Clean video or link exchange... Your ideas?.

[rockouthippie]

I run WebRanger TV. I have been looking at link exchanges. Most of them are spammy and mess up your page design.

I have been running some in-stream vid and banners for other sites.

I have hosting for such a service. What do you broadcasters think?.

I was thinking about small banners maybe 150 by 100 for swap. Maybe just a little script to pop out a row of links.

I was also thinking about an FTP server, so we could share promo AVI's. Re-encode for your stream and swap.

Another idea that I had was to create a page that web broadcasters could share that would promote our sites. This would be for money. Maybe buy the Google keyword "internet tv" and the like and split up the cost between our sites. A banner selling ads would defray the cost.

To survive, I need more hits on my site, not more viewers from the Shoutcast directory.

When hTtP died, my Alexa rating fell from 300,000 to 5 million.

We need to get people in the "Front Door".

I am absolutely not interested in promoting porn sites.

Nullsoft is not interested in promoting us, so we need to figure out something.

I don't think any of us really compete for viewers. Everybody who's decent is FULL.

Merry Christmas

[Inedible Bulk]

Join Jeeper One's little NSV Webring so it'll have two members.

[ken52787]

That isn't a bad idea, I think we should get something going.

[Jeeper One]

Hi everyone:

Well....Joining the NSV WebRing I created WILL get something going.

Cheers for now & Happy Holidays

[toqer]

Never underestimate the power of flyers at local colleges.

[darkstar2002c]

A web ring isnt going to do much for your page views. However, if we create a "joint network" type thing, perhaps a website that lists all of our channels (only ones who are members) as well as some articles, downloads, whatever else to keep people coming back for things other than JUST the TV. You could have google ads and banner ads that people payed us directly to have put on our site or things like google ads that we would host ads that were about our type of site/content. The members (broadcasters) would perhaps pay a monthly subcription fee which would be used to pay Google ad fees, server costs, and maybe pay someone a bit of money to maintain the site. The return for their subsription fee would be more clicks on their streams and websites. You couldnt just use a web ring but with careful planning and a good model for how you will run business you could potentially have a lot of broadcasters who use NSV joining. If it was a good URL, we got it added in the search engines with some good key words and started to gain some recognition I am sure a lot of people would be interested - even if they had to pay. It is not very easy these days to get page impressions for nothing. People wouldnt mind paying a small fee every month (in my opinion) if they could get a lot of visitors to their site. This would in turn make them money. Perhaps, we could have a video player that allowed people to choose the channel they wanted with advertising setup that paid to the broadcaster themselves and also lead the viewer/visitor to the broadcasters website. I think it is a great idea and I would join if it was setup correctly.

[Germ]

Wow, try using breaks in your paragraphs sometime

[darkstar2002c]

Sorry, I havent slept in quite awhile. Not that it was that long of a writing, usually I do - whatever.

[inthegray]

Nullsoft really can't promote most of you guys because some of the stuff people here aren't exactly broadcasting their stuff legally. That doesn't make the channels bad--it'd just be a big mess once you involve AOL looking over everything.

I'd be interested in hosting/featuring/helping out anyone who needs it. i've done stuff with Toqer before and that turned out pretty well.

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by darkstar2002c
A web ring isnt going to do much for your page views. However, if we create a "joint network" type thing, perhaps a website that lists all of our channels (only ones who are members) as well as some articles, downloads, whatever else to keep people coming back for things other than JUST the TV.

I skimmed the rest but I don't really care for paying money when it seems you're talking about a broadcasters union, which could best be done with a ... webring and main page in the webring. You know, the main 'base page' for the webring.

That would contain the articles on "how i figured out how to do x with y" or whatever.

[rockouthippie]

Darkstars idea about a cooperative content based web, I think had merit.

The page itself would be really cheap to run. We are all pay large bandwidth bills.

As far as illegal content, we would have to have a way to shield ourselves from each others liabilities in that regard.

[bingo]

You'll see darkstar's power on this issue...

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by bingo
You'll see darkstar's power on this issue...

what is this supposed to mean?

he'll have power to make websites that are not cross-browser-capable, such as darkstar tv.info, which appears incredibly wide because of this broken line of code:

code:
<embed type="application/x-nsv-vp3-mp3" width=4276 height=203 

codebase="http://www.nullsoft.com/nsv/embed/nsvplayx_vp6_aac.cab" 

location="http://66.36.242.154:8790"></embed></object>

note how he's made it really wide, instead he could choose some kind of thing which shows an image that it doesnt work in moz (maybe, maybe not, i dont know) and you need to use Intercrap Exploder to view it?

mehhhh

someone give me christophes phone number, so that i may call him and make him release the .xpi.

