new mod needed [Archive]

chiquita chad

13th May 2001, 03:06

has anyone else noticed that hawk606 has posted in here 2 times in the last 2 months?
its not like he's on vacation, he's still posting in other forums (too good for skin love)...
and while hawk606 is posting elsewhere we have a Member who would be perfect for the job of Moderator... Mr Jones
we really dont need people like hawk who never helps out newbies or post for that matter. what we need is more people who resemble Jayn. Jayn is constantly posting help, not spam/garbage. I'm getting tired of Skin Love being a one man, errrrrmmm woman, show. I also thought cappy17 would be a good Moderator considering his extremely helpful bug reports. But I's still like to see Mr Jones' name at the top of the screen underneath the "Moderated by..."
If enough people support me... I'll send a request to watadoo, or just have Jayn do it (if it's in her heart)

-keetah

Duk

13th May 2001, 03:25

Heh heh heh ... that's the way to slow him down, keeah! :D Yup! Add my name to the petition for Jones. This may give us all a chance to catch up to him in the skin totals. :eek: ;)

Um, too, the other moderators (Jayn of course being the exception) only seem to 'come down from on high' to post. Almost as if they are inconvenienced by us, keetah ... OR (more likely) just too damn good for us. Yes too special and knowledgable and way too intelligent & worldly ::cough cough:: to chat with common folk like us. :rolleyes:

chiquita chad

13th May 2001, 03:30

not exactly the point of the petition but YAY

pixelpusher

13th May 2001, 03:52

I broswe the other forums and it seems like skin love is the only one that moderates itself. The troublemakers are normally taken care of from within. But I do think skin love could use a more active mod like jayn.

Xerxes is a mod and he's in here quite a bit.

I won't split loyalities. I think MJ and Cappy are both good choices for the job. I think it depends on which of them would care to have the responibilities.

I like the way BullGawd handles himself to. He can go off half cocked at times. But the boy has a way with words. :D
He would be my third choice.

Mr Jones

13th May 2001, 11:29

Wow I'm flattered.

I've talked about the moderation issues before, out of the 5 names listed up there, jayn and then xerxes are the only ones who seem to be in here on any sort of regular basis, , don't recall seeing hawk or jaz post in here for what seems like forever, and Mike is only round once in a while. Is it because we moderate ourselves better as PP said up there ?, or is it because the self same mods are off moderating other forums as well?, are we spreading the mods to thin on the ground maybe?.

For what it's worth, if you want me to do it, I'll glady do it, just ask the right people CC and see what happens.

As I say, I'm flattered you would even start this thread in the first place :)

skinme!

13th May 2001, 12:07

Yeah.... Mr Jones for president....

No seriously, I think Mr Jones would make a great mod. He is always around to help and start interesting threads. And I love his skins.

simon snowflake

13th May 2001, 13:48

No comments.....

a well one then. As said before this forum will Moderate it self. but if you have moderators, please let them be here once in a while, or better almost constantly.

but you can't just demand from people to stay here if they lost there interest. Everybody has times that their interests change. Well mine do.
:p

ElChevelle

13th May 2001, 14:50

Well, I guess us moderators forget that it is our job to hold everyone's hands and lead them through the forums safely. I also forgot that moderators=tech support personnel. I need to go back and read my employment contract with Nullsoft, cause I also forgot that moderators are appointed by their fan clubs rather than administration.

Wait a minute,.................my memory is fine!
I didn't forget those things, they were never there:p

Originally posted by chiquita chad
has anyone else noticed that hawk606 has posted in here 2 times in the last 2 months?
its not like he's on vacation, he's still posting in other forums (too good for skin love)...

It sounds more like you have personal issues with hawk. What do you define as posting enough here. One, two posts per thread?

ElChevelle

13th May 2001, 14:58

Originally posted by Mr Jones
....don't recall seeing hawk or jaz post in here for what seems like forever, and Mike is only round once in a while. Is it because we moderate ourselves better as PP said up there ?, or is it because the self same mods are off moderating other forums as well?, are we spreading the mods to thin on the ground maybe?.

I don't know about hawk, but Jaz has had a major computer malfunction and THEMike is on assignment(some of us do have real life jobs;))
Don't fret, you are being watched over and moderated. Would you like more moderation? It can be arranged.
Oh, by the way. Moderators have equal power and rights over ALL forums now. They are designated for their qualities and for format use only. If I were to deem a thread in here worthy of deletion or pruning, I have that power. We all do but as stated, this forum is one of the best behaved of Winamp's.:)

simon snowflake

13th May 2001, 15:02

Originally posted by ElChevelle
.....If I were to deem a thread in here worthy of deletion or pruning, I have that power. We all do but as stated, this forum is one of the best behaved of Winamp's.:)

That might be because this is a share your feeling forum?

chiquita chad

13th May 2001, 15:09

:rolleyes: once again ElChevelle shows his extreme dislike for me and anything i have to say ;)

chiquita chad

13th May 2001, 15:12

plus im not saying that Mr Jones or any mod has to help out with tech support for newbies... all members take care of that in here, but when some critical issue comes about we only have one person to look to, Jayn. Jayn and Mr Jones alone are currently trying to get the skin portion of winamp.com straightened out... i dont see jaz or hawk doing that... whatever the hell i did to you chev, you need to drop it, i'm not the dumbass you make me to seem

