Licensing Help
 

Hello Everyone,
Im sorry to have to post another one of these, but after searching all around these forums, and google, I cant seem to find what im looking for.

I live in Canada, and am looking for a license to broadcast. I will be broadcasting Dance/Trance/Techno music. Up until just recently I was just using Creative Commons music for broadcasting so I could avoid licensing issues, but I want to broadcast the music I actually like :P

So, are there any blanket licenses I can get to broadcast legally in Canada? Thanks in Advance!

Here is the Canadian equivalent to ASCAP:

http://www.socan.ca/music/licence.html

Well, first you have to realize that its not only the location that makes the difference in different licensing, but where your listeners are located.

Honestly, I don't know what to tell you. WHERES THAT HAMSTER WHEEL Live365 guy when you need him???


Years back, Im pretty sure it was the PRS that requested server hosting companies pay royalties owed to them because they had listeners in the UK. Obviously you can imagine where the companies told them to stick it.
I would recommend:

Contacting a legit station there and asking them. I don't think it would be as simple as going to the nearest JLA and joining them though.

I know their is a BMI Canada group.

But I would ask the licensing host themselves, as they are going to be the ones taking liability if they accept you under their JLA or something of that manner.

Thanks for your reply,
I was trying to figure this out for quite awhile :-/. I will looks more into everything and what not. Once again, thanks a bunch!

Is there a forum some place where people discuss the legal side (or illegal as the case may be) of streaming?

The more I read, the more confused I get!

The question I have now is.. (hypothetical, of course!)

As I read about the rates and how the royalties will crush internet radio, streams will go outside the US (and that allegedly, last.fm, is outside the US but owned by CBS)

So I thought, if it gets down to that, how exactly would you set up a stream outside the US in a way that shields you from excessive royalty hikes.

All I could find were references to hosts in the former USSR that are also linked to phishing, child pornography and identity theft.... (no thanks)

I don't mean a country that imposes NO royalties, just a place where the royalties and licenses are comparable to regular radio.

Suppose, in a hypothetical way, the US laws do crush internet radio and it's time to pick up and move outside the US, how would you do it?

Are there any off-shore companies specializing in this?

I know this isn't the right place, but I couldn't find a forum that discusses this stuff.

You'll want to start with SOCAN for songwriters, publishers
royalties and individual record labels for the performance
rights in Canada (since I don't think there's a SoundExchange
or PPL equivalent in Canada *at least we haven't heard from them*).
At the minium, you'll want to contact the big 4,
Universal, Sony, Warner, EMI. It's not going to be cheap.

that "offshore" stuff won't get you anywhere. Royalties are
owed by where the listeners are located as defined by PPL and
SoundExchange. All you can hope is that they won't find you,
and if they ever put you in their sights, they won't hesitate
to take your house. You will not only owe for all the streaming
you're doing now, they'll make you pay retroactively for all
streaming that you did before. Every track you've ever streamed
will be charged under the current CRB rates which is 0.0018
per listener. For 100 listeners, you'll owe 18cents per track
they hear, plus interest and penalties. Assuming 12 tracks
an hour, I hope you're getting $2.16 every hour for the 100
listeners that you're streaming to pay for performance royalties.
And after that, you still have ASCAP/BMI/SESAC
to pay, not to mention your bandwidth.

Last.fm may be in UK, but they are "in discussion" with PPL and file under
"Small Webcaster" class in U.S. since they argue that most
of their listeners are in Europe... Now that CBS owns them,
you can bet that SoundExchange will want their pound of flesh.

If you need an example, try Seeqpod. Labels didn't just sue Seeqpod..
that'd be too easy. They sued the investors of Seeqpod and even
developers using their API. Didn't even get to the courtroom
before Seeqpod imploded.

First, just to be clear, I wasn't, nor am I advocating or even suggesting it. (I was just asking, because I really don't know..)

Next foolish question, lets say the company is actually based in Panama?

For example, a company just like loudcity, except they're located (yes, physically located) in Panama? (Panama is the example, I don't know what their laws are.. it's just an example)

Wouldn't that fall outside the US jurisdiction?

Could someone in the US be in legal hot water just sending them a stream and they relay it? (Suppose you paid the royalties on the one stream you sent them, or, moreover, a US company, say "AnotherLoudCity.com" paid the royalties on it)

(For anyone else reading this.. please understand this isn't something to do.. I'm only asking because I'm curious about this.. I'm not suggesting anyone try it)

two things will happen..

