WASAPI Output Plugin 'Maiko' (VISTA & later only)

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  • Stone Free
    Senior Member
    • Feb 2001
    • 107

    Originally Posted by big_blue View Post
    Unfortunately the 5.1 option assumes that I have side speakers, not rears, so it doesn't work for my setup. I had to choose 7.1 as it was the only one that included rear speakers.
    Hi big_blue,

    I saw the same thing, but if you configure the speakers it allows you to say that you have rears not side speakers. I'm at work, and our ADSL Machine with Windows 7 only has a two channel soundcard so I can't guide you through it, but the option is definitely there.

    Comment

    • SilverBird775
      Senior Member
      • Jan 2009
      • 237

      For a 5.1 it does not matter side or rear speakers you have. They just creating the ambient image and there is two of them. The only definitive thing about them is that they are stereo aligned and located somewhere back and aside. So it does not matter which connector hardwired for a 5.1 mode, rear or side one. Whatever works.

      Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
      So the delays work like I thought. Why are you including the atomic unit types, in what cases are they appropriate to use?
      To create effects by shifting channel delays, for any situation you want them to be shifted. For monotone boring records with a strong channel dependency (crosstalking) a little delay shift trick may enhance the aural expirience.

      Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
      What about the detection of virus/malware in Maiko? Do you think it was a false positive? What about the idea of providing a checksum so that the validity of your files can be checked after we download?
      False positives. It is great there is no positives with a major antiviral brands though. Had i know what piece causing it it would be changed or rewritten . There is a lot of assembler handcoded situations no compiler will be able to generate on it's own. The positives show up along with extensive use of assembler in the code i suppose.

      Providing a checksum is fair. For a zip files, is it sufficient?
      Maiko WASAPI output pluginCompatibility adapter for legacy winamp 2.9x (it's best to not use the old software!)

      Comment

      • Aminifu
        Forum King
        • Aug 2011
        • 4963

        Hi SilverBird775,

        You really deserve to be paid for your work.

        I was up almost all night listening to my 'new' music with the test build. The delay control and ability to balance inputs is awesome. I'm tempted to say balancing the inputs is all that is needed, but from all the controls on the balance tab I see you intend to go further. Once you get it finished, a tutorial on how to properly use it will be needed.

        As to the delay for a more precise re-sampler, it is very long but if I have a vote, I say keep the option in-place. I have a few tracks sampled at less than 44.1 KHz and it seems to help them sound better. I was thrown off a bit, when you said the delay happens when format/bitrates change. It's really format/sample rate changes (as noted in Maiko itself).

        Originally Posted by SilverBird775 View Post
        For a 5.1 it does not matter side or rear speakers you have. They just creating the ambient image and there is two of them. The only definitive thing about them is that they are stereo aligned and located somewhere back and aside. So it does not matter which connector hardwired for a 5.1 mode, rear or side one. Whatever works.
        The thing is, the matrix control grid is not currently marked for side speakers. See post #362.

        Originally Posted by SilverBird775 View Post
        To create effects by shifting channel delays, for any situation you want them to be shifted. For monotone boring records with a strong channel dependency (crosstalking) a little delay shift trick may enhance the aural expirience.
        Thanx for that tip.

        I have a few monotone tracks, that use the center channel for input, that I have not been able to play with Maiko. The current matrix control grid does not have a column for center channel input. It seems Maiko currently only picks up input from the left and/or right front input channels.

        It's no big deal, I'm usually able to replace these tracks (from occasional careless downloading) with stereo recordings or mono-to-stereo re-recordings.

        Originally Posted by SilverBird775 View Post
        There is a lot of assembler handcoded situations no compiler will be able to generate on it's own. The positives show up along with extensive use of assembler in the code i suppose.

