sometimes. That's a shocker. What if google went down tomorrow? You have yahoo, msn, excite, lycos, endless others. Shoutcast? Nothing.

[dreadsusna]

the point of "We get our hits from the media library", well people used the media library before it "pops open when you install winamp", back in winamp 2 days. things got slightly popular (just look at these forums back in THOSE days) but not booming. It will be found, and the idea of the alternative YP will be found if the people in the current one support it. There's already these people on linux who wanted a way to see the list, so a program was written.

<<

Anyway, if people support it and dual-list, people will know that the alternative is there. Like, Every Show Sucks, starts putting little messages "Listed in ShoutCast AND Alternacast" or whatever between the shows. I don't know.

<< Yep. We cannot have a single point of failure.

Winamp wasn't instantly on everyones computer, they found it, and the media library was there for a long time, and people told others via Word of Mouth (Blogs, look for nsv mentions in 2003, they exist) and thus that spread. When wa5 came out and it was pushing the media library, then it was seen by the masses. Who is to say it will not happen again, what with all the plugins so popular in the plugins section? These will come into play sir.

<< The tens of thousands of people who have been
<< watching .NSV files via winamp are undergoing
<< withdrawal symptoms right now.
<< They're foaming at the mouth. At this point in time
<< they'll install a plugin or anything else we ask them to.
<<


It takes a tragedy to unite a community. Noone liked my alt YP idea before this, then they found out the main one might go down sometimes. That's a shocker. What if google went down tomorrow? You have yahoo, msn, excite, lycos, endless others. Shoutcast? Nothing.


__________________

[ameno13]

I admire your optimism, Bulk, and I also agree that there is nothing as powerful as the whole NSV system that is out there right now.

I think what you are saying is true for the vast majority of the TV streams. You have a community of people out there who religiously watch the NSV streams, and those people will do anything to get a YP so they can do their thing. Alot of these are savy porn watchers who have figured out that it is far better to watch a 15 second opening ad than it is to wait for clip downloads on some file-sharing network. The porn streams and pirated cartoons, by and large, are what has been driving Shoutcast video's popularity (that's why the biggest streams are mainly porn and sitcom episodes).

I don't want to seem like we got something that is different, but most of the days this month, when the YP was up, it was only our stream and Giga ETV that were non-porn in the top 10 streams. The real power of the Shoutcast YP is that there is content there that you can't get anywhere else.

Here's the key thing though... people like myself have a choice. Right now, our site is basically the only one in the world where you can watch Reggaeton videos. You can't even see these videos on TV in most of the world (which is ludacrous, go google "reggaeton" to see just how popular it is worldwide). Unfortunately, there are lots of choices out there in terms of formats to use. I actually like shoutcast, but if the YP stays down, I'd definitely move to another platform just to get a listing even on a minor YP associated with another program.

For someone like me who is actually able to use this technology in a non-porn commercial way, the YP was and is essentially the only reason that I use Shoutcast to serve the video (as opposed to, say, Steamcast). If the Shoutcast community is going to stay vibrant, then there has to be a look toward those of us who REALLY believe in Shoutcast and are out here putting our money where our mouth is. This is not a hobby for me.

So, I'm down for an alternative YP, just explain to me how the average, everyday, non-hardcore streamie is going to be turned on to my channel by the aternative YP (that isn't in the Media Library). It doesn't make sense that someone has to be looking at my channel to know that I am listed in a YP somewhere else (why would I want to direct him to another channel by putting him up on another YP?)

I am glad that the Media Library YP will go back up, and am not trying to sh*t on people's efforts, I'm just trying to inject a point of view, that, up until this time, wasn't a really big part of the conversation regarding NSV.

-------
Ameno
PerreoRadio & PerreoTV (http://www.perreoradio.com)

[dreadsusna]

Ameno,

Dude... one of my people here in NY is a Reggaeton lover. She picked our Reggaeton stream and is going to do a nice little Reggaton dance later in the week. This is going to be a beautiful stream.

Maria's going to tear up that dance floor. You can her and her Reggaeton picks at http://www.jamaicans*****code/index.php?passin=reggaeton-radio

Ameno... as soon as I get this streamlister crap to compile I want to check out your site.

The alternative YP we are building is going to be listed in the Media Library (smile). Of course it's just a backup to the original (which will eventually crash again).

[CraigF]

i think you people are missing the point entirely.

your alternative YP will need people to download your plugin or visit your site to get there. most people dont do shit. they get winamp, they open up internet tv, and they see two streams listed and thats it.

With regards to ameno13's post about nullsoft being light handed right now, the shoutcast YP has been mostly taken over by aol streamops. I assume that they are the ones dealing with this issue.

[Carper-Fisher]

I want to know, is the media library list for nsv coming back again, are is he forever offline? And when it is coming back, take this along time work are is it come back before X-Mas????? Because the list isn't this long time gone.

azona webradio
http://members.home.nl/azonaradio/azona.gif (http://www.azonawebradio.nl)

[jant77]

Originally posted by Carper-Fisher
I want to know, is the media library list for nsv coming back again, are is he forever offline? And when it is coming back, take this along time work are is it come back before X-Mas????? Because the list isn't this long time gone.

azona webradio

have you read the whole thread?

