Volume equalizing.. need a good plugin

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Can someone recommend the best plugin for volume equalizing in Winamp. I'm getting annoyed by songs that are really low and then hearing some songs that are really loud.

That's all I need, thanks in advance for the help.

[Wavestreaming]

Do a search on the plugins section :)


...This also isn't really related to shoutcast, is it?

[siebe83]

Some good ones...
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=187768

[gaekwad2]

Replaygain/MP3Gain > *

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Originally posted by Wavestreaming
Do a search on the plugins section :)


...This also isn't really related to shoutcast, is it?

I thought I put it in Winamp Tech? Wow, I must have been really tired lastnight.

Thanks Siebe and Gaekwad.

[tuckerm]

hmm...blueprint posts..he attracks gaekwad2..ive never seen gaekwad2 here at all..blueprint..watch out you have a stalker!

[gaekwad2]

Nah, I saw the topic in the new posts list and had to take the opportunity to pimp replaygain. :p

[MegaRock]

Originally posted by gaekwad2
pimp replaygain. :p

Winamp's own Huggy Bear!

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Hahah.. you people make me laugh sometimes...

Anyway, the only ReplayGain site I can find only has the plugin for Winamp 2 & 3.. not 5:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~walterln/replaygain/

Is replaygain and mp3gain the same? If so nevermind because I have this link:

http://mp3gain.sourceforge.net/index.php

Anyway, this makes me nervous:

Use it at your own risk, and I'd suggest backing up your files first.

Yeah it's talking about AAC, but still - does it actually modify your files? Because i've been reading parts of the site and it's giving me that impression...

EDIT:

Nevermind I think i've gathered what this does. Pretty good tool. Sure beats some crappy plugin that would probably just distort the way the files playback.

[siebe83]

Just for your information... Winamp 2 IS Winamp 5. Winamp 5 has just more features and stuff but it's the same core so almost all Winamp 2 plugins will work in Winamp 5 (except for some plugins having issues with modern skins and some others that need updating).

[gaekwad2]

And the difference between MP3Gain and replaygain is that MP3Gain changes the volume of the files whereas replaygain only adds tags and requires a plugin that's able to read them (eg. in_mpg123), the advantage of replaygain is that you can select album or track gain or even disable it completely on playback.

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Oh I see..

Yeah I don't know about editing the actual file itself.. I just get the feeling i'll do something to permentantly mess up all my songs :(

[likearock]

I'm confused...are you trying to find a real time equalizer? Or a real time normalizer? An equalizer changes the sound, a normalizer makes all volume DB levels near the same between songs.

I thought I saw a multiband dynamics processor for winamp...that would be my choice. I'm not sure where to find it though, I use winamp to listen not broadcast :D

[siebe83]

Well, you could test a bit with a few songs for a start...
I adjusted all my mp3's with MP3gain a long time ago, and I had no problems except for a few files which in the end turned out to be corrupt (which were downloaded or copied from a friend, I don't remember). But even for those files MP3gain didn't mess them up, it just couldn't process them.
Also: you can undo any changes to your files if you tell MP3gain to store the info in the ID3-tag.

As gaekwad said, Replay Gain is probably a bit safer since it will only affect playback when and how you tell it to.

I used MP3gain since I wasn't aware of the Replay Gain option back then. But I actually like the fact I never need to think about it again: the volume levels are just as I want them whenever I play them in whatever player.


@likearock:
A real time normalizer would also get rid of volume changes inside one track, i.e. get rid of the dynamics in a song (whereas Replay Gain/MP3gain will adjust the volume for the song as a whole). Or maybe that is what you want? If so, there's some plugins listed in the thread I linked to above.
Anyway, I think he's talking about normalizing, and not equalizing...

[gaekwad2]

Originally posted by The Blueprint
Oh I see..

Yeah I don't know about editing the actual file itself.. I just get the feeling i'll do something to permentantly mess up all my songs :(
That danger doesn't really exist.
The way MP3Gain changes the file is completely lossless and can be reversed.

