Check this thread and go to the link to francis tutorial. It's only two chapters now but still quite informative.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....628#post190628

Well, it has begun.. Meltdown... Countdown to skintacular skins.. I just learned how to do the transparency... To cool

And there is mine:
http://www.skinmaster.co.uk/skinmaster/wa3skinning.asp

Adv over Francis' version: All xml tags explained

DisAdv: Info is figured out by me, with some help from Francis. He wrote the skinning code.

Mike I hope you didn't think I was forgetting your work. It's just that it was posted already in another thread and I didn't know if people knew about this one..
Keep up the great work.. I for one appreciate the work your doing. Between yours and francis tuts and some study on the net I made my first real wa3 player skin.. Thanks a ton..

pixelpusher..

Hasten to ask but ...
 

I'm gonna kick myself square in the rear for asking this, but where might I find information and tutorials on generating XML? I have knowledge of HTML, but everything above that I haven't taken the time to learn. I'm not sure if I really wanna skin for this thing yet, but I will give it a look see just the same. Thanx.

ive seen
 

i've sen a couple tuts poping up around. it's nice that their poping up. it might be good to develop some experiments in wa3 skinning....but if i were u (and i am)....(j/k)....i wouldnt try to hard at seriously developing a skin for WA3 final. it's only alpha. not even beta. we dont know what needs to be changed (what might effect skinnning). for all we know 200 of the files in those skins could just be residue. i would just se WA3a2Turbo as a guide to see what might ber possible for wa3 skinning and start thinkinh. by the time WA3 final is out there will be a flurry of skin development atempts. you'll want to make yours stand out (i assume, but not nessesaraly). how are you going to do this? how might u play with our new toys? i wouldnt get to bogged down in the scripting of it just yet. it's a little soon for that (unless you just doing it for fun / curiosity....bit i dioscourage doing it at an attempt to do a good skin for WA3 final based on what is known from WA3a2turbo).

that's my 5 cents.

Agreed, Raj. Just kinda curious how intimidated I should feel, I guess ... at present I am largely.

I dunno about you all, but I wish a master (or even an apprentice for that matter) programmer would develop a program that could read and accept a Photoshop/PSP/Painter file with all of it's layers (each named according to it's own standard function) and automatically create a skin based on that information. Wow wouldn't that take the intimidation factor down ... at least for me anyway. I mean, I'm a graphic artist by trade and not a programmer. I can learn and am willing to do so if the program merits it. Honestly, right now I am suspect tho.

I am feeling an urge to get my hands dirty lately which I guess is just fueling my curiosity. That and an overwhelming feeling of being *left behind* by my skinning friends. I just don't want a lack of knowledge in a particular area leaving me on the outside looking in. Ya know what I mean?

read the tutorials, experiment a little... you'll see that the scripting really isn't difficult. What bothers me most is this question:

WTF am I gonna do with all this freedom? The new skinning system is incredible. But now I don't know what I wanna do with it.

TOO MANY POSSIBILITIES! I CAN'T TAKE IT! MY MIND FEELS LIKE A RUNAWAY PINBALL MACHINE! TILT! TILT!

yeah. well i dont advise u to go TOO insane with it. whatever skin u make; it would still be nice if it had a good usability GUI factor. my skins will be generally rectangular. i'll tell u that much. pretty simple and compact designs. nothing to elaborate. the question i have right now is how do i incorporate crossfade, shuffle, loop, pl, windowshade, minimuse, and close buttons all together in my skin. (i've already conswptualised my C butons (no pause button will be integrated). my posbar wil be nicely compcted too.
it's mostly about the Cbuttons for me and maybe the track name/time displays.

the problem is that for me, personally, fancy graphics weren't my strong points...creative use of the small space wa2 has to offer WAS!

So it is pretty hard to adjust to freeform skinning for me.