[Grump]

I think there is no solid answer to this problem.

Welcome to the internet where everyone wants money, and everyone wants to be noticed for their work. You're number 1,232,843,644 in line.

Most people have winamp because they needed something for mods and mp3s..... because they were too cheap to pay for music in the first place.... you've picked the wrong market.

I'm not paying the cable co. thanks to internet tv, so why would i start paying for internet tv? Might as well get cable, it looks better.

(The arguement of internet tv vs cable tv can be started elsewhere, long live freedom of speech though)

You guys PAY for bandwidth?
heh
hehehe
hhheehehehe (sorry)

get a job at your local isp
mine was nice enough to set up a 100mb line to my box in the colocation room

[darkstar2002c]

Originally posted by Grump
I'm not paying the cable co. thanks to internet tv, so why would i start paying for internet tv? Might as well get cable, it looks better.

We are talking about broadcasters paying a very small monthly fee to pay for joint server costs on a website that will bring visitors to their site. The viewers dont pay, unless one of the specific streams has a subscription system (such as saltwater chimp). This isnt a pay service for viewers, just broadcasters. The fee would be very low, especially with more broadcasters joining. Something under $5 dollars probably and decreasing as membership increases.

Please note however that this idea isnt anything anyone is seriously considering (I dont think), it was just an idea I gave in response to the question. However, I feel the idea is good and could end up bringing in good viewers, visitors, and revenue. No one has yet to take up the idea though and I am too busy with other projects to do so.

Some of us pay for bandwidth.
Most of us need high amounts of bandwidth for their streams and they need it to be reliable as possible. Most of us also work other jobs so getting a job at our local ISP isnt really an option, nor are many of them hiring even if we could just quit our current jobs or if we didnt have any. Say one of us actually did get a job at our local ISP... I highly doubt that ours would be as nice as yours (yours must not be a big corporate company, some smaller ISP - Comcast wouldnt do anything like this) and even if they were, it wouldnt be free - we would have to pay, which defeats the whole purpose. Paying for bandwidth really isnt that bad anymore if you research the company well enough. I wish I could get bandwidth as easy and as cheaply as you - you are a lucky man.

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by Grump
get a job at your local isp
mine was nice enough to set up a 100mb line to my box in the colocation room

i am not so dumb as to think that people would be willing to give up a better job to get a lower paying one to get better bandwidth.

and, before you state 'well if you've got a good paying job then whats the problem', well its not incredibly uncommon to have a family to feed. no, i do not have a family to feed, but then again, i do not have a better job.

also, most isps do NOT give you that kind of bandwidth, you say 'local' isp, what about podunk alabama where a local isp has maybe a t3 or whatever? You're incredibly small minded, sir.

[rockouthippie]

I use services that use OC3 connections. I like public domain programmimg. I also like things that work. Both of my "channels" use no cogent backbones.

It may be screwed up at YOUR end, but I am always sitting a couple of hops off a OC3.

Legal, moral and fast.

If I see more than 100ms ping from my nearest server..... I bug em.

[sankt]

podunk alabama

Things cant be that bad at McGill Toolen.

[Grump]

Dont get so touchy ppl...

Its not that small, 60,000 customers is a decent chunk.
But if you pay $400/month in bandwidth, maybe a paycut to get free bandwidth is worth it? (this is off topic)

So what you're saying, is you want the ppl who are paying for bandwidth, to pay more for a website, to get more exposure, to make the streams that much more packed, and create the need for that much more bandwidth.

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by Grump
Dont get so touchy ppl...

Its not that small, 60,000 customers is a decent chunk.
But if you pay $400/month in bandwidth, maybe a paycut to get free bandwidth is worth it? (this is off topic)

So what you're saying, is you want the ppl who are paying for bandwidth, to pay more for a website, to get more exposure, to make the streams that much more packed, and create the need for that much more bandwidth.

how does the salvation army work? many people contribute a small amount, and it adds up. if more people donated small amounts, it would add up. noones watching 24 hours a day, so if more donated, you could afford more bandwidth and more people could watch, and maybe those more people would donate.

too bad people often feel that they can take and take and not even show a little appreciation by giving back, which is why the hTtP was so nice, put up a google ad or some other ads (club977 did this even) and people will go "ah, i do not have to donate, i can click this ad and give them a quarter by doing it", and this really happened. it was easy for them to help, so they did. when it'd difficult, they don't.

just because you hate showing appreciation and prefer that the person do even harder work to please you is not a reason to tell people "oh, change your job to isp job for cheaper bandwidth, and have fun when you find out that many isps do not let random employees have access to the full line for trivial things like running internet tv streams", even public domain content would scare quite a few bosses who think that they will still get in trouble.


but, you are thick headed, and none of this will get through, so why do I bother.

