here's a suggestion I haven't heard from anyone yet
 

[suggestion]lets ditch *star* ratings entirely and just create appropriate catagories for skins.
3D skins
Car skins
anime skins
***skinner.exe (with no other effort) skins***[/suggestions]

[typical rant]I mean hell, why do we even need staff ratings anymore? Someone's only going to come along and downrate you (or in rare incidences peeps will uprate themselves), and browsing through the most recent catagory, it appears the new review team is giving skinner.exe skins straight up zer0 to 1.5 star ratings, and everything that is half decent or shows effort is getting 2.5 to 3.5 star ratings, even if I personally think they deserve more (in comparison to the rest of the crap in this database).

I think it was Mr J who said there are like 40,000 skins in the database now, reviewed and in waiting. Of those 40,000 I'm sure more than 75% of them are going to get zer0 to 1.5 star ratings, and the rest are going to get average ratings, with the exception of stuff made by raydream <---jealous :X[/typical rant]

[explanation of suggestion]we all appreciate the effort that has been put into the new review team, and the effort they're showing in return... but based on the comments I'm looking at, and the ratings, I think this review team is "burning out".[/explanation]

[off topic] you know miss cleo? she works for a company called Mind and Spirit (you can look it up on the web, this isn't news, although they may have changed it to the miss cleo network by now), anywayz, [opinion]I'm so sick of this woman, and I'd like anyone out there who buys into that phone psychic thing, to know that [/opinion][fact]Mind and Spirit paid me $10.00 an hour to answer phones and lie to people.
I read tarot cards right off my computer to these people for a grand total of 8 hours, then told them to go touch themselves.[/fact][/off topic]

Hmm.
Yeah. System needs to be changed.

1. Not being able to rate own skins.
2. Have a few reliable (not necessarily nullsoft employees, they have other things to do?) who are allowed to rate skins/plugins.

Oh well. Who would listen to a moron like me? :rolleyes:

Isn't that what we have now, or did I miss something somewhere?

Me being behing.
Well. 2. - right now anyone can rate a skin? right?
I've never been good at explaining stuff..

The Nullsoft staff ratings are done by people like you suggest.

They recruited some skin love regulars to do it...

what I'm saying is after staring at 100's of skinner.exe skins, you're gonna burn out.

I know there have been plenty of volunteers, it might be a good idea to rotate reviewers and not just let one person review 500 skins, while 10 other people are reviewing 100 a piece.

Its too inconsistant. And like I said, it seems like everyones getting the same rating anymore.

I think you should have someone like me rate the skinner.exe skins. I promise I'll go easy on all of them. :D

skinner.exe is the work of the devil :D



(off topic - do you think the h in my avatar is too dark?)

there's an H in your avatar?

I don't think we should go easy on skinner.exe, I think we should be easier on the ones that people obviously tried on.

I think stars should be gone altogether and skins just get catagorized by type of skin, and download count.

like I said, a majority of the skins suck anyway, might as well throw a wrench into the whole system.

Yeah, instead of stars you should have a ranking of the most popular skin based on download counts.

well, we've already established that most of the people who public review are fucking morons - lets base what we download on what they all like most. Great idea. I'm really getting sick of this.

1) No matter the system, someone is going to bitch bitch bitch. No matter the system, it's going to give reason to bitch. That's just the way things are. Especially online.

2) Nullsoft/winamp.com is not going to turn away skins. Period. Ain't going to happen - it's not their style. This has been touched on time and again, and I'm getting sick of hearing it from the regs. Read MJ's article, get over it, or go to deviantart and rain down your leet skinner shit from on high there.

3)WA3 is coming out (hell, for all practical purposes, it's here), and I know a lot of people simply feel that there is no reason to try and renovate. NS simply doesn't have the time, man-power or interest to update and clean out what has always been a dinosaur of a database.

