2GHz Pentium M vs Athlon FX, 64, vs Pentium 4!

[Starbucks]

http://www.x86-secret.com/articles/c...n/dothan-5.htm Article is in French. The new Pentium M comes with 2MB of on-die cache, 90nm fab. In most of the tests, the 2GHz P-M is virtually equal to the Athlon FX! Overclocking results are on the next page. Just watch what happens when this core comes with an on-die memory controller and 64-bit extensions (Next year ).

[Myxomatosis]

Now what is an on-die memory controller?

[MStar]

Summary:
So that's the Intel line that'll give the Athlon FX series the run for their money.

[mikeflca]

What's with it apparently saying that all the processors that were tested were (until the overclocking section) all at 2 ghz? (or am I not reading it correctly?)

very interesting article though.

[horse-fly]

i am sleepy...

so is the new intel chip better than athlon? i am not too good with english "phrases"

[zootm]

Originally posted by mikeflca
What's with it apparently saying that all the processors that were tested were (until the overclocking section) all at 2 ghz? (or am I not reading it correctly?)

the new A64s run at 2GHz, and beat existing intel processors running at 3.2GHz - this shows intel competing at comparable clock speeds, i think.

[MStar]

And their new processors at equal speeds meet or exceed athlon FX performance.

Horse-fly: Yes.

[Omega X]

So Intel finally climbed down off of its high horse to compete. Good, now lets see what AMD does to counter this...

Ultimately this results in better computing for all....

[whiteflip]

they are forgetting price. athlon fx processors are very pricey. i dont know how pricey the pentium m's are. also the 64 bits of the atholon will come into future play while non of the intel chips feature this.

also can penitum m motherboards be bought in atx or baby atx or some other similar desktop case form factor? or are they forever going to be laptop only processors?

[MStar]

The new Pentium 4M processors will have 64-bit next year.

[mikeflca]

ok......

so, while an athlon (not atholon or athalon, hehe) 64 3400+ (which usually runs at 2.2, i think, or maybe 2.4....i forgot....), can perform about equal to a P4 running at 3.2 or 3.4 ghz, when they are both underclocked to 2.0 ghz, they perform equally? uhh......right. Intel can only compete with (or in certain things like media encoding beat) a64 because they have higher cloock speeds; at lower clocks (i.e. p4 2.0 vs athlon XP 2000+) even the athlon XP is an equal performer to the P4. I find it just as hard to believe that a 3.4 ghz Athlon64 would perform equally to a 3.4 P4 northwood when often, the current 3400+ can outperform the P4 (in gaming at least ).

That said, the dothan still looks like a good processor, but I am a bit unsure as to the real speeds the CPUs were tested at and what the pricing is, as whiteflip said.

[Myxomatosis]

What the... Your saying that the Intels are somewhat equal to the AMD's but when I look at the graphs, AMD's are cooler and perform(sp?) better than the Pentiums.

[Edit]Oh, I see, the Dothan is the Intel M. At first, I thought it said Duron

[Starbucks]

lets see what AMD does to counter this...

AMD lowered prices of Athlon XP-M chips the same day Dothan was released. Good for us of corse.

Now what is an on-die memory controller?

An on-die memory controller well, it's a regualr memory controller put inside a processor die (the chip). Usually you will find the memory controller in the northbridge on your motherboard. A memory controller "on-die" reduces lancity by connecting your memory directly with your CPU. Basically, it's closer, abnd closer = faster. think of it as taking your car to work, but if you happen to work closer to where you live you will get there faster!

I am a bit unsure as to the real speeds the CPUs were tested at and what the pricing is, as whiteflip said.

Pentium M 755 - 2.0 GHz (20*100) - i855PE Single Channel DDR333 - 512MB Memory

Pentium 4 'C' - 2.0 GHz (15*133) - Dual Channel DDR333 - 512MB Memory

Athlon 64 - 2.0 GHz (10*200) - Single Channel DDR400 - 512MB Memory

Athlon 64 FX-51 - 2.0 GHz (10*200) - Dual Channel DDR400 Reg. ECC- 512MB Memory

The Pentium 4 is a Northwood clocked at 2GHz with DDR333.
The Pentium M is a Dothan clocked at 2GHz with DDR333.

