Why rap can never be as good as Rock
 

I was listening to the radio yesterday, and then watched the VH1 special "Heavy, The History of Metal," and it donned on me why rap is so bad, and why it will never be as good as Rock and Metal. The reason, its artists.

All rap artists are the same. They all are from poor walks of life and bank on the whole "rose from the streets" story to get to the top. When they do, that is all they talk about, or are told by the producers to talk about. By their fault or not, rap artists are just not articulate, and thus, all their songs, about all the same things, are the same. Rap artists are truly entertainers, but they are also only entertainers.

They are able to fill that little bit of curiosity of white America. They are the modern day carneys. We show interest in their bearded lady-esq albums for a year or two, then toss them by the wayside when the next show of the two headed dog comes by. Rinse, repeat. Not to mention that "hip hop" has become so watered down with the likes of Gwen Stefani and Nelly Fertado(sp) that it is hard to distinguish it from bubble-gum pop.

Rock artists, are different. Not only do those artists come from very different walks of life, but personal interviews demonstrate how much more articulate they are, and how much more thought process goes into their music. Granted there are exceptions (on both sides) but how many rap "artists" can speak intelligently?

The last major comment on the political stage by a rapper was Nas's scholarly "George Bush doesn't care about black people."

Watch the congresional hearings and listen to Dee Snyder of (Twisted Sister) argue with the lawmakers of our nation. Watch the making of Metallica's (a band I am not a big fan of, by the way) and hear James Hetfield ponder over the music and his family, and how he discusses the trials and tribulations of his past.

Listen to Shawn Chrahan, the clown from Slipknot, a band that has a sound that would make your sisters cry, with conviction about his family and the band, without mentioning how much "bling" or "hoes" they have.

In short, "rap" and "hip-hop" has become as pre-packaged and predictable as the boy bands of the 90's. Heck, now they are using the boy band members as hip-hop stars (see Justin Timberlake). Meanwhile, rock stays true with its unique individuals, their points of view, and sound.

Not articulate? Listen to Chuck D or KRS One.

The key here is, it has become a modern minstrel show.
It wasn't always like that, and it doesn't have to remain that way either.

Deltron 3030

Mainstream rock sucks ass too. /points to Metallica. (Real in-depth lyrical concepts/constructs they have now, huh?)

While I agree with most of your points, there is intelligent rap. Fuck, Eminem is intelligent. You just need to get passed his bullshit mainstream songs and into his older stuff with more substance. As with most artists.

What I find hilarious is, rappers talk about being thug in one song, and then in the next they talk about having twenties, fourties, and big-screen tvs. Real thuggin'.

Though, it's comical that you bring up Slipknot, being the most typecast industrial band out there.

"Hey guys, what should we do for our next metal song?"
"POWER CHORDS AND TALK ABOUT SUICIDE AND DARK THINGS LOL"
"Genius."

Fuck Hot Topic.

Nothing personal, but

may the ghost of Jhonn Balance haunt your dreams for calling Slipknot industrial.

/Defends Metallica's older catalog, which had some of the most politically driven lyrics I've read.

/agree

/me is listening to: Run DMC - Its Tricky [03:03] Good eh?

It is good. I've actually been listening to more hip-hop these days, once I've found out that there is some good non-wanksta stuff like Rakim and such.

I always thought Rage Against the Machine had some intelligent lyrics, but are they metal or rap...?

Alternative Rock :p

I heard they were reforming...

More like a reunion... :p

Not intelligent?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFBF_Fa04_Y
I really enjoyed it, even being Christian.

skrybaby, that was a bad-ass video. I normally don't like rap...but that guys lyrics are 'off the hook, g'.

I left the following comment for him...


well written, my homey...I know you don't owe me, but, I still believe in a god, I don't care what 'sex' he or she might be, don't matter the skin that wise old woman or man is in, I only care that the god I think is real is a god of good and that your heart and your life be judged in some sort of heavenly court, maybe there is nothing after the off but is it bad to live life thinkin you might end up payin' a price for if you're naughty or nice? NO - say I need a woobie blanket to deal with death and I'll tell you I embrace the day that I find out, who's right and who's wrong, this fight is too long to give up without at least asking questions and saying a prayer, go ahead and start it out with 'whoever's out there, just know that I care' because the mind is a thing we can't begin to understand so don't be so full of yourself to think that you can



---try to rap it out skryingbreath, I don't mind if you 'sample' some of my lyrics, dawg.

The one thing I hate about rap, besides the 'bitches and hos' and voilence and hate and what not, is the really really shitty re-makes of some song that wasn't that good in the first place. Like I wanna hear the shit that was dead 15 years ago come back with really crappy rap hucked in! I hate that..

Sometimes the beat is catchy and the re-mix is decent but the damned lyrics...come on.

