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Old 6th June 2012, 10:09   #6
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Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i don't think most people know what volume leveling is or means, so i'd say replay gain instead, as that is actually mentioned in the prefs and other areas of the app/tags, unlike "volume leveling." (they won't know what RG is either, but at least they might have seen it)

you could also explain that all RG does is change the volume, but it changes it across the whole track. and the other tag it uses, peak value, is what it uses to prevent clipping.

you say "the results of the analysis are never shown." well, first they are in the tags, and in the ML columns if selected. but those analysis results can be shown if they are applied manually, so you can see them prior to application.
I can come up with a better title, equating volume leveling and RG. How about:
Volume Leveling/ReplayGain (Keeping all your tracks at close to the same volume)
Too long?

I though the text made it clear that all RG does is change the volume across the whole track. I can try to make it clearer. RG is a technique. The way it is applied by WA and mp3gain are different. The bytes that control volume across the entire track are adjusted real time by WA's implementation. MP3Gain adjusts these bytes directly, so there is no need to adjust them during playback. The algorithms that WA and mp3gain use to determine these adjustments are probably close, but not the same (patent issues). The one mp3gain uses was stated, don't know what WA uses. I can also add more info on how clipping prevention is done, but again both implementations use the same techniques to accomplish it.

As to RG analysis results, WA does show 1 interim result, the peak value detected (if, like you say, the user elects to see it). This result is also shown on the advanced tab of the WA tag editor for flac files, but it is not shown in the WA tag editor for mp3 and wavepack files. Don't know about other formats, but unless they use vorbis tags I don't think it will be shown for them either. Likewise, the peak value is not one of the column choices in the media library. MP3Gain will provide more interim analysis results than the peak value detected, but as with WA, the user has to elect to see them. Also WA doesn't tell you if clipping was detected, mp3gain does.

Both implementations show the bottom line, namely the album and/or track values that will be used to control volume (including clipping prevention, if needed). These are the final analysis results, so I should have wrote that WA only shows 1 interim analysis result and mp3gain shows more.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
you can also apply RG via the center top file info window's buttons, but this is not best practices, since if you have multiple tracks from the same album, you need to do them all at once to get the right album RG level. so anytime multiple tracks from one album are being done, they should all be done together to get the right album RG setting. in addition, album tags must be present, (and maybe some combo of other tags depending of different factors).
You are referring to the default Big Bento skin. I don't use that and didn't know. But since it is possible for skins to provide alternate ways to apply WA's RG, that needs to be mentioned, along with the drawbacks you stated.

Can you point me to where I may find the info to clear up the doubt about tag combos.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
also, i do not believe winamp allows the user to remove just RG values, at least from id3. you'd have to delete the whole tag. a better undo is to just deactivate the RG feature in winamp, or use mp3tag to delete the RG values.
WA's RG adjustment values can be removed independent of the other tags for flac files. I assume this would be true for other formats that use vorbis tags, but they can not be removed independently for formats that use id3 tags. Your other points here are valid and should be added.

Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
i would never use mp3gain b/c i do not want to impose or use APE tags on my files, and i would not want to need them to undo changes. imo, id3 works best with mp3, APE causes trouble.

mp3gain IS useful for situations where the user must adjust the data itself, b/c normal RG is not supported, but in such a case, i would adjust my hardware/software first, before i started applying mp3gain and APE to all my files. there's no question that i have DL'd mp3s that had mp3gain applied and i am stuck with them that way b/c the ape tags are gone.
Is the APE tag trouble in general or due to bugs in WA?

True, if you don't use the APE tag to record the mp3gain change, you can not use mp3gain to automatically return the track to the original volume level. But you can keep a log of the change and manually use mp3gain to reverse the change.

Also true, if you don't use the APE tag or keep a log or otherwise don't know what the change was, you can't get back to the original volume level. But you are not stuck. You can still use mp3gain to make another change, up or down, to the overall volume level.

This brings up another issue I did not mention. In the case where you need to increase the overall volume, this is awkward with WA's RG implementation. You have to use the pre-amp adjustment. This then affects all the other files with established WA RG values, since this adjustment is applied ahead of the WA RG adjustments. If you need to use the pre-amp for some files, then I think you would need to reanalyze all the files you did without this pre-amp adjustment being applied to prevent them becoming too loud again.

Ok, thanx for your input. Now how do I apply all these changes? Will a moderator let me back into the original posts or do I have to do them all over again?

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