1. they'll complain to the U.S. ISP that provides connectivity
to the Panamian ISP. ISP is a low margin business so as
soon as they see that letter from a label, you're gone.

2. then if you have assets here, they'll sue you here. And
if you want to risk them over there, they can do much worse
to you by lining the pocket of the politician there (and for
much less).

and god forbid if you ever tried to make money. First thing
they'll do is make sure credit card companies and paypal can't
work with you. Remember allofmp3.com? Even semi-legal entity
in Russia couldn't escape the hammer.

That probably couldn't happen just because of the nature of the way international connectivity works. In a way, if your goal is to punch soundexchange in the knees, the thing to do might be to move to panama (or wherever) and then beg soundexchange to try it, that would be a great big deal for them to do.

Hmm.. sounds as if you'd have to move everything over there, the source, everything. Relocating is kind of a high price to pay for being able to stream legally while being a burr in their shorts.

I suppose you could offer to stream/host podcasts for people, but only a select few would be willing to do that.

So, if outsourcing isn't a practical way to jab them in the knees...

What can be done to put soundexchange on the defensive?

There has to be some way.

Is there an internet radio "slashdot for dummies" so idiots like me can get (and stay) informed? The only one I know of is radio.about.org and thats pretty much all things radio - doesn't really cover internet streams (or the legal mess) so much.

I really don't understand this stuff and it'd be nice to know (in english) whats being done in these areas.

I tried google, but I always get more confused when I do that.. (I really want to find a "slashdot-ish" style site)

savenetradio.org seems to be down.

What Hamster is saying is that their is no such thing as a "Shield"

I understand where you are coming from.

If we are not making any decent money off internet radio(and most are not) and the artist are LOSING money off royalty sells through major labels, yet losing ALL rights to their own songs, and major record labels have money to have 6 story buildings with super visors, then obviously something is WRONG.

You can try to work the system. You dont use a condom, dont be suprised if you have a baby. You dont wear a seatbelt, dont be suprised your first accident of your injuries.

JLA is here for a reason, and its people who have taken the time to protect us from these labels at a decent price.

You realize that you can join 365 or Loudcity for a "flat fee"

Loudcity isn't a $35 plus royalty's. Its $35 flat for hobby use.

Live 365 has hobby plans with flat fees as well.



You can also go with plans that change price with ATH (SWCast). ATH is total listening hours through all users, and can be used with any webhost, and this is the general gist. Your not going to have extra fees added on to a hobby plan. Not tons of slots, but legal.


If you want to save net radio?

Write your congressman or congresswoman. Tell them what a headache it is to a hobby broadcaster like us. (I wrote all four of mine)

Start a blog about your frustration.

Make your community aware this is wrong.

Make a movie about the disgust of our current royalty system and Youtube it.

Start a social group

Write the artist of major record companies, and make sure they know why your going to stop playing their music and buying their CD's.

Talk about this stuff on unpubed band websites to make them not fall into this trap. They can turn to Magnatunes or Sell-A-Band.

Make the community aware that the ASCAP wants money for a music CD played in the workplace and in the garage of a autoshop where others can here. Make a flyer with these websites?

http://www.bmi.com/licensing/entry/C1162/pdf533759_1/

http://www.prsformusic.com/playingbr...dalicence.aspx

This way EVERY business can start questioning why these rules exist.

Make sure that your friends and family know how ridiculous the current system is! Tell them to tell one other!

IM NOT SAYING GO DO SOMETHING ILLEGAL TO GET THE WORD OUT LIKE SPRAYPAINTING SAVENETRADIO.ORG ON A BILLBOARD!

But the only way the system is going to change is if we all stand together and start making the world ask "why?"

Yea, thats really what I'm getting at.. how do we "fight back"?

Right now it seems as if the answer is just to roll over and take it. I find that unacceptable.

Yea, thats what I'm doing actually.

Would be nice if there were something we could do, even in some small way to fight back.

Is there an organization somehere that has generic, 30 second "political PSA's" (written by people that know what they're talking about, for people that don't, suitable for various genres) that stream owners can download and insert into their streams?

Maybe if politicians see net radio being used.. politically.. they'll see that internet radio could be useful to their own campaigns?

I looked at savenetradio.org but it seems to be down.

We "fight back" by not beaking the law.

