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Hatred for bush grows stronger....

Quote:

CNN) -- The Bush administration began planning to use U.S. troops to invade Iraq within days after the former Texas governor entered the White House three years ago, former Treasury Secretary Paul O'Neill told CBS News' 60 Minutes.

"From the very beginning, there was a conviction that Saddam Hussein was a bad person and that he needed to go," O'Neill told CBS, according to excerpts released Saturday by the network. "For me, the notion of pre-emption, that the U.S. has the unilateral right to do whatever we decide to do, is a really huge leap."

O'Neill, who served nearly two years in Bush's Cabinet, was asked to resign by the White House in December 2002 over differences he had with the president's tax cuts. O'Neill was the main source for "The Price of Loyalty: George W. Bush, the White House, and the Education of Paul O'Neill," by former Wall Street Journal reporter Ron Suskind.

The CBS report is scheduled to be broadcast Sunday night; the book is to be released Tuesday by publisher Simon & Schuster.

Suskind said O'Neill and other White House insiders gave him documents showing that in early 2001 the administration was already considering the use of force to oust Saddam, as well as planning for the aftermath.

"There are memos," Suskind told the network. "One of them marked 'secret' says 'Plan for Post-Saddam Iraq.'"

Suskind cited a Pentagon document titled "Foreign Suitors For Iraqi Oilfield Contracts," which, he said, outlines areas of oil exploration. "It talks about contractors around the world from ... 30, 40 countries and which ones have what intentions on oil in Iraq."

In the book, O'Neill is quoted as saying he was surprised that no one in a National Security Council meeting asked why Iraq should be invaded.

"It was all about finding a way to do it. That was the tone of it. The president saying 'Go find me a way to do this,'" O'Neill said.

Suskind also described a White House meeting in which he said Bush seemed to waver about going forward with a second round of tax cuts.

"Haven't we already given money to rich people... Shouldn't we be giving money to the middle?" Suskind says Bush asked, according to what CBS called a "nearly verbatim" transcript of an economic team meeting Suskind said he obtained from someone at the meeting.

O'Neill also said in the book that President Bush "was like a blind man in a roomful of deaf people" during Cabinet meetings.

One-on-one meetings were no different, O'Neill told the network.

Describing his first such meeting with Bush, O'Neill said, "I went in with a long list of things to talk about and, I thought, to engage [him] on. ... I was surprised it turned out me talking and the president just listening. It was mostly a monologue."

White House spokesman Scott McClellan brushed off O'Neill's criticism.

"We appreciate his service, but we are not in the business of doing book reviews," he told reporters. "It appears that the world according to Mr. O'Neill is more about trying to justify his own opinion than looking at the reality of the results we are achieving on behalf of the American people. The president will continue to be forward-looking, focusing on building upon the results we are achieving to strengthen the economy and making the world a safer and better place."

A senior administration official, who asked not to be named, expressed bewilderment at O'Neill's comments on the alleged war plans.

"The treasury secretary is not in the position to have access to that kind of information, where he can make observations of that nature," the official said. "This is a head-scratcher."

Even before the interview is broadcast, the topic became grist for election-year politics.

Former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean, who is the early front-runner for the Democratic presidential nomination, issued a statement in response.

"I've always said the president had failed to make the case to go to war with Iraq," Dean said. "My Democratic opponents reached a different conclusion, and in the process, they failed to ask the difficult questions. Now, after the fact, we are learning new information about the true circumstances of the Bush administration's push for war, this time, by one of his former Cabinet secretaries.

"The country deserves to know -- and the president needs to answer -- why the American people were presented with misleading or manufactured intelligence as to why going to war with Iraq was necessary."

Democratic Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts also issued a statement. In 2002, Kerry voted to support a resolution giving Bush authority to wage war against Iraq if it didn't dismantle its presumed illegal weapons program.

"These are very serious charges. It would mean [Bush administration officials] were dead-set on going to war alone since almost the day they took office and deliberately lied to the American people, Congress, and the world," Kerry said. "It would mean that for purely ideological reasons they planned on putting American troops in a shooting gallery, occupying an Arab country almost alone. The White House needs to answer these charges truthfully because they threaten to shatter [its] already damaged credibility as never before."

"He has WMD!" :rolleyes:

Words cannot express how much I hate this man.

