Dhtml

[mikekantor]

I will admit that I don't know as much a I'd like to about the new skinning techniques, but I'm learning something new everyday... as I make progress with my skin.

The question is, wouldn't it be easier to skin Winamp using DHTML, with DIV tags, JavaScript, and CSS running the whole thing...

As far as I know, the same stuff can be done (mouse cursors, tables, graphics, events, dragging, etc)... and maybe even more, Flash could be implemented as part of the skin.

If I have the completely wrong idea of how this works, please let me know so I won't be confused.

[mark e]

Winamp skins & Dhtml... OMFG... :eek: :confused:

[s0be]

the major problem I see with using DHTML/Jscript is that there is no REAL accepted standard in it. So they(nullsoft) would have to choose between what evil they want(I'm guessing they'd follow the NS standard, some tickiling hint there) and why limit yourself to what options are offered by somone elses standards?

you can't really compile jscript and dhtml together either. Maybe somone will write a really killer library to share but not want to give away the code.

or maybe somone got bored or stuck on another problem so they wrote a scripting engine to take their mind off of the problem.

or maybe I'm just rambling.

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[mikekantor]

As soon as NS was mentioned, I got goose bumps that just shook the idea out of me. MS, on the other hand, has put quite a lot of work into it. Just look at what MSDN shows about all the neat things that can be done with DHTML.

It would have been nice to use vector-graphics that flash can provide, especially since it's a stretchable skin.

[s0be]

The problem with MS' standards are that they aren't standards. My browser of choice is mozilla(or konqueror in a pinch) and pages designed to follow MS' standards don't always look proper. Particularly frameset rendering.

ON to point 2...

they problem with vector graphics is, for them to look good, you have to have a large number of points and the engine to render them has to be of an order of magnitude higher than that to render a png or a jpeg.

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P.S. 10 bonus magic browny points for the first person who can corectly give me the name of the person who came up with the jpeg compression scheme.

[Brendo_91]

Originally posted by s0bellzard
you can't really compile jscript and dhtml together either.

dhtml IS jscript... dhtml is a combination of the aforementioned CSS, jscript, div tags etc...

[mikekantor]

uhh... mr. Joint Photographic Experts Group?

I went looking all over the net and couldn't find it. But I did find a lot of other neat info about JPEG that I didn't know before!

[simarilius]

wasnt it that huffman bloke? or at least he came up with the compression scheme i think.

[s0be]

ding ding ding, gutter tell him what he's won.

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(and I'm aware of what DHTML/JS/DIVs do, I was saying, you can't compile all your stuff into it keeping it closed source)

[Ice]

i was thinking of this on the shitter yesterday... it would be pretty awesome to incorperate flash into winamp, since macromedia did release the source to it...

but the problem with vector graphics is that they require some pretty intense cpu usage when you get into scaling and shading... even basic stuff could completely bog down the newest computers... in fact, when i was at MATC taking a comercial arts class, using illustrator, the G4 i was using couldn't refresh a picture i drew in under 7 seconds... it was only a picture of a car... once you added in the actual audio decoding, you'd need a supercomputer.

while using HTML and CSS and JAVA would reduce the learning curve, it wouldn't be as efficient and as someone already said--there is no real standard for it.

I really think that maki is the best solution... it uses the same principles from other languages (C++, or PHP).. and is relativly easy to learn.

[Brennan]

And if someone wanted to port macromedia or something as a component, we would be very happy with that someone. They might even get a hat.


--Brennan

[Gonzotek]

How hard could it be to write a flash component, and simply have it available on the WA website for skinners and user's of flash-enabled skins? Script the skin to detect if the flash component is available and use it if present, or if not the skin can either inform the user and assist them to download it -or- display a non-flashed skin, just like websites. A by-product of the flash component would be the ability for winamp to play flash movies and games and junk. Irfanview has a flash plugin that I've never had a problem using...can't see any technical resaon this wouldn't work. Anyone else?


EDIT: My brother walked in and distracted me for a few mins....and Brennan beat me to the punchline...:( ;) :D
-=Gonzotek=-

[mikekantor]

A flash component would rock.

People could even make visualizations with smart clips that take input about the sound and use it to display animations.

[jarsonic]

Somebody get on it! :D

I would, but I can't code... :D

- Jarsonic

[lunarboy1]

XML works better then DHTML because xml is completely open to what you want to do. DHTML definetly has some limits. Check out http://www.dynamicdrive.com to see what cool things DHTML can do, however I would rather stay with a XML based skin system.

[mikekantor]

I just want to mention that JavaScript can interact with XML files, so if there was a DHTML-based Winamp, XML would not have to be excluded.

Just as there are many incredible creations at dynamicdrive.com, I have no doubt that we will see no less from all the people who are going to take a serious approach to Wasabi and XML.

[danbee]

dhtml skins :eek: i for one wouldn't want to try writing one. i thing xml and png files work perfectly.

[s0be]

if we're gonig to incorperate a Vector based graphic format, it should be AI or PS format. Unless somone completely adds the ability to use Flash for skinning, AI and PS have less overhead as it goes to the storage of points in vectors.

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[mikekantor]

The advantage of Flash is animation and ActionScript. And Flash 5 has XML capabilities...

Plus I'm not sure if anybody cares about the file size of skins at this point, have you seen the sizes of these png files?! It's insane. Any vector graphics, Flash, Freehand, or AI would be a welcome addition.

[Gonzotek]

Some wa3 skins are small, it's really up to the skinner to optimize the whole structure of their skin, compressing png's that can stand to be compressed (ie. compress only if compressing doesn't cause them to look shitty) and not including any unneeded files or extra whitespace in files. Steve's new skin is a good example of minimalistic skinning.

But I do agree that if WA3 could use some form of vector graphic, that would indeed rock; there are so many ways they could be put to use in a skin.

-=Gonzotek=-

[mikekantor]

You know what's weird about that... when I export transperent PNGs from Photoshop 6.0.1, it does not give me a compression menu.

[mikekantor]

And here is another weird thing:

When i first heard that WA3 would be scalable, the first hing that popped into my mind was "vectors".

Did this not pop into the developer's minds... or did they ignore it because of a technical issue (like overhead)? Tiled PNGs are ok and all, but not really usefull for most skinners.

[CraigF]

so you want plain or gradiant vector graphics? last i checked, it would be a REAL bitch to add texture to vector skins, which would basically end up being tiled raster graphics anyway.

[Ice]

though, you could make some wicked cartoonish looking skins.

[QHOBBES]

Just saying that I'm back, WinXP is a bitch (bet you didn't see that
one coming...)

[mikekantor]

WinXP is great man, I've been running it sense Whistler way back in late 2000.

I just hope you're not using the Home version, those tend to be full of many useless things.