unbelievable ---

[ken7177]

I shut the free pcmovieman shoutcast stream down
although I still sell direct downloads.

The unbelievable part is this.
Is this who we're streaming free video to?
Why would I possibly want this type of audience?
Here's the first email I get today:

EMAIL FROM: adamk@wn.com.au

MESSAGE:
WHAT HAPPENED TO THE FREE FUCKING STREAM?!!
YOU FUCKING SUCK ASSHOLE!
YOU A NO GOOD MOTHERFUCKER!
BITE ME COCK BREATHE!

[jant77]

lol :-)))))
actually, people tend to be pretty rude when communicating through the internet :-) I bet this guy would be like "yes, sir, ok, sir!" if you met him in real life :-))))

[ken52787]

Well rest assured that you can still sleep at night and he's worked up into a tizzy.

[Inedible Bulk]

gimme the full email headers please

i'll get you his home address

[Jeeper One]

Hi everyone:

Hey Ken (pcmovieman), why not just keep your stream up but just unlisted for awhile and see what happens?

Who knows, the idiot just might go back to watching one of the porn streams where he can not only get his cock bitten - but also GET HIS ROCKS OFF too. This way, if he's the messy type, he'd be too busy cleaning up his mess to even worry about YOUR stream. :) :lol: :)

Just a thought :)

Cheers for now & HAPPY HOLIDAYS everyone :)

[rockouthippie]

About 5% of people fall into the ignorant asshole category. It's just a fact of life I get at least one of these emails a month.

I'd rather hear from people like that, than be them.

I like your stream.

Kevin
http://webranger.net
WebRanger TV

[Jeeper One]

Hi everyone:

Yeah what Kevin said. :)

Cheers for now & HAPPY HOLIDAYS :)

P.S. I like your station too Ken. :)

[ken7177]

Thanks Folks - Streaming was fun but it's reduced to
a mild hobby at this point.

Ever since shoutcast removied the hTtP trick
the revenue from google clicks was so low it really
wasn't worth tying up a machine to send video although
I left it on. Now with the YP totally blown it's just
an indicator that this is not a reliable means of
income. The pcmovieman website does fine without the
shoutcast stream - with hTtP trick it added
nice easy pocketchange but it's been simply a loss
leader for quite some time without hTtP.

I'me using the pcmovieman stream machine for archiving
another project so that saves me $1500

I really wish the shoutcast/winamp video team would
professionalize the YP and VIDEO portions - it's
got such good potential but currently has the
appearence of being abandonware.

Thanks for everyone's replies -

[Inedible Bulk]

hrmmmmmm

had an idea just now

hTtP is filtered at the yp to go through some 'filter' which removes all objects and vbscript and whatever else will cause spyware

would be a bit of a server load on the nullsoft end but would cure all disease too

asin:

icy-url: hTtP://wa.site.com

becomes after yp'd

icy-url: hTtP://filter.shoutcast.com/wa.site.com

don't know if this will work as it may activate the hTtP at the server, then we'd have to have the yp check to make sure the icy-url has the filter before it gets listed, and if it doesnt it doesnt get listed. only ideas i got kids :(

[ken7177]

Bulk - There's a ton of good solutions - And, like your suggestion, the 'checking' of icy-url from an approved list is the most effective.

A paid inclusion YP whereas entry into the YP is controlled by hand and contract. Any violations voids the contract and forfeits any fees. I think most legit streamers would jump on board considering the value of the YP. In fact, shoutcast/winamp could go as far as to host the HTML content of the hTtP page to ensure no funky code gets sent out. This would allow visual inspection and approval.

All this for a fee of course.

Alternate YPs could exist for 'fringe' and unregulated providers.

[Inedible Bulk]

i would hope the main yp wouldn't be paid inclusion, but if it ever became so, it would defintely avoid things.

would it be pay by server or by person? I hope by person as relays exist for good reason

[ken7177]

Anthing's better than what it is. And even though we're offering suggestions it's like farting in the wind until some action takes place. The YP issue is well-aged at this point and I haven't seen any official posts implying permanent / reliable fix. C'est la vie.

So everyone have a happy holiday - I certainly am here in beautiful hurricane central Orlando! - Out to do a little fishing and maybe hit a few golf balls in the lake!

