Do-Not-Call List Unconstitutional

dlinkwit27 · 27th September 2003, 02:51

WASHINGTON (AP) - Telemarketers will be free to make sales pitches next week to people who registered for the national do-not-call list, the government said Friday.

At the same time, the industry's largest association was urging its members to respect the wishes of the millions who say they don't want to be bothered.

The Federal Trade Commission acknowledged that a federal judge's ruling in Denver that the registry infringes on telemarketers' free speech rights left the agency with no authority to enforce the list, which was scheduled to take effect next Wednesday.

``You can still put your number on the national registry,'' the FTC said in a statement posted on its Web site, ``but for now, telemarketers are not required to comply with it.''

The FTC asked the judge to temporarily suspend his ruling while an appeal that the agency filed with the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver proceeds.

Meantime, the Direct Marketing Association said its members should not call the nearly 51 million numbers on the list.

``We are telling our members, yes indeed, we don't want you calling people who have told anyone they don't want any calls,'' President H. Robert Wientzen said. He said he hadn't had time to arrange agreements making that request binding, but ``up to the moment I have had nobody disagree.''

Some telemarketers said they wondered if they could comply with the list even if they wanted to.

``The judge said it was illegal to create the list. By implication, it's possible it's illegal to use the list,'' said Tim Searcy, executive director of the American Teleservices Association, one of the groups that brought the Denver lawsuit.

At any rate, the result will be mixed for consumers, said Walter Janowski, a director with the research firm Gartner Inc.

``Legitimate telemarketers will listen,'' he said. ``It's the ones that are less legitimate or somewhat sleazy that are the ones we have the problems with to begin with.''

The confusion capped a tumultuous week for the list, which is intended to block about 80 percent of telemarketing calls.

U.S. District Court Judge Lee R. West in Oklahoma City ruled Tuesday that the FTC lacks the authority to operate the registry. That prompted Congress to move with near record speed and in one day pass a bill making it clear the agency may oversee the list. President Bush plans to sign the bill Monday.

While Congress was doing its work Thursday, U.S. District Judge Edward W. Nottingham in Denver issued a ruling saying the list is unconstitutional. Nottingham found speech is treated unequally because the list applies to calls from businesses but not charities.

``I do not believe that our Constitution dictates such an illogical result,'' FTC Chairman Timothy Muris said. ``To the contrary, our Constitution allows consumers to choose not to receive commercial telemarketing calls.''

Muris said that if Nottingham's reasoning was applied elsewhere, it would cripple more than two dozen other state do-not-call lists.

In yet another court ruling related to the list, a three-judge panel of the Denver appeals court on Friday denied a request from telemarketers challenging the Federal Communications Commission's role in the registry.

The FCC added its authority to the list to stop calls from certain industries it regulates, including airlines, banks and telephone companies. The telemarketers requested that the judges temporarily block that agency's rules involving the registry. Though that was denied, the case continues.

People may sign up for the list at www.donotcall.gov or by calling 1-888-382-1222. Telemarketers are supposed to check every three months to see who does not want to be called. If the list is implemented, telemarketers could be fined up to $11,000 each time they call a number on the list. Consumers would file complaints to an automated phone or online system.

Exemptions to the list include calls from charities, pollsters and on behalf of politicians.

Wientzen said that despite telling members to obey the wishes of people who don't want to be called, the telemarketing industry still opposes the list. The Direct Marketing Association was one of the groups that brought the case decided by West.

``We don't think this is an appropriate role for government,'' Wientzen said.

On the Net:

Status of the do-not-call registry: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcam...x.html%und-off

(

griffinn · 27th September 2003, 04:32

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Starbucks · 27th September 2003, 05:29

Quote:

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gt55x · 27th September 2003, 10:43

I myself would not like people phoneing me up selling me stuff.

All those idiots should be forsed out of work and go work in a proper job.....instead of tormenting people.