4)SL fought long and hard to get the review system we have now. (And on a side note, every suggestion in this thread was talked about at least once then.) I personally didn't feel the need for it, though I admit that in the past, anything seemed better than the two systems we had. That said, what we have now is a relatively well balanced and well checked system of reviewing. Whether you like it or not, the system currently in place is fairer than ever to the skinner. I suggest you count your blessings. (remembers -Oh - that's right, none of you know what the hell I'm talking about, since none of you were around for the other systems. :rolleyes: )

5)Finally, you Forevever have been highly critical of the review system since it came out, yet you were the first to shout with joy when your skins got top ratings. How many weeks did we hear about Spongebobs download count? I call that poor grounds for criticism.

Good night all - I think I might sleep tonight.

arg
 

yea but wh says the peopl on the review team are the right ones for the job anyway? I've seen plenty of bad skins get good staff ratings becaus that certain reviewer liked it, but not all the reviewers think the same way which means the ratings aren't all on the same basis. Any system that is instituted is going to be unfair in some shape or for, sure one might say that they don't want to base what we download on what the reviers from the public like the most, but some might not want to base what they download on what the staff reviewers like the most. I tink that people should be able to leave comments not ratngs, do awa with ratings entirely. If you put all of the crap skins in one pot and just let the user browse thru the actual qulity skins it would be just as much or less of a hassle then what it is like finding quality skins on this site today.

I agree strongly with BullGawD and I think Forever, you do make some nice skins, but you don't know when to shut up with your bitching. I cannot see anything from with the current system. I agree there are problems, but they are not with the system but rather with the website. It's been down, the database is pretty much broken and there have been staff redundancies. Now, we have it fixed pretty much. Nullsoft are busting their asses on making Winamp 3. What makes you think they're gonna change what we got now. With Winamp 3 will be a new database, and perhaps then problems can be ironed out.

At the moment I am very happy with the skin ratings system. I personally don't check my skins very often as I am very happy just reading the emails I get. If you want an alternate ratings system visit:

deviantart.com
customize.org
wincustomize.com
lotsofskins.com
1001winampskins.com
etc.

and please just stop with the complaining. Can't you see there are greater things on people's minds.

:mad: :mad: :mad:

(off topic again:D - can u see the h now?) (its all backwards btw)



errm.... skinner.exe sux anus!

Yah! It says 'Ch33' , backwards ofcourse :)

..and based on download count, spongebob is pretty high up there, whereas 75% of my other skins have very few downloads. Do you see me crying about that? no. I don't care if all of my skins get 1 star, if they deserve it (and I know more than I care to admit do).

Sure I appreciate that I got a good rating on Obsidian 2, but I was also the first one to say it got lucky. In my honest opinion, then and now, is that it didn't deserve to be a featured skin, and I'm more than happy it is down now.

As for shutting up? don't hold your breath. I might just be repeating old BS over and over, but if I keep my mouth shut, its a 100% guarantee that nothing will ever change. However, if I excersize my right to speak freely, there's a .001% chance that someone out there will hear me, and it will make a difference.

If my life was at stake I personally would take the .001% chance that I'll survive over the 100% chance that I'll die.

Not the most pleasant of metaphors but you get what I'm saying.
oh and if you don't like what I'm saying, you can always click the little "x" up in the right hand corner of your window, or the button at the bottom that says "go".
Both are pretty handy in taking you out of this thread.

Why are you all taking it so personally?

skinme! I do have skins posted at 1001, however, the community is what brings me back to winamp.com over and over. I like too many people here. And I never once said get rid of skinner.exe skins. At least not recently. My suggestion was to catagorize them as they are "skinner.exe skins".

I tell you what I do find slightly concerning in all this talk and bluster about reviews and star ratings ,is the ability and the want to rate your own skins, that has to be the most un-clever thing Ive seen in a long long time.

While I agree that giving yourself 5 stars in the face of a onslaught of review bombs may be justified, what I don't see the benifit in , are the people who do it, just for the sake of doing it, a couple of occasions today I've seen skins reviewed, and within the hour, even within the half hour they have been user review humped with a five star rating from the creator, pretty darn petty I would say, shame on you if you carry out this pointless activity, altho I'm sure no one from within these walls, where sense and good manners prevail, would stoop so low.