Vermont Governor Dean is a slick fuck. I trust not a word of him. Whether or not it was planned is a moot point at this juncture unless you're looking for a fight.
I figured we'd eventually go after saddam anyway. You can't tell me it wasn't on any republican presidents agenda, not just GW's.
I like how The Daily Show calls the democrats for president race "Race From The White House." Dean is from Vermont, and I don't know if you've ever been there, but it doesn't exactly sum up the United States. He's a backwoods governor who someone paid a lot of money to run and he's as slick as Clinton and less intelligent.
Who else is there to vote for on that side? Al Sharpton?

That's Why I vote for who I vote for, because despite "throwing my vote away" on a third party, at least I can say I didn't vote for whatever fuck takes the throne.

iraq was quite obviously a target for the bush administration from day 1. terrorism was a lame, terrible excuse for invasion. i'd have rather they'd just told the truth.

as for the guy, he may or may not be telling the truth. i do like this quote though:

Quote:

"Haven't we already given money to rich people... Shouldn't we be giving money to the middle?"

i sincerely hope that's real. it's one of the most intelligent things he's been reported to have said.

Bush needs to be burned to the stake.

Watched a interview with Joe Lieberman on CNN today. He supported Bush war against Iraq, stating he believed Saddam was a threat to America.

I simply don't understand that Argument, which Bush have made aswell.

Can anyone please explain how a country thousands of Kilometers away with no Intercontinental Missles be a threat to the US. If anyone should be worried it should be Israel or the countries of Southern Europe. But how the flying fuck could he ever have been a threat to the United States?

Quote:

Originally posted by ertmann|CPH
Watched a interview with Joe Lieberman on CNN today. He supported Bush war against Iraq, stating he believed Saddam was a threat to America.

I simply don't understand that Argument, which Bush have made aswell.

Can anyone please explain how a country thousands of Kilometers away with no Intercontinental Missles be a threat to the US. If anyone should be worried it should be Israel or the countries of Southern Europe. But how the flying fuck could he ever have been a threat to the United States?

I think it was dependent on the 'Saddam's support of terrorism' argument that zootm brought up, which isn't panning out.

Quote:

Originally posted by zootm

as for the guy, he may or may not be telling the truth. i do like this quote though:

i sincerely hope that's real. it's one of the most intelligent things he's been reported to have said.

I don't. What if you were upper middle class and they charged you more money for having a better job? That's stupid. If you won the lottery today, you'd be taxed into only getting only 3/4 of it. I'm not a share the money you made type person, I don't believe in communism or socialism. I want to be successful and get stuff, not live like my neighbor who does nothing but live off the government.

A thick, corrupt, semi-literate moron in charge of the worlds largest stockpile of WMD being led around by the nose by a couple self serving, crooked, immoral war mongers.
Poor people being sluaghtered on both sides so they can get rich.

They are all a bunch of dirty bastards.

Bushin30Seconds

Remove him from power as fast as possible!

Quote:

Originally posted by Dawg4Life2K1
I think it was dependent on the 'Saddam's support of terrorism' argument that zootm brought up, which isn't panning out.

but but but the terrorism argument wasn't used before they failed to get hard evidence about saddam having WMD's...

well, i must be stupid, but i just don't get it.

Quote:

Originally posted by Fickle
I don't. What if you were upper middle class and they charged you more money for having a better job? That's stupid. If you won the lottery today, you'd be taxed into only getting only 3/4 of it. I'm not a share the money you made type person, I don't believe in communism or socialism. I want to be successful and get stuff, not live like my neighbor who does nothing but live off the government.

i pay 39% tax because i'm a poor student who as many other student's just manage to stay afloat economicaly. My dad pays 63% tax because he's financially well off. Which is fair because 1 crown, Euro , Dollar or whatever means a hell of alot more to me than to him.

But im just a silly european socialist.

Quote:

i hope it's real because it's regressing on all of his policies, showing he doesn't have a firm grasp of his own politics. i think that's amusing.

The thing that the article proved to me was that Bush essentially made up that Saddam was a threat to the US and the World, that he had connection to Al Qaeda, and Saddam had WMD.

If from practically day 1 in office Bush started plotting out the 'conflict' in Iraq, and post conflict Iraq, then his points he made to go to war are moot. The planning began before 9/11. Show me anytime in his campaigning for president in '00, or before 9/11 when he talked about terrorism, and the need to remove Saddam.