[Jeeper One]

Hi everyone:

Ken - No offense dude BUT If you think you're going to make a fortune (or even a tidy little profit) OFF A WEBSITE, then you must've been one of the MILLIONS of people who listened to the song & dance $ales$ pitch that the Internet is "the next gold rush" when in fact ANYONE who's been on the 'net should know that simply isn't true.

I mean look at all the "Dot Coms" that have turned out to be nothing more than DOT BOMBS and, as a result, have closed their doors (and continue to do so even today).

So how can a private such as yourself individual expect to fair any better?

Just something to think about :)

Cheers for now everyone & Happy Holidays :)

[sankt]

If you put together the right combination of content and delivery, then yes you can make "a tidy little profit".

For example - banner advertising.

Even if you have a low end click through rate of 3 - 5 %, a daily traffic flow of one thousand visits can generate some healthy cash flow.

Now imagine ramping up that traffic flow to a couple of thousand visits per day. Your talking some serious cash flow.

No devious scripting or malware download needed to achieve those results either.

[ken7177]

Jeeper - I appreciate your comments but feel obliged to let you know I own several web properties all of which make a profit. KJA Consulting products are featured in the Smithsonian Institute and numerous stores worldwide and also on many television programs. My company is also involved in many other facets of multimedia and aucoustical engineering.

Even with all that I still think the shoutcast directory would be very profitable for all involved if it were professionally maintained.

I find the promise of media on demand exciting and would like to see a non sony/mgm/universal/hbo/etc controlled entry in the market.

Heck, Even BULK thinks it's time for a new directory - and he agrees with practically noone :)

Jeeper - You've got to admit you did better with the hTtP trick - c'mon - admit it :)

[ken7177]

Sankt - I haven't posted or read in a while - good to see you're still at it.

And you've hit the nail on the head - the value ( to providers ) is the traffic - not the stream. The stream is simply the enticement.

Winamp media browser traffic is not insignificant.

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by ken7177
Heck, Even BULK thinks it's time for a new directory - and he agrees with practically noone :)

i agree with myself, it was my idea before this whole directory go down thing.

people laughed, and now they are interested, its so funny.

[B0b]

Originally posted by Jeeper One
So how can a private such as yourself individual expect to fair any better?

Exactly because he is an individual. He will not waste money like most of the failed dot coms did.

I know plenty of people who became millionaires from the internet. Just like any business, it’s not easy, but it sure is possible.

[sankt]

The Internet has also shown that niche markets do survive and flourish - some doing amazingly well compared to their rival mainstream counterpart.

Specialized niche media outlets do very well large diversified consumer base.

Case in point - Satelite TV and Cable TV channel variety.

Golf channel - food channel - surfing channel - antique channel and the lists goes on and on.


Hey Ken - glad to see your still about as well - hopefully things pick up for you - so you can make your streams public again. :)

[retrostation]

When the http trick went away so did retrostationtv... I was getting over 2 million hits per month on the website and some pocket change in donations. I didnt even have google ads.... but, take that away and it goes to maybe 10 per day. The only way to be successful and have hits to a website with streaming is to:

A: Use http trick
B: Be featured on a major network news program.
C: Spend tons of money on ads yourself

Just allowing the webpage to pop up is not offensive and should be allowed. Thats all i did.

But until that day arrives, my stream is down.

[Inedible Bulk]

here's something you guys have missed (again) that i made sure to mention would be awesome for my 'alternative yp' dream. the plugin would have a way to EASILY GET TO THE PERSONS WEBSITE, and why?

People are REALLY FUCKING LAZY. If they can't click a little button in the video window or media library, do you think they're going to open their web browser (and probably close a ton of popups because they're too lazy to clean for spyware, i actually know people like this) and type in your web address? hell no. Especially when typing is hard for them, we're dealing with a crowd who says 'hi r u ther?' instead of 'hello, are you there?'.

the hTtP trick made it damn easy to get to someones website, but due to lack of foresight "oh, this thing uses IE and will probably install spyware? DIDNT THINK OF THAT ONE!" being included to this day (hTtP is disabled, but winamp still supports it, it's just off by default, and still uses mshtml.dll) with winamp.