        Providing a checksum is fair. For a zip files, is it sufficient?
        That would be great. Yes, the reasons for flagging may include that, and some legitimate processes are flagged because the bad guys use them for harmful purposes. False positives are a nuisance to deal with, but I rather deal with them than have something really bad attack my system. I can 'instruct' my security apps to ignore them for files I know are safe.
        Last edited by Aminifu; 17 September 2012, 18:53.
        Winamp v5.9.2.10042 - Quinto Black CT v4.1 skin
        Windows 11 Home 64-bit v23H2 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system

        Comment

        • SilverBird775
          Senior Member
          • Jan 2009
          • 237

          The legend:
          "F_L" 1 - FRONT_LEFT
          "F_R" 2 - FRONT_RIGHT
          "F_C" 3 - FRONT_CENTER
          "L_F" 4 - LOW_FREQUENCY
          "B_L" 5 - BACK_LEFT
          "B_R" 6 - BACK_RIGHT
          "FLC" 7 - FRONT_LEFT_OF_CENTER
          "FRC" 8 - FRONT_RIGHT_OF_CENTER
          "B_C" 9 - BACK_CENTER
          "S_L" 10 - SIDE_LEFT
          "S_R" 11 - SIDE_RIGHT


          For a 5.1 (DVD layout) only B_L and B_R are active not S_L and S_R. B_L and B_R are assumed to cover all side-rear-back roles for this layout.

          7.1 (Surround) adds two more channels: S_L and S_R. This layout is precise enough to split the rear-back-side channel to define exactly side and exactly back.


          Screenshot #362 exposed the matrix calculation glitch for 7.1. It zeroed both S_ and B_ pairs. Fortunately anything can be adjusted in manual until the automatic calulation will be fixed. Unfortunately for a 7.1 layout it can take a some hand work to program all possible input-to-7.1 combinations.
          Maiko WASAPI output pluginCompatibility adapter for legacy winamp 2.9x (it's best to not use the old software!)

          Comment

          • SilverBird775
            Senior Member
            • Jan 2009
            • 237

            By the way

            The oldfashioned name for B_L and B_R are Rear Left and Right. The 5.1 layout was the most advanced and demanding. It was so until more complex layouts appeared. Since then Rear's become hardwired Back's even so they still Rear channels essentially. Rear's are covering all the backstage. It may be confusing a bit but they are neither Back nor Side, they are Rear hardwired to Back output pins.

            Some codecs are able to re-route the pins, but its a driver business it is not a standard.
            Maiko WASAPI output pluginCompatibility adapter for legacy winamp 2.9x (it's best to not use the old software!)

            Comment

            • big_blue
              Member
              • Jul 2011
              • 63

              So if my two rear speakers (5.1 system) are defined by S_L and S_R, can I adjust the delay for them? Also, would you consider implementing a testing sound for adjusting levels? It's slightly more challenging using only your music to determine the proper levels.

              Comment

              • big_blue
                Member
                • Jul 2011
                • 63

                I tried setting the delays by measuring in feet and my music sounded like garbage. Here's the setup I used (with feet selected as units)


                I assumed B_L and B_R could be used to adjust my rear ("side") speakers, since I only had access to those values. Even with those set to 0, the music sounded distorted. Am I doing this wrong?

                Comment

                • big_blue
                  Member
                  • Jul 2011
                  • 63

                  And now shared mode doesn't let songs play. Seriously, this plugin is starting to become more frustrating than it is awesome. And don't get me wrong, it IS awesome. But I've never experienced so many crashes and errors in Winamp in my life. Shame it isn't more stable :/ Haha, sorry for ranting.

                  Comment

                  • SilverBird775
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2009
                    • 237

                    big_blue
                    Make sure you did not enabled the finest samplerate quality option by mistake. It's reserved for me and other few, the hopeless guys who do not mind to experience unusually long startup delays.

                    Well. I've uploaded the latest binary i have (see my homepage). There is a little chance it will work for you but who knows.
                    Maiko WASAPI output pluginCompatibility adapter for legacy winamp 2.9x (it's best to not use the old software!)

                    Comment

                    • big_blue
                      Member
                      • Jul 2011
                      • 63

                      Originally Posted by SilverBird775 View Post
                      big_blue
                      Make sure you did not enabled the finest samplerate quality option by mistake. It's reserved for me and other few, the hopeless guys who do not mind to experience unusually long startup delays.