[Carper-Fisher]

yes i did read the whole thread, but there is nothing what explain it all. and they didn't tell if the list is coming up again.

http://members.home.nl/azonaradio/azona.gif (http://www.azonawebradio.nl)

[jant77]

Originally posted by Germ
it'll be back up soon
it won't stay like this forever

Carper-Fisher, I think this is pretty clear statement ;-)

plus, CraigF has explained the issue pretty much clearely too.
There is no exact date/time when it will be fixed. People tend to think that if something breaks unexpectedly, tech guys immediately know what's up and exactly know how long will it take to fix it. That's not true, trust me :-)

[Carper-Fisher]

thank you, because every one need this list:-)

http://members.home.nl/azonaradio/azona.gif (http://www.azonawebradio.nl)

[dreadsusna]

CraigF,

I understand your point. Let us know if you have any other ideas. We'll help you pursue them.

Doing nothing is not an option.

Charles

[CraigF]

well, the only thing you could do is attempt to get your plugin distributed with winamp. but since it competes with nullsoft's own YP, AND offers content which aol/nullsoft would not be in control of, the chances of that happening are slim to nill.

otherwise, you're stuck with word of mouth.

Like me and kxrm have said, there isnt any reason for you not to do it, just dont have misgivings of what it would solve.

[rockouthippie]

From the description of the hacking that happened, I'm expecting that it will be really difficult to fix the problem, if it's even possible.

This looks like a sophisticated attack, exploiting client computers with attack bots.

Kevin
http://webranger.net

[toqer]

I had an idea for checking streams a few days ago, probably a stupid one but here goes.

Why not make every winamp client out there check streams? Sort of like a huge botnet of winamp clients, checking streams. That way there isn't a single point of failure, plus the workload is distributed, and the bandwidth becomes aggragated.

There could be 2 YP's. One yp of "approved streams" and another YP of "unnaproved streams" clients would get their work unit from the unnaproved stream, check it out, if it's good, move it to the approved stream list.

[B0b]

t0qer, hacked clients can then be used to cause an even bigger mess. Besides, the bottle neck has always been the shoutcast server, not the bot.

[Carper-Fisher]

Originally posted by B0b
t0qer, hacked clients can then be used to cause an even bigger mess. Besides, the bottle neck has always been the shoutcast server, not the bot.

I think that this is a right observation. Because I think so too, a bot could not be hacked, but a server could be hacked, and the client could be. So the server and the client must be better protected for all the mess attacks. I wait what happens now and I hope it is very soon all solved.

azona webradio

http://members.home.nl/azonaradio/azona.gif (http://www.azonawebradio.nl)

[dreadsusna]

*use the alternate yp thread for this crap

[Inedible Bulk]

DreadSusna, one of the main reasons I get frustrated with you is this: You fail to follow orders.

I specifically stated earlier in the thread to take ALL "Alternative YP" talk to the appropriate thread, to keep it in one place and not spread it out over 2+ threads. You, however, agreed, then never followed it. You keep responding in here, and your last post was a perfect example. You responded to craigf, then decided to add a buttload of information on "your plans for the alternative yp", which would better go in the thread titled "Alternative YP".

I would like to have you on the project, but with this continual blatant disrepsecting of my request, I do not know if you would actually help instead of hurt the project by going off on tangents.

[Jay]

Originally posted by B0b
t0qer, hacked clients can then be used to cause an even bigger mess. Besides, the bottle neck has always been the shoutcast server, not the bot. No, the problem is on Nullsoft's end, they could easily integrate the features of the bot I wrote a while back into the add script.

[B0b]

Originally posted by KXRM
No, the problem is on Nullsoft's end, they could easily integrate the features of the bot I wrote a while back into the add script.

Yes. Are you sure you quoted the right post?


ps. shoutcast server = yp.shoutcast.com etc.

[Jay]

when you say shoutcast server the usual assumption is you mean the DNAS. Otherwise most refer to yp.shoutcast.com as the yp

[retrostation]

I miss the http trick, Used it well with no weirdness or malice, it just pulled up the website and all was fine. didnt sell or solicit a thing... oh well....

[Germ]

Doesn't it suck when fuckers abuse a privelige and get it taken away from everyone?

[dreadsusna]

*use the alternate yp thread for this crap

[jant77]

Originally posted by Germ
Doesn't it suck when fuckers abuse a privelige and get it taken away from everyone?

It sucks hard.

[ameno13]

dreadsusna,

I have the dll installed for your yp, but nothing is showing up in my Media Library. It also doesn't show up in my plugins section of preferences. Anybody else getting this issue?

[Ojajoh?]

Originally posted by ameno13
dreadsusna,

I have the dll installed for your yp, but nothing is showing up in my Media Library. It also doesn't show up in my plugins section of preferences. Anybody else getting this issue?

Yes, same story here...

[dreadsusna]

I found a bug please standby.

Charles

[dreadsusna]

*use the alternate yp thread for this crap.