ElChevelle

13th May 2001, 15:13

You take everything to offense, huh? I didn't mean to hurt your feelings.
Chad, I made my opinions known on this subject and merely tried to clarify current mod/forum relations. It appeared to me that someone needed to make a statement on behalf of mods. Is that wrong?

simon snowflake

13th May 2001, 15:16

YES!! YES!! YES!!
.....actually no, it's not bad to say that ElChevelle:p

ElChevelle

13th May 2001, 15:18

Originally posted by chiquita chad
Jayn and Mr Jones alone are currently trying to get the skin portion of winamp.com straightened out... i dont see jaz or hawk doing that... whatever the hell i did to you chev, you need to drop it, i'm not the dumbass you make me to seem

If more help is needed, I'd be more than happy to help if Mr. Jones and Jayn can't get it done. As a matter of fact, I can call out the entire mod squad for help.:)
Chad, if I can't state an opinion without you getting all teary eyed, you need to see a doctor. It wouldn't matter who raised the subject, the same would be stated by me. you just have this paranoia issue that I'm out to get you. Mack the Knife, I'm not. Though, I do know his cousin;)

ElChevelle

13th May 2001, 15:19

Originally posted by simon snowflake
YES!! YES!! YES!!
.....actually no, it's not bad to say that ElChevelle:p

:D

Duk

13th May 2001, 18:36

Originally posted by chiquita chad
Jayn and Mr Jones alone are currently trying to get the skin portion of winamp.com straightened out...

:cough:

Mr Jones

13th May 2001, 18:44

Yes, Duk is correct there, and my bad for not correcting that faux pas sooner, It's not just Jayn and myself looking to change the review system, even tho I posted up the list etc etc, I had a great deal of help from both Duk and Cappy, so please thank them as well for there contributions, it wouldn't have come out like it did without input from my brothers :)

pixelpusher

13th May 2001, 19:22

Originally posted by ElChevelle
cause I also forgot that moderators are appointed by their fan clubs rather than administration.

In Chads defence, "Me needs to go look over in GD for a minute". I've seen tons of posts over in GD like this and have never seen someone get ripped as bad.

I think you've proved your point El. But it is true that alot of times "it seems" when skin love needs to be in contact with admin. Jayn is the only one around. And I put it seems in "quotes"

This is the best forum there is, as far as having trouble. So we don't need any enforcer type mods. But it would be nice to have another liasion sometimes. I think thats what Chad was trying to say.

About the review thing. Way to go group :D:D:D

Ice

13th May 2001, 19:52

word from watadoo says we aren't looking for new moderators at this time. btw, all moderators moderate skin love.

pixelpusher

13th May 2001, 20:04

Originally posted by Ice
word from watadoo says we aren't looking for new moderators at this time.

Word from the power.

Originally posted by Ice
btw, all moderators moderate skin love.

:DCause this is the coolest place to be:D

simon snowflake

13th May 2001, 20:13

Originally posted by Ice

:DCause this is the coolest place to be:D

that is a fact :p

skinme!

13th May 2001, 21:51

Originally posted by pixelpusher
:DCause this is the coolest place to be:D

No, I think this is the coolest place to be. http://www.ice.kewlio.net:)

ampburner

13th May 2001, 23:26

Note 1
Originally posted by Ice
btw, all moderators moderate skin love.

are they? It doesn't seem to me that they are (could be just me though.) Perhaps their moderation of skinlove isn't as obtrusive as in GenDisc, because skinlove is kind of self-moderating,...so skinlove doesn't really need to be actively moderated. I realise that ALL mods have the authority to view IP's, lock threads etc in here, but that is not the type of moderator we're asking for.

I think what the skinlove regulars really want is, like chad mentioned, another moderator that can get in direct touch with admin, help out with techsupport etc...instead of someone to knock punkass newbies down (leave that part to us ::evilgrin:: ) ie 'law enforcement'

Note 2
Originally posted by ElChevelle
It sounds more like you have personal issues with hawk. What do you define as posting enough here. One, two posts per thread?

I think chad DID have a point there chev... coz I haven't seen hawk posting in here in a long, long time (jaz neither btw)

Note 3
Congratz with the 1000+, J :D:D...here, have a vodka on me ;)

ElChevelle

14th May 2001, 01:54

Originally posted by ampburner
I think chad DID have a point there chev... coz I haven't seen hawk posting in here in a long, long time (jaz neither btw)

So, none of the other mods matter? You would have to post weekly, monthly, daily, hourly to be there? For security? I don't understand why you feel so distant from moderation. Are you so in need of support, you feel lost without constant moderator presence? I would think that you would feel good that moderators have had the least presence here than any other forum. Or is there just some ass kissing going on here, saying you want so and so for a mod?

:)

ElChevelle

14th May 2001, 01:56

If you want to be mod, speak up!

chiquita chad

14th May 2001, 02:09

if you cant appreciate our opinions El, just lock the damn thread

Jayn

14th May 2001, 04:14

Originally posted by chiquita chad
I'm getting tired of Skin Love being a one man, errrrrmmm woman, show.
If you're getting tired of me....then maybe now would be a good time for me to leave.....