If i lived in the US first thing i get is a caller id..and something to block em.

godoncrack · 28th September 2003, 00:28

i get calls at 9 @ night
if i could, i'd have everyone of them shot
eventually, i will

caitcid · 28th September 2003, 03:22

I actually like it when telemarketers call...then I can play dumb and ask them a bunch of questions on the phone. >=) But unless its a machine..and pressing random numbers don't call in a person or whatever...it isnt any fun.

But a lot of shit is unconstitutional. The first ammendment was that you can pick any religion you want without the goverment interfering with it. But look at some of the "patriotic songs" about the us being under god. -_- and the money with "In god we trust" hypocritics.

laz · 28th September 2003, 04:44

I was thinking that ruling got overturned, seeing that is BULLSHIT that it was declared unsonstitutional. And caitcid has a good point. Money is unconstitutional. And dont give me any "Oh, its tradition" Bullshit, that was killed in about every lawsuit out there. Coffie can not be hot.....

DJHotIce · 28th September 2003, 20:50

caitcid,
most people don't know this but, having a recording call your house (unless its legal court, services you signed up for, credit card statements, or political) is an automatic NO NO acording to the law, so if you have lets say a car dealership (who you didn't by a car from) call you about a contest, find out the name, and report it to the proper athorities, that is illegal and they are suppost to have a live person on at the other end!

FesterHead · 28th September 2003, 21:17

Here's what I do for telemarketers selling service X.

Them: We'd like to sell you service X.
Me: I already get service X for free.
Them: Oh, who do you get service X for free from?
Me: Do your own homework.
Me: Would you like me to switch to your service X?
Them: Yes please.
Me: Since I already get service X for free, you'll have to pay me $100 a month to use your service X?
Them: Sorry, we can't do that.
Me: Ok. How about $200 a month?
Them: Um...
Me: $300 a month. You know this is going to start really costing you guys a lot of money.
Them: Click.

It's fun.

DJHotIce · 28th September 2003, 21:42

yea its funnier when you go in more detail on MSN haha.. Telemarketeres are soo much fun. (me gets phone and calls festerhead)

duh · 29th September 2003, 03:08

see, it is not unconstitutional, the government made no law declarding that you must have a phone, that you must let that phone ring, that you must answer your phone, if you don't want people calling you, get a one way phone line.

DJHotIce · 29th September 2003, 03:43

Quote:

Originally posted by duh
see, it is not unconstitutional, the government made no law declarding that you must have a phone, that you must let that phone ring, that you must answer your phone, if you don't want people calling you, get a one way phone line.

you have a great point there

Mattress · 29th September 2003, 04:25

How does one get a one way phone line?

duh · 30th September 2003, 04:34

tell your phone company you don't want to recieve any incoming calls.

s1138 · 30th September 2003, 05:36

the pure boredom of my life has made telemarketers fun for me..
for instance the other day:
"hello is who is your current phone service provider?"
"i dont have a phone"
"you dont?"
"no."
"shouldnt you be in school"
"i decided not to go, school is boring"
"umm..ok"
"yeah, i just didnt want to go today"
"ok, bye" *click*

griffinn · 2nd October 2003, 02:29

How about a "do not portscan" list for IP addresses?

Mattress · 2nd October 2003, 04:08

Since I got cable internat I've ditched my land line. I don't have any telemarketers calling my cellphone.

