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dj_humpyg
28th October 2006, 10:32
Hi,

I wanted to be able to stream 10 tracks on my website, they wouldn't be available for download, just to listen to but then I thought this would be illegal.

Then I came across the SHOUTcast. I'm confused as to what's legal/illegal.

If I setup a SHOUTcast and visitors could stream that, then are they allowed to, since the MP3s I'd be playing would be subject to copyright etc.

For instance, I came across this website <http://nunzioweb.com/jukebox.shtml> which is perfect for what I want, but again, not sure if this is legal/illegal.

Can anyone help?

Thanks,
DJ.

Nick@ss
28th October 2006, 10:53
if the station owner has the relevant licenses its legal.

the risk is down to the individual as to wether they license their station or not.

check http://www.ludcity.net for more licensing information

dj_humpyg
28th October 2006, 11:02
Do you mean if I legally own the 10 tracks I'm playing, then everyone else who listens to it is doing so legally?

I presume I don't need to pay no licensee fees etc, like a normal radio station would?

Nick@ss
28th October 2006, 11:05
if you re playing music that has a copyright then you need a license to stream it legally.

you may own the 10 tracks but you dont have the rights to broadcast them.

if you are doing a talk show then you dont need a license

there is a lot of unsigned music out there and you can play that with the owners permissions.

hackerdork
28th October 2006, 14:46
just becasue your OWN the music/cd doesnt give you the right to broadcast to the public. The laws are different in every country, the USA has several groups that control the digital rights e.g RIAA, FCC whatever.

shoutcast is NOT the license holder, but looking at www.loudcity.com you can find info on this subject, GOOGLE, or your local library.

~ D

sputnik radio
1st November 2006, 00:11
You could always just go with a company that offers licensing and stream hosting all in one package. Recently I signed up with http://www.webradioworld.com/index.htm

and have been covered under their world wide license. They are the only company that is currently offering world wide licensing. Plus their shoutcast hosting plans cant be beat.

Believe me I searched long and hard to find a solution and now I have.

Nick@ss
1st November 2006, 19:36
im incredibly suspect about this as it doesnt mention licensing of any kind on their site or anything about pricing.

im not host bashing im just curious to see how they can get a world license when there are no agreements between the major internet licensing bodies like ria/sesac/ppl/mcprsuk let alone companies we have never seen or head of before.

im sure if these people were genuine then they would be pushing this in a big way.

make sure you have done your homework as most of the licensees are well known and will only license their own territories.

it would be interesting to see a little more info as the link is broken to their plans

sputnik radio
2nd November 2006, 16:42
Originally posted by nick@ss
im incredibly suspect about this as it doesnt mention licensing of any kind on their site or anything about pricing.

im not host bashing im just curious to see how they can get a world license when there are no agreements between the major internet licensing bodies like ria/sesac/ppl/mcprsuk let alone companies we have never seen or head of before.

im sure if these people were genuine then they would be pushing this in a big way.

make sure you have done your homework as most of the licensees are well known and will only license their own territories.

it would be interesting to see a little more info as the link is broken to their plans

Not sure how they have it all worked out. But I assure you they have been to europe several times negotiating this licensing. If you are suspect I recommend you contact them and ask them yourself.

I've been with them a few months now and the service and support is excellent. They have gone through extremes to ensure the integrity of thier network. Unlike some other Host that I will not mention that oversold their bandwith and then had to drop me as soon as i peaked to 100 concurrent listenrs.

Nick@ss
2nd November 2006, 16:58
to be honest im not suspect enough to contact them as i have no real interest my only concerns people may not be protected as well as they think they are,

im not casting slanderous dispersions but merely making sure you have all your angles covered if you are paying for a world wide license that not many have heard of before.

on the other hand i could be completely wrong and they may be 100% genuine but im not saying either way just be careful and make sure your not wasting cash.

a few emails checking stuff out is allways worth a go just to be sure.

sputnik radio
2nd November 2006, 17:01
Originally posted by nick@ss
to be honest im not suspect enough to contact them as i have no real interest my only concerns people may not be protected as well as they think they are,

im not casting slanderous dispersions but merely making sure you have all your angles covered if you are paying for a world wide license that not many have heard of before.

on the other hand i could be completely wrong and they may be 100% genuine but im not saying either way just be careful and make sure your not wasting cash.

a few emails checking stuff out is allways worth a go just to be sure.

Well he used to be covered under BMI the world wide licensing is something New that he has arranged over the last few months. Its New so that may be why you never heard of it.

I sent him an email asking him more details so i could provide you with them . I will let you know what i find out.

Nick@ss
2nd November 2006, 17:14
ok but as mentioned im not looking for proof but you should be.

if it were me i would be looking for the international agreements and who they are between as world coverage is a lot of agreements.

WebRadioWorld
2nd November 2006, 21:35
Hello to nick@ass I am here to make some clarification on the multi country PPL license set up for Web Radio World.

I can confirm what Sputnik Radio has said we have secured the exclusive rights to offer this royalties licensing only which is actually called a “Extended Territory”.

No it’s not mentioned on our website yet as we are still working out reporting procedures as you can expect are a monster and we wanted to have it right before we went public with it.

We have been in negotiations with Matt McAleer at PPL UK (Broadcast Licensing Executive Rights Negotiation PPL / VPL)for several month on this license for online radio stations. Our main concern presently is being able to keep records to the standards required.

We are also currently in negotiations with MCPS-PRS for the same type of extended Territory license.

Next year we are looking at meeting with the BIG 5 record companies, the RIAA and others in light of getting an standardized Online Broadcasters license produced. We are hoping that we will be able to announce next year that we will have flat rate monthly fees affordable by all, which will be specifically for online broadcasters with under 1000 listeners.

I am not writing this post to prove anything to nick@ass and I am quite amused at his postings and being sceptical, but then again I can sort of understand, with companies like Live365 and loud city who are selling nothing, you’re not legal with either of these licenses. As mentioned here in this forum you actually need 2 licenses. And for those that do have them are only covered in the USA or the UK. It’s a scam if you ask me.

This is why there is no mention on our website as we want to have both parts in place and have the proper recording methods. It’s a huge job and it takes time but when it roles out it will change then online broadcasting industry allowing everyone to be licensed and the record companies, artists and composers to make a lot of money from us streaming their music.

If you have any questions about this or about licensing in general feel free to message me or email.

Daniel Brewington
CEO
dan.brewington@webradioworld.com

sputnik radio
3rd November 2006, 00:55
yeah what he said.:)

Nick@ss
3rd November 2006, 06:18
A very nice pitch,

you speak a lot of what you are doing but not of what you have done and confirmed.

you seem dead set on proving to me that this is all above board and legit when it makes no difference to me, i was merely advising that if it were me i would be ensuring if i were paying someone to keep me legal that they are doing what they say.

you have nothing to prove to me but if someone were to put a lawsuit on you lap can you honestly say hand on heart that you have done your homework and are covered and can prove to them the host is legit.

from the post above it looks like theres a lot of negotiating going on and not any agreements made.

a post in these forums does not satisfy my curiosity and the only thing that would is confirmation from the licensing companies them selves confirming my questions.

as mentioned in my earlier post.
it may well be all legal and above board and i am not suggesting otherwise and i wish you all the best with your ventures.



ps . apologies to the thread starter as it was never my intention to take over the thread,

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 12:00
Hi Nick@ss

Let me reassure you with regard to the PPL licence at Web Radio World, as I am a Director of the company and the man responsible for negotiating the licence directly.

Most world licencing agencies are in agreement that the Internet is very hard to Police, but many agencies are now trying to pursue broadcasters who illegally use music on what are effectively "pirate stations".

PPL have agreed therefore to provide Web Radio World with a global cover licence thta allow our clients to broadcast anywhere in the world LEGALLY! The cost averages at around £15 per month payable by Direct Debit. However this price is reflective of your listener hours, so when you thousands of listeners, the PPL rate increases pro-rate.

MCPS/PRS are negotaiting with us for a similar deal at the moment.

PPL covers record company royalties whereas MCPS/PRS Alliance covers songwriters and Producers - and you need BOTH licences.

We have a BMI world licence at the moment alongside PPL which currently covers the North America area.

Finally, companies like LoudCity and Live365 as I understand it, are NOT world legal. Their licences only cover specific territories and you are at risk of legal action if you broadcast outside of those territories on their licences.

I hope that clarifies the position

Ross Hemsworth
UK Group Managing Director
Web Radio World
www.webradioworld.com
Streaming from US$20 a month!!

Dredd
3rd November 2006, 14:35
Hi Ross & Freinds,

How wonderful to see you sputtering nonsense on this forum too.

The “World Wide License” is a fabrication of the PPL.

Anyone that does not have to operate under the PPL should think twice about getting this kind of license, because it’s completely meaningless to you, particularly if you are in the US.

You will not find any US broadcasters (other than a few that WRW snake oiled), large or small, paying the PPL directly because they know it’s wrong and they refuse to over pay royalties.

For US broadcasters the net result is you are paying for royalties twice, through both SoundExchange and the PPL. SoundExchange already gives the PPL money for applicable performances. If you are located in the US you are going to need a SoundExchange license, no exceptions.

How the money moves for international broadcasts is a complicated subject and one that is to be solved by rights organizations working together, not a lone rights organization passing a hat around and/or threatening international law suits.

If you aren’t under the jurisdiction of the PPL you should not get involved with them. Bad ideas gain legitimacy everytime someone signs a poorly written contract, so again, don’t get involved unless you have to answer directly to the PPL. They need to go through the proper channels to collect money, just as we have to go through the proper channels to broadcast.

Check out this article about the PPL threatening to sue every broadcaster on the planet. In short they expect every web caster in the world to answer to UK law. Is this the mindset you want to support?

http://technology.guardian.co.uk/weekly/story/0,,1766532,00.html

P.S.

I can’t speak for Live365, but they are a DiMA member, as is LoudCity. We both access to the best legal advice regarding webcasting. If this PPL thing were a legitimate issue there would be a lot more buzz about it.

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 14:51
Oh dear another haunting from another forum you sad stalker!

The PPL WORLWIDE LICENCE is so called because PPL are the only licencing agency in the world to be able to currently offer a FULL world licence.

LoudCity and Live365 are NOT legal when their transmissions are outside the USA, and anyone who believes otherwise should contact the relevant licencing authorities or the RIAA. I met with the head of PPL only a few weeks ago and HE told me that!!!!

http://www.riaa.com/default.asp

I would pose the question of our competitors that "are you maybe a little worried by our strong licencing position and your potential loss of custmers to the more legal Web Radio World??"

Ross Hemsworth
UK Group Managing Director
Web Radio World Ltd
www.webradioworld.com

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 15:00
I would also add, that we not only ALLOW advertising on Web Radio World (unlike Live365) but we positively encourage it and share income across the stations we host.

I believe that when we have 500 stations with a large cross demographic audience, we will be able to help our clients fund their stations and expansion by their cut of that potentially sizeable advertising revenue.

We may not all like running adverts, but we ALL need the income that advertising produces if we are to expand and grow!

We want to HELP our clients grow and earn from their projects.

Ross Hemsworth
UK Group Managing Director
Web Radio World Ltd
www.webradioworld.com

dotme
3rd November 2006, 15:03
So is this basically a spam thread now?
Originally posted by WebRadioWorld
...with companies like Live365 and loud city who are selling nothing, you’re not legal with either of these licenses....It’s a scam if you ask me.
If you showed that statement to your attorney, I'd bet he would be rubbing his hands in delight.

I'm no legal expert, but it seems to me you may have just maligned Live365. Your lawyer's going to get rich defending you when their attorneys file a suit against your company for making false and defamatory statements against their business in a public forum. Bet their pockets are deeper than yours... Good luck with that.

sputnik radio
3rd November 2006, 15:13
wheres my popcorn.

Dredd
3rd November 2006, 15:17
Ross,

The forum I'm referring to is the LoudCity forum. You know, the one where we gave you permission to advertise your services, then politely asked you not to cross post, then you threw a tantrum…so we got a little heavy handed after that.

Of course the head of the PPL told you this is how it is, they want money, and of course the RIAA says your have to seek rights internationally. It's not their place to say they own the world, nor is the PPL’s place to arbitrarily start collecting performances from any webcaster in the world.

The real question is who is going to administer such rights. The solution is more concrete international laws and rights organizations working closer together.

I have the PPL contracts here in front of me and for a US broadcaster they far from fair, full of holes, potentially far more expensive than SoundExchange and above all meaningless. As I said the PPL already gets money from US licensed webcasters, we aren’t paying them twice.

Pump out all the static you want. The reality of the situation is what it is. US webcasters are currently ok.

sputnik radio
3rd November 2006, 15:21
Oh i get it now.

This is a us against uk thing.