Gotta love it,

The Bin Laden family(not Osama but still his relatives) holds a 25% stake in Bush' Oil Company.

That Sudan offered to hand Bin Laden over to US back in the 90's , (but the US refused, because the Saudi's pressed for them not to)

That a former FBI chief said that the feds found details of the september 11th plot, during the invistagation of the first bombing of WTC, but decided not to investigate it futher.

And that the CIA have sponsered both Saddam and Osama Bin Laden.

who says american's don't appriciate irony. :D

fickle-
Dean built a reputation in VT for being an honest leader, never avoiding hard issues. I've seen him speak in small group settings, and he defended decisions unpopular to those people directly. He's a too conservative for my taste, but he's one of the few politicians I trust. If you're measuring intellingence relative to our current leader, I am amazed . . It's true VT is representative of the country on the whole, but from here that seems to be a good thing. Too bad we didn't stay an independent republic.

Quote:

Vermont Governor Dean is a slick fuck. I trust not a word of him. Whether or not it was planned is a moot point at this juncture unless you're looking for a fight. I figured we'd eventually go after saddam anyway. You can't tell me it wasn't on any republican presidents agenda, not just GW's. I like how The Daily Show calls the democrats for president race "Race From The White House." Dean is from Vermont, and I don't know if you've ever been there, but it doesn't exactly sum up the United States. He's a backwoods governor who someone paid a lot of money to run and he's as slick as Clinton and less intelligent.

The guy talks and acts like Jim McGreevey, Governor of My own state, who used State taxes to buy a fleet of helicopters and to have them run him back and forth to his meetings.
He took a vacation to Ireland after he delayed our home-owner rebate checks.
He broke his ankle on an Ocean City Beach. I've seen interviews with Dean, I've watched his well-orchestrated moves and planned interjections. He's a slick fuck. I don't like him. I'm surprised that anyone trusts him, he's a snake. Just look at his face when he's trying to make one of his conviluded points.

I think of it as finishing what we started. Iraqi people are already organising nation wide cacuses to set up a more permanant government.

I hate the administration more than I hate Bush. I think of him as being pushed into things he does not want to do by people manipulating him.

Quote:

...... making the world a safer and better place."...

I felt safer before ye let that lunatic commit the barbaric acts that he has. saddam may have been barbaric but bush calling him that is beyond me.

we're talking about a guy who in his term in office as governor personally signed away the lives of a number of people. 1 of them being a medically confirmed imbecile who was incable of mature thought and although yes that persons crime was horrific was medically incapable of understanding what the fuck he had done and the resulting consequences of thos eactions. Yet this brainless moron is spouting at me about keeping the world safe!

I would not trust the decision of this cunt or his 'Nazi fucking Henchmen'. :mad:

hey could wrap me in the safest secure cotton wool possible and I'd still be worried.

Do the world a favour for fucks sake before he makes an even bigger fucking mess SAck the prick and put him where he belongs -- In a nut house along with the other morons he has advising him..

Oh I am gonna keep you safe ..we are gonna go attacking other Country's and fuck general opinion against it which happened to be like probably 85% of the fucking planet, Oh No fuck that we are gonna do it anyway... get of it amn

the guy got into office by the most duvious result and contrived set-up - fucking illegally and his whole non-domestic policy has been nothing but Illegal goning by the evidence to date.

Oh yeah thats Right 6 -7 mnths ago or what ever Thats it we have Liberated Iraq... YaY!!! Three Cheers-- Like and since this so calledliberation - More Soldiers on all sides have been killed (On a daily basis) than during the so called 'Actual Conflict'.
That really looks like the actions of a liberated fucking people.. this is the same kind of action carried out by the partisans of ww2 or the freedom fighters of Afghanistan during the Russian occupation, who America supported against the great Russian oppressor (Communist at that- even worse)....

I am gonna shut-up now as I am gonna end up really mad. My apoligies for the language ..but last thing I will say is this guy deserves to be in one place..same place as Hussein - JAIL!! PERIOD!Along with his fucking brady bunch colon pow-wow and that rice? No comment but she is an insult to intelligence.

Sorry but I am starting to get so pissed at this bunch of pratts....

I disagree with Smeggles statement.

Disagree all you like
but you could read some ot this stuff first..

