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Old 20th July 2003, 14:27   #1
Raz
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What do you think the world will be like in 500 years?

Come on lets have some creative answers, an educated guess. And not a lot of "it'll have blown up" crap.

And any talk of avatars and i request for lockage.

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Old 20th July 2003, 14:38   #2
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The RIAA death squad will have replaced INTERPOL!

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Old 20th July 2003, 14:38   #3
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500 years - so we're talking 2503.

With the pace of technology it's hard to predict the next 50 years! I reckon on the following:

A 'one world state' will exist.
Globalisation may have lead to a single race (no ethnicity).
The Rolling Stones will play their retirement gig.

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Old 20th July 2003, 14:40   #4
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The same as it is now, only the USA will have gone tyrannical and California and New York will become massive prisons.

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Old 20th July 2003, 14:59   #5
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Easter Island springs to mind...especially if we continue at our present rate......



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Old 20th July 2003, 15:07   #6
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All people a world smart!
all people 300 year old!
all people godd!
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Old 20th July 2003, 15:08   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Cylob
The Rolling Stones will play their retirement gig.
LMAO!

*stumbles off to listen to Zagar & Evans "In The Year 2525" to get a clue*

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Old 20th July 2003, 15:11   #8
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Is there going to be a world in that year?


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Old 20th July 2003, 15:16   #9
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South Jersey will secede from New Jersey and become our own state, so we don't have to watch a North Jerset elecorate stumble and fuck up our home and beach. (the asshole broke his leg on a beach. A BEACH! In New Jersey, the most slope you get from a beach is a 25 degree angle. Esp in Ocean City, where he fell.

Guy's a moron.

We'll secede, that is, if the US hasn't become a police state yet.

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Old 20th July 2003, 15:43   #10
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penguins

that's all i gotta say

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Old 20th July 2003, 15:54   #11
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We wake up and realise we have been slaves to the Matrix...
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Old 20th July 2003, 16:01   #12
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World War 294 Will be going on.
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Old 20th July 2003, 16:55   #13
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500 years...that's way too far in time to make a sensible prediction about.

One thing I can realistically hope for is the planet Mars becoming like the Earth & I can imagine a significant part of the human population 'settling' in Mars & new countries/governments emerging there...
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Old 20th July 2003, 17:26   #14
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I hope we've been dead for several hundred years and that the Earth has begun to recover from the damage we've done to it. (Well, either dead, or on another planet, or smart enough to have repaired the damage we've caused ourselves... but "dead" seems the most likely at the moment).

The world is made of conflicts: good and evil, order and chaos, light and dark, hot and cold. All are essential to life. None can prevail for any length of time, or life will fail. In the end, the best any can hope for is balance.
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Old 20th July 2003, 17:57   #15
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It could easilly go the way of Easter Island (as Smeggle said). The last tree may be felled in 2503 in order to manufacture 10,000 cocktail-sticks. The planet could be going the way of Venus anyway, thanks largely to countries pretending global-warming doesn't exist.

I think humans will be around. Not alot else though. We are a bunch of cunts when you think about it.


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Old 20th July 2003, 18:34   #16
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sawgbot will still be running, spitting out answers to questions, even though winamp development dried up about 498 years previously....
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Old 20th July 2003, 18:37   #17
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America will be tring to sue almost everybody for not being american, Paris is toast (See Simpsons-Springfeild-Nuclear-Whipping boy) The EU will be a single Government, though nobody is exactly sure who they are.

Russia will be thrithing after finding that giant oilfeild, China is actualy a Working Communist state. Austrailia hasnt changed much... ..Oh and Japan will have giant Holographic monster battles every sunday night.

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Old 20th July 2003, 18:44   #18
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Quote:
Originally posted by Vie
America will be tring to sue almost everybody for not being american, Paris is toast (See Simpsons-Springfeild-Nuclear-Whipping boy) The EU will be a single Government, though nobody is exactly sure who they are.

Russia will be thrithing after finding that giant oilfeild, China is actualy a Working Communist state. Austrailia hasnt changed much... ..Oh and Japan will have giant Holographic monster battles every sunday night.
Seems about right to me.
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Old 20th July 2003, 18:53   #19
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We wake up and realise we have been slaves to the Matrix...
I think I've already figured that one out....


Quote:
Originally posted by Mr Jones
sawgbot will still be running, spitting out answers to questions, even though winamp development dried up about 498 years previously....
Winamp dying in 2005? NOOOOOO!!!!!