I like to make conceptual skins...not brand-name, plain metalic etc etc... so I haven't started skinning wa3a2 yet...I need to think of a good concept first.

btw Raj - mind if I asked you to describe your current wa3 project?

btw another thing just came to mind, a little "advice" for you raj. winamp3 has the possibilty of creating yer own "containers". This means that for example you could do a very simple skin, with only cbuttons and trackdisplays AND a "controlpanel" button. hitting this button could pop up a custommade control window, where you could place all these "fancy" buttons you just mentioned.

example: the rotor on the 'boxor' skin. except that it doesn't have buttons...but it IS a custom made window.

That must be one of the best things about this new engine!

anyway, just my two cents. :D

I hate, hate, hate, coding. I do. Whenever I start even
learnign it in a couple of minutes i start pulling my
hair out because of all the formalities and functions and
lines and math... i think i'm too right brained to do it.
Even writing HTML beyond bold and italic tags makes me
angry...

I am more inclined to find a programmer who would like to collaborate with me then learn all that scripting nonsense.
In fact, I think these types of arrangements are going to be happening a lot in WA3 skinning.

Um, Any coders out there without any art skills? :p I have already sketched out luxor II on a piece of graph paper...

If I don't find a willing programmer, I will wait for a
programl; for me there is no other option.

Hmmmm interesting...
I've studied the tutorial for about 2 minutes today looks fairlyyyyy straightforward :famous last words:

Further study required, but as I always say, how hard can it be, if your serious maybe we could colaborate here, never met a prog language yet that couldnt be sorted out with a bit of study, and by study think I'm gonna wait till someone gets a full tutorial on line, then go over it while picking the base skin apart. Also I belive Raj has mentioned it somewhere, but I think all you guys out there should wait up and see what develops on the skin engine, just in case its changes in any shape or form.

Maybe down the line Xerxes that collaboration will come off, but one question, does it have to be Luxor :), much preffered Caeser amp, ancient rome is more of an interest here.
Back to the day job :)

Hmmm... WAYL i can do that; but first i have to sketch it out. The thing is, Roman design lends itself to... rectangles and right angles, which really won't show off the freeform really good. Hmm.. maybe i can use arches...

I have attempted a couple languages; I even remember in
elementary school wanting to claw my eyes out during a
"computer lab" session where we learning the old "logo" language.

Now for Luxor, I totally have this idea for a tasteful, dramatic use of freeform skinning; but if you can indeed learn this .xml gobbedlygook, i will gladly and eagerly collaborate with you on Caesar Amp II (oh yes, the Roman Numeral fits so well there :) )

M'kay your on, lets get a fuller tutorial and see what we can do.

The way i look at it, if I can do frikkin UNIX then everything else is a breeeeeeeze lol

By the way the interest in Rome is mainly due to the City I live in, was a fairly important location in the UK part of the empire, so have had roman history drummed into me since school days, in fact, just as a side note lol, they've just unearthed a body dating back to roman times during excavations at the local train station today, see the UK, loaded with history LOL

Anyhow, I digress, yes lets get the info in, and lets get together over some skin !

Back to the day job :)

Xerxes - Transparencies are very easy in wa3, you just include an alpha layer mask inside the bitmaps -oh wait I have to call'em *.png's now :D - And THAT specifies what's transparent and what's not. For button placements you can just use steve's base skin as a template. each button/thingy has a set of x/y coordinates that can be easily changed in the .xml, just by entering a different number. If you just skin it this way you'll get quite far...:D

Here's my sketch for luxor; I really like the idea of havign it pyramid shaped. THis sketch has it so only the 2 corners are interchangable seperate windows. Now i'm thinking it would be cool if it was a triangle seperated into 4 pieces tht could be rearranged in any way the user wants. (Does anyone remember the "triforce" in zelda? its like that kinda)

http://www.xerxes.f2s.com/luxor2sketch.jpg

what does everyone think? And dont make fun of my 3rd grader inspired handwrting ;)