[dreadsusna]

*use the alternate yp thread for this crap

[jant77]

Now this is taking too long :-(
I see that the YP doesn't return an error now, instead looks like it worked as normal, but no listing in the directory...
Is there still no timeframe of when it could be back up (if it will be)? After one week of work there should be at least some vision :-)

[Jay]

there is, for us, it's patience. Yes, they are working on it.

[Carper-Fisher]

we will be patience and hopefull, but we hope we haven't to wait to long, before everything is back to normal.

Azona webradio

http://members.home.nl/azonaradio/azona.gif (http://www.azonawebradio.nl)

[Ozgur]

well we'll wait...i donno i'll wait personally ...instead of searching for alternatives....couse 1st hard to figure it out the new one 2'nd who said it's gonna be more accurate...i donno man the hole concept is messed up already...porn i'm all set with watchin' it by dvd or downloading from the internet...but when it start interupting the others i think it's gettin a LITTLE too much...F!@#@ that S@#@ yo i want the damn TV.....

[jant77]

...another one who doesn't get the point...

[Ozgur]

U say so....:))

[jant77]

Hmm I see new Winamp has been released...
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=200927
Maybe it's related to the solving of this issue? :-) Because I've heard before that they're not working on winamp anymore and there will be no new versions...

[Jay]

that's inaccurate, winamp is still being maintained and this update has little to do with this issue from what I understand.

[jant77]

Originally posted by KXRM
that's inaccurate, winamp is still being maintained and this update has little to do with this issue from what I understand.

Oh I see. It was just a thought while waiting for the directory to be back :-)

[CraigF]

if anything, the new winamp release sadly diverted resources from a YP fix. hopefully things will progress quicker now.

[Acidrainfall]

I don't understand, if work was to start monday, and it's SATURDAY, where is the work to show? the list is now gone, won't even load. Not to be critical, but it gets annoying, so many things have done this, like cokestudios for example (i was only interested in their "cokestudios 2"). It was said to come out July something, and so i was home that day and went on, and it was a half hour after it was supposed to open, and it was closed. I came back the next day, and it was still closed. To this day, they opened it for maybe 24 hours combined since they said they would open it and ONLY as a "BETA" version. something as big as coke doing this? well i know you guys probably know a LITTLE more than them but seriously. And i agree with them, i think your alternate YP is bull ^_^

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by Acidrainfall
And i agree with them, i think your alternate YP is bull ^_^

i bet you go hang around pepsi and dance and sing about "coke is superior, you're all lame, alternatives suck, please gimme another bottle to suck on"

thanks sir

[dreadsusna]

once in the alternative yp thread is enough, thanks.

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by dreadsusna
once in the alternative yp thread is enough, thanks.

jesus dreadsusna, i tell you to post in the alternative yp thread, kxrm tells you and edits your post to prove his point, and you STILL CONTINUE TO SPAM OTHER THREADS

You're probably going to get banned for it one of these days, and that's a fact.

[Germ]

You might get banned too Inedible Bulk

[Jeeper One]

Hi everyone:

YADA....YADA....YADA. Blah....Blah....Blah. Etc....Etc.....Etc.

I have but THREE words to say in response to ALL of this.....

PEER-TO-PEER (Okay, that's two words with one said twice, but you get the idea)

Look peoples....I've put my TV station on StreamerP2P and HAVE NOT LOOKED BACK. I can watch my station nearly 99.9% of the time AND STILL have half my bandwidth available. I have it set up whereas StreamerP2P takes up one slot (though I understand it can be setup whereas it doesn't even do that, but I have yet to figure that part out) and I have another for myself and website visitors.

I don't bookmark my station (even though I can if I really wanted to) because it's ALREADY in the OPEN LOCATION dialog box in Winamp. All I need to do is hit CTRL-L and OPEN AND *VOILA* it connects to my server and before I know it, I'M WATCHING INTERNET TELEVISION.

I don't wanna sound like a genius here, but some people here obviously think that ANYTHING outside of a Winamp TV listing either A). Doesn't exist B). Isn't an NSV stream C). Is somehow ROCKET SCIENCE or D). ALL OF THE ABOVE

Is it just ME who thinks this?

Cheers for now & HAPPY HOLIDAYS :)

[sankt]

There are major security issues that have not been addressed with Streamer P2P.

The internal web browser will allow rogue scripts and malware downloads which is identical to what was plaguing the winamp mini browser with the hTtP trick.

[ravetrax]

yes, but you have to remember, we as broadcasters know of these things, consumers only know to look in the winamp tv list, just as common apple users only know to look in there radio directory for stations...

you might be able to tune into your stream all the time, i have the same effect, its always there for me when i want it... going p2p would only effect the people your tring to reach. i personally feel the more places you can get listed the better you are... and going p2p would only limit that.

so all in all, your suggesting everyone going to p2p wouldn't effect solve the issue of provising the simple mind masses with a list of good stations to listen to.


anywho... :D

[DJ Egg]

Update

This issue is now resolved.
Please refresh your Internet TV views.

Thank you.

Ok, someone decided to make a new (http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=201127) thread instead of keeping it to this one. Locking this as a result :/