I was wondering what was going on.

dotme
3rd November 2006, 15:29
Originally posted by sputnik radio
wheres my popcorn.
Hey Sputnik - How ya doin? ;)

I think ultimately, you do have to answer to the authorities in the country you live in. PPL is maybe a bit unrealistic when it comes to rates and what they believe to be their jurisdiction. As a UK company, they really don't get to control US markets - as much as I'm sure they'd like to.

As long as a webcaster pays royalties, what's the problem? Is the same music sent to an Englishman's ears somehow worth more than if heard by an American? What about an Englishman who tunes in from the USA? Or an American tuning in from the UK?

If the PPL object to overseas streams entering the UK, maybe they should petition the British government to force UK ISPs to filter them out. That's what China does, isn't it? Perhaps the UK should become like China and prevent it's citizens from being able to access content from overseas.

Licensing web streams by territory is frought with problems, because even the best GeoIP database isn't 100% accurate. The industry is its own worst enemy. It's so complicated and expensive that - let's face it - 99% of the streamers are totally unlicensed. The best way for these societies to change that are to back off on the greed, and the paperwork. The result, for them, would be a drastic increase in compliance and revenue...

I hope this thread doesn't deteriorate into a slamming match, because that does nothing to further webcasting, legal or otherwise.

sputnik radio
3rd November 2006, 15:30
i looks like i stirred up the hornets nest. My apologies to the original poster.

In my opinion it's all bass ackwards.

Arist should be paying us to play their damned music. So they can cell CD's and what not.

The whole world is backwards of how it should be. You talk about rights? What about my Right to be a broadcaster and not have to shell out every dime I have to do it? what about that right? why do the rights always benifit the ass holes with all the money?

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 15:39
Hi Dotme - where did you get that quote from, becauyse I can't see to find the original posting?

Ross

dotme
3rd November 2006, 15:43
Originally posted by sputnik radio
My apologies to the original poster.

In my opinion it's all bass ackwards.

Arist should be paying us to play their damned music. So they can cell CD's and what not.

The whole world is backwards of how it should be. You talk about rights? What about my Right to be a broadcaster and not have to shell out every dime I have to do it? what about that right? why do the rights always benifit the ass holes with all the money?

No argument from me. And also apologies to the original poster. This thread got totally hijacked. lol.

Originally posted by nomadrush
Hi Dotme - where did you get that quote from, becauyse I can't see to find the original posting?

Ross

Hi Ross

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?postid=2055467#post2055467

Paragraph 7 :)

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 15:46
Dredd

I don't think I threw any tantrums, altough I have kept all the communications from your heavy-handed somewhat one sided forum moderators!

Facts are facts Dredd, and I look forward to the soon to come first UK court action against a US Internet broadcaster by the UK based collection agency MCPS/PRS which will set the court precedent for future law.

The regionalisation of collection agencies makes it very difficult if not impossible for them to currently police worldwide broadcasters, so it's no wonder they all want to do business with US as we have the software in place NOW to handle collection information for them and report accordingly. This makes their job a lot easier.

I understand your reluctance to agree with me as a competitor, but perhaps if you could prove your are legal we may be interested in buying your company!

dotme
3rd November 2006, 15:59
Originally posted by nomadrush
The regionalisation of collection agencies makes it very difficult if not impossible for them to currently police worldwide broadcasters, so it's no wonder they all want to do business with US as we have the software in place NOW to handle collection information for them and report accordingly. This makes their job a lot easier.
Well, that's great - but I still don't understand how you know for sure where a listener is from. GeoIP isn't accurate, and what about an American tourist tuning in from Paris, France? Who gets the royalties for that person? It's okay if you don't want to answer that. I was just curious.

I also don't think I understand why an artist would receive different compensation for use of their work based on the nationality of the ears that hear it. Maybe I'm dense - it is Friday after all - but I simply don't get the justification for that.

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 16:07
Hi Dotme

This is one of the main reasons that regional collection agencies have been slow to negotiate with other worldwide agencies, because very few know excatly how to Police this large international network with so many independent broadcasters. It is true to say that IP addresses do not always show the correct country, so it is far from an exact science.

That said, PPL have now negotiated such an agreement with other licensing agencies worldwide, on the basis of a 75% report and collection is better than no collection at all, and our softwrae allows us to submit such a report monthly, quarterly and annually as required.

Let's face it, FM stations are geolocked yet KMFM in Kent can be picked up in a car in France but who would know and who would report it? Even if they did, how could the French collection agency prove someone was actually listening in their licence territory?

It's still a very grey area, but together with the licensing agencies, it is my belief that Web Radio World is probably making the best advances to date.

Ross

dotme
3rd November 2006, 16:21
Wow - I just read that Guardian article.

the PPL's rate for web-only broadcasters (that is, not traditional radio stations simulcasting their output) is .000503p per listener per track per stream. It sounds cheap, but Tom Lousada, founder of the Association of Streaming Media Companies (Asmec), points out that a web-only station with 5,000 listeners would be paying approximately £1.7m in rights fees annually, an economic model that is clearly not sustainable.

Holy shit! They must be taking some wicked drugs there at the PPL. No wonder there are so many webcasters that pay no royalties at all.

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 16:35
Hi again Dotme

Like most licencing agencies they have now realised that they need to judge Internet stations differently and now look at a rate based on "streaming listener hours" so some stations like my "Net Talk World" pay as little as £120 a year in PPL rates as they have limited music output and relatively small audiences. However that will grow significantly over the next 12 - 18 months.

That said, most of the online stations I know struggle to hit 100 listeners per show, so none of those need to be paying over £100 a year individually.

MCPS/PRS however are still currently charging on an amount up to 20% of advertising revenue income as well as a listner numbers rate and they know that this HAS to change.

At the moment many stations stay illegal because they think they are untouchable, but that again, will change very soon and a few scapegoats will be made to pay the price in court, so that the agencies can "frighten others" into joining up! This happened a while back with music downloading that shut down various sites who were offering free music downloads.

Trouble is, copyright theft is a CRIMINAL offence not a civil offence and this means that those "scapegoats" may face a custodial term if the courts decide to make examples of them!

Ross

Dredd
3rd November 2006, 16:56
Sounds like you have everything covered.

http://indy.50megs.com/images/Dr%20Evil.jpg

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 17:06
Yes Dredd we do, although your tagline on your signature could be deemed as very legally misleading!

dotme
3rd November 2006, 17:11
I tend to agree with Sputnik. People invest their time and money to create a station that essentially in most cases promotes artists and leads to album sales.

Most stations operate at a loss - viewed as a hobby, not a business. If a station shows they made the effort to do the right thing, obtained the necessary licenses in their country, and paid royalties as required under their local laws, I'd be shocked if any judge or jury would find in favor of the plaintiff. Not when there are so many stations that don't bother even trying to be legit at all.

What's next? Maybe the PPL will be telling you not to turn your stereo up, because if the neighbors hear it, you'll have to pay royalties. Better keep those car windows rolled up too... or you'll owe money for the bloke at the last intersection who heard 35 seconds of "Shake ya ass" as you made that left turn.

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 17:16
By the way - thanks Sputnik Radio for telling people how great our service is - much appreciated! We endeavour to offer the very best service 24/7.

Our services mean that single operators can stream online from just US$5 a month - now i'd say THAT is "affordable"! (And that includes our free starter package!!) So perhaps we should have the right to use "affordable" on OUR tag line lol!

WebRadioWorld
3rd November 2006, 17:18
I have to agree with dotme, PPL is just going too far.
And technical if you are playing your music loud enough and it can be heard in a public place and other people are listening to it don't you have to pay?

sputnik radio
3rd November 2006, 17:25
well I know one thing. Internet radio is not going away . And I think if WRW can break new ground in bringing forth global licensing in some fashion then I say thats great. I have no problems with any company that is trying to push the envelope and to transform the way internet radio is managed. Kudos to anyone that can manage to do it.

as far as the comment about somebody hearing your music and then them having to pay royalites I look at it like this. A Listener to me constitutes a device that is recieving the transmission. Thats the way I view it anyway. I could listen to a broacast in a room full of people.

Also it works both ways. what if you where listening to the same broadcast on two devices which filled 2 listner slots but only one person was listening.

That is one of those grey areas and until precedent is set Im not too worried about it.

The agencies that regulate licensing are going to have to eventually globalize under one license. Who the hell wants to just broadcast to US listners? Not me.

Most of my listeners are from germany , poland and russia

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 17:27
Well to be honest I agree with that too - it's all a step to far which is why I have had to "educate" the licencing agencies in a way, to understand the plight of the Internet broadcaster.

Most online stations are currently small one man operations with very little budget, and many WANT to be legal but just can't afford to be, which is why we offer the monthly Direct Debit to ease the cost, something even PPL don't do, with a direct licence you have to pay quarterly in advance!

Licence agencies have to understand that sometimes 75% of the cake is better than no cake at all!

Ross

NJK
3rd November 2006, 17:37
it's a giant soap bubble if you ask me
a world wide license???

come on , what's next prove that santa claus really is living on the northpole??

we can't even agree on a world wide deal on the enviroment.
laws about streaming copyrighted material are different from country to country.
while they hardly pay anything in Canada , the UK sucks broadcaster almost dry.
and we have to believe that such a thing can be handled world wide.

WebRadioWorld
3rd November 2006, 17:44
Your thinking local and that Gov'ts own the copyrights they don't. You don't need to get the countries to agree you only need to get the Big Record companies to agree.

Because when it comes down to it, this is all about them and nothing else. Don't lose sight of who gets the cash in the end.

Do you think Sony cares if it gets money from the UK, US, China or Chile? I doubt it I bet they just want their money.

nomadrush
3rd November 2006, 17:47
Hi Spaceplay

I agree with the point you are making, but at the end of the day whether its a little or a lot, someone HAS to pay, that's the very reason these agencies exist to collect what is owed to their members, and whether we like it or not, most of us want to remain on the right side of the law. After all if you were a musician/singer/songwriter, your view of this matter would be very different I am sure.

It's not going to be easy - but that's the challenge for us really isn't it! If WE can set the rules before the rulemakers try to enforce one upon us, then we win and they don't!

Ross

NJK
3rd November 2006, 20:15
i take it you are not talking to either
buma/stemra or sena at the moment??
Dutch broadcasters have to pay to them
as well as the agencies in Belgium , Germany, France, Spain , Norway, Sweden, Finland, Danmark, Poland, Hungary, Italy, etc etc etc etc etc etc

if you only talk to US and UK agencies it's NOT world wide.

I like a challange as much as the next man but i live in a real world were i pay each month to the dutch agencies and i don't see it comming that i can fork over only 15 dollars a month and am homefree


ps. besides being a DJ , running 2 stations i am also making my own music , being a program director for a real AM station so I know quite a lot about this topic.
I work both sides of the fence and trust me if i say that I don't won't to burst the bubble you created , but it's all very unlikely to happen within my time that i have left on this planet

it's more likely that world peace might become real than your idea.

WebRadioWorld
3rd November 2006, 22:17
I hate to say this spaceplay but again you are thinking too local, you think you owe the agencies set up in your countries.

YOU DONT, you owe the record companies mainly the people listed here by the RIAA http://www.riaa.com/about/members/default.asp

Those are the people to whom we own the money to. buma/stemra , Loud City, BMI PPL they all pay these guys, the just make money off us being the middle man.

ON another note one of these days all of us online broadcasters will get off our ass and we will realize that we need to work together and stop working against each other.

I have been in this business, very successfully I might add, since 1999 and I have to say many of you are cut throat SOBs not caring about anything but what goes in your pocket.

That’s a damn shame and shame on you, I don't need to mention names because you all know who you are.

There are people out here with stations working damn hard to stay on the right side of the law and your main concern is how much can I charge them for hosting or how much can I rape them for royalties.

When then industry pulls together one day we will get further in 1 year then we have in the last 8 years.

But that’s just my view and hey I am allowed it ;)

NJK
4th November 2006, 08:55
Originally posted by WebRadioWorld
I hate to say this spaceplay but again you are thinking too local, you think you owe the agencies set up in your countries.


If i think outside my country and DON'T pay the agencies in MY country
i end up in front of a judge that is giving me a FINE that I have to pay in the Netherlands.

No matter what record companies are involved or what are not

that is the reality i have to face everyday
now it's perfectly okay in my book to look over a border

but at the end of the day , there isn't anybody outside the Netherlands who gives a damn about me paying royalties or not.

Do you honestly think that a major record company in the USA gives a f*** about a small station like mine?????

but I wish you all the luck and won't stand in your way
it's natural to chase a dream.

i'd rather be awake and face what is real.

nomadrush
4th November 2006, 10:26
Spaceplay

Which part of "WORLWIDE LICENCE" don't you understand?

The UK licencing agency PPL have agreed a deal with the agencies in each country around the world including Holland, and the royalty payment they receive from us is divided and sent to each participating country, so you could NOT be sued by the Dutch licencing authority!!!