*lookin' for Chev's shoulder to cry on*...

pixelpusher

14th May 2001, 05:44

Jayn nobody in this group could ever in this world, be tired of your beautiful soul and creative spirit in this forum. Including Chad. :D

I think this thread has gone far enough.

Just thought I had to say something. We can't have Jayn running around with bad feeling now can we? I still say..

:DThis is the collest place to be:D

Xerxes

14th May 2001, 05:55

Originally posted ...
I'm getting tired of Skin Love being a one man, errrrrmmm woman, show.

But I do think skin love could use a more active mod like jayn.

Hey, I resent that :-/ I'm even a little hurt.
Is it the general opinion that i'm ineffective? I read each
and every post.

If anyone would like, I will post a "Xerxes Approved" message on every thread from now on :( :rolleyes: I hope you people don't think I am not here much- the truth is I'm here daily and rarely miss a day.

I can get in touch with admins- thing is, I rarely have a reason- and if I do, it's already been arranged to be taken care of. If anyone has any requests or messages they
would like to be communicated to higher powers, i'm
very capable, and have done so before for people.

In defense of Hawk606- he has posted backstage that he responds to hordes of tech support e-mails- his presence
on the boards is subtle; as it lessens the amount of tech
questions we get in here.

Elchevelle: What is everyone's beef with you, man? :p

[Edited by Xerxes on 05-14-2001 at 02:17 AM]

THEMike

14th May 2001, 08:30

Ok first off, sorry I've not been posting much anywhere in a while. From January till September, my company has me on assignment to a client onsite, this means my many slack hours are gone as I have to set a good example. Due to the state of the IT industry with the .com crash, and the fact I am in an internet consultancy as my day job, we have to take this crappy assignments to pay the bills. My company just got hit with some redundancies. Sadly one of the people who got taken out was one of my friends I got a job here. Meanwhile, I got promoted :confused:

It's hard for me to take time evenings and weekends to check/post the forums as along with my day job, I also code the site for SnakeNetMetalRadio (http://www.snakenetmetalradio.com), have FuckingBrit on the go, had to move skinmaster's web hosting, and have a new release on the way out, and support to do for my shoutcASP (http://www.shoutcasp.co.uk) project.

Which leads little time for winamp.com forums. It's a shame.

Lately I've been trying harder, I've been checking SHOUTcast, NSIS and Skin Love for the last week or two. My interest is more in the SHOUTcast stuff right now due to the shoutcASP project. And I use NSIS as the installer and am working on a support site for that too! NSIS Support site (http://nsis.skinmaster.co.uk)

I think I've taken on too much!

There is one thing people, especially the moderators seem to forget. What is moderation?

A moderators job as far as I am concerned is to keep the forums on track and deal with problems, not provide tech support. Now skin love rarely has problems, neither does NSIS, SHOUTcast has them slightly more often, and that is the only time a moderator needs to act. Moderators were choses as they had showed a lot of knowledge and posted a lot of answers, but they weren't chosen to keep posting answers.

Sure there are people here who post more answers than any given moderator, but that isn't the criteria for modhood. We have sufficient mods, tho a fair few are finding regularly checking the forums hard at the moment.

If you need to shout at a mod, for some reason there is trouble in here, you can email me. I can at least check my email daily at home, and also check it 3/4 times a day while at work so if there is a problem, and you need to get an alert thro to admin, mail me instead of posting.

mike@skinmaster.co.uk

But I will ignore all tech support requests as I am lazy....

ampburner

14th May 2001, 10:25

Originally posted by ElChevelle
Originally posted by ampburner
I think chad DID have a point there chev... coz I haven't seen hawk posting in here in a long, long time (jaz neither btw)

So, none of the other mods matter? You would have to post weekly, monthly, daily, hourly to be there? For security? I don't understand why you feel so distant from moderation. Are you so in need of support, you feel lost without constant moderator presence? I would think that you would feel good that moderators have had the least presence here than any other forum. Or is there just some ass kissing going on here, saying you want so and so for a mod?

:)

Whoops! did I just step on your ego Chev? :mad: :rolleyes: sjeesh...First of all, this is not just 'ass kissing'. Second: If you want to continue to act like that everytime someone disagrees with you on this subject, then I request you do us all a favor and lock the damn thread indeed... Because to me it seems you're listening, but you're not really LISTENING to what we're saying.

We are not accusing ANY moderators of doing a bad job. We're simply saying that we'd appriciate someone with 'authority' in here that is as actively part of winamp's skinning community as Jayn (who's doing a great job btw) is. Is that so hard to understand?

On another note, I think that we actually DO NOT need another moderator in here. What we need is admin responding to our outcries. For example: the revised skin-rating system: For months the people of skin love have been asking for a panel-based reviewing system. What do we get? A public review system. Like noone even bothered to listen to us.
Now if you take a look at gen disc, you see that, as opposed to skin love, it is a community that IS listend to. There are threads that are being taken into account by nullsoft. For example Justin sometimes posts in there whenever a new version of winamp is released.

The general consensus in skin love is that we're the 'outcasts' of the winamp.com forums. An artist 'clique' that's isolated, and that not to many people (apart from the regulars) care about. That is the real problem. At least, according to me it is.

<note_to_self>
Do not piss off moderators. It's not a good way to make friends ;)
</note_to_self>

ElChevelle

14th May 2001, 11:28

Originally posted by Jayn
*lookin' for Chev's shoulder to cry on*...