It simply changes the volume information without ever touching the information that 'describes how the music sounds'.

edit: http://img168.exs.cx/img168/3954/snail8hz.png

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Alot of good information. One more question:

What's with this clipping thing with Mp3Gain? Alot of mixtapes (they are more or less rap records, but different - i'm too lazy to explain) I download have a lower volume, whereas most CD's I rip (or download) tend to have a big higher volumes.

Mp3Gain says that the mixtape songs are around 88 - 91 Db's whereas the albums are around 97 - 102 Db's.. and in order to bring them all around the same Db level it would have to clip. What does that mean?

[djSpinnerCee]

The dB Average is just that...

A CD is digitally encoded from the start, so all of the work has already been done when the CD was mastered, this is why the ripped MP3 is very close to perfect.

A mixtape, expecially one that came from a dolby encoded audio tape can have such a great range between the loudest and softest sections, that to raise the softer sections would cause the louder sections to be overmodulated and thus "clipped" -- be aware that analog audio tape can actually survive some over modulation without clipping, and metal and high-bias magnetic tape was made to do so. Overmodulation here = audible distortion.

Digital encoding is non-compromising in that regard -- no distortion only happens because over-modulation is ignored (cannot be represented technically) --- so sharp peaks become square topped hills -- this usually can be "heard" as a muddy sound, as different levels and frequencies come together -- it's not really as bad as distortion, but clipping means that the converted file will have "loss."

Mp3gain applies a fixed value (up or down) to the whole file -- (provides + or - gain only) it does not really "normalize" by softening the loudest and raising the softest spots so that the overall average level is consistent.

One way you can fix this for mixtapes is to record/master them through the line-in and pay close attention to the VU and make minor adjustments as it encodes. not the best way.

After, I would use CoolEdit -- it allows you to make minor changes to sections of the digital "wave" that can be smoothed in, so that they a nearly imperceptable -- I think it also has a real normalize feature that can analyze and tweak an audio track like the big boys.

I also think that dbPowerAMP has a pretty good set of tools including the ability to record directly to MP3 from Line-In, a LAME encoder, and a normalize feature for MP3 conversions. Check it out.

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Originally posted by djSpinnerCee
The dB Average is just that...

A CD is digitally encoded from the start, so all of the work has already been done when the CD was mastered, this is why the ripped MP3 is very close to perfect.

A mixtape, expecially one that came from a dolby encoded audio tape can have such a great range between the loudest and softest sections, that to raise the softer sections would cause the louder sections to be overmodulated and thus "clipped" -- be aware that analog audio tape can actually survive some over modulation without clipping, and metal and high-bias magnetic tape was made to do so. Overmodulation here = audible distortion.

Originally posted by The Blueprint
mixtapes (they are more or less rap records, but different - i'm too lazy to explain)

Lol.. I guess I should have explained..

A mixtape is a CD.. they are just called mixtapes because the album is similar to a mix. Some tracks may be short (like one verse, or freestyles), their usually hosted by someone meaning you'll hear the host throughout the CD, kind of like a radio show. Also, beats by other artists (like singles) are used.. something you'd never see on a commercial album...

http://www.mixunit.com/
http://www.mixtapekings.com/hiphop/

Mixtape is something that you'll only hear in hip hop.. so my bad for not explaining what they were. But I wasn't talking about audio cassettes. Who still uses those? :p

[djSpinnerCee]

Well, the real point is that those CDs are almost certainly mastered from an analog mixer, so unless the "producer" paid real close attention to the levels, it is likely that there are portions that are totally maxxed out (possible already clipped), and other sections that are too soft. Hip-Hop energy also plays into this, especially if the loFreq (bass) has been enhanced by EQ, it will not be "loud" when crisp highs are also in play.

Just like you're saying -- you have break beats and songs and a great range of volumes on what is often the same track -- unless they are mastered together or with great care, their volume rages will vary a great deal -- a normal digital recording, can only accomodate the loudest of the loud to prevent clipping. The point is, the problem is the same -- simply adding gain to such a track will incur a loss via clipping, on the loudest sections of the track.