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Old 21st July 2003, 01:19   #20
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/me presents the history of earth from the year 2020 untill 2469. 466 years is close enough to 500. Besides, I ran out of ideas...


Quote:
2020: Quantum computers are perfected. The average computer is now the size of a standard paperback book. (OQO Company has one now, 2003. (not quantum, but book sized)). The average quantum computer is so cheap to make, pretty much everybody on earth has one.

2025: After the detection of an ELE (Extinction Level Event) asteroid on a collision course with Earth, the great nations come together to sign a global peace treaty. All nations are now treated equally, all using the same form of currency and laws. Languages between countries are still the same.

2030: A super-massive atomic bomb is sent aboard a Titan V rocket into space, on a collision course with the asteroid. The world hopes and prays that the mission to divert the course of the asteroid into the sun will succeed.

2040: The nuke explodes, and the asteroid is diverted into the sun. The world rejoices. The world is now sent into a second renascence of science and innovation.

2045: Holograms now perfected. Along with the study of quantum computers, the first computer that can calculate data at the speed of light is made. Fossil fuels are now depleted. Most pedestrians walk, ride bikes, or now use hydrogen or solar powered vehicles. Pollution is reduced drastically.

2055: Force fields are now available. FAL quantum computers joined with a hologram and a force field allow for the first holographic beings.

2056: With the advent of holographic people, and with the help of FAL quantum computers, AI is finally develop. They quickly learn their roll, and are accepted into society. They work peacefully with humans.

2057: The holographic AI demand to be given names. It was agreed that they may name their selves as they see fit. They also ask for their race to be known as Holomen. Terms are accepted, and work goes on as normal. The world schedule is but a mere 32 seconds behind schedule.

2060: With the advent of FAS (Fast As Light) quantum computing, a new discovery break through allows for FTL (Faster Than Light) computing. Mars has now had its first person on the planet, and safely returned.

2065: All Holomen are upgraded to FTL processors, free of charge. With the upgrades in place, Holomen become much more efficient. The need for a currency is now gone. Everything is freely available upon need.

2069: To celebrate the 100th anniversary of the moon landing, we pay another visit to the moon. Machinery is left behind to do astronomical studies.

2070: Following the advent of FTL quantum computing, the subatomic particle known as the tachyon is finally proven to exist.

2080: Through trial and error, a way to communicate with no lag between the earth and the moon is developed using tachyons. This channel of communications is now known as, what most old timers would figure: subspace.

2090: After years of research, a way is found to harness the power of the tachyon. Homes are now powered by this unlimited source of power. Nearly microscopic tacyon generators now power everything from computers, to cigarette lighters, to cars and airplanes.

2100: NASA tests it's first deep space probe, which uses an enormous tachoyn drive, code named Voyager X. The mission succeeds in sending the probe to Pluto in a matter of only 23 hours.

2110: A series of VX probes are sent to deploy subspace amps to boost signal for future space missions. These subspace amps extend all the way to the Kuiper Belt.

2115: It is found that after the size of a tachyon generator has reach a certain size, the energy output begins to increase at an exponential rate. Seeing its potential, the extraordinary power is used to produce dampening fields. Large ships are now built, using the largest tachyon engines ever made.

2120: The first human flight to Pluto in the Tachyon Express is a success. Three men traveled to Pluto in a matter of 16.7 hours, with no effects from relativity. Communications with earth was at 110% power, with no lag.

2130: Tachyon engines the size of whole homes now power enormous ships that would dwarf the ancient Titanic ocean liner. With such enormous power, the need for subspace generators are no longer needed, though they are still in use, incase of emergencies. The dawn of solar system human travel, beings.

2150: A Holoman steps forward with a radical design he has been computing for the last 20 years. A design for a tachyon drive. An engine powerful enough to push a ship beyond the speed of light. Using the tachyon engine to power a coil system to generate enough power to bend space and time around the ship, a prototype Tachyon Drive is under construction.

2160: The unmanned ship dubbed Voyager III leaves docking bay and heads for orbit around earth. Once in orbit it sets a path for Pluto. After starting it’s tachyon drive, it is gone in a blink of an eye. Moments later, communications from the ship come in. It has made the trip to Pluto in 1.73 seconds. The test was a success. The ship is brought home moments later.