[Grump]

Please, no insults, they go nowhere. Im going to stop posting an opinion you asked for if you keep insulting it.

I just think the ratio of users:donations with more exposure would not tip in your favour.

For the record, I dont take and take... I run TV too, just not to the internet tv listing.

My boss doesn't care for the same reasons all the other family guy and futurama streamers dont care. No laws state the provider has to release my information. He'd prefer I had knowledge in technology like this because it applies to my job in the end. (Not setting up a streaming television cast directly, but just the indirect knowledge gained)

I never said I was doing anything illegal in the first place, which brings me to my next point.
If you're going all out legit, google will probably let you keep their ads up. If the stream is indeed legit, the users will be more in it for the freedom of speech, not a free rip of the simpsons. These users will be the most likely to donate as well, and I think this would definately benefit your stream.

But if you're doing anything in that "grey area" we all dip in to, google will pull the ads in a second and you'll just be stuck with a networksolutions bill.

[Inedible Bulk]

what does netsol have to do with anything, and club977, who i mentioned, is fully legit, and a radio station. they however do not get much in donations it seems through their constant begging for money, and in the past used the hTtP trick (which you probably don't know about and are too lazy to search for) which would cause a window to popup on connect, displaying a page of the persons choice. this was easily exploited, and seriously, is covered elsewhere in these forums rather well. anyway, they had quite a few advertisements in this popup, all of them non-spyware, and google ads in there about 3 times even though google wants them there only once (random system, i guess they couldnt help it). this would help them out a little bit, but every little bit helps.

but, i still have not found out, what netsol has to do with anything. except that they charge exorbatant amounts for domain name registration.

also, fine, you have an opinion, and i respect that, no matter how imbalanced it is.

[Grump]

Someone has to pay hosting, domain registration fees, etc for this proposed site.

I know what the http trick is, but its fixed now and thats good, because spyware is bad, makes my job hell.

But as you said, even a legit stream is suffering because it cant get enough donations. If you cant afford the bandwidth bill, dont post publically in the first place and expect donations.

You give a child a balloon for free. He skips away happy. An hour later, you realize you cant afford to be giving away balloons, so you ask the child for money, any money. The child realizes he wont get anymore balloons from you if he doesn't give you money. The child also realizes there are many other clowns at the fair that will give him balloons for free. This way he can save his money for cotton candy.

[rockouthippie]

Once upon a time, in a town called Nullville, there was Balloon Dude. He gave the kids free balloons. He paid for the free balloons with ads on them. The kids liked the balloons, and didn't care because they were free and a lot of fun. Some nice people wanted bigger better balloons, so they helped Balloon Guy out with a few bucks.

Along came Evil Balloon Dude and made evil balloons. That wouldn't have been a big problem, except that some of the children were naughty and wanted to look at nudey pictures. The children knew that when they looked at free nudey pictures, they'd get evil balloons.

In the land of Null, lived the Great Null Fairy. He didn't like the evil balloons, but he did like looking at girls doing the nasty.

He decreed that balloons could no longer have ads on them, because that's how the balloons became evil. He couldn't figure out a way to test the balloons, and it was no skin off his nose, so he didn't even try, even though Balloon Dude was his friend.

Well Balloon Dude was still was trying to give away some free balloons. Not only couldn't he sell the ads on the balloons any more, no one would come to his shop, so he couldn't even sell the better balloons. He couldn't give away nearly as many balloons.

Balloon Dude asked some of the other guys who were also giving away balloons to see if there was some way to give away more balloons.

Some suggestions were made and maybe some progress to see if there was a way to give away more and better balloons.

But then there were also some suggestions, by Grumpy, the village idiot, who worked in the balloon factory, but wasn't smart enough to blow one up.

A tale of tragedy in the land of Null, Balloon Dude wasn't happy. The kids got a lot less balloons. The Null Fairy didn't care. Evil Balloon Dude went right on making evil balloons. Grumpy got fired for using his bosses balloon machine without permission.

The End

[Grump]

This thread wouldn't be nearly as good if everyone supported the idea.

Maybe you should start a new thread, where everyone supports it! You could plan it all out........ together..... make money... even prove me wrong!