Related stories:

NY Times:
"The White House said tonight that President Bush had been warned by American intelligence agencies
in early August that Osama bin Laden was seeking to hijack aircraft..."
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/05/16/politics/16INQU.html

CNN:
"President Bush's daily intelligence briefings in the weeks leading up to the September 11
terror attacks included a warning of the possibility that Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network
would attempt to hijack a U.S.-based airliner, senior administration officials said Wednesday"
http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/05/15/bus....11/index.html

UK Guardian:
"George Bush received specific warnings in the weeks before 11 September that an attack
inside the United States was being planned by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaeda network,
US government sources said yesterday…. The memo received by Bush on 6 August contained
unconfirmed information passed on by British intelligence in 1998 revealing that al-Qaeda
operatives had discussed hijacking a plane to negotiate the release of Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman,
the Muslim cleric imprisoned in America for his part in a plot to blow up the World Trade
Centre in 1993."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september1...718312,00.html

Sunday Herald:
"Britain gave President Bush a categorical warning to expect multiple airline hijackings
by the al-Qaeda network a month before the September 11 attacks which killed nearly 3000 people
and triggered the international war against terrorism."
http://www.sundayherald.com/24822

Village Voice:
"The U.S. government had received repeated warnings of impending attacks—and attacks using
planes directed at New York and Washington—for several years. The government never told us
about what it knew was coming."
http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0332/mondo4.php

AP:
"...the briefing given to the president a month before the suicide hijackings included
recent intelligence that al-Qaida was planning to send operatives to the United States to
carry out an attack using high explosives."
http://www.sunspot.net/business/nati...l=bal-business
-headlines

MSNBC:
"One such CIA briefing, in July 2001, was particularly chilling and prophetic. It predicted
that Osama bin Laden was about to launch a terrorist strike 'in the coming weeks,'
the congressional investigators found. The intelligence briefing went on to say: 'The attack
will be spectacular and designed to inflict mass casualties against U.S. facilities or
interests. Attack preparations have been made. Attack will occur with little or no warning.'"
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3067907/

MSN: Condoleezza Rice's False Statement:
A: "The overwhelming bulk of the evidence was that this was an attack that was likely to
take place overseas."
- White House National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice, in a May 16 news briefing.

B: "Bin Laden Determined to Strike in U.S."
- Title of the CIA's Aug. 6 briefing memo to President Bush . . . http://slate.msn.com/?id=2066154

Newsweek:
"On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled
travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns."
http://www.msnbc.com/news/629606.asp (link dead)

SF Gate:
For Mayor Willie Brown, the first signs that something was amiss came late Monday when
he got a call from what he described as his airport security - - a full eight hours
before yesterday's string of terrorist attacks -- advising him that Americans should
be cautious about their air travel.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...2/MN229389.DTL

Florida State: Jeb Bush Declares Martial Law 9-7-01
"Based on the potential massive damage to life and property that may result from
an act of terrorism at a Florida port, the necessity to protect life and property
from such acts of terrorism..."
http://www.state.fl.us/eog_new/eog/o...-09-07-01.html

CBS News: "In response to inquiries from CBS News over why Ashcroft was traveling
exclusively by leased jet aircraft instead of commercial airlines, the Justice Department
cited what it called a "threat assessment" by the FBI, and said Ashcroft has been advised
to travel only by private jet for the remainder of his term."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/...le303601.shtml

UK Independent: "Weeks before the terrorist attacks on 11 September, the United States
and the United Nations ignored warnings from a secret Taliban emissary that Osama bin
Laden was planning a huge attack on American soil."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=331115

NY Times: "Egyptian intelligence warned American officials about a week before Sept. 11
that Osama bin Laden's network was in the advance stages of executing a significant
operation against an American target, President Hosni Mubarak said in an interview on Sunday."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstrac...AF0894DA404482

Intl. Herald Tribune: "When the hubbub about what the White House did or didn't know
before Sept. 11 dies down, Congressional or other investigators should consider the
specific warnings that friendly Arab intelligence services sent to Washington in the
summer of 2001."
http://www.iht.com/articles/58269.html

UK News-Telegraph: Israeli intelligence officials say that they warned their
counterparts in the United States last month that large-scale terrorist attacks
on highly visible targets on the American mainland were imminent."
http://news.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;$sessionid$52PMOXQAADW5PQFIQMGSFFOAVCBQWIV0?xml=/news/2001/09/16/wcia16.xml&sSheet=/news/2001/09/16/ixhome