Its those damned X Y coordinates that kept me from ever doing a transparancy on Winamp 2.x ;) ... i'm just gonna wait until its automated- i can totally visualize a program that would allow you to load an image, then import more images (buttons) on top of that image, define certain things (like a vis display etc etc) and then generate all the script. Until the joyous day someone releases that, there's Mr. Jones :)

Boy, You guys are really having fun here. I started skinning WA3 just for fun and to try and get a jump start on the learning curve.
Once you start to learn the basics of the script, it's really not that hard. In doing what I have. this is what I suggest. Start by just moving buttons around on the base skin untill your fairly well aquainted with the x y coors thing. It's really simple. X is the distance from the left side of your base graphic and Y is the distance from the top. So that if I said X=29 Y=137 it would put the upper left hand corner of the button or whatever 29 pixels over to the right and 137 pixels from the top.
Once you learn this then you will start to see the endless ways to place things. Then I would start messing with the alpha channels. For photoshop people it's real easy. And creating transparency is a snap. I found skinning the player alot easier then WA2x. Hell I don't like the posbar. I just positioned it right off the skin with a couple of mouse clicks and keystrokes.
Anyway, I think it's a good idea to get the basics down. And once everyone starts doing it and a few player skins come out, everyone will start to get ideas.
I agree with alot said here. Right now it's just experimenting. But it's fun. I think you will see a program that sets the coors and creates the script for you. That would be the easiest way of getting into wa3 skinning. It's all good..

hahaha those damned region.text files :D I remember doing a "round" skin for someone, but the region generator prog wouldn't do it properly, had to the entire thing by hand. I've never done wa2 transparencies ever since :D

as for Luxor II...ambitious! diagonal sliders :D!! sounds great! I don't know if those "loose" triangles would dock with the main window properly tho...well of course the top one will. I'm gonna have to quote raj on this...

But it would be GREAT if it works out! Are you intending on "drawing it" by hand or would you use actual textures and go for that "real thing" look?

:shuffle shuffle:
 

Already feeling lost ... oh well, I was disenchanted with the whole process on WA2, so I guess I'll just take that as a sign.

Don't worry, Duk, just let the hares spring off the line; we know you're not as young as you used to be. The ideas will come and by then you'll know where to go to get the cold, hard how-to facts.

Just a little note all you free-formers out there:

keep in mind that the alpha channel doesn't support anti-aliaising (does it?) I think it's a Windows issue, but I haven't seen a smooth curve on any free-from window in any program. So before you visualize graceful arches, keep those jaggies in mind. ;)

Feeling overwhelmed.
 

XML... transparencies... ugh... Wish I could operate this stupid PSP7... How do you draw a straight, solid line? Argh! Where's the crack? Don't answer, that's against the rules... E-mail me... j/k... or not... Why do things cost money? That sucks... I liked my PSP4 SE... Didn't have transparencies, though... Didn't PSP5 have them? I want PSP5... I could work that one... Hmmmm... :(

I'm currently using PSP7 (cracked, just go to astalavista.box.sk)and it also supports alpha layer masks, and I find it very usefull. I'd prolly prefer PS if I had it though :p

PSP 7 crashes my machine, so I use PSP 6. Full alpha channel support (I think), including multiple alphas, but png format only supports one alpha channel. Now, for Cappy, remember that alpha channel supports partial transparency. That means that you could anti-alias the mask and get a smooth effect. Might be a bit tricky, but it should work.

--Spoonman

correct me if I'm wrong, but if you "anti alias" the mask by hand, it still shows up jaggie in wa3

I just tried it myself, and it looks like you're right. I used "New Mask -> From Image" in PSP on an anti-aliased blue circle. I double-checked that the mask was anti-aliased. The result? The blue did fade gradually, but to black, not to the background, so the final edge is still jaggy.

Bummer :(. Something tells me that this is a Windows issue, not a Winamp issue. Anyone know for sure, or even better, have an alternative?

--Spoonman

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that Windows does not support partial transparency between windows. I stumped on work-arounds.