                      Well. I've uploaded the latest binary i have (see my homepage). There is a little chance it will work for you but who knows.
                      It's not checked. I may just end up sticking to Directsound. I had a great experience using your plugin, and learned a lot in the process. Too much maintenance for me, though. I know I'm a quitter but I don't consider this a total loss. The MAD plugin still works quite well, and I was able to adjust my speaker levels properly (through the Realtek Audio Manager), so there's that. Anyway, thanks Silverbird and Aminifu for the support, sorry I ended up being a lost cause of sorts. Take care.

                      Comment

                      • Aminifu
                        Forum King
                        • Aug 2011
                        • 4963

                        Hi big_blue,

                        Don't Give Up !!!

                        We're trying to help you, but you are being selective in the info you are providing. Posting problems, but not fully answering questions nor giving feedback to some suggestions. This is probably unintentional in your rush and desire to get things working.

                        First, your hardware is not working right and we should back up and try to resolve that, then move forward. Your back channels are not recognized by Windows and therefore not by Maiko. If you are stuck with your current work-a-round, then other non-normal things will need to be done moving forward.

                        What is the exact name and model number of your mobo? What is the exact name and model number of your speaker system? This information will allow for other necessary hardware info to be looked up. If you don't know the name and model of your mobo and your computer is a standard commercial product, what is it's exact name and model number?

                        The user from post #376 believes you have a configuration problem.

                        Be it driver, configuration, and/or board, you and we need to know where that problem is.

                        Some of the conclusions you are jumping to are not right and may cause damage to your system, if you continue to act on them. There is no shame in asking questions about what you are not sure of. There is no need to guess. The only dumb questions are the ones not asked that you don't know the correct answers to.

                        Use the link below to download the "One for Nunz" plug-in. Install it, run the report of your WA configuration, and post it. Copy and paste it in the post, if you are not able to attach it in a zip file. Be sure to get the plug-in and not the standalone version of "One for Nunz".



                        We're here for you. You just need to be patient and work with us.
                        Winamp v5.9.2.10042 - Quinto Black CT v4.1 skin
                        Windows 11 Home 64-bit v23H2 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system

                        Comment

                        • kerimcem
                          Member
                          • Jan 2010
                          • 76


                          blance settings

                          Comment

                          • big_blue
                            Member
                            • Jul 2011
                            • 63

                            Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
                            Hi big_blue,

                            Don't Give Up !!!

                            We're trying to help you, but you are being selective in the info you are providing. Posting problems, but not fully answering questions nor giving feedback to some suggestions. This is probably unintentional in your rush and desire to get things working.

                            First, your hardware is not working right and we should back up and try to resolve that, then move forward. Your back channels are not recognized by Windows and therefore not by Maiko. If you are stuck with your current work-a-round, then other non-normal things will need to be done moving forward.

                            What is the exact name and model number of your mobo? What is the exact name and model number of your speaker system? This information will allow for other necessary hardware info to be looked up. If you don't know the name and model of your mobo and your computer is a standard commercial product, what is it's exact name and model number?

                            The user from post #376 believes you have a configuration problem.

                            Be it driver, configuration, and/or board, you and we need to know where that problem is.

                            Some of the conclusions you are jumping to are not right and may cause damage to your system, if you continue to act on them. There is no shame in asking questions about what you are not sure of. There is no need to guess. The only dumb questions are the ones not asked that you don't know the correct answers to.

                            Use the link below to download the "One for Nunz" plug-in. Install it, run the report of your WA configuration, and post it. Copy and paste it in the post, if you are not able to attach it in a zip file. Be sure to get the plug-in and not the standalone version of "One for Nunz".