NY Post: "A Minnesota FBI agent investigating Zacarias Moussaoui testified
yesterday that he notified the Secret Service weeks before Sept. 11 that a
terror team might hijack a plane and 'hit the nation's capital.'"
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/57848.htm

Yahoo News: "An FBI supervisor, sounding a prophetic pre-Sept. 11 alarm, warned
FBI headquarters that student pilot Zacarias Moussaoui was so dangerous he might
'take control of a plane and fly it into the World Trade Center,'
a congressional investigator said in a report Tuesday."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...s_intelligence

Independent: "American intelligence received many more clues before the 11 September
attacks than previously disclosed, that terrorists might hijack planes and turn them
into weapons, a joint congressional committee was told yesterday."
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/...p?story=334633

Washington Post: "U.S. intelligence agencies received many more indications than
previously disclosed that Osama bin Laden's terrorist network was planning imminent
"spectacular" attacks in the summer of 2001 aimed at inflicting mass casualties."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...2002Sep18.html

Yahoo News: "U.S. intelligence agencies picked up threats of attacks inside the United States and of using airplanes as weapons during the spring and summer before last year's Sept. 11 attacks, but were more focused on the possibility of an assault overseas, a congressional source said on Tuesday."
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...ntelligence_dc

Vanity Fair: "Patrick Tyler of the New York Times is reporting from Washington:
'In the first days after the attacks on Sept. 11, the Saudi Arabian ambasador
to Washington, Prince Bandar ibn Sultan, supervised the urgent evacuation of 24
members of Osama bin Laden's extended family from the United States fearing they might
be subjected to violence.'"
http://www.guerrillanews.com/cgi-bin...5&o=0&part=all

Sydney Morning Herald: "US special agents were told to back off the bin Laden family
and the Saudi royals soon after George Bush became president, although that has all
changed since September 11, it was reported today."
http://www.old.smh.com.au/news/0111/.../world100.html

Ha'aretz Daily: "Odigo, the instant messaging service, says that two of its
workers received messages two hours before the Twin Towers attack on September 11
predicting the attack would happen, and the company has been cooperating with
Israeli and American law enforcement, including the FBI, in trying to find the original
sender of the message predicting the attack."
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pa...l?itemNo=77744

NY Times: "Richard Clarke, who ran White House crisis team after Sept 11 terror attacks,
says top White House officials personally approved evacuation of dozens of influential Saudis,
including relatives of Osama bin Laden, from United States in days after Sept 11, when most
flights were grounded." http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/090503A.shtml

Tampa Tribune: The hastily arranged flight out of Raytheon Airport Services,
a private hangar on the outskirts of Tampa International Airport, was anything
but ordinary. It lifted off the tarmac at a time when every private plane in the
nation was grounded due to safety concerns after the Sept. 11 attacks. "
http://www.dirtybush.com/connectthesedots.html

UK Minister: "...it is not surprising that some have seen the US failure to avert
the 9/11 attacks as creating an invaluable pretext for attacking Afghanistan in a
war that had clearly already been well planned in advance."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/september1...036588,00.html

Marvin Bush ran security company in charge of WTC, Dulles Airport and United Airlines

"Marvin P. Bush, the president’s younger brother, was a principal in a company called
Securacom that provided security for the World Trade Center, United Airlines, and Dulles
International Airport. The company, Burns noted, was backed by KuwAm, a Kuwaiti-American
investment firm on whose board Marvin Burns also served."

http://www.utne.com/web_special/web_...s/10292-1.html

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/911security.html

I stand totally by what I said and the Guy is a Moron, Murderer and In office totally Illegally. The disgusting individuals like colon powell and rice..I have never heard a true word out of either of the clowns.

@smeggle: holy shit:eek:

i know this is sorta old because I'm referring to stuff near the beginning of the thread, but....

Attacking Iraq due to 'links between Saddam and Osama' or whatever it was was rediculous. Osama hates(hated?) Saddam because Saddam is(sry, was) a very secular leader who just wanted fame while Osama is/was a Fundamentalist. Of course, You will never hear anything along those lines from anybody in the white house.....

I still want to know how a campaign against Bin Laden and Afghaistan can be turned around to go after Iraq again? yes I do not deny something had to be done about that prat Saddam but as he had in no way threatened or his country had in no way threatened any of the western world and that as limited as it was, Iraq was complying with the U.N. resolution, how can anyone see that what happened (and is happening) as legal?