We do it by boycotting the system. We find unpubed bands without 3'rd party relations (no "cover songs")

We make people aware....


Snipped from the SWCast Q & A

Q: I play mostly indie music. Do I still need licensing?

Any online public performance of a musical work and a sound recording requires authorization. Permission can be granted either directly (on a per-track basis from the owner or agent of both copyrights) or via a compulsory license. Needless to say, the latter requires fewer agreements and is typically the most feasible option for any small Webcaster.




I wasn't aware of this system till I started broadcasting. I don't agree with it. if you don't find your own way of venting this anger, it just spills out randomly on the air and in forums and does no good. Just make people aware...

Think for every 1 person you tell, your one step closer to making the world understand this is wrong. Thats 365 people a year. Now what if 10 people did that? What if 100 people did that? 1000?

What if they told 1 person? 2 people?

It sounds crazy, but go to a community action group. Talk about it with your local representatives.

write your mayor.

Write a local paper.

Write a local magazine.

Do research, and make a website.

What happens when the whole nation knows that every time they support a no label band, they are supporting a cause?



Regardless, I support JLA. These guys are fighting the good fight for us so we can do funner things like broadcast with our minds at ease. They are not getting rich off this, and supporting guys like us that want to broadcast.

The best way to fight back besides public awareness is to leave the fight in their hands, follow their rules so its easier for them to protect us, and hope that they take enough interest in their business to go to DC when its time to step up to the plate and protect small webcasters.

http://www.magnatunes.com/info/licensing

also look into these guys. Contact John who runs it. Ask him if you can obtain a licence for broadcast. The music is sold with license royalty free, so once you purchase it, you dont have to pay royalties on it EVER again.

You will have to buy the music of course to support the artist and the company, but being able to cut Sound exchange out of the picture sounds EXACTLY like what your trying to do, and thats how you can.

The Difference between them and other licensing?

http://magnatune.com/info/whynotevil

Money is actually supporting something other than greedy pockets. Keeping this company alive.

Read about John Buckman, and it will explain a lot of it...

http://magnatune.com/info/why

Also, you can cut up magnatunes samples and make your own songs with CCmixter legally for all you Techno DJ's

http://ccmixter.org/ as stated in
http://magnatune.com/info/whynotevil

Licensing Question re: Location
 

Hello everyone! I just signed up here in the forums as a part of my massive "research initiative" to prepare my internet station for licensing. I bow to all of you who have tread this path before me! :-)

I have a question about licensing and location, although it's a *slightly* different branch of this post's topic...

I am the owner/leader of a radio station based in Second Life (waves to all the other people in SL), and I have decided to sign up with SWCast Network as of June 1 for our licensing. Are those of you that use them happy with them?

Right now, all of our financial transactions are in Linden dollars, and I am going to handle "actual" payments to SWCast through my Sole Proprietorship. However, later this Fall, I plan to create some sort of business organization for the station, either a non profit or an LLC, not sure yet. So in a few months, my station will "officially" be based in the USA, in the State of Michigan under some sort of legal corporate structure.

If my station is based in the US, do I need to get my licensing here? The reason I ask, is that one of my DJs has suggested we use one of the licensing organizations in the UK *instead* of SWCast. The UK options are cheaper and more flexible...but I am not sure if it's something I can even consider! I have no idea if licensing through the UK is "legal" for my station.

Thoughts? Comments? I will be eternally grateful for feedback based on your knowledge and experiences.

PS - Magnatune is wonderful, wonderful, wonderful! We use their music for music beds for promos and station ids, and we often run JUST their music all day in a program we call "Magnatune Monday" :-)

Im in second life, Im going to have to look you up sometime. Have LITTLE to NO CLUE what Im doing in that group, and the "help guild" drives me nuts with their "seminar" e-mails.

As far as licensing for a game server to tune in, I would talk to a licensing JLA host before hand, as you are taking a step into a whole new field for licensing. Something that I dont even know about. I can drop a line on the LC forums and see what they say.

You know I wonder as long as you use the DJ bot for Loudcaster which is in the USA and you live in Canada but upload tracks to the US DJ bot if you'd be OK. I live in the USA and use Loudcaster, but that question has crossed my mind reading about others who don't live in the USA. The transcoder and servers are in the USA, so in a sense it should be considered a USA station. Problem is that you'd never be able to do a live show. Everything would have to be AutoDJ.