Re: here's a suggestion I haven't heard from anyone yet
 

http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=79433

http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=79080

http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=79432

http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=79437

http://www.winamp.com/skins/reviews....ponentId=79439

http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=78186

[covering my own ass] I've rated my own skins yes. But I've never bitched so much about stuff. And just to be entirely clear about the shutting up bit - I didn't say it, and I don't expect it to happen, but it sure would be nice. :)

I had the dubious honour of rating my own skin as a reviewer while testing the system. I would sure like to see your guys opinion too. You can find it here. Don't hold back, rate it what it is worth. I don't want you to pump it up because of some lousy ratings from a few people. I want your honest opinion. From the ratings that are there already, most people do like it. And in case you are wondering, yes I did get permission from the original author to publish, yes I did get permission from the two other contributors to publish, and yes, I did get permission from the creator of the Weedsoft Video plugin to include the skinned version.

http://www.winamp.com/skins/detail.j...ponentId=78181

ok so you're saying I"m not allowed to rate my own skins? And what difference did my one 5 star rating make?
None.
The skins actual star rating did not change at all when I placed that first review.

NOW, what I was talking about, was people who uprate their skins intentionally to get a higher star rating, by creating SEVERAL accounts, and going back time and time again to give it a 5 star rating.

Do you think you can possibly distinguish between the two?

and of course I"m going to give my own skin 5 stars, to give it less would force me to commit to its level of greatness. LIke say if Jax gave Jade Tube one star, why would i want to download it if the author doesn't even like it? I assume the author knows more about their own skin than I do...

REgardless, if it makes you feel better 1. ditch the star ratings altogether (once again the original suggestion in this thread), or 2. let me know how much it bothers you, and why it bothers you so much, and instead I'll make a habit of giving my own skins zero stars.
k?k.
nevermind, no I wont.

P.S. what the hell else am I bitching about?

Show me where we told you to downrate your own skins. The suggestion was to not rate them at all. That's why you get the comments space. To convey you're feelings and information about the skin. As I see it that is the same as rating without actually rating.

I fill out the comment section and publish the skin and anywhere from 3 weeks to 3 months later it gets published. Sometimes I give it a rating intentionally, to provide more information that I forgot to add in the original comment and I don't want have to resubmit it to get it there. Most of the time I just go rate it for the sake of rating it.

Why am I justifying my ratings though? I mean this is the way it is. The "public" rating system is there.

The way I'd like it to be, and the way things actually are, are two different things.

I've posted this thread to make a suggestion. I called a portion of it a rant, but I didn't find my very first post in this thread very bitchy. And I didn't write it with that intention. And I didn't feel bitchy when I wrote it. But regardless. That suggestion is making no difference as far as I can see.

Not rating my own skins won't make a difference either.

I went to the market the other day and bought Louisianna hot sauce because they were out of Tobasco. What choice did I have? I needed something to go on my Taco's. I had to go with what was there. I didn't have the option to be picky.
But I did mention to an employee that they might want to consider stocking the Tobasco shelf.

dig?

Maybe you should visit the bitch list more often, because this sounds like a hell of a lot of bitching to me. If something is done you don't like, bitch...bitch...bitch. This has nothing to do with your ability to make skins, but everything with the way you present yourself to the skin lovers forum.

I had originally intended to post this in the bitch forum but I decided against it because of it had more to do with skins than an actual bitch. Plus I knew no one would listen. I didn't realize I would be attacked over it so vehemently.

Looks like I've come down with a case of "Mr Bo syndrome" in this thread, and no matter what I do or say, no matter if I'm right or wrong, I'm going to be attacked because I'm going against the grain.

Once again, ya'll could've clicked the little "x".