2161: The first manned flight of the Voyager III takes place. A course is plotted to the star Alpha Centauri. The trip is estimated at 5.27 days. Communications with the ship is held in constant transmission. The flight goes without a hitch. Transmissions are received from the Alpha Centauri star system with 0.192 seconds of lag. The dawn of deep space exploration, begins.

2170: Colonization of other inhabitable planets within a 20 light-year radius of the sun begins. Minerals are mined from lifeless moons around some of these planets and used to produce buildings and space crafts, as well as other useful materials. The same government is carried over to each of these planets, now forming the Federation of Intergalactic Planets: FIPS.

2190: Colonization and exploration now extend to planets within a radius of 300 light-years of earth. At a distance of 284 light-years, staff aboard a ship picked up a distant static in sensors. After clearing the static, it was found to be a broadcast of the old earth song “Silent Night”. The broadcast was found to be the earliest radio broadcast on Earth, broadcasted 284 years ago.

2195: At a distance of 371 light-years from earth, a faint broadcast is heard. It was estimated to have originated 300 light-years ahead of them, at a distance of about 671 light-years from earth.

2200: Investigating the signal discovered 5 years earlier, it is decoded and found to be of intelligent alien origin. One of the newest ships with its crew is sent to investigate. Contact is made with a peaceful alien world, who are only a bit more technologically advanced that us. At the moment of contact, a FIPS wide broadcast is made, which consists of only four words: WE ARE NOT ALONE.

2201: The advancements of the alien species allow them to translate our speech, and they share this technology with us. We quickly learn their language. Meetings are held for an information interchange: they have technology more advanced that us in some areas, we have technology more advanced than they do in some areas.

2210: The alien species, the Derazians, now have the ability for sub-light speed space exploration. They vastly increase their knowledge of their own solar system thanks to the FIPS sharing of the tachyon engine. We now also have a great technological bound, thanks the the Derazians: Instantaneous matter/energy transportation. These quickly take root in almost every home on earth, and within the FIPS system.

2220: the IMATs use very little energy to transfer matter. But they are limited to the size of a planet. When hooked to tachyon engines, it was discovered that it was possible for long range transportation. With advanced computers, a system was made for IMAT in the earth solar system was produced, as well as for solar systems within the FIPS. Ships are rarely used for inter-solar system travel, they are only used for emergencies and scientific exploration and transportation.

2225: It is found that by hooking tachon drives to the IMATs, that travel across the whole FIPS region is possible. Instantaneous transmission within the whole 1,275 light-year radius of the sun greatly reduced the use of space ships. This also made communications lag between the system reduce from five seconds, to zero. Ships are now only use for scientific study, and for the placement of other IMATs.

2240: Three other races of alien species are found. One of which are intelligent, but are only on the technology scale of year 2000 earth. The other two are intelligent, but on the technology scale of 15th century earth. Between Humans, Holomen and Derazians, it is decided that contact would be made, but only very limited technological exchange will be made.

2245: It is found that the star for the Derazian home world is at a critical stage. Within 3 years or so, it will form into a red giant and engulf their home world. A treaty is made through the FIPS that the Derazian people may chose a planet of their liking within the FIPS network and live there. A planet is chosen, and within a year the inhabitants are moved to a new planet, and the Derazians take hold. Life for the Derazians continue peacefully on their new home.

2249: At a safe distance, several ships full of the greatest minds between the Humans, Holomen, and Derazians take advantage to witness the Derazians’ old world star begin forming into a red giant: A never before seen event for either of the races.

2250: Derazians, with help of Humans, now have their own tachyon dive ships. With their help, the FIPS network now extends for 12,000 light-years beyond the Human’s sun. Within the new reaches, seven other intelligent life forms are found. Contact with all but three have been made. One of which, are thousands of years more advanced than Humans.

2260: The more advanced species, the Zolan, are not fond of either the Derazians, Humans, or Holomen. A feud between the Zolan and the Humans, Holomen and Derazians take place.

2270: The feud breaks into war. The Derazian species are nearly wiped out, and countless Human/Holomen settlement plantes within the FIPS have become desolate and uninhabitable. Humans and Holomen use an array of IMATs along with some of the most powerfull tachyon drives available and set up a sort of ring in space. Using technology from some crash landed Zolan ships, the array is cloaked. A cloaked Human ship is sent to the center of the Milky Way and set up a second array. The second array is set on the edge of the event horizon of the galactic black hole.