Thanks guys, you have this nice idea "lets let them see their website easily!", you include a minibrowser so that it doesnt interrupt their normal one/load toolbars that they dont need, and then allow OBJECT's and EMBEDs and whatever else makes activex happen. And once you remove this ability to easily get to someones website in the minibrowser, you don't replace it with another obvious location. :(

[sankt]

A easier approach would be the inclusion of banner capability below the video display screen - similiar to what is available for the windows media player.

Unfortunately the security issues associated with the http trick and the minibrowser far outweight the financial benifits to individual broadcasters.

[CraigF]

i'd like to see your alternative solution to this problem. any time you automatically force someone to any site you have a security issue.

With regards to retrostation, thats your situation. Many proper tv stations make money without forcing your tv to automatically go to their website. I'm not saying that internet tv is in the same situation, but its very early days yet.

[Inedible Bulk]

CraigF, I hope you weren't referring to my 'button' idea, which would be placed suitably.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Nsv-toqertv.png

As you can see, there are various little buttons underneath the video screen, why not one shaped like a little globe maybe and that links to the website? maybe one with the aim icon if the person has icy-aim so that they can be contacted? meh.

[CraigF]

plausible, but still, thats not forced.

I think this is a better option than having no list at all.

[retrostation]

Well, guys, help me out. Im open for help and suggestions.
Security issue: yes, i understand. But, from my perspective I had always used netscape and now firefox so I never really looked at it from the dreaded IE perspective. Ergh I loath I.E. I switched from Mac to pc just to do the streaming media.

So, Here's a challenge:

Help me create a way to get people to the website while allowing them to be VERY LAZY.

As for the alternate YP, Let's boogie.

As for P2P, lets boogie.

As for getting Retro back up, let's boogie.

Anyone that would like to use me/retrostation to test, implement, develop, or otherwise create new, inventive options for the community let me know. I will provide the site, stream, content. You would help code/implement.
I do not have the technical code writting know how. But I offer it as a public service to you all.

It would help me and everyone else.

What do you think?

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by CraigF
plausible, but still, thats not forced.

I think this is a better option than having no list at all.

how is making it a pain in the ass to get to someones website better than no list at all? We can't meet somewhere in the middle with "ok, no forced popup, but a damn easy way to get to the website still". That's what the forced popup was, for many, an easy way. The fact that it's now a pain. If someone thinks icy-url means anything (it does but thats even worse) then they wont mention it in their stream title. Even if they do, it still requires more user interaction with their web browser (again, look at the parent company of nullsoft, AOL, and AOL Speak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_speak)) which requires them to type out "w w w . d e s y n c . c o m", or even worse, " w w w . e v e r y s h o w s u c k s . c o m ", that would take AGES for someone who hunts and pecks.

A little globe icon or something to make it easier to get to the website would make it easier on all the lazy or just 'cant type' people, as well as those who can't type for reasons other than laziness (elderly and frail, disabled, etc). What's wrong with making it easier for everyone? CraigF, seriously?

[Jay]

Originally posted by retrostation
Well, guys, help me out. Im open for help and suggestions.
Security issue: yes, i understand. But, from my perspective I had always used netscape and now firefox so I never really looked at it from the dreaded IE perspective. Ergh I loath I.E. I switched from Mac to pc just to do the streaming media.

So, Here's a challenge:

Help me create a way to get people to the website while allowing them to be VERY LAZY.

As for the alternate YP, Let's boogie.

As for P2P, lets boogie.

As for getting Retro back up, let's boogie.

Anyone that would like to use me/retrostation to test, implement, develop, or otherwise create new, inventive options for the community let me know. I will provide the site, stream, content. You would help code/implement.
I do not have the technical code writting know how. But I offer it as a public service to you all.

It would help me and everyone else.

What do you think? Stuff is already happening all around you, just pick the technologies that you feel are the most interesting/promising.

Originally posted by Inedible Bulk
how is making it a pain in the ass to get to someones website better than no list at all? We can't meet somewhere in the middle with "ok, no forced popup, but a damn easy way to get to the website still". That's what the forced popup was, for many, an easy way. The fact that it's now a pain. If someone thinks icy-url means anything (it does but thats even worse) then they wont mention it in their stream title. Even if they do, it still requires more user interaction with their web browser (again, look at the parent company of nullsoft, AOL, and AOL Speak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AOL_speak)) which requires them to type out "w w w . d e s y n c . c o m", or even worse, " w w w . e v e r y s h o w s u c k s . c o m ", that would take AGES for someone who hunts and pecks.