::clicks go instead::

No please, we do not deserve this honour. Do take it to the bitch forum. It really does have more to do with bitching than skins. Besides, posting here won't get you anywhere neither. :rolleyes:

Bo syndrome: More correctly defined as being a pain in the arse (to a greater or lesser degree, depending on the individual) to a group of people who have little or no control or interest in the issue the 'Bo' is spouting about. Caveat: Requires blatant ignorance or disregard for facts or feelings surrounding the issue he/she is bitching about, and is usually characterized by beating the issue at hand to such a degree of annoyance that few any longer care if he/she is right or wrong.

You're right, I did bring this to the wrong place as ya'll are helpless to help. Thanks for pointing that out, I think I'll write to steve case (efforts in futility)

arg
 

what r u talking about?

she was talking about the way in which you are too often treated - your comments are typically dismissed out of hand whether you are right or not. If I am wrong in saying that this is getting better (that you are gradually being treated more and more fairly) then please do tell.

I was talking about the general ass you made of yourself towards all of us, when in fact your gripe was with a very few people who had in fact treated you rather rudely. Yes you were an ass, which is what sparked such an attitude toward you. You have in fact apologized, as have we all regarding that little episode, and matters are steadily improving. I was merely using that little flashback to illustrate the fault in forevever's above arguments (which happens to be the main and I almost hasten to say only fault in a great deal of her arguments): the dismissal of current events or attitudes as groundless or irrational.

It is a mistake most newbies make, and given the lengthy online time of you both I'd think you knew better by now. I'll just give an example of what I'm trying to say. Forevever's assertion that we often dismiss Bo's comments out of hand and deride them for no reason was quite correct when she made it. (like I said, things are getting better, and I hate to dig up old hatchets, but it's a handy example, and Bo, you asked.) However, the assumption that we are all just bastards for doing it, and that nothing he had done could deserve the treatment he was getting, (instead of assuming that he showed up and was a bastard to start with) is something that is going to rub most people who were here when he showed up the wrong way.

The same thing is true for these review suggestions - all of them have been suggested before - (Though I mean before forevever showed up, 'what else have I been bitching about?' well, quite frankly this isn't the first time you've brought these 'new suggestions' up.) - and made at times when they were considered and discussed by a Skin Love made up of top skinners (a lot of them are still here, but the folks like Raj, Kinwashi, Jayn and Xerxes to name a few, have dropped off) and a full administration/web update team. The best/most implementable ideas were picked and put into action, and when they needed fine tuning, others were thrown in as well. Before the AOL hatchet hit, we had pretty nearly come to realize the system that most of us agreed on.

Now you come along bitching about a system that you see to be doing pretty well with, and making the most of as well (how quickly after publication did you get most of those self reviews up?) which beats the hell out of the old system. (I defy you to show me one SRS reviewed skin that has gotton screwed, and I mean hard funky goatse screwed. I could show you plenty that had from the old system.

In short, I understand that you can't know what you weren't here for, and that barring the absence of archives and the fucked up VB2 thread search engine, you probably wouldn't want to go through all those old threads, and couldn't be blamed for that feeling. But a little respect and a decent sense of humor would be nice.

[note] this post is I guess adressed to newbies in general. Whatever you think. Just don't even think about quoting this line: But a little respect and a decent sense of humor would be nice. and going off on me about stomping on Bo or forevever's toes in here. If I had a nickle for every time I haven't said what I really thought, I'd have a shitload of nickles. If I had a dime for every time these two and others have stated exactly what they think without apparent consideration of others, I could buy my island in the phillipines and forget about all this shit. [/note]

we have some ppl here who can write a book.. man its a forum, not a library.. me not reading long posts.. makes me dizzy.. coz its english

OK so Forever doesn't like the system.

Lay off everyone! (by which I mean, everyone lay off everyone else)

No skin review system is perfect, unless I code it ;)

People will always have gripes, I think the current system is the best we've had yet tho.

now thats what i can understand.. ;) :p :D

Don't you think the fact that I'm complaining about a system that is being good to me specifically, gives my complaint a little more validity?

Might I remind all of you who are picking me apart, that this thread wasn't directly set out to offend anyone in particular.

I just thought it would be a good idea.