I'm really not sure how much clearer I can make this without sending diagrams! lol

NJK
4th November 2006, 11:51
Originally posted by nomadrush
Spaceplay

Which part of "WORLWIDE LICENCE" don't you understand?



that would mean each and every agency in the world has to agree with you
which means you have to talk to each of those agencies

and that mr CAPS WORLD WIDE isn't going to happen in a million years.

but by all means keep dreaming.

nomadrush
4th November 2006, 11:57
Spaceplay

Before getting all arrogant and throwing your dummy out of your pram - go back and read the previous postings!!!

It's is PPL have that have negotiated with all other similar licencing agencies around the world not us! They have all come together and agreed that a world licence is the easiest way forward for online stations.

But hey Spaceplay - you go pay your money to the Dutch agency direct and broadcast over there only, because to be honest, I don't think i'd want you as a customer anyway after the above comments! I'll let PPL know that you are only licenced in Holland so that if they hear your station here in the UK they can take whatsoever action they may feel is necessary!

bored_womble
4th November 2006, 11:59
having read this thread, and having been party to negotiations with PPL and MCPS/PRS I am myself a little sceptical about a 'World Wide License' and not entirely for the reasons other people have given.

If you manage to get it off the ground good luck ( if not up and running already). My experience of the licensing agencies is that PPL is good and have pragmatic, but defined method, whereas MCPS/PRS are just a joke so perhaps this will help broadcasters get something they need and move the agency along into the right space.

although i have noticed that the http://www.webradioworld.com/ is erm kind of gone ... hopefully not out in the first round ?

BW

nomadrush
4th November 2006, 12:06
Womble

It is true to say that MCPS/PRS are some way behind PPL in getting the "world act" together but we are in advanced negotiations with them proposing a similar deal to that established with PPL.

As for the website, I just checked it and it was fine but i'll e-mail the webmaster just to make sure!

Ross

bored_womble
4th November 2006, 12:13
website looks more like a DNS issue as it is just giving a default 'domain maintenance' page here.

BW

dotme
4th November 2006, 12:32
Originally posted by nomadrush
It's is PPL have that have negotiated with all other similar licencing agencies around the world not us! They have all come together and agreed that a world licence is the easiest way forward for online stations.
USA and Canada are conspicuously absent from the PPL list of "Participating Countries" - Why is that? If they really aren't included, that's a pretty big hole in a "Worldwide License"
Originally posted by nomadrush
But hey Spaceplay - you go pay your money to the Dutch agency direct and broadcast over there only, because to be honest, I don't think i'd want you as a customer anyway after the above comments! I'll let PPL know that you are only licenced in Holland so that if they hear your station here in the UK they can take whatsoever action they may feel is necessary!

Wow. After the above thinly veiled threat against Spaceplay - again in an open forum - I think it's safe to say you won't have to worry about having him as a customer.

I don't understand why any company just starting out, who has admitted that they are still working on some areas of their agreements, would come on a forum frequented by station owners and issue threats against those already paying the agency in their jurisdiction royalties on 100% of their listener base. That doesn't seem to me to be a very good way to earn trust and revenue from webcasters.

My last question... and I think it's a fair question... If royalties are being paid on 100% of the listeners to whatever agency is responsible for collecting royalties in the country of jurisdiction for the station operator, and the artist/songwriter involved gets the money for ALL listeners who heard that work, please again explain to me why this is a problem for PPL?

/Begin rant

As you said earlier, we don't see PPL going after French stations that may bleed across the channel. So in fact, their previous business model has been to collect royalties from stations which operate on British soil. I don't understand why they now think they have the right to collect royalties from overseas stations - especially given that those stations (if legal) have already paid the artist for the performance to all listeners to their local reporting agency. Seems money-motivated, perhaps an attempt by PPL to make themselves more relevent - but at the end of the day, it just appears to be a scheme to double-charge. It smells like extortion - even though it may not be - and it just makes no sense. Tageting stations that already play by their local rules when so many don't pay royalties to anyone?

If the artist is getting paid, no matter which agency is collecting the royalties on behalf of the artist, the PPL should be pleased. That is, if they truly represent the interests of copyright holders.

/End of rant ;)

nomadrush
4th November 2006, 12:38
Dotme

I think I have already answered all your questions in previous postings and do not have the time or inclination to repeat what I have already said.

Ross

WebRadioWorld
4th November 2006, 13:07
Yes I am in the process up moving around the name servers to a redundent system which means it will be up and down over the next few hours. No it has not gone away LOL.

Now everyone play nice and figure out a way to work together.

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 13:17
Originally posted by dotme
USA and Canada are conspicuously absent from the PPL list of "Participating Countries" - Why is that? If they really aren't included, that's a pretty big hole in a "Worldwide License"


Wow. After the above thinly veiled threat against Spaceplay - again in an open forum - I think it's safe to say you won't have to worry about having him as a customer.

I don't understand why any company just starting out, who has admitted that they are still working on some areas of their agreements, would come on a forum frequented by station owners and issue threats against those already paying the agency in their jurisdiction royalties on 100% of their listener base. That doesn't seem to me to be a very good way to earn trust and revenue from webcasters.

My last question... and I think it's a fair question... If royalties are being paid on 100% of the listeners to whatever agency is responsible for collecting royalties in the country of jurisdiction for the station operator, and the artist/songwriter involved gets the money for ALL listeners who heard that work, please again explain to me why this is a problem for PPL?

/Begin rant

As you said earlier, we don't see PPL going after French stations that may bleed across the channel. So in fact, their previous business model has been to collect royalties from stations which operate on British soil. I don't understand why they now think they have the right to collect royalties from overseas stations - especially given that those stations (if legal) have already paid the artist for the performance to all listeners to their local reporting agency. Seems money-motivated, perhaps an attempt by PPL to make themselves more relevent - but at the end of the day, it just appears to be a scheme to double-charge. It smells like extortion - even though it may not be - and it just makes no sense. Tageting stations that already play by their local rules when so many don't pay royalties to anyone?

If the artist is getting paid, no matter which agency is collecting the royalties on behalf of the artist, the PPL should be pleased. That is, if they truly represent the interests of copyright holders.

/End of rant ;)

come on dot me. Lay off the nonsense. Nobody has threatened anyone in here. nomadrush and wrw came here to set the record straight and to defend their posistion that was being attacked here first by nick@ss. There has been a little shit slinging on both sides here I will agree but this blanket statments like that are doing noone any good. I can understand why he would not want spaceplay as a customer and I don't see his comment as a threat but more of a hypothetical situation to force spaceplay to consider the legality of his broadcast outside of holland in order to prove a point.

Hardened winamp forum veterans here obviously feel threatned by the fact that there are companies out ther offering better prices than them and finding unconventional ways to license broadcasters.

Yall need to step off and quit being so jealous of the fact that some of you cannot offer what wrw is offering.

Thats just my opinion.

Yall don't know these guys like I do. They run a tight ship and know what they are doing. Not to mention they are trying hard and making sacrafices themselves to pull this all together.

Their vision is beyond being simple overprices streamhost and I think they deserve a little more respect than to be trashed and ridiculed just because most of you don't understand what they are trying to do or you feel threatned by the compeititon.

As mentioned before Loudcity and live365 have holes in their licensing as well. There is no absolute global coverage. So whether you go with loudcity or with wrw you still have voids in the world where your licensing may or may not be scrutinized. Personally after reviewing what both LC and wrw have to offer I personally think that wrw has a lot more going on and a lot more on the back burner than LC ever thought about.

not that i got anything against LC I once used them and found them to be fine folks and they treated me just fine.

But unlike wrw they do not offer affordable hosting and licensing all in one package . Therefore I find wrw a breath of fresh air and am willing to see past these primary stages of developing this world wide licensing offer.

So yall just need to step off and stop it with all the venemous jealous behavior.

it's very unbecoming.

Nick@ss
4th November 2006, 13:35
Actually i dont remember attacking anyone i was merely suggesting that you make sure you have your bases covered.

i am certainly not jelous and if you remember me saying i wasnt particularly that bothered about it.

i have just sat back with my hand in your popcorn while you wasnt looking.

New hosts are coming to the table all the time and i wish them well and dont fear as we have enough value added services not to worry about whos killing who on bandwidth prices...

i have enough to worry about without worrying what is and isnt going on in the winamp forums.

Originally posted by nick@ss
to be honest im not suspect enough to contact them as i have no real interest my only concerns people may not be protected as well as they think they are,

im not casting slanderous dispersions but merely making sure you have all your angles covered if you are paying for a world wide license that not many have heard of before.

on the other hand i could be completely wrong and they may be 100% genuine but im not saying either way just be careful and make sure your not wasting cash.

a few emails checking stuff out is allways worth a go just to be sure.

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 13:44
Originally posted by nick@ss
Actually i dont remember attacking anyone i was merely suggesting that you make sure you have your bases covered.

i am certainly not jelous and if you remember me saying i wasnt particularly that bothered about it.

i have just sat back with my hand in your popcorn while you wasnt looking.

New hosts are coming to the table all the time and i wish them well and dont fear as we have enough value added services not to worry about whos killing who on bandwidth prices...

i have enough to worry about without worrying what is and isnt going on in the winamp forums.


Sorry nic@ss....I did not mean to imply that you where being venemous and attacking.

What i meant was that you where challenging thier posistion and they originally came to defend it and to enlighten and educate a lot of us here on what they are trying to do .

No disprespect intended to you or anyone for that matter. I just think we all need to lay aside our partialities and not look at this with such nepotism.

I personally have a vested intrest in wrw and im sure alot folks in here have a vested intrest in LC or L365. Either way we can all stand back and see that both sides here are offering a service. Whether it fits you is your personal matter but I see no need in us getting anymore divided than we need to be.

Remember it's US (the broadcasters) against THEM (the record comapanies and licensing authorities)..

Not us against each other.

Shang_Tsung
4th November 2006, 13:51
Did you say that shoutcast is unlegal service?

Nick@ss
4th November 2006, 13:54
Originally posted by Shang_Tsung
Did you say that shoutcast is unlegal service?

this made me chuckle a lot :)

shoutcast is legal but what you play on it may not be,

you need a broadcasting licence to be legal if you are playing music with a copyright..

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 13:54
Originally posted by Shang_Tsung
Did you say that shoutcast is unlegal service?

No I don't think anyone said that.

It's like owning a gun. You can on a gun legally and use the gun legally . But you can also use it ilegally as well.

That is what this discussion is basically about. The legal use of shoutcast to broadcast.

Shang_Tsung
4th November 2006, 13:57
Well thats great nick@ss.
Thanks for more detail.

Dredd
4th November 2006, 14:39
Sputnik,

There are no holes (well Ross has a couple in his head) in our service. We don't have "worldwide coverage" because we don't need it. If and when the US decides to participate in such a worldwide event we'll be there. Until then it's business as is...just like all the other US broadcasters. We're not alone in this.

You're a US broadcaster yes? What WRW doesn't work for anyone in the US. If you broadcasting in the US you are obligated to pay record label royalties and composer royalties, as do broadcasters in much of the world. There is no way around it.

WRW never mentioned composer royalties. That’s a pretty big hole for a "worldwide license".

Unless you are prepared to work out a deal with every record label in your music collection, and every composer for each song.... bear in mind that some songs have 2,3 or 4 composers. Most stations have a few thousand tracks on hand. That’s an awful lot of letter writing record keeping. It is wise to work within the bounds of rights organizations. For the US it's SoundExchange, BMI, ASCAP and SESAC. If that’s too complicated for some US broadcasters then they can join one of three broadcasting communities (Live365, SWCast or LoudCity.). Hell…if your broadcast is big enough you even have a shot at merging into 1.fm, sky.fm or Digitally Imported. They pay all expenses for broadcasters that add value to their cause.

Rights organizations exist because it’s an enormous headache to coordinate with all the copyright owners. This is a system that WRW says they are going to swoop in and replace by going direct with the copyright owners? This is a system that has worked greatly to the advantage of many copyright holders for nearly 100 years in some area. By default aren’t they saying they are going to become a rights organization themselves?

All I know about WRW so far is they publicly called us a scam and an illegal entity. What do they know? That is false. Then they accuse us of being afraid of competition when we try to clarify. Afraid of WRW? I don’t think so. We have plenty of real competition to worry about. Try lala.com, last.fm. They are the next wave. Try live365.com and virtually any other broadcaster. In a way every online broadcaster is each other’s competition. Ross, pull your head out and get with it.

Interesting enough WRW says they are “negotiating” with the PPL and “negotiating” with the MCPS/PRS but are actively doing business. Negotiating is a world apart from holding a license.

Sorry, but Swiss cheese has fewer holes than WRW.

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 15:11
hang on let me nuke some more popcorn.