I saw another story in yahoo today about how the rate of suicide amongst U.S. soldiers in the conflict is at an all time high! great ..if the Iraqi's don't shoot your guy's there gonna do it them sleves...like guy's ..come on...put a stop to the idiot.. I just saw Bush on telly prattling on about having robots and such like on the moon by 2020 and then on to mars....They get a few pics (supposedly from Mars - looks more like the star wars filmset to me)and it gives him the excuse to commit more of your money (That you don't have) towarsd what? sweet fuck all ...still I suppose it's better than letting the moron lose on Iran and the rest like he really wanted to...do us all a favour come next election ..whatever you do ..

DO NOT PUT THIS MONSTER BACK IN POWER- He's worse than fucking any Hussein - he scares me more than they do anyway....

Where is fox news in that list?

In my not so humbe oppnin after all the crap that came out on 60 mins. Mostly refering to bush walking in to the white house saying "Find me a way to get sadam" is complet bull shit. How the hell did we go from terrorist in Afganastan to Iraq?? If you ask me Daddy Bush told this one "your gonna run for preseident and then your gonna finish my war" ALl that this was is him finishing daddys war and it makes me sick. So please ANYONE but Bush in 2004.

Quote:

... he scares me more than they do anyway....

Same feeling here Smeggle.

I don't even lay the blame exclusively with the Bush administration, America scared me throughout the Cold War and Vietnam. Manufacturing consent has always been a large part of politics and Kissinger perfected the art in US foreign policy. The man hadn't a truthfull bone in his body and they gave him the Nobel Peace Prize :rolleyes:
What's even more frightning is that the American public get suckered into it every time, and sadly the same is increasingly true here in the UK.

Maybe in the rest of the world we actually feel the results of this sort of brinkmanship in a way that America never has, 9/11 was probably the closest the US has got to tasting the results of their own actions. The level of what can be described as 'courageous' action has certainly dropped since Vietnam, the US is much more of a bully boy now.

My views on this haven't changed in the last 40 years, if any country is going to bring this poor old planet of ours to it's knees it will be America.

UJ

Terror and Just Response by Noam Chomsky

Not about bush, but instead Blair: The Fall And Rise Of Liberal England

Expand your mind, Push for fairness and accuracy in reporting.

How the media works. Read about the war on terror.

edit: ujay makes good points, specifically about Manufacturing Consent. It's a brilliant book that all should read. Also contrary to popular perception, the real Rogue States in the world today are not the dictator-led developing countries we hear about in the news, but the United States and its allies. He challenges the legal and humanitarian reasons given to justify intervention in global conflicts in order to reveal the West's shameless reliance on the rule of force. He examines NATO's intervention in Kosovo, the crisis in East Timor, and US involvement in the Middle East, Southeast Asia and Latin America. Chomsky relies on both historical context and recently released government documents to trace the paths of self-interest and domination that fuelled these violent regional conflicts. Throughout, he reveals the United States's increasingly open dismissal of the United Nations and international legal precedent in justifying its motives and actions. Characteristically incisive and provocative, Chomsky demonstrates that the rule of law has been reduced to farce.

I'm already putting together a strategy for getting through the election this year without going nuts with white hot, seething, murderous, kill-your-TV BUSH-HATE!

BTW I'm supporting Howard cause, no matter what the outcome of the election, I want the truth to be out there. I've seen Lieberman attack Dean by defending The War and the Bush tax cuts. Gosh, do you think he knows he's running as a democrat?

I look at Chomsky's stuff all the time over znet. do you know Johnathan Pilger posts stuff over there as well Phily? He is an amazing guy who tell's it straight. It was Pilger who exposed the Cambodia Killing Fields and has actively reported this kind of corruption extensively.

My own thoughts now seeing some of the latest on the guy's who have been 'Ordered' to be there (obviously the military) is sad. They are so low in moral that the suicide rate is through the roof.
I would ask a question of those guy's.. 'do you personally feel this is right'? If you do not then stop and come home. You have that ultimate right. If you believe that an order of any kind issued is against all moral and legal issues then you have the ultimate right to refuse.
This is because of what happened during the Nuremberg trials.
it was decided that the 'Acting on Orders'excuse was just that, an excuse.