*** Hey :) *** I make mixtape CDs and MP3s too, so I know what you mean, lol -- I was probably making them before you were born, and yes, we did use "tape." -- we also used those "big black CDs" and turntables, like my kids call em. :) ***

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Originally posted by djSpinnerCee
Well, the real point is that those CDs are almost certainly mastered from an analog mixer

No, it's just there aren't as many people ripping these mixtapes as with commercial CD's, so with the rare ones it's harder to get a decent rip if the only available one is one made of poor quality.

However, if you take a mixtape like DJ Kay Slay's 'NYC Drama', it's nothing to get a nice high-quality rip that sounds excellent throughout the whole thing. In fact, most of the newer releases sound good. Only a few of these are crappy, and like I said, it's the people who are doing the ripping - not the CD itself

But yes, on occaision i've heard a few that sounded like they were analog rips (especially ones that contain live freestyles or radio freestyles).

Originally posted by djSpinnerCee
Just like you're saying -- you have break beats and songs and a great range of volumes on what is often the same track -- unless they are mastered together or with great care, their volume rages will vary a great deal -- a normal digital recording, can only accomodate the loudest of the loud to prevent clipping. The point is, the problem is the same -- simply adding gain to such a track will incur a loss via clipping, on the loudest sections of the track.

I have no idea what your talking about here.. I just no clue what your saying exactly because i'm not good with technical audio information :(.

you have break beats and songs and a great range of volumes on what is often the same track

Break beats? Great range of volumes on the same track? See what I mean, confusion for me..

Originally posted by djSpinnerCee
*** Hey :) *** I make mixtape CDs and MP3s too, so I know what you mean, lol -- I was probably making them before you were born, and yes, we did use "tape." -- we also used those "big black CDs" and turntables, like my kids call em. :) ***

Lol..

No, i'm sure you can define mixtape better than I could :p.. but mixtape in rap isn't exactly a 'mixtape'. Obviously there is the actual medium, but you can still have mix CD's.. It comes down to what's actually on it. If I were to make a mix CD it would have mp3's from a bunch of different records - so yes the volumes would differ.

But with a commercial mixtape, the tracks are mastered unlike a mixtape you or I would make, and in alot of cases are tracks by the same artist. Using NYC Drama as an example again, all the tracks are within 1 or 2 Db's of 98.. but the tracks are all from various artists. Whereas an older G Unit mixtape sounds like garbage...

we also used those "big black CDs" and turntables, like my kids call em. :) ***

Lol.. I know what those are.. don't forget it's hip hop I listen to :p...

[djSpinnerCee]

It'a a generation gap here , lol, but here's what you do:

Ignore the warning from mp3gain about the clipping, it's just a warning, and listen to the converted "gained" MP3 -- do several -- The effect of the clipping that is done may not be perceptable to you at all, more importantly, remember that you are gonna re-encode the source to a lower bitrate/quality anyway, right? At that point, you could probably never know the difference -- the only thing I would suggest is not replacing the originals at all, just make sure to make a note, either in the ID tag of the converted file or its filename that it has been tweaked for broadcast -- don't let the "Fear" stop you from trying - it may work perfectly well for you.

Just do it :)

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LMAO..

We're getting all sorts of miscommunications here.

I don't broadcast.. I accidently put this in SHOUTcast tech instead of Winamp tech.. so yeah, anyway..

When you say:

Remember that you are gonna re-encode the source to a lower bitrate/quality anyway, right?

Like I said, not for shoutcast, for me, all for me!... :p So i'm not lowering the quality at any point.

As for fear.. I fear nothing! :D

No seriously, I just want to have to waste a huge ammount of time by trying to recover all my mp3's after messing them up - but I see now that it probably won't happen so no more worries there.

Anyway, djSpinnerCee - I do thank you for all the help you've been trying to give me though.. even if i'm too clueless as to how to make use of it :p.

So how's NYC? :)