E-mail me, babe.
I'm always here for you.:)

Originally posted by Xerxes
Elchevelle: What is everyone's beef with you, man? :p

:confused:
I'm not allowed in skin's? nor to speak my mind, I guess.

ampburner

14th May 2001, 12:26

[accidental post]

ampburner

14th May 2001, 12:28

Originally posted by ElChevelle
:confused:
I'm not allowed in skin's? nor to speak my mind, I guess.
[/B]

Of course you are. I'm just disagreeing with you on the topic sbject. What's the matter chev? Don't want to argue anymore?

You know it makes me sad to see that a thread like this has attracted more attention from mods than all of the skin reviewing outcries combined. Makes you wonder what some mods are for....their own benefit I guess. ( Of course there are a lot exceptions, so no offence to Jayn, you know I love you :p )

note:this post may seem harsh, well actually it is. But it did draw your attention didn't it? :p

THEMike

14th May 2001, 12:46

Originally posted by ampburner
Because to me it seems you're listening, but you're not really LISTENING to what we're saying.

Thank you Opera, or Rikki Lake or whoever ;)

We are not accusing ANY moderators of doing a bad job.

Ah the age old instinct of self-preservation!

What we need is admin responding to our outcries. For example: the revised skin-rating system: For months the people of skin love have been asking for a panel-based reviewing system. What do we get? A public review system. Like noone even bothered to listen to us.
Now if you take a look at gen disc, you see that, as opposed to skin love, it is a community that IS listend to. There are threads that are being taken into account by nullsoft. For example Justin sometimes posts in there whenever a new version of winamp is released.

Ok what you got is what Steve and the web crew thought was asked for looking at the old threads on the subject there were various suggestions. Nullsoft cherrypicked what they liked and could do in a reasonable timescale/effort balance and it's better than what we had but not what the community wanted exactly.

Do the other forums get more shit? NSIS gets Justin's notice right now. AS it says on the NSIS site he will focus on one thing for a while and really go ape about it. Then he'll forget NSIS for ages, ignore the forum and the users until he gets enthused about it again. I know how he feels as a developer. SHOUTcast never gets posts from any of the SHOUTcast dev team, or anyone in Nullsoft. It just runs along. Plugins? Techsupport? rarely.

Gen is an interesting place to drop into if you are bored at work and want a distraction, so NS may drop in, and respond to something particularly interesting one day. Big deal.

Skins not listened to? Damn! Skins are What Made WinAMP Great, and NullSoft knows that. Hell WinAMP 3's skin engine is way more shiney than my greatest dreams. I just can't be bothered to skin it :rolleyes:

The general consensus in skin love is that we're the 'outcasts' of the winamp.com forums. An artist 'clique' that's isolated, and that not to many people (apart from the regulars) care about. That is the real problem. At least, according to me it is.

I don't think so at all. I think you are listend to as much as any other community here. It's a case of when one of the Dev team gains some interest in an area they pop in for a while. What does the community want? Write me a wish list and I'll pass it on.

But the thing you guys perceive is not the way it is.

Justin
Nullsoft
Moderators
Users

Is the power tree as you see it. Only you percive a line.

Justin
Nullsoft
Mods
---------
Users

I'm afraid it's more like:

Justin
Nullsoft
--------
Mods + Users

We have power over you (mwahaha) and we have Watadoo who's job is to listen to us. So theoretically shit goes from you to us to watadoo to Nullsoft and gets done.

But even Watadoo can't get much done, stuff related to the forums yeah sure no problem. He says it can be hard to get NS to pay any attention at all to anything outside his direct sphere of influence (the community).

Want an example? Fine. I wrote the skins tut on winamp.com for my site. NS asked to use it I said sure link me. They didn't. Then they finally added the skin tools links to the damn NSDN site, but linked to my wego site (skinmaster.wego.com) I've been trying to get the link changed ever since. (it is still wrong!!)

You could have one of us mods in here tell bill 4 times a day that this that and the other is what the community wants/needs and he could try and tell Nullsoft what we said, but all that would do is piss the people who are being pestered off completely.

It's a shame but for now that's the way it is.

ANYWAY, write me this list of what's wanted and I'll scream in the right place again.

Mike

THEMike

14th May 2001, 12:56

Originally posted by ampburner
You know it makes me sad to see that a thread like this has attracted more attention from mods than all of the skin reviewing outcries combined.

It's cos it was noticed, a problem was detected and the alarm set of backstage that more attention was needed here.

The mod posts here I guess attempt to be an assesment of what the problem is and an attempt to find out what we need to do.

Makes you wonder what some mods are for....their own benefit I guess.

Well keeping the level of enthusiasm, posting, interest, and helpfulness that got us Modded for a long period of time (when posted out of the office as well!) Is very hard. Some of us are just phased. People who focus in Gen take a lot of shit and have to deal with a lot of crap. So places that more or less run themselves get rewarded with being allowed to run themselves.

According to my user guide:

From THEMike - A Users Guide
...THEMike is designed for world domination and acts of great evil and should not be used for any other purpose.

Use of THEMike for any purposes that could be described as "kind", "good" or in any way benificial to anyone other than THEMike may result in unwanted side effects and invalidates your warranty...