2271: As a fleet of Zolan ships approach the last of 200 human strongholds, the array is activated, creating a worm hole that exits at the event horizon the the galactic black hole. With no time to retreat, the entire Zolan fleet is at an instant, shoved into the event horizon. It is a victory for the Human/Holomen race, and what little is left of the Derazians.

2275: Having rebuilt most of the planets in the FIPS network, the last of the Derazians make a plea: Save our people. It is decided that in order to help do so, they will use technology left behind from the Zolan to clone, along with breeding humans and Derazians to form a new breed.

2280: The first Human/Derazian is born: A Humazian.

2290: The Derazian race is nearly back on its feet. There are also thousands of Humazians now thriving on earth alone. The Humazians are extremely strong, and age much slower than that of normal Humans and Derazians. They become a valuable asset to the FIPS military force.

2300: After 245 years of peace, many Holomen come forward and say they are being treated unfairly, and they are being used as salves. News of this travels throughout the now 23,192 light-year diameter FIPS network, and an uprising of Holomen begin. A law is brought into effect stating that all Holomen will be treated as the rest of the inhabitants, that the work force will be equal.

2305: The Holomen law does not work, humans too accustom to Holomen doing the work, a civil war breaks out. The non-Holomen death toll rises quickly, as their force fields make them impenetrable to conventional weapons. Massive EMP’s are generated around the FIPS network and all Holomen are deactivated.

2310: The usage of Holomen are outlawed. They are deemed too dangerous to have operating. It is proposed that Holomen be stripped of an AI and be used as personal assistants. The Holomen are quickly brought back into business, but AI-less, posing no harm.

2315: A single probe carrying an IMAT is sent on its way twards the Andromeda galaxy. At it’s current speed, it is estimated to take 75 years to reach its destination. The IMAT is powerd by 10 massive tachyon engines to ensure communications can be established.

2320: The FIPS network now extends to a quarter of the Milky Way galaxy. There are now over 150 known intelligent species in this known section, and hundreds more semi-intelligent (pre 1300’s earth history). Societies of these 150+ species co-exist peacefully, throughout the FIPS network.

2330: A piece of complex Zolan technology from the war, was finally reverse engineered and understood how it worked. The technology allowed its users to be telepathically connected to others. This greatly increased the knowledge of the races within the FIPS network. Engineered to work along with IMATs, communications can be made on a person-wide basis, or personal basis.

2350: For an unknown reason, all of the older FIPS network plants have had a sharp, sudden decrease of oxygen levels, and an increase of nitrogen. For this reason, Earth, and most earlier planets become uninhabitable, and the people of these planets move to newer plants within the FIPS network.

2370: It is discovered that the Tachyon particles in the drives and engines are decaying. And in the process emitting particles that are eating oxygen at a tremendous rate. An immediate ban on tachyon devices is set in place. The FIPS network must now revert to early 20th century fuels to travel. Solar panels now operate IMATs, but they are only good now for planetary communications and transmission of energy/matter. Communications between FIPS now rely on old subspace transmissions, with lag times of up to 3 hours (subspace communications require no engines, only tachyons to store and transmit data. No pollution is caused by this.).

2383: The engines of the Zolan ships are reverse engineered to see how they work. It is discovered that they use an Anti-matter generator to generate massive amounts of deuterium anti-mater, and collide them with deuterium, producing an extreme amount of energy. Old tachyon drive ships are fitted with matter/anti-matter reactors to power the coils for FTL travel. Though much larger than tachyon engines, matter/anti-matter power plants are produced on the planets of the FIPS network, and IMAPs are 100% operational.

2395: With over 98% of the Milky Way explored, and over 600 alien species within the FIPS, it is time to explore beyond the Milky Way. The IMAT that was sent off 80 years earlier activates itself and gains contact with the FIPS network. Once contact was made, a series of 3,000 more FIPS are transmitted through with onboard FTL computers with instructions to form a ring. Each FIPS is powerd be 20 massive matter/anti-matter drives. The ring of FIPS that was once located at the event horizon of the Milky Way’s galactic black hole now have been destroyed, the first ring is now fitted with massive matter/anti-matter drives and aimed towards the Andromeda galaxy. Both rings activate to form a wormhole extending to the Andromeda galaxy. A junk ship was successfully sent to and from Andromeda, with a lag of only 8 minutes.