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 15:20
Originally posted by Dredd
Sputnik,


You're a US broadcaster yes? What WRW doesn't work for anyone in the US. If you broadcasting in the US you are obligated to pay record label royalties and composer royalties, as do broadcasters in much of the world. There is no way around it.



Well heres the thing. I don't know what I am. In my view of my station I am an international entertainment source. My stream servers are in germany , my webhosting servers are in chile I think. Most of my listeners are in eastern europe , russia and germany. I only have a handfull of US listners to be honest. I have dejays in europe and the us and even had one in canada but i havent heard from him in a while.

Thats the problem i had at LC is that it limited me and restricted me as an international entity. Under LC i had to let go of my over seas dejays.

I don't want to be identified or labled as a US broadcaster. My target audience is the world.

NJK
4th November 2006, 16:36
I made a call to the contact person we have at BUMA /STEMRA and i placed a call to another organistation SENA

both cover the legal things on internetstreaming in the Netherlands

and guess what ,
THEY NEVER HEARD ABOUT

Ross Hemsworth
UK Group Managing Director
Web Radio World Ltd

or
about a world wide lisence

NOBODY HAS MADE CONTACT WITH EITHER ONE OF THEM FOR THIS

this can only means that somebody is lying here, and it isn't me

Ross, do yourself and us a favour, get lost , stop lying and
don't come back unless you can prove what you are saying.

oh and

because to be honest, I don't think i'd want you as a customer anyway after the above comments! I'll let PPL know that you are only licenced in Holland so that if they hear your station here in the UK they can take whatsoever action they may feel is necessary!

this really makes you look like a jackass
if i pay my royalties i can broadcast legally over the internet , anybody listening can do that free without any charge or any legal action againt him/ her
by paying my fees i am 100% legal WORLD WIDE

/ me turns away thinking that kids these days think that they are smart but ......
jeez what a retard.

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 16:46
so can you prove you made a call to this whoever guy? and can you prove to us that what you are saying is true? And can you prove that this guy you called is even in the know of whats going on?

nomadrush
4th November 2006, 17:00
Dredd

You are the only on here with any holes in his head - just by posting that you have shown yourself to be a complete idiot and i'm sure your customers will see through you for such a posting! What a coconut!

As for spaceplay - you just don't seem to be getting it do you! The Dutch agency would not know of me or Web Radio World because their deal ws done with PPL! How many more times do I have to say it before it sinks in?

Ah well. Perhaps they will all see when we launch our next package and announce the next generation of licence eh Dan? lol!

Watch this space"!

Ross
(Always one step ahead of the field!)

NJK
4th November 2006, 17:17
@ ross

last and final entry in this thread, because you turned out to be a jackass..

see post above

BOTH agencies in the Netherlands don't know shit about what you are posting here.
they haven't been contacted by anyone about this...........

and tell your doggy Sputnik that it's not me that has to prove anything here......

nomadrush
4th November 2006, 18:20
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz bored now!

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 18:22
Originally posted by nomadrush
Dredd

You are the only on here with any holes in his head - just by posting that you have shown yourself to be a complete idiot and i'm sure your customers will see through you for such a posting! What a coconut!

As for spaceplay - you just don't seem to be getting it do you! The Dutch agency would not know of me or Web Radio World because their deal ws done with PPL! How many more times do I have to say it before it sinks in?

Ah well. Perhaps they will all see when we launch our next package and announce the next generation of licence eh Dan? lol!

Watch this space"!

Ross
(Always one step ahead of the field!)

watch out now.

Thats slander.

SorceryKid
4th November 2006, 19:40
Hello:

I'm not entirely certain who "nomadrush" is, but for any business selling services on these forums, this recent outburst of unprofessionalism and pretentiousness doesn't lend much credence to their cause.

For a new company to publicly accuse two well-established competitors in the same marketplace of being illegitimate is a very heavy handed and highly presumptuous statement to make. Then to add insult to injury, the same representative closes by flaunting the tag-line "Always one step ahead of the field!".

It's curious indeed. Such childlike and arrogant conduct in the community is definitely not the type of behavior one would expect from an educated, reputable, and sincere business person that truly has something of value to offer.

Regards,

R. Krause

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 20:13
Originally posted by SorceryKid
Hello:

I'm not entirely certain who "nomadrush" is, but for any business selling services on these forums, this recent outburst of unprofessionalism and pretentiousness doesn't lend much credence to their cause.

For a new company to publicly accuse two well-established competitors in the same marketplace of being illegitimate is a very heavy handed and highly presumptuous statement to make. Then to add insult to injury, the same representative closes by flaunting the tag-line "Always one step ahead of the field!".

It's curious indeed. Such childlike and arrogant conduct in the community is definitely not the type of behavior one would expect from an educated, reputable, and sincere business person that truly has something of value to offer.

Regards,

R. Krause

back up fella.

If you go look you will see that dred started talking negatively of their business first. Do the un-professionalism you mention is not exclusive

WebRadioWorld
4th November 2006, 20:49
WOW, I have to say I didn’t expect all of this back biting and fighting when I posted the message about what we were doing. I actually never envisioned posting anything in these forums though I have been reading them for years.

Quick question why is everyone so bitter and angry towards anything different? And I mean everyone not just us or them or him or him, its everyone here. Man you wonder why licensing collection agencies have their way with us as internet broadcasters, we can’t agree on something simple never the less something as complex as international copyrights.

Personally I don’t care what you guys say about me or the company I belong too. I could careless about what you think of our accomplishments to date, whether you believe it or not, but geez why cant there be a discussion here without all the crap. Why does everyone fear new competition? Remember you were all new once in your chosen businesses. I don’t sit here thinking how I can take business from anyone, hell I have used several companies represented here and found them very good and I respect their practices.

Now my last word I guess on the Extended Territories license, it is in effect, it does exist and if you want to email me on Monday I will give you a list of the countries it covers, its no BIG secret. But YES like every other license on offer by every other company in this forum and off, it has HOLES!!!.

For those of you who have lost sight it is about the record companies, they set up these collection agencies, really visit www.riaa.com and look at the companies they represent. That’s who we are really paying its really that simple.

Yeah we can sit here and fight until the end of time but what will it solve? Is there any chance that an adult conversation can take place without everyone being aggressive or worried about their own little piece of the pie and think more about the industry? Or is that asking too much.

Again I am as guilty as the next guy in this forum over the last 2 days of not being the person I am in real life, which is calm friendly and I love to talk with people in the industry.

So what do you say? Enough crap, and if it makes everyone feel better I will say you all win and I lose. It doesn’t matter to me. What matters to me is we get as an industry what we deserve.

Well that’s all from me down here in the depths of Santiago, Chile
but its SUMMER TIME for me WOOHOOO!!!

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 21:07
Bravo.

Well said.

I think that each side of the coin here geniunely believes in their service and rightfully stands by it and I applaud that measure on both sides.

I think we should applaud any broadcaster that seeks out ways to license himself in whatever region or market he can. There are so many other stations out there that are not even trying or attempting to be legal. It's people like LC and WRW that are paving the way for us all to be able to do this without having to do all the back breaking paper work ourselves.

I suppose when my station reaches like 3 or 4 thousand listeners Im probably gonna have to get a cheaper license seeing that the PPL is only really benificial to smaller broadcasters.

However it is nice know that there are places like LC and WRW that are trying to make our jobs as broadcaster easier and legal.

And spaceplay . No offense to you . I really don't understand why your panties got all in a wad over this. Your just a broadcaster yourself and this battle has mainly been about licensing.

nomadrush
4th November 2006, 21:08
It's called jealousy Dan - they just don't like competition! lol

Sorcery - As for me being "unprofessional and arrogant" - I think if you scan back and read ALL the postings in this thread you will see that I have merely been defending myself against insults from others, have I not got a right to do that then? Am I supposed to sit back and say nothing and not defend my business?

I may be a little more forceful than some in getting what I want, and I may defend what I have with venom, but that doesn't make the product I am offering bad, it makes it something WORTH defending!!

Ross

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 21:50
Hey dj_humpyg wherever you are. I think your question has been answered.

LOL:blah:

NJK
4th November 2006, 23:23
Originally posted by sputnik radio
And spaceplay . No offense to you . I really don't understand why your panties got all in a wad over this. Your just a broadcaster yourself and this battle has mainly been about licensing.

Non taken
why ?

i have to pay for the lisence and have seen far too many SCAMS like this , they take your money but at the end of the day you still are not covered for streaming copyrighted material.

you did read my post about also working for a real AM station
so i know all about lisences.
we stream on the internet also with the station and trust me if i say that paying your royalties is all it takes.
the PPL isn't anything that either BUMA or SENA has heard from .
straight quote from our stations contact at BUMA

what , that's news to me and i am the one who keeps the contacts with foreign organisations who do the same as we do.

I don't have anything against you ,nor against Ross
but i've seen far to many attempt like this that has gotten us nowhere
the talks with the ppl have been done over 10 times before.
each time it ended nowhere near anything looking like an agreement
But services like these never failed to take the broadcasters money.
by the time the bubble bursted , the ones who took the money got away.
I've been offered these kind of deals some 8 to 10 times already
each time i had to deposite an amount in order to be the first to get a lisence ( BS!!)
I always played the game untill it came to paying , than i stepped out and guess what?
the suddenly didn't answer my mails anymore.

Ross his comment about lisences made him look very bad

if I pay in the Netherlands it means I can stream on the internet WORLD WIDE
and it's not only in my own country ( see some posts above)

anybody who is willing to trow in evidance , be welcome
but since Ross has done nothing but rant back at those who asked serious questions , and placed question marks at his sayings it makes it all look like a giant scam to me

a serious bussines man does NOT do these things, A serious bussines man who has nothing to hide stays polite all the times, because he knows in the end he can show his proof that he was right!!!

think about that

sputnik radio
4th November 2006, 23:30
but can you have djays all over the world?

dotme
5th November 2006, 01:17
Originally posted by sputnik radio
back up fella.

If you go look you will see that dred started talking negatively of their business first. Do the un-professionalism you mention is not exclusive

Uh... back up fella. That's not true. ;)

If you review page one, the timeline is simple.

Post 12 - Enter WHW, who opened their "contribution" to this discussion by stating that Live365 and LoudCity are selling "nothing" and are "scams"

Post 16 - Enter LoudCity, to respond to the damaging and false allegations made against their business.

WHW most definitely threw the first punch. It was unnecessary. They could easily have mentioned what they are working on without taking a shot at Live365 and LoudCity.
Originally posted by nomadrush
I have merely been defending myself against insults from others, have I not got a right to do that then? Am I supposed to sit back and say nothing and not defend my business?
Is that what you expected LoudCity to do when your company made such an outragous allegation against them?

I think what you want to do is interesting - perhaps crazy - but interesting. I've enjoyed the discussion, even though I didn't really get solid answers to my questions.

Anyway, good luck with the business. Maybe you're right and it will be the next big thing. I think the marketing and PR strategy could maybe benefit from a little adjustment though...lol

:D

NJK
5th November 2006, 08:28
Originally posted by sputnik radio
but can you have djays all over the world?

Yes i can
everything they play on my server is covered by my payment for royalties to the 2 agencies here

So Ross his statement really made him look like a jackass when he told me in a post the I could get legal action taken against me when my stream was heard in the UK.

this shows he knows shit about this topic and is himself also full of shit.


read my statement on a serious businessman!!

WebRadioWorld
5th November 2006, 09:32
Dotme I think then the anger should be directed at me because it was that had said in my opinion which is all anyone has given here in this forum.

Originally posted by WebRadioWorld
I am not writing this post to prove anything to nick@ass and I am quite amused at his postings and being sceptical, but then again I can sort of understand, with companies like Live365 and loud city who are selling nothing, you’re not legal with either of these licenses. As mentioned here in this forum you actually need 2 licenses. And for those that do have them are only covered in the USA or the UK. It’s a scam if you ask me.

FIRST: My mention of SCAM was to the licensing of music and having to have 2 licenses and only being covered in a single country due to each countries laws.

My comment of not being legal stands as since everyone here in this forum likes to pick at technicalities; the purchase of a license from either company does not make you entirely legal. But in no way did I intend for any remarks to indicate that any company was intentionally misleading their clients.

And this was only in response to being told that the Extended Territories license wasn't "genuine" Let me see the license we have available covers multiple countries theirs covers the USA or UK.

So alright my opinion is mine and I should not voice it like the rest of you here. They said they didn’t think mine wasn’t Genuine (that’s ok) I say theirs doesn't make you legal and I get berated? Where is the fairness?

Its funny we were not even offering the license to the public yet for the simple fact we are in the final testing phase of the reporting process, though we are accused of taking money and this not being real.

Now for you HATERS out there the following territories are currently signatories to the IFPI reciprocal web casting scheme and therefore form the Extended Territory referred to in the PPL (the United Kingdom collection agency)and make up Web Radio World limited web casting licenses.