( Of course there are a lot exceptions, so no offence to Jayn, you know I love you :p )

Does no-one realise that Jayn is really the most evil being ever? Nope? Oh well.

ampburner

14th May 2001, 15:18

A whole lot to respond to but here goes.

Originally posted by THEMikeWant an example? Fine. I wrote the skins tut on winamp.com for my site. NS asked to use it I said sure link me. They didn't. Then they finally added the skin tools links to the damn NSDN site, but linked to my wego site (skinmaster.wego.com) I've been trying to get the link changed ever since. (it is still wrong!!)
.........It's a shame but for now that's the way it is.

Well, then at least we agree on that.

Originally posted by THEMikeOriginally posted by ampburner
You know it makes me sad to see that a thread like this has attracted more attention from mods than all of the skin reviewing outcries combined.
It's cos it was noticed, a problem was detected and the alarm set of backstage that more attention was needed here.

Pff...Fact is that moderators are rarely active in skin love. then keetah suggested appointing an extra mod an BAM! Mod activity goes skyhigh. It seems seems to me mod's reacted rather anxiously...I would say it seems like some mods were trying to 'defend their positions', but I trust what you're saying is true, that you're just trying to 'help' etc.

Originally posted by THEMikeOk what you got is what Steve and the web crew thought was asked for looking at the old threads on the subject there were various suggestions. Nullsoft cherrypicked what they liked and could do in a reasonable timescale/effort balance and it's better than what we had but not what the community wanted exactly.

better than what we had? but not what we wanted? More like not AT ALL what we wanted. I haven't seen Steve or any of the web crew in here asking for our opinons. They just replaced the old system with a new one, without asking us what our suggestions were. They might have read some threads but apparently didn't read them that WELL. Because most people in here always voted for a panelbased form of reviewing. And if our demands didn't fit into 'a reasonable timescale/effort balance'? then why were they executed? I'd rather have the old system than a half-assed version of what skinlove-regulars suggested.

Jayn

14th May 2001, 15:47

Originally posted by ampburner
Fact is that moderators are rarely active in skin love.
You have no idea how much that hurts.

THEMike

14th May 2001, 16:00

Originally posted by ampburner

Pff...Fact is that moderators are rarely active in skin love. then keetah suggested appointing an extra mod an BAM! Mod activity goes skyhigh. It seems seems to me mod's reacted rather anxiously...I would say it seems like some mods were trying to 'defend their positions', but I trust what you're saying is true, that you're just trying to 'help' etc.

I think that your theory activity went high was cos someone said we needed another mod because they want to defend their positions is wrong. I think it went sky high because people thought oh dear skin love isn't happy lets sort it out. At least I like to think that. But hell I'm way out of touch, I don't check anything.

better than what we had? but not what we wanted? More like not AT ALL what we wanted. I haven't seen Steve or any of the web crew in here asking for our opinons. They just replaced the old system with a new one, without asking us what our suggestions were. They might have read some threads but apparently didn't read them that WELL. Because most people in here always voted for a panelbased form of reviewing. And if our demands didn't fit into 'a reasonable timescale/effort balance'? then why were they executed? I'd rather have the old system than a half-assed version of what skinlove-regulars suggested.

I seem to remember some kind of offical say here what you want to see change thread, possibly started by Steve. I think they read it digested it and sifted out what they thought were good ideas and what was wanted or needed and fitted in with their visions of what the site should be and what a workable solution was. Maybe they thought a panel system wasn't practical from a coding/maintenance/running point of view.

I seem to remember them asking. And I can understand why they did what they did. They may see the current solution as better. And the ideal (From the SLR point of view) solution as too un-maintainable/workable, too long to build. Perhaps it's a compromise?

Shit I don't know.

Bottom line is I don't think this forum is as ignored and unvalued as you do. I think that on the whole nullsoft ignore the community (not just SL) a little too much, but I can appreciate why. (too busy, too many people pulling in too many different directions). Other sections are just as ignored. Or more so. No-one listens to any of the technical problems with SHOUTcast that are a bit more serious than not having the most ideal skin gallery. (some serious bugs.)

If you do feel that there is anything the admins need to be aware of, Jayn is in here a lot, and others check the threads now and then and pass in what we think NS will listen to and what needs listening to. If there is something urgent I am sure some of the Senior Members/Major Dudes have some of us Mod's email addresses and can raise it like that. I'm always available as a panic button.

Anyway. Lets forget arguing over this issue. You think you need more attention from NullSoft, via a Moderator. Perhaps you will have it for some time until Moderator Apathy sets in some more. While you have our attention, what are the pressing issues? Ok panel based skin reviews, and killing the little shit who votes down every 5* skin. Anything else? Give me the info and I'll pass it on.

Mr Jones

14th May 2001, 17:03

Who wants a beer?, I'd love a beer right about now, drinks are on me, beer beer, get your beer, soft drinks for the underage available on request...

http://www.btinternet.com/~harveynj101/skins/beers2.jpg

Lets all have a beer and relax :)

Home from the day job :)

Mr Jones

14th May 2001, 17:21

Is that a light sabre I spy over to your right?