                            We're here for you. You just need to be patient and work with us.
                            Alright, if you insist. By the way, I'm not sure why you think Windows isn't recognizing my speakers properly, I have a 5.1 setup, and two of the speakers are sides. I just happen to be using them as rears. My setup works perfectly fine, the only issue was Maiko crashing Winamp every so often (too often for my liking) and not being able to set exclusive mode at times. It's not that my system isn't configured correctly, it's either something in Winamp or Maiko conflicting. Anyways...

                            My mobo is from Gigabyte, model GA-MA785G-UD3H. Speakers are Logitech X-530. That plugin list is attached. Good luck?

                            Comment

                            • Aminifu
                              Forum King
                              • Aug 2011
                              • 4963

                              Originally Posted by big_blue View Post
                              Alright, if you insist. By the way, I'm not sure why you think Windows isn't recognizing my speakers properly, I have a 5.1 setup, and two of the speakers are sides. I just happen to be using them as rears. My setup works perfectly fine, the only issue was Maiko crashing Winamp every so often (too often for my liking) and not being able to set exclusive mode at times. It's not that my system isn't configured correctly, it's either something in Winamp or Maiko conflicting. Anyways...

                              My mobo is from Gigabyte, model GA-MA785G-UD3H. Speakers are Logitech X-530. That plugin list is attached. Good luck?
                              It is not normal to have to select 7.1 to use a 5.1 speaker system. I said Windows is not recognizing your speakers properly because of the way you have described things. For example (to summarize what I read), when speakers were plugged into the rear speakers connector and 5.1 was selected in the Windows control applet, the rear speakers selector was grayed out and the side speakers selector was not.

                              A speaker may be designed to support a particular channel, but usually Windows has no way to know if the speakers are connected properly. Some systems will allow Windows to know (via the hardware's software drivers) if speakers are connected, or not, to each connector. Some very high end speaker systems could be designed to let Windows tell if the speakers are connected properly, the Logitech X-530 is not one of them. I use the X-540 (X-530's grandfather or grandson ).

                              Also, as SilverBird775 wrote, some speaker designations (rear/side/back) are not technically correct, but the industry generally follows the popular conventions that have been established.

                              Anyway, give me a little time to go through your hardware specs to see what is what. There are ways to work with most computer stuff, once you know exactly what each piece is supposed to do, and each piece is mostly doing what it is supposed to.

                              The WA report attachment did not make it through, when it does you will see the attachment notice at the bottom of your post. I have not had a need to use that part of this forum yet, so I can not walk you through how to do this. Others have had trouble making attachments also, so I guess the instructions are not clear enough or are incorrect.

                              The WA configuration report will help in tracking down the reason for your crashes. It will, at a minimum, narrow down the areas to look at. I, and many others, do not have the problems you are having, so it is likely to be something in your system and/or it's configuration.

                              I will look at your system specs today, but I will not have much time for this for the next 3 days. I'll post back early next week or sooner if something 'jumps out' right away.
                              Winamp v5.9.2.10042 - Quinto Black CT v4.1 skin
                              Windows 11 Home 64-bit v23H2 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system

                              Comment

                              • Aminifu
                                Forum King
                                • Aug 2011
                                • 4963

                                Hi SilverBird775,

                                So far version 0.53.test.02 is working without any adverse effects on previously established features. So I guess whatever was done 'under the hood' is working.

                                I did have to delete the Maiko*.bin files and the entries in Winamp.ini and let them be redone.
                                Until I did this, my input balance changes would not persist when the next track in the playlist started. One or the other of the input balance controls would revert to it's nominal level.

                                There were 2 other options in Winamp.ini besides the selected speaker device before I deleted them. Now there is only 1 additional option (for the HD resampler). Sorry I do not remember exactly what the other option said, it was something about latency. I had switched the "Genuine latency formula" option off and back on, so maybe it was related to that.

                                Do you recommend deleting the Maiko*.bin files and the entries in Winamp.ini when changing versions? This was not needed before, but I guess it would not hurt anything.
                                Winamp v5.9.2.10042 - Quinto Black CT v4.1 skin
                                Windows 11 Home 64-bit v23H2 desktop - Logitech Z906 5.1 speaker system

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