CZECH REPUBLIC - DENMARK - DOMINICAN REPUBLIC - ECUADOR - ESTONIA - FRANCE - FINLAND - GERMANY - GREECE - HONG KONG
HUNGARY - ICELAND - ITALY - MALAYSIA - MEXICO - NETHERLANDS
NEW ZEALAND - NORWAY - PANAMA - PARAGUAY - PERU - PORTUGAL
POLAND - SINGAPORE - SLOVENIA - SPAIN - SWEDEN - THAILAND
URUGUAY - UNITIED KINGDOM - UNITED STATES

HMMM over 30 countries all with agreements with PPL and 1 single Extended Territory License and all because Ross at Web Radio World sat through several meetings and procured it.

Believe it, don't believe it is in place and it is the single most comprehensive online broadcasters license to date. Is that bragging no? It's just fact. And I am sure it will become the 'norm' by next year.

Gentlemen I didn’t come here to sell you anything or take anything away from your respective business. I came to set the record straight after being attacked first by nick@ss.

We don't need to be in competition loud city or any other company. Our license cost the same as everyone else’s it just covers more countries. Broadcasters surely won’t be taken in by that as they try to be as legal as possible.

Everyonehave a great Sunday where ever you are.

Nick@ss
5th November 2006, 10:06
Gentlemen I didn’t come here to sell you anything or take anything away from your respective business. I came to set the record straight after being attacked first by nick@ss.

again i did not attack you or anyone,

i merely recommended that sputnik was sure he was covered,

i also said that it may be perfectly legit but you seem to be mmissing that point.

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 10:33
Spaceplay

Your insults do you no favours and make you no friends!

You should never burn your bridges in this business, it is far too small an industry and one day you may find yourself having to work with someone you have previously insulted! As for calling ME full of shit - take a look in the mirror little lad before insulting people you do not even know.

As for working for an AM station - are we supposed to be impressed by that? LOL I spent years on TV and working for the BBC but that doesn't mean anything when it comes to online radio - it's a whole different ball-game.

Looking at your listening figures Spaceplay - I think you may be better off spending time trying to get someone listening to your station, rather than making enemies on this forum.

bored_womble
5th November 2006, 10:58
i think someone mentioned professionalism ,when is that going to kick in then ?

BW

ps. popcorn is on standby

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 11:04
Professsionalism means that one is good and professional at the job they do, it doesn't mean that they should take insults from idiots without response.

Ross

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 11:07
I think we should end this thread here before it gets really out of hand, and just like the Hulk, Spaceplay wouldn't like me when I really get angry lol!

I will finish by saying this:

Anyone who wishes to be licenced for the majority of world territories and wants streaming that starts from US$5 a month, then contact dan.brewington@webradioworld.com.

Anyone that does not believe what our PPL licence offers, should contact PPL directly and ask!

And finally, anyone who believes anything that Spaceplay is spouting - seek counselling lol!

Ross
WILL POST FOR BEER! lol

NJK
5th November 2006, 11:36
Originally posted by bored_womble
i think someone mentioned professionalism ,when is that going to kick in then ?

BW

ps. popcorn is on standby \

Ross can't because i seem to have hit a nerve here.

As for me burning bridges , NAH i don't care if nobody is listening to my station
it's only a hobby for me, i don't have any intentions to make it to a proffesional station.
it's a test that got out of control and i don't want to stop it.

for your profesionalism , well it's nowhere to be found.
your postings in this forum made it perfectly clear that you sir are nowhere near a gentleman and can not prove what you are saying.

you just scared more people away than i have in the almost 3 1/2 years that i have been active in this forum.
your total lack of professionalism has made you a laugh here.
and sending me a PM to challange me to start a chat session man to man , why??

if you can not prove your point here in a civil and mannered way . what's the point in starting to chat.

I only insulted you when you made your remark about me getting into legal difficuties in the UK if i only had a lisence in the Netherlands, that showed your stupidity
nothing more nothing less
ask anybody who has some legal knowledge, paying for playing copyrighted materials gives you the right to stream on the internet fully legal no matter where somebody is listening.

by posting that you just made it so that it looked ( and still looks) like a giant scam.

nothing more nothing less kid.
the saying is
if you can't stand the heat you shouldn't go near the fire

you started this fire by making claims, as soon as somebody started to ask questions about this you started to attack them.
now i know that attacking can be the best defence it also shows that you have something to hide.

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 11:46
Ok Spaceplay - the use of the word "scam" in association with my business has now landed you in the hot water you seem to wish to bathe in.

Ross

dotme
5th November 2006, 11:50
Originally posted by WebRadioWorld
FIRST: My mention of SCAM was to the licensing of music and having to have 2 licenses and only being covered in a single country due to each countries laws....But in no way did I intend for any remarks to indicate that any company was intentionally misleading their clients.

Now for you HATERS out there the following territories are currently signatories to the IFPI reciprocal web casting scheme and therefore form the Extended Territory referred to in the PPL (the United Kingdom collection agency)and make up Web Radio World limited web casting licenses.

CZECH REPUBLIC - DENMARK - DOMINICAN REPUBLIC - ECUADOR - ESTONIA - FRANCE - FINLAND - GERMANY - GREECE - HONG KONG
HUNGARY - ICELAND - ITALY - MALAYSIA - MEXICO - NETHERLANDS
NEW ZEALAND - NORWAY - PANAMA - PARAGUAY - PERU - PORTUGAL
POLAND - SINGAPORE - SLOVENIA - SPAIN - SWEDEN - THAILAND
URUGUAY - UNITIED KINGDOM - UNITED STATES

HMMM over 30 countries all with agreements with PPL

Hey Dan - thanks for the clarification. That was a nice response. I hear what you're saying, but the agreement isn't with PPL, its with each other. And the IFPI is a "reciprocal" agreement, right?

That's why my understanding is that royalties collected by SoundExchange for British artists (Not listeners) are paid to PPL and royalties collected by PPL for American artists are paid to SoundExchange.

I'm no lawyer. But that's how I thought a reciprocal agreement was supposed to work. If it isn't, then whoever came up with it is an idiot.

I know you can't answer this, but why does PPL see this as a problem? Their "clients" are the musicians, and provided those musicians are compensated, then I don't see the problem.

Everyone in this discussion that runs a station wants to be legal. Which makes us the minority. But if my provider pays US performance rights organizations all royalties for my stream based on rates established in my country, and that money is then distributed to artists all over the world, I'd say the system is working.

dotme
5th November 2006, 11:55
Originally posted by nomadrush
Ok Spaceplay - the use of the word "scam" in association with my business has now landed you in the hot water you seem to wish to bathe in.
Ross
Now I need some popcorn. By the way, "is" and "looks like" have two very different legal meanings (and outcomes) when it comes to damage claims.

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 11:59
Hi Dotme

Stock up on the popcorn Dotme! I have no intention of making some lawyer even richer. I have my own way of dealing with idiots lol

Ross

Nick@ss
5th November 2006, 11:59
pass me that popcorn when your done please dotme. :)

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 12:03
LOL!

I've thrown the popcorn, i'm now on pure dynamite chew sticks!

Ross

dotme
5th November 2006, 12:11
Well, it's 7am here... and popcorn doesn't go well with coffee. I'll settle for a nice hot cup of Starbucks. :)

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 12:33
ADVERTISING

Now many of us don't particularly like having to run advertising on our stations, but let's face it, ads bring in much needed revenue to pay the bills and even produce a profit for your station....

Well another service Web Radio World Ltd offers is to sell advertising across our stations and divide the revenue pro-rata on listener hours.

The big advertisers and agencies are not interetsed in single small online stations but they are VERY interested in the big groups of stations with viewable demographic breakdowns, and we believe therefore, that within two years, all of our stations could be doing pretty well from advertising and sponsorship income.

Another good reason to host your Shoutcast streams with Web Radio World.

Ross
(Will post for beer! lol)

WebRadioWorld
5th November 2006, 12:44
Originally posted by dotme
I'm no lawyer. But that's how I thought a reciprocal agreement was supposed to work. If it isn't, then whoever came up with it is an idiot.

Our agreement is with PPL though and I understand what you are saying. We are able to cover the 30+ countries only through the PPL and the United States through BMI

Not the best system and one of the reasons we are just in the final phase of testing and it wasn’t available on our site.

I am the guy that has to make it possible to collect all of the stats and put them in the right format for PPL/BMI and other agencies and for that matter record companies.

I am not as eloquent as some of you here and to be honest its about putting music and station owners first for me.

I don't want to have a hassle with anyone here, heck I am married I get enough hassle just for breathing in the morning. Seriously let's put the music first, let’s stop attacking each other and attack the people actually responsible for all these headaches.

There are more online stations then any one company here could handle and it is a very big pie more then enough to go around, working in unison for the same goal would benefit all of us.

We have already proven over the last 7 years that working against each other doesn’t work.

Suggested reading http://www.kurthanson.com/archive/news/062402/
Remember the big fish are out to screw us, and they love that we fight here.

Let's not give them the satisfaction.

sputnik radio
5th November 2006, 13:26
Originally posted by spaceplay
Yes i can
everything they play on my server is covered by my payment for royalties to the 2 agencies here

So Ross his statement really made him look like a jackass when he told me in a post the I could get legal action taken against me when my stream was heard in the UK.

this shows he knows shit about this topic and is himself also full of shit.


read my statement on a serious businessman!! are you absolutey sure you can have over seas dejays?

I mean if I where to broadcast into your station from the US would I be covered under your license?


I don't think so unless the holland has more liberal laws than the US over this. LC clearly tells you that if you are licensed through them that you can only broadcast from within the United states. PERIOD. NO EXCEPTIONS>

I figured it would be the same rules for HOLLAND.

Of course I could be wrong.

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 13:30
Licensing is based on the origination of the broadcast, so if a presenter is based outside of Holland he will be repsonsible to the licensing agency in the country from which he broadcasts.

Ross

sputnik radio
5th November 2006, 13:37
Originally posted by nomadrush
Licensing is based on the origination of the broadcast, so if a presenter is based outside of Holland he will be repsonsible to the licensing agency in the country from which he broadcasts.

Ross

Thats what I thought. And thats why I love you guys because not only is your stream host reliable and affordable but you enable me to have dejays in europe and elswhere.

Oh yeah any idea about Russia. I noticed that in your PPL Russia is not covered. I kinda think they are a blackmarket society over there anywway and may not even have any laws . I dont know.

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 13:56
Hi Sputnik

We are continuing negotiations with a number of licencing agencies as well as PPL, MCPS/PRS, Sound Exchange, ASCAP, SESAC, BMI, RIAA and others and it is only a matter of time before all world licencing agencies come together over Internet radio regulation.

As Dan said, there are some limited territories that have not yet joined the world cover initiative, but it really is only a matter of time. (Even for Russia!)

Licensing covers two areas - the main one being RECORD COMPANIES (PPL) and the other being the Writers (MCPS/PRS) and unfortunately they have to be negotaited seperately at the moment.

You know what they say - "Rome wasn't built in a day"! lol

Ross

sputnik radio
5th November 2006, 14:01
thats cool. I was just wondering about Russia. I go over there every year to visit family infact me and my wife have an aparment in Saint Petersburg that we still own the rights too over there. Her parents had it privatized and put in my wifes name back a few years ago so it's ours till we sell the rights on it. Just wanted to know what I might have to do while in Russia. I guess I could just get one of my other dejays to spin while im there .

Like I said about Russia. I kinda think they are a blackmarket society anyway. Every store or mall you go into over there sells blackmarket cd's and dvd's and whatnot. Heck movies are availble in Russia for sale over the counter like months before they even are released to the movie theatres here in the US. So im not sure how they do things over there. They are kind of in a vacuum when it comes to international agreements and stuff.

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 14:10
Yes it is very blackmarket and has a Mafia style underground that control a lot of what goes on. Although to be fair, that also happens in many other countries although much quieter! It has been known for many years that well known underworld figures have strong interests in the world of media and entertainment, including many record labels ellegedly!

I spent many years in the sports industry and in particular boxing promotion, and was dealing with these kind of figures on a day to day basis.

Ross

sputnik radio
5th November 2006, 14:17
Originally posted by nomadrush
Yes it is very blackmarket and has a Mafia style underground that control a lot of what goes on. Although to be fair, that also happens in many other countries although much quieter! It has been known for many years that well known underworld figures have strong interests in the world of media and entertainment, including many record labels ellegedly!

I spent many years in the sports industry and in particular boxing promotion, and was dealing with these kind of figures on a day to day basis.

Ross

WEll if you ever need any help negotiating with the Ruskies let me know. I am intermediate level Russian Speaker and my wife is a natural born Russian fluent in both Russian and English.

We could help you with translating any documents or communications if you ever need it.

Of course you will find most people in Russia that do business outside of Russis speak english as well.