Wow, is that a new WA3 plug in?, how much?, how much?, I'll swap you it for my bar :D

ampburner

14th May 2001, 17:23

Originally posted by Jayn
Originally posted by ampburner
Fact is that moderators are rarely active in skin love.
You have no idea how much that hurts.

Damn - Obviously I wasn't refering to you. my bad.

Originally posted by THEMike
I seem to remember them asking. And I can understand why they did what they did. They may see the current solution as better. And the ideal (From the SLR point of view) solution as too un-maintainable/workable, too long to build. Perhaps it's a compromise?

As I recall that thread was started by a regular, and not by steve. But I could be mistaken. I still think that even if our proposed solution wasn't maintable or workable, They could have told us so, I mean I now they
're busy, but how much time does it cost to post? Surely Steve can spare two minutes? - But no, they just went and did it, posted an article on the front page and that's it. Communication takes more than one party you know?

Anyway. Lets forget arguing over this issue. You think you need more attention from NullSoft, via a Moderator. Perhaps you will have it for some time until Moderator Apathy sets in some more. While you have our attention, what are the pressing issues? Ok panel based skin reviews, and killing the little shit who votes down every 5* skin. Anything else? Give me the info and I'll pass it on

Ok, judging from this thread you wouldn't say, but skin love IS a very happy place to hang out. Those are the main issues.
Panel based reviewing (Check out a thread called 'help change the rating system' for more details)
, and in the mean time, while we're stuck with the current system...
originally posted by Bobo
since this public review system isn't a very big success I thought i'd post a suggestion that would maybe make it better.

if you instead of taking the average of the public ratings you took the most common one instead, the single bad reviews wouln't matter(like ramon's). you could take this score and average it out with the winamp website reviewer's rating. then only skins rated 4 or 5 by him could get 5. since people tend to give mostly 5 or 0 in their reviews i think this way would be better.

also: banning the idiots that pull down the average ratings for no apparent reason...would be nice.

ampburner

14th May 2001, 17:29

skinme!

14th May 2001, 17:30

Could I er have a diet coke and some salt and vinegar crisps.

Ampburner, I think everybody has made their points. I can see how NS would not have time. It's like a 15 person operation not like Microsoft or shit. What with WA3 and everything going on they are bound to be more than a little busy.

The way I see it, at the moment there's a storm. Little shits fucking up the review system and all but soon it'll pass. When WA3 is released they'll have to change aspects of the skins and plugins departments. Please?!? ;)

Hey, where's my order?

Xerxes

14th May 2001, 17:50

Originally posted by Jayn
You have no idea how much that hurts.

Ditto :(

ampburner

14th May 2001, 17:54

Sjeesh. Xerxes, Jayn...did I or did I not say that there are many exceptions to that. Well, you're two of them. But if you insist on taking my remarks out of context...be my guest ;)

cappy17

14th May 2001, 17:59

My oh my. I wandered off for the weekend, and look what sprouted while I was gone. Heh. Although I was having far more fun in "Gandalf vs Darth Vader" thread, I'm going to stick my neck out here for a couple of reasons.

Firstly, thanks to those who mentioned me at the start of this thread. I am pleasantly surprised and humbled by your opinions of my cyberself. :o But now I'm going to bank on that respect and ask you to take a calming breath and listen, with an open heart, for a bit.

A moderator's function in a forum is to moderate. Or, to put it a bit harsher: to police us. However, we in the skin love forum have this incredibly rare ability to police ourselves (Don't believe me? Spend some time in any other forum on the net. They're cold, ruthless places.) Which means the overlords rarely need to come swooping down. Occasionally a lock needs be clamped down and often it's Jayn who does so. (Jayn: stop being so sensitive just now. I think every mention of moderators in this thread has an assumed "except Jayn" attached to it. :))

Sometimes, Jayn is swamped in actual life or a tidbit of particular interest pops up, another mod will act. Because of this, I know they're out there, watching, waiting to do the technical whatever it is that they do. Xerxes, ofcourse, is around more because part of his technical whatever is skinning. And Jaz, I wonder where he's gone and worry for him.

And maybe that's the point. Maybe we, being the love sharin' bunch that we are, we like to be in touch with our mods more. Like the local beat policeman, just knowing him personally does more good for a neighborhood than a squad of armored police cruisers. Just say hi now and then. Help us put a personality to the happy mod faces Xerxes created. And some one to come through and let us know what winds blow in the lofty upper reaches.

The response this thread generated is not a bad thing. Sure, the mods may react defensively, but let's face it, the tone of this thread is less than cordial if you are a mod. Even the moderator Ma'am, who knows in her heart she is truly loved here, instinctively takes offense. No, the response demonstrates just what they tried to say: things run so smoothly here, that a hiccup like this draws a lot of attention. Try posting a similar gripe in GD and see if you can draw that many mods out the woodwork.

As for the public reviews, we did ask for it. HOWEVER, the panel review was presented as the best choice, but failing that, how about public reviews atleast (the feeling was pretty much "anything would be better than intern reviews"). Admin took a stab at giving us some of what we asked for. And I am saddened by its failure. It has nothing to do with Nullsoft, but the user base that is attracted to the site. Public reviews work much better over at Deskmod. Why the users here are so... infantile, I don't know, maybe it's just the larger population base.

We have been assured that Admin is working to change what in hindsight was a bad idea. It's understandable that they're going about it a little more carefully. Once bitten, twice shy and all that. They are still working with us and tracking the forum.

