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Old 6th June 2012, 22:18   #7
MrSinatra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
I can come up with a better title, equating volume leveling and RG. How about:
Volume Leveling/ReplayGain (Keeping all your tracks at close to the same volume)
Too long?
i think thats good. i might say: "Volume Leveling/ReplayGain (Playing back your tracks at similar volume levels automatically)"

there probably also needs to be a clear explanation in the text of "gain" basically meaning "volume"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
I though the text made it clear that all RG does is change the volume across the whole track. I can try to make it clearer. RG is a technique. The way it is applied by WA and mp3gain are different.
personally, i think RG and mp3gain should not be conflated. they have the same goal, but they are otherwise completely different, and mp3gain really has nothing to do with winamp specifically. i think there should very clear delineation between them, totally different methods.

i also forgot to ask if mp3gain can support an "album" mode? i think it doesn't, but i could be wrong. if not, another big strike in my mind.

might be an idea to explain that "track gain" is best for any and all listening EXCEPT when listening to any two or more tracks off of the same album in sequential order. in that case, "album gain" is the better option to preserve the intended differences in dynamic range, (like DSOTM has for instance)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
The bytes that control volume across the entire track are adjusted real time by WA's implementation. MP3Gain adjusts these bytes directly, so there is no need to adjust them during playback.
i think winamp just reads the tag and adjusts the gain directly to the winamp volume slider. so if the slider is at 75%, it does that plus 3db if thats what the tag says. but i'm just guessing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
The algorithms that WA and mp3gain use to determine these adjustments are probably close, but not the same (patent issues). The one mp3gain uses was stated, don't know what WA uses. I can also add more info on how clipping prevention is done, but again both implementations use the same techniques to accomplish it.
that doesn't really concern me. meaning, how they arrive at their values isn't really pertinent imo. what is pertinent, is how it works. so like one is done on tag reading playback, the other direct to the audio, that kind of thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
As to RG analysis results, WA does show 1 interim result, the peak value detected (if, like you say, the user elects to see it).
i'm not sure what you are talking about here? if i have RG tags set to be manually applied, i can see both track and album RG values and peak values PRIOR to application. thats the default.

personally, i don't need to see them, so i make it so it just writes everything automatically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
This result is also shown on the advanced tab of the WA tag editor for flac files, but it is not shown in the WA tag editor for mp3 and wavepack files.
well, i said that once written, you can't edit the id3 ones anyway, and you probably can't see peak values for id3 at all. but u can see the RG values in the tags and ML. (another reason to use vorbis over id3 btw where possible)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Don't know about other formats, but unless they use vorbis tags I don't think it will be shown for them either. Likewise, the peak value is not one of the column choices in the media library. MP3Gain will provide more interim analysis results than the peak value detected, but as with WA, the user has to elect to see them. Also WA doesn't tell you if clipping was detected, mp3gain does.
no, the default is you will be shown them in winamp, and its all values. u have to elect NOT to see them, (and actually, i think that should be the default)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Both implementations show the bottom line, namely the album and/or track values that will be used to control volume (including clipping prevention, if needed). These are the final analysis results, so I should have wrote that WA only shows 1 interim analysis result and mp3gain shows more.
i'm really not following you, and i'm not sure if its because you're mistaken about things, or i don't understand the terms you're using.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
You are referring to the default Big Bento skin. I don't use that and didn't know. But since it is possible for skins to provide alternate ways to apply WA's RG, that needs to be mentioned, along with the drawbacks you stated.
well, esp since its the default.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Can you point me to where I may find the info to clear up the doubt about tag combos.
not sure what you mean.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
WA's RG adjustment values can be removed independent of the other tags for flac files. I assume this would be true for other formats that use vorbis tags, but they can not be removed independently for formats that use id3 tags. Your other points here are valid and should be added.
umm, thats exactly what i said. i specifically said id3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Is the APE tag trouble in general or due to bugs in WA?
imo, they're trouble. we've had this discussion before, just recently in fact, and i pointed you to threads about APE and the problems i had with them.

imo, best to strip them, and not deal with them. and that in turn, is another strike against mp3gain. and i would also point out that 1.5db increments are a bit too far for my tastes. dbs are created as the levels the human ear can detect differences between, so one would want increments of one db or less, not more than one db.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
True, if you don't use the APE tag to record the mp3gain change, you can not use mp3gain to automatically return the track to the original volume level. But you can keep a log of the change and manually use mp3gain to reverse the change.
how many people do you expect would do this? its like saying use a phone book instead of google, or actually WRITE the phone book.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Also true, if you don't use the APE tag or keep a log or otherwise don't know what the change was, you can't get back to the original volume level. But you are not stuck. You can still use mp3gain to make another change, up or down, to the overall volume level.
and how would you know what the orig volume level is to get back to?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
This brings up another issue I did not mention. In the case where you need to increase the overall volume, this is awkward with WA's RG implementation. You have to use the pre-amp adjustment. This then affects all the other files with established WA RG values, since this adjustment is applied ahead of the WA RG adjustments. If you need to use the pre-amp for some files, then I think you would need to reanalyze all the files you did without this pre-amp adjustment being applied to prevent them becoming too loud again.
i'm not following you here at all.

all the pre-amp does is adjust the baseline. so if ones RG tags get the files to 89db, and i adjust the pre-amp to +2 db, then now all the RG files will playback at 91db. where's the problem in that?

the only issue is the preamp adjust ALL files, including ones WITHOUT tags, but you can compensate for that by adjusting down the db setting for files WITHOUT RG tags, which by default is already at -6db.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aminifu View Post
Ok, thanx for your input. Now how do I apply all these changes? Will a moderator let me back into the original posts or do I have to do them all over again?
you probably need to do them again. i would start a new thread with new copy, and add a link from this one to the new one.

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--
BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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