Who sings that song 'take a look at my girlfriend, she's the only one I got' - 'not much of a girlfriend, never seem to get a lot'. It's driving me crazy...yeah, short trip, I know.

although I see where you are coming from, and can understand your frustration... MAINSTREAM hip hop is what I believe you are talking about... the underground still has a lot to offer

Don't damage my name. No, I'm not joking.

I rest my case. Isn't your reply a bit off topic? What happened to the 'rap isn't as good as rock' part of this conversation? Your only reply is to say I can't make up a nickname for you?

You listen to a lot of heavy metal music, right?

You're done.

Long live grunge scene 90'.
The bands as Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Soundgarden, Smashing pumpkins... Golden years of alternative rock.
Rap can never compare to rock in any segment.Never!

Nice first post. You're not mrd00d are you?

the golden age of "alternative rock" was the 80's and very early 90's
the "grunge scene" was just the mainstream slop that capitalized on what New Order, My Bloody Valentine, Echo and the Bunnymen, Pixies, et al started.

quoted for truth - watch VH1 Classic's "The Alternative" (Sunday @ 11p.m. Eastern Time) and you'll see what real 'alternative' is.

Don't get me wrong, I don't mean to say that the bands that PBD listed are bad; they just weren't really an 'alternative' to anything, since they were pretty much the mainstream music of their time.

You missed one important point, rock will always be better because the rock muso's play their instruments and write their music, and then have to play that shit live.

Whereas if a rapper actually writes his own music (hahahaha, or the rap producer, which is more likely), it's done on computer, and never altered again until someone remixes it. They don't have to play it live, just sing to it.

This means they are unlikely to grow, develop their style, etc. just rap over different beats (their rapping obviously evolves). Whereas rockers, they evolve, generally constantly, adding and removing elements, until they find their niche (and in the case of the 80s thrash bands, throw it away after they've found it).

When was the last time you saw a rapper change their style so dramatically that they were called sell out by their core fan base (if anyone says eminem, I'll slap em, he's still rapping, it's just light and silly now, not dark like in the 'old days'). And I say style, I have never seen a rapper give up rap and try ballads.

Off the top of my head:
sell out - Nas
ballads - LL Cool J, Wyclef Jean
singing - Everlast
want more?

Besides, saying rappers only evolve by abandoning rap is like demanding all rockers make at least one IDM or Free Jazz album before they can be taken seriously.

enjoy ur prejudice

Listen to Bone Thugs 'N' Harmony's early album, Creepin' On Ah, Come Up and then listen to BTNHRessurection.

Would you like your words served with hot sauce or guacamole?

I think you'll find that Soundgarden and Pearl Jam in particular were just as significant musically as the music they built on, just as the artists you name were as significant as the music they built on.

Oh, and on-topic I think we've established that rock can be as good as rap and that rap can be as good as rock. Hurrah and so on.

Yeah, it's obvious the rockers won't convince the rappers, or vice versa, but one thing I'm sure most of us can agree on, most of the mainstream rap/rock hybrids, were just plain bad, on both parts.

I listen to both Metal and Rap, I just don't think comparing one to another is fair. It'd be like comparing Metal to Rap...oh wait, I mean it'd be like comparing Roman Classical to Jazz.

Rock/Rap hybrids are good when done well. Linkin Park (despite their emo lyrics), RATM, Static-X, Deftones, the list goes on. Hell, even Beastie Boys rocked the shit back in the day.

I agree with this, although Deftones have been rubbish for a while. When done well the whole sort of genre-mashing thing can be good. RATM are probably the best example of those ones, driven mostly by Morello's genuinely-fresh guitar techniques.

I wouldn't have put deftones or static-x in a rock/rap hybrid (not that ive heard any of their new stuff, just the shit around 2000).
Linkin park, I cant really comment on the rapping, but mediocre in the rock department.
RATM, well yeah, they weren't the greatest band, but they did have a strangely catchy, addictive and unique sound, who doesn't like Killing in the name of?
The Beastie Boys were a joke though, just like Split Enz, tried to pull of punk, failed miserably and moved in the opposite direction, sounding cheesy more than anything else.
Oh, you forgot Cyprus Hill.
The keyword though was 'most', if i said most of the popular metal bands in the late 80's were thrash bands, sure you could point at priest, maiden, sabbath being extremely popular, but would it change the truth of my statement?

Static X are harder to justify (they're more rap-inspired than anything), but Deftones have always been a rap-metal band. Just because Chino Moreno doesn't rap all the time doesn't really change that. And honestly, I've not really listened to much beyond "Around The Fur".

Listen to the breakdown bit in "7 Words" for example.

Such an epic part :up:

Also, Headup.

/getshiscoat

Another great one (although it's not a Deftones song) is "Pain" by Soulfly. I love the bit that the singer from Will Haven does in that.