Figured I might as well post my example (okay, so I had started working on my Diablo II skin, not just a blue circle):

http://www.veganplanet.com/noviprod/...ages/jaggy.gif

On a black background, it looks smooth, but, as you can see, the black jaggy edge appears as the background moves away from black.

--Spoonman

Cappy- I think the perfect 45 degree angled lines work pretty well even without antialiasing- therefore another subtle strength of isoceles triangle construction for Luxor II

Ampburner - the orignal texture I used in Luxor was brown noise on a rock texture I lifted from bryce II plus a 50 percent transparent "canvas" txture layered onto it in photoshop. I think for Luxor II I will use the same texture, as it works out fairly well IMHO. As far as hand drawing is concerned- no, it would all be done on the computer. But note that for Luxor 1 I "hand drew" all the hieroglyphs with the photoshop "paint tool" - so i would probably employ that technique again as well. The little
anubis in the corner and the depiction of the worker were
lifted from papyrus depictions.


There is a reason I sketched Luxor II out originally-

With Winamp 2.x skinning, it was fairly easy to think of a theme, say... "Metal with thin bevels" and then just skin,
adapting your bevels and other parts of the theme as you
went along.

One challenge of freeform skinning is that we now have an element we never had before- planning. Freeform, to be done
effectively, needs to be thought out. Although it could be
done, things such as feature placement, size, and window shape are much harder to just "improvise as you go". A skin to be an effective interface needs to be cohesive, and therefore, thought out. Therefore, In the future we now have an almost required "pre-session" sketch step in the skinning process, so as to place the elements and work everything out.

stupid windows :D

hehe by "handdrawn" I ment with the airbrush ON the comp hehe... But I do agree that planning is essential for a good freeform skin.

Oh and the 45 degree angle would look near perfect withaout antialiasing

Xerxes reveals personal information - I hope it makes the tabloids...
 

/xerxes patiently and o so eagerly waits for the day...

This might sound wierd to people, but I can't be designing things while thinking about "X Y" coordinates... does anyone else here, when they start drawing or creating art, put on some music and go into a sort of zenlike "art mode" where its almost like your perception of form and aesthetic is heightened? ... I imagine it is natural for many to skin this thing and skip back and forth from concrete logical normal everyday mode to the more perceptive mode; perhaps unconsciously; all I know is that I am incapable of it. It may interest some of you to know I did this 4 hour very detailed "ability" test; and while my Visual Perception rating was off the scale, my mechanical and mathematical ratings were below the "below average" points ...i dont know... maybe thats the reason I am having such a hard time with this...

I know exactly what you mean. when I'm skinning, I put on some music, and I literally go into a trance. Skinning is not a way of life. It's a state of mind.

exactly. And i think said once before awhile- all my skins were done soley with candle light (And monitor light ;) ) ... i have to be in an "atmosphere" condusive to art... and when i start thinking of things like coordinates and variables ... it completely destroys my mindset. It sounds all new agey and crap but I'm being entirely frank and honest.

Jeez, Xerxes, you took this one on such a tangent, I forgot what I was going to reply to.

I am waiting to see those tabloid headlines about how stolen mp3s put California youth into pyro trance... :)

But I will say, I know what you mean. While I don't quite reach the Zen meditation point, my inspiration time, that 15% of brilliance, comes during times of quiet and solitude, when I'm "doing nothing" to others' eyes.

Then there's the 85% hard work, to butcher some old saying. A lot of that I can do with music and kids rockin' in the background.

Oh, I remember now my original thought: I haven't been able to get your Luxor II sketch to download. Been trying for two days, now... :(

Cappy, send me your E-mail address through the little e-mail thingy built into the board and i'll send it you directly.

photoshop
 

a photosahop related program a(perhaps plugin?) would work well. if it could be configured to accept image slices and layers or something to create the skin. (perhaps payetmanes=commands and extra cmands could be entered via dialogue boxes)...hmmmm.....