Good luck.

nomadrush
5th November 2006, 14:37
Thanks - much appreciated

Ross

sputnik radio
5th November 2006, 14:48
HEY GUYS!!!

ANYONE WHO KNOWS FEEL FREE TO JUMP IN.

I was wondering about something semi-related to this discussion.

Say for instance (hypothetically of course) I where to install like several massive hardrives into my home computer all hooked up on a super fast FIOS or whatever and I had my computer streaming say out of Dallas streaming to my shoutcast server in germany or wherever.

Anyway instead of having Dejays around the world that actually stream from their homes in whatever country they are in . INstead I would have it to where they can upload their playlist into my computer remotely using ftp or something. Then they would take remote control of my winamp that is on my computer here in Dallas. And they Deejay off my computer but they are in their country.

Would then the dejay in question be covered under the US licenses or would he still have to be covered in his country?

I mean hes still doing the same thing. Still playing the same music the only difference is he does not stream it off his computer . Instead he connects to my PC and controls my winamp and uses his own playlist. I would of course have several huge hard drives that can contain like thousands of songs to support a variety of programming.

So anyone want to jump on that one?



You see this is why internet radio has to be transformed from what it now. There are so many possible variables to consider that just completly fly either under or over the radar and there are no clear guidelines on how to handle such things.

NJK
6th November 2006, 10:45
Originally posted by nomadrush
Licensing is based on the origination of the broadcast, so if a presenter is based outside of Holland he will be repsonsible to the licensing agency in the country from which he broadcasts.


the origine of broadcast is the server
a dj has nothing more that a player and a pluging.

/ me wonders where Microsoft would have been today, if Bill Gates would have had such a bad attitude towards future customers when he started out..............

nomadrush
6th November 2006, 10:54
Write out 1000 times "I know nothing about online broadcasting licencing law!"

Twit!

sputnik radio
6th November 2006, 12:07
Originally posted by spaceplay
the origine of broadcast is the server
a dj has nothing more that a player and a pluging.

/ me wonders where Microsoft would have been today, if Bill Gates would have had such a bad attitude towards future customers when he started out..............

No spaceplay. Go ask over at LC and they will tell you the same.

If the origination of the server where the license begins and end than i guess im a german broadcaster then living in the US.

the origination of the stream meaning (YOUR DJ) is where licensing needs to begin. If your DJ is in the US or UK or Germany then you need to be licensed in each of those places. Thats why these laws suck.

But fortunatly for me I can have dejays in 30 countries.

sputnik radio
6th November 2006, 12:38
heres another one for you legal buffs to wrap your head around. I see nobody cared to dive in and discuss the overseas dj remotely controlling my winamp locally issue.

Heres one for you.

scenerio:

Im in the US my SC server is in Germany. I am licensed say for instance in the US with someone like L365 or LC and my local internet drops my connection so my sc_trans wich is on my SC server in germany loads the back up file and plays a song or two while i get my local connection back up running.

So am i broadcasting out of the US or germany?


LOL

nomadrush
6th November 2006, 12:58
Licencing agencies base their calculations on the start point of the transmission - the point where the music was played out from, which in most cases is where the presenter is based.

If your server is based abroad and music is uploading from a source there, then effectively that is the country in which your music is orignating.

Hope that answers your question

Ross

nathan159
6th November 2006, 20:26
have contacted ppl regarding this, they say they have no ppl licence but are in NEGOTIONS so nothing finalised at the moment

NJK
6th November 2006, 20:57
Originally posted by nomadrush
Write out 1000 times "I know nothing about online broadcasting licencing law!"

Twit!

get yourself a decent translation program
and translate the following

1 - Muziek op Internet
Via het world-wide-web zijn zeer veel radiostations actief.
Hierbij kan het muzieksignaal uitsluitend via het internet worden gedistribueerd maar ook gelijktijdig met het traditionele radio-signaal. Een en ander gebeurt via de techniek "Streaming-Audio".
Belangrijk hierbij is dat de luisteraar op geen enkele wijze invloed kan uitoefenen op de te beluisteren muziek of de muziek kan downloaden.
Met andere woorden: de muziek kan alleen worden beluisterd !

De vergoeding wordt vastgesteld aan de hand van het listeners-log en de playlist en bedraagt
€ 0,00086 per luisteraar / per track met een minimumvergoeding van € 538,- per jaar / per kanaal.

De SENA vergoedingen zijn op jaarbasis, vrij van BTW en worden jaarlijks aangepast met het Consumenten Prijs Indexcijfer, reeks totalen / alle huishoudens.
----------------------------------------------------------


Mag ik zomaar een radiostation op internet beginnen?
Ja. U hebt wel toestemming nodig van Buma/Stemra voor het draaien van muziek op het internet. Voor particulieren geldt een ander tarief dan voor bedrijven. Houd er rekening mee dat u aan Buma/Stemra alleen een vergoeding betaalt voor de componisten en tekstschrijvers van een werk. Voor gebruik van de cd moet u apart toestemming vragen en een vergoeding betalen aan SENA. Informatie hierover vindt u op

And tell me where exactly it states that I am not covered in case a dj makes a show on my server!!

it isn't there FOOL so shut up , you don't know shit about the DUTCH laws regarding internet streaming.

I have nothing to do with either ppl or whatever organisation that you have to deal with.

SO start writing
I'm a stupid kid that can only attack other yet i still have to start a bussines but made my name already being as stupid as stupid can be!!!!!

nomadrush
6th November 2006, 22:12
Spacetwat - How about 12 rounds in the ring some time sonny? I think it's the only damn language you are going to understand. You cerainly don't seem to have a grasp of English!

Now get off my case before I really get angry with you!

You seem out to ruin our business with your stupid and pointless postings and you are now making this very personal.

I hope to meet you soon and put forward a different point of view that you may finally understand!

Not all businessmen deal with idiots in the same way you ass!

dotme
6th November 2006, 22:13
Originally posted by nathan159
have contacted ppl regarding this, they say they have no ppl licence but are in NEGOTIONS so nothing finalised at the moment
If this is true... Sputnik may not be licensed. lol.

jwhalen
7th November 2006, 00:42
i just wanted to add my 2 cents...

this thread is AWESOME!!!

sputnik radio
7th November 2006, 02:28
Spaceplay if duetch law covers you to have foreign dejays then you could be a very rich man. You could offer a Global World Universal license. All you would have to do is set up a bunch of servers in holland and have them all licensed to your deutch authority.

Then you just sell shoutcast hosting till the cows come home to deejays and broadcasters all over the earth and they would all be covered under your one license.
Man you should be rich by now.

nomadrush
7th November 2006, 08:18
Re Nathan159's comment - I'm not sure who he spoke to at PPL but he definitely has his facts wrong!

Also Web Radio World has other licnce cover including BMI for the USA and North American territories, and as we are in negotiation with various collection agencies with a view to bringing them all together, it is unlikely that any agency would want to take action aganst any of our clients whilst we are attempting to make them all world legal!

I think it's time this thread was brought to a close - I think those who want to be world legal should contact us reference their hosting and streaming, and those who don't believe that we have the best intentions in this area should just go and do their own thing and stop mud-slinging. Like I said before, this is a very small industry and it is only a fool who burns his bridges.

Ross

CraigF
7th November 2006, 09:13
As far as i'm concerned, stating that it would be foolish for one licensing agency in a territory to bring legal action against yourselves because you are in the process of gaining international licensing does not mean that you can say that you are legal. Because you aren't. Not to say a court case wouldn't be a cakewalk since you have shown willing to license, but that isn't the point.

I don't know the details of your negotiations, and neither does anyone else. Many people have tried to set up international licensing before and many have failed. Thats BEFORE even working with the hosting/streaming side of the business.

Whatever the case, this thread does nothing to prove anything other than music licensing is a clusterfuck that isn't going to be solved anytime soon.

If you want people to not question your motives/business I suggest that you complete your negotiations, gain your world licensing rights, and then come back here and prove how you were right.

nomadrush
7th November 2006, 09:19
Craig - They wouldn't believe us even then so what's the point.

Ross

nathan159
7th November 2006, 09:34
so your saying you have ppl worldwide cover then are you? all negotians have been sorted if im wrong! looked at your website nothing there nor about bmi!!! also looking at the whole thread abusing/insulting potentially new/future customers! and the way you have handled this is in my eyes is not right!! i would be disgusted! you'll have no customers! but thats my opinion!

nomadrush
7th November 2006, 09:44
Nathan - if I have customers or not is not your concern, and to be honest as this is only one small piece of my business interests worldwide, it is of little consequence.

However if we do end up controlling this market sector through acqusitions thene you may have no choice but to work with us so please do not burn your bridges!

nathan159
7th November 2006, 09:54
looks like u brushed my question to one side !!!

would not choose you! to give me licenses!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nathan159
[B]so your saying you have ppl worldwide cover then are you? all negotians have been sorted if im wrong! looked at your website nothing there nor about bmi!!!

DJSeanC_ROZ
7th November 2006, 10:11
I am a part for a Network that has a BMI licence that covers Not just the US but in Australia as well.

This is the same network as nomadrush co-owns and i do know both of these owners and i am grateful that the network has a BMI licence.

A few stations that has been on radio servers has been busted lately for NOT having these licences and some were suspended. If you do not have coverage by ANY licences you will have to pay hefty fines, that will also close the station down OR they will close you down... permanently.

Licence providers like loudcity has restrictions on airplay, but other networks with a licence to perform may have to follow other rules.

so for those people that argue against worldwide streaming coverage they should think before they speak!

Ps for that last poster before me... his station has a BMI licence... check the networks site!

nomadrush
7th November 2006, 10:53
I would strongly urge all station owners to check out the RIAA's website to see where they stand legally.

http://www.riaa.com/default.asp

I understand from a friend that the RIAA have even been known to pursue an 11 year old girl for illegal download of copyright music so what chance does a radio station have of escaping prosecution?

Can I also remind everyone that copyright theft is a CRIMINAL offence not a civil offence and as such, carries a possible custodial sentence. I expect that one or two stations will be made examples of in a series of forthcoming legal cases and I for one, would want as much protection as possible from all available sources, not arguing the toss that our cover is or isn't full enough!

Many stations use copyright music behind jingles and adverts without permission and do not even realise that they are committing a criminal offence!

Licensing on the Net will be changing very soon, I can't say more on this at the moment as we are in advanced negotiations, but it will make it a whole lot easier to get cover at an affordable rate.

Ross

bored_womble
7th November 2006, 11:33
i hope you do not take this the wrong way, but I would suspect with the attitude you have shown here that many would find it hard doing business with you.

You may/may not have a world license shortly, but when some have suggested making sure it is legitimate/asking for evidence etc this was seen as an attack and the reaction, was to say the least, very very unprofessional. Now imagine if a customer had emailed you the questions posted here, and you had sent them the same material back, I for one would have moved on rather quickly.

I do know from experience the negotiations involved, with 3 of the licensing agencies around the world, and I do congratulate your efforts, however I also do know their reaction unless you are going to be paying a significant sum each month, which as a start up agency you will not, as with any startup the business is not initially there.

Now I also see as the latest post, some semi veiled threat/sales pitch that everyone is breaking the law and should get a license, and oh look you are here to provide.

As with any forum there are the unstated rules which most people only come to learn after 6-12 months , and here it can take a little longer as many of us to do not post alot of the time.

I would suggest as CraigF has pointed, get your license then come back, as the continued posting of effectively NOTHING USEFUL is very very tiresome.

Now I am sure you will come back with some rather unwitty comment re. well its the law and you should have a licence and you are wrong and we are talking to PPL etc etc, but as Nathan has pointed out, you have not actually answered his question, or for the most part anyone elses ....

BW.

ps. now I am bored ... as all the popcorn is gone :(

nomadrush
7th November 2006, 11:53
Hi Womble

Professionalism is about offering your customers a great service and as has already been shown on here that's exactly what we do. Professionalism is not about sitting in a forum being slagged off maliciously without having the right to fight back.

You may not like the way I respond, but I take crap from no-one. I don't ask people to like me and to be frank don't care whether they do or not. I guess I am lucky enough to be in a position where I can survive with or without them so I refuse to crawl to anybody!

I have been working endlessly on setting up a licence that will benefit all whichever territory they are in, as I am a radio man through and through and want to see online radio work with the current problems eliminated, but if people don't want to take advantage of that licence it really isn't any skin off my nose. All I know is that OUR clients will benefit.

We should all be working together on this not fighting and making pointless and pathetic statements in the forums that do nothing to solve the problems we all face.

There are some in here who post sesnibly and make good and valid points and I do not send thunderbolts at them do I? It is purely the idiots like Spaceplay who feel my wrath and if you want to call it unprofessional you can, but I have never tolerated fools gladly and if they don't wish to be attacked then they shouldn't start the war by firing the first bullets.

As I said before, I spent many years dealing with REAL hardmen whilst in the boxing industry and have learned that being nice isn't always the most effective way when dealing with attacks!