Finally, maybe what Skin Lovers want, is not new moderators as per the standard definition of mod. Maybe we're looking for a Voice. A conduit to Admin since we have so damn many opinions we'd like to share. ;) An interface, since there is a perceived wall (that little dashed line THEMike drew). More people like Jayn and Xerxes. Not because they aren't good enough, but because we worry about the workload thrust upon them.

If Admin is taking applications for such positions, they've never solicited them in this forum. Who should interested parties contact? But, in closing, am I correct that moderating is a volunteer job?

I'm done now. :)

ampburner

14th May 2001, 18:05

amen

cappy17

14th May 2001, 18:09

And one more thought:

I sure would like to see the sister thread this one must've generated BackStage. heh.

Jonsey: you got any porters in that row of taps? I'll have two pints, please; my throat is dry. :D

chiquita chad

14th May 2001, 19:30

wow
all i asked for was another figure to relay our opinions to admin... Jayn and Xerxes are by far the best two mods at winamp.com ... even though skin love is such a "self-policed zone" jayn and xerxes are constantly helping, along with enforcing the rules... jayn and xerx also have become friends with many members who have comitted cliche crimes (how do i make a skin, im a member now! etc etc)

now seriously... tell me ElChevelle or watadoo... when was the last time hawk606 (I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST HIM SO DONT BRING IT UP AGAIN) relayed one of our ideas to Admin. Skin Love is one of the busiest threads and we have the least working Mods (GD has like 5 mods and Bitchlist has quite a few) All we have are the dependable Jayn and Xerxes...

Now... LOCK THE THREAD

simon snowflake

14th May 2001, 21:30

cappy, ever thought of writing collums for your News-paper?
:D

chiquita chad

15th May 2001, 00:05

watadoo... you have a way of putting things that seem helpful not yelling... why couldnt the other Mods just say that hawk606 is out for a little bit... did they have to give me all the shiz?

THEMike

15th May 2001, 07:17

Originally posted by chiquita chad
why couldnt the other Mods just say that hawk606 is out for a little bit... did they have to give me all the shiz?

Well actually I had no clue, I pay less attention to the backstage threads than I do the ones in here ;)

Xerxes

15th May 2001, 08:16

Chiquita, you might note in my post that i did mention 606:)

Duk

15th May 2001, 18:15

Ok, I hafta ask. Whatza 'backstage thread'? Is this an AIM session among likeminded friends or something? Or does this animal actually exist?

ampburner

15th May 2001, 18:40

LOL they're the backstage forums...for mods etc. only... And while all the mods think that it's safely protected by passwords etc...I know a backdoor . . (No you don't:)....Chev))

[Edited by ElChevelle on 05-15-2001 at 09:54 PM]

Duk

15th May 2001, 18:59

Hmmm ... tantalizing! Forbidden fruit?! :D

ampburner

15th May 2001, 19:27

Originally posted by Duk
Hmmm ... tantalizing! Forbidden fruit?! :D

Ssssshh! Keep your voice down! we don't want the mod squad to find out now do we? Why do you think I posted the link to ,in such a discrete manner, by linking only a single "." ?

ampburner

15th May 2001, 19:29

:mad: Shit I blew my cover!

flatmatt

15th May 2001, 19:37

The Skin Love forum needs more moderators. Our current mods aren't just police. They're our link the the admin. Our voice in Congress. While they don't have a vote, they have a voice (kinda like Puerto Rico).

When we say hawk606 and iomegajaz are not in Skin Love, you give us excuses as to why they're not here. That's not what we're saying. We don't care why they're not here. What we need is someone who will be here. Saying that they're busy doesn't cut it, they're not doing their job, which is why we want another mod.

Jayn's our hero. She:
1. Moderates
2. Does Tech Support
3. Contacts admin about problems we have
4. Reviews, gives tips on, and finds bugs in skins
5. Much, much more
6. And still manages to make incredible skins

And Xerxes does many of these, too.

1 and 3 are tasks that cannot be accomplished by a non-mod. Number 3 is why we need another mod. Thank you.

simon snowflake

15th May 2001, 21:26

Yeah you right.
makes you wonder if she's got like a real life. maybe she's a android who is lurking in a small corned and jumps out on the moment we least expect it and drains us from our body fluids.....nah....that is just my imagination that's gone banana's.....no offend keetha:D

Duk

15th May 2001, 23:43

Originally posted by ampburner
:mad: Shit I blew my cover!

ROFL ... amp dude, yer link was plum busted. Give that hack another crack! :D

chiquita chad

16th May 2001, 00:17

[invisible to Mods/Admin]heres the real link guys:
NOT A LINK! (www.backstage_is_better_than_the_regular_forums_because_we_get_free_prostitutes_and_xerxes_does_little_irish_jigs_for_us.com)
[/invisible to Mods/Admin]

:D ;)

Duk

16th May 2001, 00:36

Originally posted by chiquita chad
[invisible to Mods/Admin]heres the real link guys:
NOT A LINK! (www.backstage_is_better_than_the_regular_forums_because_we_get_free_prostitutes_and_xerxes_does_little_irish_jigs_for_us.com)
[/invisible to Mods/Admin]

:D ;)

Oh you simply MUST do a mouse over on that one! ROFL!!! :D

flatmatt

16th May 2001, 01:30

Although on mouse over, the whole URL's not visible, you have to click it. :D

Although I think it should be edited, on mouse over it could be taken as insulting to Xerxes. :(

Duk

16th May 2001, 05:56

Originally posted by flatmatt
Although I think it should be edited, on mouse over it could be taken as insulting to Xerxes. :(

Hmmm ...