2396: Fleets of FIPS network ships travel through the wormhole twards the Andromeda galaxy, upon arrival, scouting out new inhabitable planets. Within three years, whole networks of MITS are set up to form various wormhole connections between various parts of both galaxies have been made.

2400: With a vast part of the Andromeda galaxy now known, and many more races joining the FIPS network, a new renaissance of understanding and science is under way. Cures for diseases throughout the races are discovered; the human life span is 129 years and the average Humazian life span is 212 years. Peace is throughout the two galaxies.

2420: The next evolutionary step in Humans is observed. The humans brain capacity is now 250% above what it used to be. Average human height is 5’9”, and over-all strength is comparable to the Humazians. The human skin is tougher and more resistant to radiation and can stand heat of up to 328 degrees Fahrenheit.

2430: Salvage trips to the earth are under way. Many relics are brought back to main FIPS planets for archiving and preservation. New machines are placed on earth, as well as various other planets that were destroyed during the war of 2270 to rebuild the atmosphere. Millions of super-Holomen are built to reconstruct buildings.

2440: Earth is once again habitable and within weeks, it is repopulated. Upon rebuilding earth, Holomen from various places uncover time capsules left from old earth, dates ranging from the early 1800’s to the 2020’s. These items are placed within a new museum built on earth to honor the men that came before them. During the war of 2270, many archives were lost. History was forgotten. These relics contained enough information for humans to understand and learn about their past.

2450: Technology has slowed to a halt. Nothing further has been discovered or invented that advanced beyond what is already known. The various species of the FIPS focus on advancing knowledge and understanding, as well as entertainment.

2460: The FIPS now extends throughout 12 galaxies. Thousands of species have joins the FIPS network, most of which live in harmony. Wars break out between a few. Though causing massive damage, the wars are resolved within a relatively short time.

2469: to commemorate the first moon landing in earth’s history, a replica of the Apollo 11 is built and sent blasting towards space. Billions of trillions of people across the FIPS network watch this event, as three Human people once again step foot back on the moon. The original flag is found, and next to it, a modern flag and plaque are placed next to it, as well as a disc containing history from the past 500 years.

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Old 21st July 2003, 01:58   #21
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woa. That's awesome. Shame I'll be dead before all the cool stuff goes down.

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Old 21st July 2003, 04:11   #22
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fickle
South Jersey will secede from New Jersey and become our own state, so we don't have to watch a North Jerset elecorate stumble and fuck up our home and beach. (the asshole broke his leg on a beach. A BEACH! In New Jersey, the most slope you get from a beach is a 25 degree angle. Esp in Ocean City, where he fell.

Guy's a moron.

We'll secede, that is, if the US hasn't become a police state yet.
South Jersey? Rather Central Jersey and we will become the next Florida.Too many retirement homes going up.


Rip the shacles from your ankles and live your life damnit
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Old 21st July 2003, 14:11   #23
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humanity will most likely be eradicated, taking most of the life on this planet with it. Some forms of bacteria and simple life (ie: fungus) may still thrive but the planet will most likely be in a transition state of either an unprobable self repair or a more probable gradual degradation into a environment similar to that of mars.

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Old 21st July 2003, 16:58   #24
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One question Gogitta, Why was the Voyager III launched AFTER the Voyager X?

The world is made of conflicts: good and evil, order and chaos, light and dark, hot and cold. All are essential to life. None can prevail for any length of time, or life will fail. In the end, the best any can hope for is balance.
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Old 21st July 2003, 20:05   #25
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Quote:
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I hope we've been dead for several hundred years and that the Earth has begun to recover from the damage we've done to it. (Well, either dead, or on another planet, or smart enough to have repaired the damage we've caused ourselves... but "dead" seems the most likely at the moment).
So it would be okay if we were on some other planet fucking it up as long as it's not earth?
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Old 21st July 2003, 20:08   #26
Nimelennar
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I'd prefer if it was one we'd terraformed from a Mars-like state (ie, no original life to screw up), but yeah.

The world is made of conflicts: good and evil, order and chaos, light and dark, hot and cold. All are essential to life. None can prevail for any length of time, or life will fail. In the end, the best any can hope for is balance.
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Old 21st July 2003, 20:15   #27
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but then we'd be screwing the natural barrenness of mars.
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Old 21st July 2003, 20:52   #28
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I say it will be exactly like futurama.
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Old 21st July 2003, 21:08   #29
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Does anyone else notice that we are part of nature and anything we do is not "against nature" but as we are part of nature we are just continuing with the natural process. Everything we build or destroy has been acomplished by using natural materials so why isn't it natural?