Love it or hate it Web Radio World is here to stay and with the current acquisition targets we will be at the forefront of this industry sooner rather than later, so once again, I warn that people should not burn their bridges.

Now, let's all play nice!

Be lucky!

Ross

nathan159
7th November 2006, 12:01
Originally posted by nathan159
looks like u brushed my question to one side !!!

would not choose you! to give me licenses!

[QUOTE]Originally posted by nathan159
[B]so your saying you have ppl worldwide cover then are you? all negotians have been sorted if im wrong! looked at your website nothing there nor about bmi!!!



misses it again hmmmmmmm dont that tell ya summit

nomadrush
7th November 2006, 12:19
What are you Nathan the bloody Spanish Inquisition?

If you read back through the posts your question has already been answered by both Dan Brewington and myself.

dotme
7th November 2006, 12:39
Originally posted by nomadrush
...with the current acquisition targets we will be at the forefront of this industry sooner rather than later..
Are you buying Live365? Or PPL UK? Maybe ASCAP? SoundExchange? Sounds expensive to me...

I may be wrong, but I think there are a limited number of webcasters that care about being legal. And not even the mighty RIAA has the resources to chase down over 10,000 shoutcasters - not to mention those broadcasting on other platforms. File sharing was a much bigger threat to music sales, so it makes sense that the RIAA would target that. But clearly the resources required to police the entire net for unlicensed webcasters is enormous. So if you're relying on a few public court cases to drum up business, that's probably not going to pan out.

Hell, half the kids who post on these forums looking for shoutcast tech support can barely read... so they are unlikely to read CNN.

The quest for a "monopoly" (which it sounds like you're after) is noble... but unattainable. Anybody with enough money can follow the same path. So why don't they? I'm guessing because there's not likely to be a high return on investment.

sputnik radio
7th November 2006, 13:05
Hell, half the kids who post on these forums looking for shoutcast tech support can barely read... so they are unlikely to read CNN.

LMFAO



Hey Dotme. How in the heck did you ever get that acxImage file to work for your sig?

I've been messing with it for 2 days now and i cant figure it out to save my life./

CraigF
7th November 2006, 15:17
As I've already said. Sort out the business end first before dishing out the sales pitch and you'll get more respect.

I fail to see why this conversation needs to continue until then.

sputnik radio
7th November 2006, 15:21
actually in all fairness I think Im the one who mentioned world license first. Perhaps what i should have said was licensing in 30 countries.

sorry for bringing it up.

nomadrush
7th November 2006, 15:54
DotMe

If you don't think the online radio business is going to escalate into a major force in the media in the next few years then I think you are the one thta may need some guidance! Just check the information that's out there about what is actually happening.

I'm not having a go at you here, just that I have had some very good gambles pay off in my life and I believe this to be a worthwhile dabble lol!

The "bedroom DJ's" will still be around but the big professional radio groups are already eyeing up the larger stations online and soon there will only be a handful of big players. Its the way of the world!

Ross

nomadrush
7th November 2006, 16:18
Firstly:

"Webcasting is one of the biggest growth areas for music online. It generally refers to the streaming of audio on the Internet, such as with Internet radio. As available user bandwidth increases, more and more major entertainment websites are streaming audio and creating genre based, commercial-free programming.

The RIAA foresaw the market potential of digitally transmitted music (including cable and satellite services) and worked with Congress in the early 1990s to preserve copyright holders’ rights. We wanted to find the best way to assure the development of this exciting business while knowing that copyright holders should be able to control the digital performance of their works just as they do the reproduction, distribution, and adaptation."

(Taken from the RIAA website.)


Secondly: http://www.riaa.com/issues/licensing/webcasting_faq.asp

fc*uk
7th November 2006, 22:09
Streaming media already is a "big force in the media business". Actually, it is also beginning to expand outside of the media business.

Soon the laws will catch up to make this something worth while. Until then, people are going to make one of two choices: a. tell being legal to piss off; b. do what they can to be legal, but they are not about to bend over backwards to do so.

Then, eventually, people will figure out that they are missing a boat load of money or that this has all gotten too complicated, and apply the XM/Sirius model in reverse. Fine broadcast something, anything, what ever the hell you want. Just give us $10/month for it and we will deal with who gets the money.

NJK
8th November 2006, 07:41
Originally posted by CraigF
As I've already said. Sort out the business end first before dishing out the sales pitch and you'll get more respect.

I fail to see why this conversation needs to continue until then.

AMEN to that

I have contacted several people directly related to businesses that deal with internet streaming and NONE of them seems to be aware of this.

So instead of acting like a 10 year old as soon as somebody start to ask questions regarding this issue
get your stuff straight , get it done and come back here to prove it.

and BTW Ross
10 rounds, you wouldn't even last 1
but again as i have stated several times before you are showing that you are nowhere near a respectable businessman
and you showed that poor attitude in a forum populated by your future customers. way to go dude!

nomadrush
8th November 2006, 08:10
One round eh? You haven't done your research on me very well then have you!

Until the day we meet Spaceplay - enjoy hiding behind your PC

CraigF
8th November 2006, 11:00
Jesus Christ, will you guys grow the fuck up.

nomadrush
8th November 2006, 11:08
Why? I'm having so much fun lol!

Ross

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 12:47
Originally posted by spaceplay
AMEN to that

I have contacted several people directly related to businesses that deal with internet streaming and NONE of them seems to be aware of this.



Are these the same people that gave you the impression that you are covered to have over seas dejays?

If so maybe you need to find a new source for your info.

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 12:48
I spoke to the president of the Universe this morning and he said he was completely unaware that spaceplay had any license whatsoever in holland.

Dont believe me call him and ask him yourself.

dotme
8th November 2006, 13:10
Originally posted by sputnik radio
I spoke to the president of the Universe this morning and he said he was completely unaware that spaceplay had any license whatsoever in holland
Spaceplay is licensed in his own country.

But... If the other posters here are to be believed, the only license actually held by WRW at the moment is with BMI. Everything else is still "in negotiations".

A license "in negotiation" isn't a license "held" - Because negotiations have a funny way of falling through.

BMI coverage alone is not enough in the USA (you must have SoundExchange and ASCAP coverage too). So if this is really the only license currently held by WRW and you are relying on them to be legal, your station isn't licensed right now in any country.

Woops... lol

CraigF
8th November 2006, 13:25
Originally posted by sputnik radio
I spoke to the president of the Universe this morning and he said he was completely unaware that spaceplay had any license whatsoever in holland.

Dont believe me call him and ask him yourself.

I called him and he just told me your sig was as big as your overinflated ego.

I got rid of the one I have control over, hopefully you'll do something about the latter.

xhilaration
8th November 2006, 13:37
Originally posted by nomadrush
I think we should end this thread here before it gets really out of hand, and just like the Hulk, Spaceplay wouldn't like me when I really get angry lol!

I will finish by saying this:

Anyone who wishes to be licenced for the majority of world territories and wants streaming that starts from US$5 a month, then contact dan.brewington@webradioworld.com.

Anyone that does not believe what our PPL licence offers, should contact PPL directly and ask!

And finally, anyone who believes anything that Spaceplay is spouting - seek counselling lol!

Ross
WILL POST FOR BEER! lol


BUT, advertising is against the forum rules, if we can't advertise our shoutcast radio, then BUDDY YOU CAN'T ADVERTISE YOUR UNKNOWN business.

Did you read the sticky's?

I guess not cuz you guys are to busy bashing Live365 and Loudcity and thats slander that I might add.

No one here was bashing your thing, so why have to do it to others that are VERY well knowned and majority of stations go threw them. I don't see any station *Besides Sputnik Radio* going through yours.

How about stop negotated and make plans of having them then you'll be a respected company, but till then. Be the company that will be shun upon as being a SHANTY one.

If you guys want respect, then please have respect to the winamp eldars of the forum.

Again I really do think you are violating the forum rules with advertising, here, let me help you:

The things you need to know more are in the RED
Welcome to the Winamp Forums

With every great community, there are the rules and laws that ensure people coexist peacefully. These forums are no different. There are boundaries to what is and what is not allowed. These rules are in place to ensure the Winamp Forums continue to be a friendly place where members can learn and share information on a variety of computing and non-computing topics.

The rules to the Winamp Forums are as follows:

Advertising
- Advertising or soliciting other members to buy, sell or peruse any products or services through this discussion forum is not permitted. Chain letters and junk mail are also strictly prohibited. Topics/posts that contain this will be both edited and locked.

Flaming
- Material that is knowingly defamatory, illegal, abusive, threatening or harassing, is strictly prohibited. As with anything, you, as a member, should use good common sense when posting. In other words, you agree not to be a jerk. Posts containing personal attacks on another user will be edited or deleted with no warning or consent.

Right to Privacy
- You will not violate a person's privacy by publishing information against another member?s will, information that is private and personal. If you violate this rule, your account may be automatically banned without prior warning.

Spamming
- Topics/posts that are just complete nonsense will be deleted, or have the entire thread locked, at the moderators discretion. If you violate this rule, your account may be automatically banned without prior warning.

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Porn
- Material that is sexually or otherwise obscene is not permitted on these forums. Topics/posts containing such will be deleted on sight. If you violate this rule, your account may be automatically banned without prior warning.

Warez
- Providing or asking for information on how to illegally obtain "warez", "gamez" or any other software or work protected by copyright law is strictly forbidden. If you violate this rule, your account may be automatically banned without prior warning.

Virii, Malware and Adware
- Posting links leading to virii, malware, adware, etc is forbidden. Any violation of this rule, your account will be banned without prior warning and the thread will be edited or deleted accordingly. As a warning to our users, you should be vigilent when clicking on links and exercise the same caution as you would on other sites.

Post Pumping
- If a post is suspected to serve no other purpose than to increase the post count of the poster, then the moderators may, at their discretion, issue a PM to the member in question enquiring about the nature of the post. Posts/Threads that are blatantly post pumping will be removed/locked without recourse to the poster.

Cross-posting
- Posting the same question in more than one forum is not allowed. Should this occur, then only the thread in the most relevant forum will be left open; all others will be locked and subsequently deleted.

Signature Size
- To keep the page loading time and visual annoyance factor down to a minimum, ensure your graphical signatures do not exceed a maximum of 12,500 pixels or 15 kilobytes file size, whichever is reached first. Alternatively, three lines of text can be used as a signature. Do not pad out your text lines with blanks lines. A line of text is defined such that it does not wrap when viewed at a resolution of 640x480.

If these limits are exceeded then you may be contacted by a moderator requesting an amendmant to your signature. If none is made within a reasonable period of time, then a moderator may remove your signature from your profile.

StreamRippers
- Due to legal liability issues, any information or references to information about streamripping applications are strictly prohibited within these forums. Any threads/posts containing such information will be edited/deleted without warning..



What should I do if I see objectionable material on the forums?
- It is important that members recognize the real-time nature of these forums; the moderators cannot always monitor the contents of posted messages. As such, we depend upon you to inform them when members are violating our rules. You must also recognize that they cannot respond immediately to such notices and that some time may pass before any warranted action is taken.

To contact a moderator use the "Report this post to a moderator" function or send a private message to one of the moderators listed in the Forum Leaders page.



What happens if I break the rules?
At best your post will be edited by one of the moderators and you will be issued a warning. If the offence is more serious your post will be deleted. Posting "why was my post edited/deleted?" etc. will only make matters worse so please don't.

Should you have already been issued warnings and continue to break the rules, you will be issued a temporary ban - your posting privileges will be disabled for seven days, but you will still be able to view the forums as a guest.

For persistent and or deliberate rule-breakers your account will be "Nuked". That means you are no longer welcome on these forums and your account will no longer function. If you re-register, your new account will be nuked immediately and any new threads/posts will automatically be removed, regardless of their nature

Suggestions
In the attempt to create a compromise where everyone is happy, the following suggestions are also recommended:

1. Use common sense. Anything that you say or do carries consequences with it. If you find yourself questioning the nature of what you?re going to post, then it?s probably not safe to post it. Save yourself trouble and ourselves time, think before you post.

2. Always be civil and courteous. This forum is visited by people from all over the world of different ages, genders, and races. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Also, see Flaming, Right to Privacy, and Racism.

3. Make sure that your message topics fit the topic description of the forum that you are posting in. This is for your own benefit - for example, a question regarding a Winamp problem will get a better (and probably quicker) response in Winamp Technical Support, than it would in General Discussions.

4. Use the search function before posting, particularly if the question is problem oriented. Most technical questions have been answered before, and solutions are freely available. Also, Tech Support Greatest Hits contains a compilation of the most commonly asked technical support questions.

5. Make sure that you have followed #1 and #4 before posting :)

6. Read the sticky threads at the top of each forum - they are there for a reason, and generally contain information relevant to the forum that they are in.