And I thought hey, maybe some random person in charge will come and see my point and agree with me.

Lots of people agree with me. I don't think any one person in this entire world has any right to judge me or my work.
As soon as I get an email that my skin was published, I run right over and rate it 5 stars. Why? cause I can. Cause you let me. Cause its Mine.

Skins should be catagorized, then listed by download count.
And there should NOT be more than 500 skins in a catagory. Like who has time to browse more than that?

Now go head and feel free to bite my head off again. I'm not going to bother answering anymore. Ya'll have a good time chewing.

Look on the bright side :) you are all apparently entertained by this thread. Glad I could help.

And indeed it has merit, but , and there is always a "but", as your aware, there is no web dev team to make any major site changes, so it simply isn't going to happen, and even if it could, the NS guys are not gonna throw any great weight behind a database that now essentialy supports a product that is in the last gasps of life.

All future resources and effort will be thrown into WA3, this is where the future lies,and not promoting a product that will be obselete within a couple of months.

So yes you can expect to see some changes around here, slowly they will come, again down to the fact of having no dedicated web dev team, but that is for sure where the AOLTW/NS money will be going to develop this site around WA3 in the future.

In fact, thanks you've just given me an idea for yet another article heh, funny cos the one I'm writing now was indireclty inspired by yourself.......

Simple as dat.

All I want for xmas is Nullsoft Winamp!
I'd change up the database once a month. One month, nothing but staff reviews, another month, nothing but user reviews, the month after that, nothing but download counts!!
Unrealistic I know, but if I had 1% of the money AoL has, I'd certainly hire more people to handle it all, ditch the no effort skins, rehire the peepz who got canned, and make this site into a quality/Fun place to visit. No, not for everyone :) but then I don't like everyone, so why do I care what they think?!!
ahh... to dream... nothing like being human eh?

All very good appart from one SMALL and INSIGNIFICANT fact.

WA2.x is not going to be obsolete.

WA3.0 is an example of the Wasabi engine, and a whole different animal to WA2.x. From numerous sources inside Nullsoft (ex and current employees) there is no plan to ditch WA2.x. The parallel that was drawn was Real Player vs Real Jukebox. Essential RJ is a beafed up version of RP right? Well that's 2 vs 3.

Oh and just to tease y'all:

:D but it seems Justin is coding on NSIS mostly right now...

Groan.

AOL does have tons of money, however due to various mergers and the current down-turn in the global IT market they consolidated having lay-off's accross their whole interactive properties businesses (ICQ, Winamp etc)

Winamp is small beans with a negative revenue model. AOL don't look at the detail like how happy a sub-section of their user base is, they don't look at the forums etc (how could they in any structured way). Winamp is an unimportant product to them. They have strategic aliances with MS who have their own media player. I'm just glad for each day they don't shut down winamp/SHOUTcast. I'm just glad they didn't can 3.x like Yahoo did with Sonique 2.x.

Yeah they have a lot of money but winamp is tiny itty bitty scraps of small beans that actually hurts them a tiny itty bitty bit to keep.

YOU would hire people and stuff as winamp and skins are dead important to you, but get it into perspective, AOL don't care.

if this has been answered before, forgive me...
if they don't care, and they don't have plans for it, why the hell did they buy it in the first place?
I'd rather pay for Winamp than have them shut it down.
I wish the guys at NS had considered that before selling to AoL.
I bet a lot of us would pay for it, or even make donations.
Look at how much money was donated to Napster when peepz realized it would be shut down.

Oh I can answer that one, or at least this press release can...


basically it was bought for the technology and research into audio players, streaming audio etc etc, , AOL needed a product they could build into their various brands and more importantly to keep up with their main rivals, they bought winamp, ever seen the AOL media player bundled into the AOL disks?, guess where the guts of that come from?

Cheaper to buy an established product than go out and start from scratch on making your own.

The business I work in, when it wants to expand it brands, it goes out and buys up a competitor, an established name, rather than spend millions researching and promoting a new product.