Bottom line: The Pentium M with slower memory and slow memory controller is similar to that of an Athlon FX or 64.

Now you can buy Pentium M motherboards but they are bundled and are kinda expensive because no one will adopt it as a desktop chip. So that means for now, the Athlon (64) is the best buy, at least until (if ever) P-M gets a real desktop motherboard.

[m0e]

My understanding is Intel is hesitant to promote the M chip as a desktop processor because it makes the P4 kinda look like a chump. The Dothan benchmarks better, runs cooler and takes less power than any of the P4’s at the same speed. If they come out with a Dothan desktop how will they sell the P4’s or Celerons they have now.

[mikeflca]

the fact that they can still sell celerons is laughable, but that's beside the point....

After seeing so many other graphs from other sources that show the A64 performing about the same as a P4, I find it hard to believe those speeds.....unless those benchmarks in French weren't in gaming, I guess the A64's real strength is in gaming...

Intel undoubtably wants to "milk" its current CPU's to make as much $ as possible and I don't blame them. a P4 2.8'C' is a pretty good deal.

[Omega X]

Originally posted by mikeflca
the fact that they can still sell celerons is laughable, but that's beside the point....

After seeing so many other graphs from other sources that show the A64 performing about the same as a P4, I find it hard to believe those speeds.....unless those benchmarks in French weren't in gaming, I guess the A64's real strength is in gaming...

Intel undoubtably wants to "milk" its current CPU's to make as much $ as possible and I don't blame them. a P4 2.8'C' is a pretty good deal.

IT'll probabaly save them money if they discontinue making "Celery" processors. Those things are crap times 2.

[xzxzzx]

Wait, can you even buy a P4M at 2.0 Ghz yet?

[whiteflip]

They need to replace the god damn P4's with PM's. I knew from the start that P4's were crap because PIII's preformed better and cooler. P4's are ugly hot and slow. Now will intel come to its senses and sell PM's for desktops or will everyone just go out and buy Athlons?

[dylman]

Originally posted by whiteflip
They need to replace the god damn P4's with PM's. I knew from the start that P4's were crap because PIII's preformed better and cooler. P4's are ugly hot and slow. Now will intel come to its senses and sell PM's for desktops or will everyone just go out and buy Athlons?

They already have come to their senses. The next generation of P4s will be Pentium-M based, and will be remarkably similar to the K8 Athlon.

[Starbucks]

If they come out with a Dothan desktop how will they sell the P4’s or Celerons they have now.

Intel has decided to can the P4. They will sell of most of their supply, plus it doesn't cost them a great deal to make P4s.

The next generation Pentium will not be based on the P4's netburst architecture any longer, it will be a strange mix of P4 and PM, but MOSTLY PM. Today's PM is basically what you would have if Intel decided to go with the PIII's "short and fat" pipeline. Remember now, AMD has been cloning Intel chips since the start of AMD, but without the some of the instructions the P3 had. That's what made Intel as big as they are today. They tried to sue AMD for this but were unsuccessful, go figure. That is why Intel will now be able to support AMD64 extensions without paying royalties. AMD reverse engineered Intel without penalties, now Intel will do the same. Intel has already haulted all further development of "long and skinny" pipeline P4 type chips.

PM desktop support will come next year but obviously won't be called PM.

Right now the 2GHz PM costs at least $733. Strangely enough, it's the same price as AMD's top of the line chip, the FX. I rekon that Intel will play "drop the price so low AMD won't wanna play" again.

[m0e]

Originally posted by Starbucks
PM desktop support will come next year but obviously won't be called PM.

This was kinda my point. Intel is trying to avoid another marketing “problem”. Much like the PII knowingly sold with built in calculation errors, AMD processors far more efficient (much better performance at the same speed), being “scooped” on a 64 bit processor for a PC, coming out with a new processor (Prescott) while they already have a much better product (Dothan) would be just plain embarrassing.

[whiteflip]

Ahh good times. hopefully they will play the "lets see how much money we can lose game" that the video game consoles are doing. Good times for my wallet.

[Starbucks]

If by next year Intel makes what they say they will make, it will probably be my most major upgrade all at once. That's pprobably too far into the future.