7. Don't quote the entire message that you're responding to, only the pertinent passage. This makes it easier to read for other users.

8. Only post pictures when absolutely necessary, and when they are directly relevant to the topic discussion. If the image you are posting is large in size (either pixel size, file size, or both), then please post a link to the picture instead of posting the picture itself. Remember that not everybody has the T3 connection that you are accustomed to, and may have to wait some time for images to load.

9. If you find it easier to express yourself en Franç¡©s, auf Deutsch, en Espanol, in Nederlands, in Italiano, or any other language, post in the International Connection forum. You'll find help and pointers in almost every language we can think of.



With that being said, don't take what I typed above out of context or put words in my mouth. I am only trying to do what I really see violating the forum rules.

And that was my rant/last 2 cents. Back to your wonderful broadcasting.

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 15:03
Originally posted by CraigF
I called him and he just told me your sig was as big as your overinflated ego.

I got rid of the one I have control over, hopefully you'll do something about the latter.


Yeah I noticed.


"In the attempt to create a compromise where everyone is happy, we'd like to make some suggested signature sizes and guidelines.

To keep the page loading time, and visual annoyance factor down to a minumum, please keep your graphical sigs to a 12,500 pixel max or 15k file size.

For text, please try and keep it to 3 lines max.

One last idea is to limit signature usage to once per thread. Few things are more annoying than seeing the same graphic over and over while scrolling through a long thread. Even the coolest sigs start to grate when you see them 75 times.

This bit of courtesy for your fellow forumites, will make the boards work a bit faster for all of us.

These suggestions are just that; suggestions. And a little slop over is okay in general. People who continue to make gigantic sigs will, after some moderater discussion, be asked to voluntarily comply with the guidelines or have their signatures disabled. We don't want to do that. We all just want to have fun."





And thanks for asking me to voluntarily comply with the guidelines before you removed it. What a champ.

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 15:17
dangit the only image that seems to load right is the one that is like 300k to big.

oh well I will find something else.

I wonder if 300k could be considered "a little slop over" ?

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 15:27
Originally posted by dotme
Spaceplay is licensed in his own country.

But... If the other posters here are to be believed, the only license actually held by WRW at the moment is with BMI. Everything else is still "in negotiations".

A license "in negotiation" isn't a license "held" - Because negotiations have a funny way of falling through.

BMI coverage alone is not enough in the USA (you must have SoundExchange and ASCAP coverage too). So if this is really the only license currently held by WRW and you are relying on them to be legal, your station isn't licensed right now in any country.

Woops... lol

Dotme.

I dont doubt he is . It was a sarcastic joke .

Anybody can post anything about who they talked to and what they said. It don't make it the absolute definitive truth.

Just because Spaceplay makes post about who he talks too and what they said doesnt mean diddly squat. That was my point.

Watch this.

Hey I called up Rick James last night and he said that Dotme don't have no rythm.

Now just because I posted that does it automatically make it the gospel?

see where im going with that?


You guys used to be cool. I don't know who pissed in your cheerios but so be it.

actually im working on a way to store all my songs on a server in europe and use active winamp to dj . So

dotme
8th November 2006, 15:49
Originally posted by sputnik radio
You guys used to be cool. I don't know who pissed in your cheerios but so be it.
lol - I prefer Captain Crunch.

I was just pointing out that Live365, SWCast and LoudCity all hold licenses with BMI, SESAC, ASCAP and SoundExchange. That puts those three companies in the position of being able to offer USA small webcasters affordable royalty coverage and licensing (Affordable when compared to direct-licensing).

These services can offer this coverage today. Right now.

If you remember, the initial allegation was that Live365 and LoudCity were not legal.

If it is true that WHW currently holds one license - with BMI - and the rest are still "in negotiation", that would seem to imply that WHW are the ones currently not legal.

Am I the only one who sees the irony in that? ;)

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 15:55
Originally posted by dotme
lol - I prefer Captain Crunch.

I was just pointing out that Live365, SWCast and LoudCity all hold licenses with BMI, SESAC, ASCAP and SoundExchange. That puts those three companies in the position of being able to offer USA small webcasters affordable royalty coverage and licensing (Affordable when compared to direct-licensing).

These services can offer this coverage today. Right now.

If you remember, the initial allegation was that Live365 and LoudCity were not legal.

If it is true that WHW currently holds one license - with BMI - and the rest are still "in negotiation", that would seem to imply that WHW are the ones currently not legal.

Am I the only one who sees the irony in that? ;)

But you see dotme its not that simple. I am an international broadcaster. I have residence in Russia and America. I have dejays in europe and one in america. So loudcity nor L365 can cover me in such a broad fashion.

It's a lot to think about especially seeing how constricting the current laws are.

If im licensed through say LC . I go to Russia for a month and dj there Im not licensed. If one of my dj's in the UK wants to play Im not licensed.

Now I know wrw doesnt currently cover Russia but heck I dont know who does.

I just wish it where more simple.

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 15:56
actually i have a solution.

Im about to hook my system up where I dejay using active winamp remotely.

so no matter where I am my stream will always originate from one place.

Nick@ss
8th November 2006, 16:05
wow this threads got legs....

http://www.postcardsfromla.com/leya/archives/pix/2005/Marcella-legs.jpg

ps these are not mine :)

dotme
8th November 2006, 16:07
It's who owns the station that matters, I think. I hear what you're saying about international issues. But most stations are not like yours. Most have one owner, one controller, and usually one DJ. Which means WHW is offering a service that may ultimately be of value to only a small fraction of webcasters.

10% of webcasters care about licensing
10% of those have international DJs
= 1% of the market. Ouch.

dotme
8th November 2006, 16:09
Originally posted by nick@ss
wow this threads got legs....
lol - probably the most entertaining thread since Norman took over WebcasterU at the beginning of the year. :)

Nick@ss
8th November 2006, 16:17
379 - webcasterU thread

152 - worldwide thread.

not doing bad, nearly half way. :)

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 16:20
so whats webcasterU all about?

never heard about it

Nick@ss
8th November 2006, 16:23
i would hate to push this off topic so i have pmed you the link for your entertainment.

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 16:24
Originally posted by dotme
It's who owns the station that matters, I think. I hear what you're saying about international issues. But most stations are not like yours. Most have one owner, one controller, and usually one DJ. Which means WHW is offering a service that may ultimately be of value to only a small fraction of webcasters.

10% of webcasters care about licensing
10% of those have international DJs
= 1% of the market. Ouch.

well i definitely care about licensing.

But you could look at that from a different angle

30>1

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 17:32
Here is a very interesting read about the subject.


http://www.law.duke.edu/journals/dltr/articles/2001dltr0031.html

sputnik radio
8th November 2006, 21:06
Ok now this is just getting scarey.

http://www.arbitron.com/portable_people_meters/home.htm

they have a people meter that will allow them to collect dat on when and where media is being played .


this sorta answers the question earlier in this thread about music being monitored.

NJK
9th November 2006, 07:10
Originally posted by sputnik radio
actually i have a solution.

Im about to hook my system up where I dejay using active winamp remotely.


First normal posting i have seen since you entered this thread

Now you get how i CAN be LEGAL with DJ's all over the world!!!!

there isn't a law in the world that does not have a maze!!!!

besides that there is always the FTP , dj's upload their shows and i transfer the show to the schedule.

The reason why i did not give names with the post i made above talking about nobody that is aware of this "new world wide lisence" is because i asked them as a private person.
I did not ask them permission to post their names.
As i believe strongly in a persons privacy i won't do such a thing without their aproval.

both are providing software for station automation and are not USA based.

sputnik radio
9th November 2006, 12:36
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

First post I've seen you make with a lick of respect to anyone other than your cohorts since I had the good fortune of being privvy to your co-existance in the universe.


ps. looking at your stats I sure hope your not paying much for that dutch licensing. Send me a PM sometimes and I will teach you some tricks on how to get your listener count up.

NJK
9th November 2006, 13:42
Originally posted by sputnik radio

ps. looking at your stats I sure hope your not paying much for that dutch licensing. Send me a PM sometimes and I will teach you some tricks on how to get your listener count up.

ppss
again you didn't read other posts

as i stated before it's a hobby that has grown out of control and honestly i don't give a damn about listeners count

i see one of the two streams having listener now and than , well fine
the other hardly even has listeners but it's infact a backup for real AM station
in case the internet connection between the studio and the tx site goes down , my stream kicks in. ( silence detection system)
So i don't need tips and tricks at all
thank you for the offer but no thanks.

WebRadioWorld
20th January 2007, 17:15
Originally posted by nathan159
have contacted ppl regarding this, they say they have no ppl licence but are in NEGOTIONS so nothing finalised at the moment

TO the HATERS, and Chicken Littles of the forum, sorry but Sputnik is covered for his royalty payments in the 35 major countries covered by the extended territories license.

nathan159 you didn't call PPLUK and speak to the Broadcasting Licensing Executive because if you had he would have said differnetly get the telephone number from www.ppluk.com

Unlike many people I try to work with any organization to make our hobby/industry a better place for everyone. I am not out to get rich off the backs of others.

I my goal is for everyone that wants to broadcast to be able to do it without getting charged an ARM & LEG by the Gov't, the RIAA and other organizations (mainly in the USA).

I love internet radio, I love being around it and I get jazzed up when I see all the thousands of stations and hear the millions of hours of programming and content that commercial broadcasters just cant do. Its one of the most rewarding hobbies/industries to be in.

That's why I am involved Remember that.

Jeeper One
21st January 2007, 20:23
Hi everyone:Originally posted by WebRadioWorld

I am not writing this post to prove anything to nick@ass and I am quite amused at his postings and being sceptical, but then again I can sort of understand, with companies like Live365 and loud city who are selling nothing, you’re not legal with either of these licenses. As mentioned here in this forum you actually need 2 licenses. And for those that do have them are only covered in the USA or the UK. It’s a scam if you ask me.I'm not quite sure just which country you hail from WebRadioWorld (I'm assuming the UK judging by your references to that part of the world), but I can assure you that Live365 (http://www.live365.com/) is licensed IN THE UNITED STATES with ASCAP (http://www.ascap.com/) & BMI (http://www.bmi.com/) and is registered with SoundExchange (http://www.soundexchange.com/).

Beyond that, any legal info. you might need on Live365 (http://www.live365.com) can be found here (http://www.live365.com/info/legal.html). Alternatively, you might try emailing them too @ legal@live365.com. :D *Hint...Hint!*

JFYI :D

Cheers :D

Pat (ala Jeeper One)

WebRadioWorld
21st January 2007, 21:17
Originally posted by Jeeper One
Beyond that, any legal info. you might need on Live365 (http://www.live365.com) can be found here (http://www.live365.com/info/legal.html). Alternatively, you might try emailing them too @ legal@live365.com. :D *Hint...Hint!*

JFYI :D

Cheers :D

Pat (ala Jeeper One) [/B]

Hi and thanks for your post. I have not spoken with the legal department at Live365, actually the only time my company had contact with them is when we put in a bit to buy them.

And they are a good solid company with decent profits. Which HINT HINT is why we put in an initial offer for them.

Unfortunatly it is a strictly for broadcasters broadcasting to/in the US. If your in germany broadcasting to Europe or the UK they are not much help. (Please correct me if I am wrong)

As far as my nationality, I am American, proud of it, served my country the whole nine yards. I also lived in the UK for 11 years and South Americaa for 5, as well as a dozen other countries. Unlike most of my country folk I get out look around and see what the rest of the world has to offer and realize my country, though amazing is not the center of the universe. :-)

Cheers

SorceryKid
21st January 2007, 21:39
I must agree with the remark of Jeeper One. Live365 is a reputable company, who I have had the good fortune to work with for several years. There is no rationale for the blatant claim that Live365 is a) not selling anything and b) not providing a legal service. Public defamation is a rather dubious and crude business tactic. It is really not the quickest way to engender respect and confidence in our marketplace.

Randall Krause
Executive Director
Small Webcaster Community Initiative

WebRadioWorld
21st January 2007, 23:56
Originally posted by Dredd
How wonderful to see you sputtering nonsense on this forum too.

The “World Wide License” is a fabrication of the PPL.

Anyone that does not have to operate under the PPL should think twice about getting this kind of license, because it’s completely meaningless to you, particularly if you are in the US.

You will not find any US broadcasters (other than a few that WRW snake oiled), large or small, paying the PPL directly because they know it’s wrong and they refuse to over pay royalties.

I can’t speak for Live365, but they are a DiMA member, as is LoudCity. We both access to the best legal advice regarding webcasting. If this PPL thing were a legitimate issue there would be a lot more buzz about it. [/B]

Yes and this is kosher? To be told that we "Snake Oil" people is fine. I think you called it "Public defamation is a rather dubious and crude business tactic"? if I am not mistaken.

And we shall pass on the comments to the PPL I am sure they will be interested in knowing that they are not considered "Legitimate"