Jayn

16th May 2001, 06:15

Originally posted by simon snowflake
drains us from our body fluids.....
Eeeeewwwww!! Well...there went my dinner plans for tonite. :p

Xerxes

16th May 2001, 07:28

Hey, I HATE river dance :p

ampburner

16th May 2001, 18:19

Aww Chev...why'd ya have to go and do that? Oh well, it doesn't matter, there are other backdoors. I know how to get in...well allmost. I still have to figure out how I can get past Mika the llama , Mike's evil twin sister :p

ElChevelle

16th May 2001, 19:10

:p:D:p

iomegajaz

20th May 2001, 03:07

Originally posted by cappy17
And Jaz, I wonder where he's gone and worry for him.

And maybe that's the point. Maybe we, being the love sharin' bunch that we are, we like to be in touch with our mods more. Like the local beat policeman, just knowing him personally does more good for a neighborhood than a squad of armored police cruisers. Just say hi now and then. Help us put a personality to the happy mod faces Xerxes created. And some one to come through and let us know what winds blow in the lofty upper reaches.

a) Hi.
b) I no longer have a reliable internet connection to speak of, and am therefore reliant on Afro's willingness to let me use his PC for an hour or two per weekend so I can check my mail and these forums.
c) I'm fine (physically, not necessarily mentally :)) so no need to worry in that dept. Cappy, having said that your concern is appreciated. Thanks for caring mate :).
d) Jayn does a kickass job. I don't. So sue me.
e) You (someone) made a good point about having (possibly additional) mods here who can actually take the time each day to ensure some resemblance of order is achieved. I'm happy to give up my Skin Love place if someone else can take it.
f) You all should understand just how much it truly does suck not being able to come here as often as I'd like. I miss this place. I'm gonna go now - I'll be back some time in the future.

Later mah people. :)
-jaz

BullGawD

21st May 2001, 07:55

Wow. I've been avoiding this thread, because by the time I noticed it it was well underway, plus it sounded like a very touchy subject. But, it's still here after a week, and it's a very interesting read in one sitting.

First of all, of all the comments I read, I specifically remember agreeing with everything Cappy said, right down to the porter. ;)

Second of all, thanks to Pixelpusher for that recomendation waaay back at the beginning. I'm sincerely flattered, though I noticed no was quick to second his third. ;) Perhaps it was because things quickly got heated which leads me to my:

Third point, my comments. (Which do have a point, I like to think) I believe, as it appears most of you do, that about everyone had a valid, useful point to make here. I'll confess, when I started posting, it took me a few days to realize that Xerxes and Jayn were mods. They epitomized for me the type of people I wanted to be friends with - Jayn with her clipboarded but sincere kindness, and Xerxes with his true appreciation for art and culture. (This is not at all to exclude all the other regulars, but I'm simply talking about mods right now.)

Once I took a look at the mod list, I can't tell you how pleased I was, because not only did I think that those two were good mod material, but because none of the other listed mods were around playing god. What's more, when they did show up, they still didn't play god, they responded usefully.

And here at last is my point. (I think.) Most other forums I've browsed have been based on talking. They are outlets for people to spew, to demand recognition, to assert their own views, at the cost of others. Take a look at any open religious forum, or close to home, Gen. Disc. They're festering pools of self-absorbed humanity, something I try to avoid as much as possible. This forum, on the other hand, is based extremely on cooperation and response. People submitted their opinions and suggestions as such. One of the first threads I became involved in was the Easter Skin Thread. In a net of adolescent posturing, this truly is a community, and that is the reason I've stuck around, to the chagrin of some I'm sure. ;) But seriously, go search for members and sort by posts. Take a look and see how many we have in the top 100. People stick around here, and they do so because they are appreciated.

In that vien, and in Keeta's defense, no one likes a mayor who doesn't shop on main street. I personally do not see the need for a new mod, since most of us regulars pretty much conduct ourselves as a mod should, towards one another and the newbies. Regarding communication to Admin, you could argue that more mods equals more influence, but for one thing, I don't honestly see GD making the requests that we make. Furthermore, I'll be the first to admit we get a little carried away in our demands, or rather, in what we expect in response to our demands. Not to mention, I don't really like the way we dump all of that stuff off on the Mods. Granted, it's their job, but following the logic I laid out, shouldn't 20 additional voices e-mailing for the same thing add a little punch to their Mod -> Watadoo email?

Well shit, this is a long comment, and looking back, I'm not sure I do have a point after all. I hope maybe you can get the jist of what I'm saying; I'm afraid others have already said it better and more succinctly within this thread than I have. I think I mean that these are the kinds of issues that can be very distructive, when they are in reality just as trivial as MJ's desktop post. I'm simply happy that there's a place like this where I can discuss such issues with other people in some semblance of rational exchange.

[Edited by BullGawD on 05-21-2001 at 04:15 AM]