Just thought i'd throw that in.

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Old 21st July 2003, 21:25   #30
EfaustuS9
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most creatures live with in the natural carrying capacity of there surroundings. Where as humans with their larger cerebrums can minipulate the envroment to its will thanks to agriculture and industry. The origins of all our products are of couse natural in there individual parts, yet the combinations and concentrations of these products are not. We manipulate and abuse to the world to our myopic will, and I think the world would be better with out us. Either way I dont realy care I will be dead in about 50 years, so if this species and the world thrives or dies will not be adversly affected. so suck the marrow out and enjoy, I dont give a damn, hell I join you.

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Old 21st July 2003, 21:27   #31
SSJ4 Gogitta
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Originally posted by Nimelennar
One question Gogitta, Why was the Voyager III launched AFTER the Voyager X?
X = eXperimental

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Old 21st July 2003, 21:30   #32
Nimelennar
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oh...
so what happens when they're launching the next Voyager after Voyager IX?

The world is made of conflicts: good and evil, order and chaos, light and dark, hot and cold. All are essential to life. None can prevail for any length of time, or life will fail. In the end, the best any can hope for is balance.
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Old 21st July 2003, 21:40   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by Raz
Does anyone else notice that we are part of nature and anything we do is not "against nature" but as we are part of nature we are just continuing with the natural process. Everything we build or destroy has been acomplished by using natural materials so why isn't it natural?

Just thought i'd throw that in.
Heh, I've been saying this for years. Everything is made from atoms which occur naturally in the universe.
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Old 21st July 2003, 21:48   #34
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Efaustu, your point doesn't make sense. Just because you mix two things doesn't mean that it isn't matural. C02 (Carbon Dioxide) Is a naturally occuring gas but that is a compound containing carbon and oxygen. i e, two mixed things. So if we mix things all of a sudden it isn't natural. Please.

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Old 21st July 2003, 21:54   #35
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"Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment but you humans do not. You move to an area and you multiply and multiply until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet."
Agent Smith - The Matrix

The world is made of conflicts: good and evil, order and chaos, light and dark, hot and cold. All are essential to life. None can prevail for any length of time, or life will fail. In the end, the best any can hope for is balance.
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Old 21st July 2003, 22:08   #36
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I give it about 50-100 years before a Mad Max scenario...500? your definately talking Easter Island...What a great Epitaph that will be..Of course we could all ways do some thing about, emmm just what I haven't figured out yet

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Old 21st July 2003, 22:49   #37
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Realistically, I think that the world will just be a shittier version of today- much more polution, worse wars, worse leaders (probably somewhat like Farenheit 451). I doubt that we will be much more advanced technologically, and I doubt we will have colonies in space. (If we do, it will probably be on the moon).

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Old 22nd July 2003, 02:47   #38
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you missed my point raz, yes every thing is natural in a sense, but not necessarily naturally occurring. You can argue about "natural” in the broadest sense and use some simple and common chemical compounds to attempt to prove your point. But here is mine; It requires a specific manipulation for some of these products to enter a cretin state, uranium dose not naturally enrich end up in a special in a rocket propelled cylinder, nor does nitroglycerin C3H5(ONO2)3 naturally form then mix with saw dust to create TNT. Also when non native species are introduced into a ecosystem not acclimated to support them, they case havoc they system struggles or fails (maybe we were introduced to this plaint). Every thing is natural so all that is derived from it is also natural, simple all encompassing. All objects man made or otherwise all consist of nature, my point is that some of these objects are not naturally occurring, in that they would not other wise exist in this biosphere or even possibly the universe with out a cognitive will creating or manipulating them. so depending on which vantage you take we both have a point.

Ultimately, my hypothesis on the fate of our species IS natural (in your sense), in that it is a product of the products of nature. so by this reasoning, where I started is where I will finish, I don’t expect the human species to be here in 500 years.

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Old 22nd July 2003, 14:22   #39
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So is honey unnatural? It is made by bees, and it wouldn't occur if the bees did not make it.
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Old 22nd July 2003, 17:21   #40
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I'll tell 'ya what it's like when I get there. *goes back to working on his time machine*

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