A little globe icon or something to make it easier to get to the website would make it easier on all the lazy or just 'cant type' people, as well as those who can't type for reasons other than laziness (elderly and frail, disabled, etc). What's wrong with making it easier for everyone? CraigF, seriously? I really don't think in all the time that Nullsoft sat and developed this stuff they ever cared to look at it from a commercial point of view. The original idea was to allow bedroom dj's the chance to be heard. If you are looking for something more I really don't think Winamp is the solution. Maybe that will change or maybe it won't. To start on this path would mean to start on a journey of possible liability and accusations of spyware/adware. Up until this point Winamp's original intention was to be as nag-less as possible. To add this would take it a step away from that.

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by KXRM
I really don't think in all the time that Nullsoft sat and developed this stuff they ever cared to look at it from a commercial point of view. The original idea was to allow bedroom dj's the chance to be heard. If you are looking for something more I really don't think Winamp is the solution. Maybe that will change or maybe it won't. To start on this path would mean to start on a journey of possible liability and accusations of spyware/adware. Up until this point Winamp's original intention was to be as nag-less as possible. To add this would take it a step away from that.

Sigh, time to install 2.95 and prove that this used to be there, sorta. The minibrowser had a few more features. What's wrong with allowing the bedroom dj's to be heard, as well as allow people to say, download some samples from the bedroom dj, donate to the bedroom dj so he can afford to stay on the air, and whatever? I seriously doubt you can find a webcomic (not a syndi with a web version) without a donate button. Since I find it hard to believe Justin didn't read any of those, or any of the nullsoft crew, I can see that they'd know "Hey, people have donate buttons!", and this would be one of the main reasons hTtP was around originally. It wasn't supposed to be known, porncast used it first, but people figured that out, and a few other stations used it.

Now, I do understand what you're saying, "What if someone's watching some h0t pr0n 30 second clips followed by 2 minute advertisements and clicks that globe by accident?", well that's a easy to solve problem. Make it ask "Did you want to go to www.x.com? www.x.com is not run by nullsoft or winamp, and viewing www.x.com in Internet Explorer may be insecure."

Only if IE is the default that is, otherwise you can cut down significantly on that message :), removing the "and viewing www.x.com in Internet Explorer may be insecure." line. This would eliminate the "responsibility" claim, and that's why sites say "You are about to go to a website not operated by x.com, do you wish to proceed?", bbc does this and so does cnn i think.

I know this probably will achieve nothing, but trying and achieving nothing is better than not trying at all.

[rockouthippie]

The mini-browser ban cost me THOUSANDS of dollars. Probably about $5000 (probably more)net by now. My site breaks even, but I'm not seeing Shoutcast as a viable technology any more.

Like Ken said, it's a hobby.

I liked $800 checks per month from Google. I was running 50 slots, now 30. I had a budget to buy new programming, plans to make better faster broadcasts...... pfft!.

Remember, I even got a paragraph in the New York Times. That was followed by being economically smashed. KXRM told me that Nullsoft was trying to present Winamp in the best light. I presented it in the best light. The reporter for NYT ..... You have things that people can watch, might want to watch .....

We have new webcaster rules. LEGAL programming is cheaper than we thought it was gonna be. Nullsoft should step up to the plate and figure out a way for us to make a buck.

There is a difference between SPAM and ADVERTISING. Advertising is not invasive, doesn't corrupt your computer. Nothing is free.

My site is crippled, because of assholes that don't have any decency. They want to screw up your computer. I don't, but I pay the bill.

Rant complete :-).

Kevin
http://webranger.net

http://webranger.net/playlist/Can%20be%20done%20Amigo%20-%20Jack%20Palance.m3u

Here watch a western, I like this movie.

[ravetrax]

Originally posted by retrostation
So, Here's a challenge:

As for the alternate YP, Let's boogie.

have you seen www.echo34.com yet?

[retrostation]

amen.

rockouthippie is right.

Ever seen the scene in blazing saddles.....

"Howard Johnson is right!"