That is true of all soldiers even if an order to shoot is given, it is the ultimate responcibility, under civil and military law for that soldier to believe that the shot they will take is 100% legal.
Any shot fired in this Campaign is Illegal as the weight of evidence shows that the whole reason behind the issuing of the Invasion orders proove them to be Illegal. under both your own domestic Laws, International Law and Moral Law.

I dunno, I just hope he ain't allowed to pull another stunt like he got away with 4 years ago.....but I do wonder considering what has happened in that time..

Yes I did know that, the article The Fall And Rise Of Liberal England I posted above is a Pilger article.

posted by ujay
"if any country is going to bring this poor old planet of ours to it's knees it will be America."

I would not be so pessimistic. Blame Bush, not me.

To all the America haters: Sorry we're not as limp wristed as you want us to be. It sucks for you because you hate us and yet wear our clothes, drink and eat food from our country and watch shows and movies made by Americans. The world is rooted to America, and America to the world. If you don't like it, move to China.
Oh wait, we're there too.
Okay, move to France. They hate us and are apparantly spineless when it comes to war or anything that doesn't involve art or selling planes to countrys banned from trade by the UN. Move there. Shut the fuck up. Thanks.

Since when did **** and general foreign policy become united as one? (with the exception of when GWB sent his letter to santa asking for a new pair of Nukes). Read the complaints and find what is being criticized, you'll find it's nothing to do with what you just posted.

well said pilly

and I don't want to shut up and let mr Bush and the Republican's destroy the world, i just don't...

If i can just convince one Bush supporter that the president is a very sick man, it will be worth all the trouble....

And oh I enjoy the americans crawling back on their knees to mr Annan begging for the UN to get back into Iraq..... i enjoy every minut of it....

I'm just sick of people talking shit about my country. Sory for having a little patriotism in my blood. Oh right, I'm just a cowboy from America who doesn't bother to read anything or care about anyone but myself. I don't like Bush either. I don't. Do I think any other moron in our current status is going to do anything else? no. I think they're all the same.
It bothers me that everyone looks in at the US and says that we're all morons and we should all just become like everybody else. America is fucked up, but not a complete waste. We have a shitload of accomplishments and everyone concentrates on how shitty we are. America is flawed. Deeply flawed, and running itself into the ground.
My only hope is that I'm dead before they start taking away all my freedoms, instead of picking and choosing and limiting this and that.

Quote:

Originally posted by whiteflip
Where is fox news in that list?

"you want the truth?! you can't handle the truth!

so have lots of misreported bollocks we made up instead"

if you decide to say "fuck you, we'll do as we bloody want too". Then the world will respond with a nice "well fuck you too!"

I think that's only fair....

Quote:

Originally posted by ertmann|CPH
if you decide to say "fuck you, we'll do as we bloody want too". Then the world will respond with a nice "well fuck you too!"

I think that's only fair....

we don't say "fuck you". Our administration does. And no, I didn't vote for them or The bread-minded Gore. I'm a third party-waste-my-voter. :)

Quote:

Originally posted by Fickle
I'm a third party-waste-my-voter. :)

Well, I salute you for that, American Democracy urgently needs one or two more parties that actually have some sort of influence... Preferably left of the Republicans...

I know you didn't go to war with Iraq, or all the other crap things the american govement have done. But you are an american, and the american goverment represent's america. just like i have to take blame for our new liberal pm's on-the-werge-of-racism-policy from germans and swedes, even though I am, and I voted for the liberal-socialists

Quote:

Originally posted by ertmann|CPH
American Democracy urgently needs one or two more parties that actually have some sort of influence... Preferably left of the Republicans...

...and right of the Democrats!

yeah well, idealy, which might be because im pretty much bang centre of the polical spectre (well, at least in Denmark that is) neither the big right wing party or the big left wing party should have a majority, that means the centre party can draw both of them towards the centre.

My party usually only get's like 4 - 6% of the votes, but it most elections it can choose which side get's in the goverment, and influence that policy to be mid seeking...

and that's how it works in most european countries...

compromises are good....

Same here in America for me. I'm a registered Independent.
There are policies and ideals from both sides I like,
just as there are policies and ideals from both sides I dislike.
But the problem here is that there aren't any real Independent leaders.
And even if there were, the left and the right wouldn't recognize them.
Which is sad, because generally its Independents
who have their finger on the pulse of our country.
The two party system we've become sux.
Both sides have gotten too fanatical and too radical.
It has split the country in two. Each side hates the other.
And that's why we're in the mess we're in politically.