27th September 2003, 02:51	#1
dlinkwit27 has no CT (Forum King) Join Date: Sep 2000 Posts: 13,236	Do-Not-Call List Unconstitutional WASHINGTON (AP) - Telemarketers will be free to make sales pitches next week to people who registered for the national do-not-call list, the government said Friday. At the same time, the industry's largest association was urging its members to respect the wishes of the millions who say they don't want to be bothered. The Federal Trade Commission acknowledged that a federal judge's ruling in Denver that the registry infringes on telemarketers' free speech rights left the agency with no authority to enforce the list, which was scheduled to take effect next Wednesday. ``You can still put your number on the national registry,'' the FTC said in a statement posted on its Web site, ``but for now, telemarketers are not required to comply with it.'' The FTC asked the judge to temporarily suspend his ruling while an appeal that the agency filed with the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in Denver proceeds. Meantime, the Direct Marketing Association said its members should not call the nearly 51 million numbers on the list. ``We are telling our members, yes indeed, we don't want you calling people who have told anyone they don't want any calls,'' President H. Robert Wientzen said. He said he hadn't had time to arrange agreements making that request binding, but ``up to the moment I have had nobody disagree.'' Some telemarketers said they wondered if they could comply with the list even if they wanted to. ``The judge said it was illegal to create the list. By implication, it's possible it's illegal to use the list,'' said Tim Searcy, executive director of the American Teleservices Association, one of the groups that brought the Denver lawsuit. At any rate, the result will be mixed for consumers, said Walter Janowski, a director with the research firm Gartner Inc. ``Legitimate telemarketers will listen,'' he said. ``It's the ones that are less legitimate or somewhat sleazy that are the ones we have the problems with to begin with.'' The confusion capped a tumultuous week for the list, which is intended to block about 80 percent of telemarketing calls. U.S. District Court Judge Lee R. West in Oklahoma City ruled Tuesday that the FTC lacks the authority to operate the registry. That prompted Congress to move with near record speed and in one day pass a bill making it clear the agency may oversee the list. President Bush plans to sign the bill Monday. While Congress was doing its work Thursday, U.S. District Judge Edward W. Nottingham in Denver issued a ruling saying the list is unconstitutional. Nottingham found speech is treated unequally because the list applies to calls from businesses but not charities. ``I do not believe that our Constitution dictates such an illogical result,'' FTC Chairman Timothy Muris said. ``To the contrary, our Constitution allows consumers to choose not to receive commercial telemarketing calls.'' Muris said that if Nottingham's reasoning was applied elsewhere, it would cripple more than two dozen other state do-not-call lists. In yet another court ruling related to the list, a three-judge panel of the Denver appeals court on Friday denied a request from telemarketers challenging the Federal Communications Commission's role in the registry. The FCC added its authority to the list to stop calls from certain industries it regulates, including airlines, banks and telephone companies. The telemarketers requested that the judges temporarily block that agency's rules involving the registry. Though that was denied, the case continues. People may sign up for the list at www.donotcall.gov or by calling 1-888-382-1222. Telemarketers are supposed to check every three months to see who does not want to be called. If the list is implemented, telemarketers could be fined up to $11,000 each time they call a number on the list. Consumers would file complaints to an automated phone or online system. Exemptions to the list include calls from charities, pollsters and on behalf of politicians. Wientzen said that despite telling members to obey the wishes of people who don't want to be called, the telemarketing industry still opposes the list. The Direct Marketing Association was one of the groups that brought the case decided by West. ``We don't think this is an appropriate role for government,'' Wientzen said. On the Net: Status of the do-not-call registry: http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/edcam...x.html%und-off ( ::Deviant Me::Last.fm::WhatPulse Stats::Folding @ Home

27th September 2003, 04:32	#2
griffinn Court Jester (Forum King) Join Date: May 2000 Location: Your local toystore Posts: 3,501	http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?threadid=149191 tada.wav!! The smiley slot machine! \| Quotable Blog

28th September 2003, 00:28	#5
godoncrack Forum King Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: http://www.mossad.gov.il Posts: 2,135	i get calls at 9 @ night if i could, i'd have everyone of them shot eventually, i will sin is human