Refer to my first post;
"Welcome to the internet where everyone wants money, and everyone wants to be noticed for their work. You're number 1,232,843,644 in line."

[Grump]

p.s. ads on tv blow, this is yet another reason i came to internet tv and cancelled cable

[desync]

Originally posted by rockouthippie
Everybody who's decent is FULL

Full of what?

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by desync
Full of what?

shutup, guy on oc-12s. you and your efnet leaf.

you are in a place where grump(y) has no idea exists, where he didn't know that much bandwidth existed, where the land flows with milk and honey and there is cheese everywhere and there are no cats in america

p.s. rockouthippie, good story, i like how you show that the legit (non-spyware) guys are losing and the illigit (spyware) guys took the YP down for a week by bypassing the hTtP ban with their special software which told the YP and all the banbots that it was http://, while it told normal users that it was hTtP to launch the popup. right-o.

[rockouthippie]

Grumpy-

I can't see how there can be any disagreement. I am finding you the only dissenter. Even Bulk isn't calling me an asshole. :-).

This isn't a matter of how to make a million bucks.

You broadcasters know that some revenue is a matter of survival. To give more service, to improve the art.

Improving that revenue, helps the people we serve. Even you Grumpy.

Yes ads, as shown by the networks for a third of the broadcast day suck. No one is suggesting that we adopt that model.

You won't have to look at any ads, but the video you'll see is your butt in the mirror and the audio you'll get comes from the same region.

I have had some email conversations with many of you broadcasters, the real ones. I have looked at your Alexa ratings and know everyone has taken a giant beating.

Your position Grumpy is that we shouldn't try to help our stations.

Who, except the village idiot in a fairy tale would suggest that?.

Merry Christmas and shut up.

[Inedible Bulk]

p.s. hbo has access to tv equipment and instead of showing ads has a (small) monthly fee.

many people consider this worth it.

i just didn't think about adding this in earlier.

[B0b]

Originally posted by Grump
Most people have winamp because they needed something for mods and mp3s..... because they were too cheap to pay for music in the first place....

We all know (even the RIAA is starting to get it) that many people who download music DO buy music. The same applies to Nullsoft Internet TV. I think SaltWaterChimp, SaltWaterPimp, everyshowsucks.com, and the adult streams do manage to generate revenue to keep streaming.

[rockouthippie]

OOOOOHHHH, like I'll go out and pay money for the latest Avril Lavigne album.

BARF!

[rockouthippie]

Could we GET BACK TO THE THREAD!!!!!!!

Like keeping our stations alive.

[toqer]

If you use phpnuke, try the donation module I got on my site. It doesn't click in peoples heads that they should donate until they see exactly who has sent in money.

[sankt]

Thats a great idea Rob.

Linking paypal with a beer machine is another great idea - instant gratification from the viewing audience to the participants. Would be interesting to see the light on the beer machine spin like a top on a good video night.


The next question would be - how to actually get people to go to the stations website.

A) On launch promos for viewers to visit the stations website ?

B) Scrolling text at the bottom of the video ?

C) Continous promos throughout stream for viewers to visit the stations website ?

I personally think a combination of A and B would be a good idea.


To effectively use scrolling text, some one needs to dream up a better alpha numeric character generator for broadcasters.

It would be nice to have access to multiple font styles, font sizes, font colors - etc. Also the ability to use preformated text scripts for full automation - Load and Go.

[Inedible Bulk]

sankt wants to download some vj software, it seems

[sankt]

This is what I am making reference to.

Character generator and video titling systems for broadcast media.

www.caymangraphics.com/Welcome.html

[rockouthippie]

If you've ever played with banner click advertising, you know that 1-2% of people will click on an ad that see it. The number goes RAPIDLY down from text insertion and in stream ads.

I like to show whole programs. I don't want to bug people every 5 minutes. That would suck.

I don't think it's that people won't donate. I think they just never look at the web to see to donate.

That's why, if we can get them in the front door, our odds of getting them to do something, click an ad, donate, write a post in the forum etc..... increases.

It's not apparent to me that the YP listing does anything to that end.

[rockouthippie]

If there is interest in a promotional site. I would host it for free. I have a couple of domains that are gathering dust too. Among them bakerstreettv.com, zazbot.com and a couple of others.

So, let me know if there is interest. To begin I would set up a forum to talk and gather momentum.

[Inedible Bulk]

i like echo34.com but thats the yp, it may become as well the portal, we'd have to ask raveguything and see if hes up