28th September 2003, 20:50	#8
DJHotIce Forum Loser (Forum King) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: That place I can't remember the name. Posts: 4,617	caitcid, most people don't know this but, having a recording call your house (unless its legal court, services you signed up for, credit card statements, or political) is an automatic NO NO acording to the law, so if you have lets say a car dealership (who you didn't by a car from) call you about a contest, find out the name, and report it to the proper athorities, that is illegal and they are suppost to have a live person on at the other end! -DJHotIce Bounce Multimedia - Professional Web Design

28th September 2003, 21:42	#10
DJHotIce Forum Loser (Forum King) Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: That place I can't remember the name. Posts: 4,617	yea its funnier when you go in more detail on MSN haha.. Telemarketeres are soo much fun. (me gets phone and calls festerhead) -DJHotIce Bounce Multimedia - Professional Web Design

27th September 2003, 10:43	#4
gt55x Senior Member Join Date: May 2003 Posts: 230	I myself would not like people phoneing me up selling me stuff. All those idiots should be forsed out of work and go work in a proper job.....instead of tormenting people. If i lived in the US first thing i get is a caller id..and something to block em.

28th September 2003, 03:22	#6
caitcid Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: where!!?!?? Posts: 195	I actually like it when telemarketers call...then I can play dumb and ask them a bunch of questions on the phone. >=) But unless its a machine..and pressing random numbers don't call in a person or whatever...it isnt any fun. But a lot of shit is unconstitutional. The first ammendment was that you can pick any religion you want without the goverment interfering with it. But look at some of the "patriotic songs" about the us being under god. -_- and the money with "In god we trust" hypocritics.

28th September 2003, 04:44	#7
laz Major Dude Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: the internet Posts: 1,089	I was thinking that ruling got overturned, seeing that is BULLSHIT that it was declared unsonstitutional. And caitcid has a good point. Money is unconstitutional. And dont give me any "Oh, its tradition" Bullshit, that was killed in about every lawsuit out there. Coffie can not be hot.....

28th September 2003, 21:17	#9
FesterHead Alumni Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Maui, Hawaii Posts: 14,108	Here's what I do for telemarketers selling service X. Them: We'd like to sell you service X. Me: I already get service X for free. Them: Oh, who do you get service X for free from? Me: Do your own homework. Me: Would you like me to switch to your service X? Them: Yes please. Me: Since I already get service X for free, you'll have to pay me $100 a month to use your service X? Them: Sorry, we can't do that. Me: Ok. How about $200 a month? Them: Um... Me: $300 a month. You know this is going to start really costing you guys a lot of money. Them: Click. It's fun.

29th September 2003, 03:08	#11
duh Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 290	see, it is not unconstitutional, the government made no law declarding that you must have a phone, that you must let that phone ring, that you must answer your phone, if you don't want people calling you, get a one way phone line.

29th September 2003, 04:25	#13
Mattress Forum King Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 4,577	How does one get a one way phone line? Besides shooting out a big blank from your buttock, you can feel as if your root chakra leaked sweet hot mucus.

30th September 2003, 04:34	#14
duh Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 290	tell your phone company you don't want to recieve any incoming calls.

30th September 2003, 05:36	#15
s1138 Alumni? Join Date: May 2000 Location: joja Posts: 6,936	the pure boredom of my life has made telemarketers fun for me.. for instance the other day: "hello is who is your current phone service provider?" "i dont have a phone" "you dont?" "no." "shouldnt you be in school" "i decided not to go, school is boring" "umm..ok" "yeah, i just didnt want to go today" "ok, bye" click

2nd October 2003, 02:29	#16
griffinn Court Jester (Forum King) Join Date: May 2000 Location: Your local toystore Posts: 3,501	How about a "do not portscan" list for IP addresses? The smiley slot machine! \| Quotable Blog

2nd October 2003, 04:08	#17
Mattress Forum King Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Milwaukee Posts: 4,577	Since I got cable internat I've ditched my land line. I don't have any telemarketers calling my cellphone. Besides shooting out a big blank from your buttock, you can feel as if your root chakra leaked sweet hot mucus.

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