Online Services Poll Part Deux

[Tag]

So, we listened to your 'nicely worded requests' and have continually updated Shoutcast Radio and TV listings since launch of 5.2.

It's time now to get your feeling on the new results.

If you havent taken a look in a week, then you shouldn't vote.

Thanks

[martin.deimos]

Hey, great job!
But can you add 'Gothic' to quick genre?

[Tag]

sure

[DJ Egg]

Hmm, only 29 results for Gothic... but 57 for Goth
and 70 for Industrial ;-)


[Edit]

mmm, but what about Chill/Chillout and Ambient (102) too? ;-)

[martin.deimos]

use goth for the search and Gothic for the dropdown item!
Industrial Quickgenre would be cool aswell!

[ujay]

Great job, I'm loving it.

If you're still taking requests ...

Could we have non-case sensitive listings, or an option. I find the current method confusing unless you know the precise spelling for something.

Can't remember if I've mentioned this already, but the Genre drop down is not being initiallising properly(doesn't check what's being displayed ?).

UJ

[tox]

I still hate it cuz you still can't select several online item (shoutcast radio for examples) with shift+left_click and add them to playlist

Everyone can see that guys from Winamp made some efforts with this *****ing online services browser but there is more to do. (this new Online services is REALLY more ressources consuming than the one before)

keep it up !

[ozzymanborn]

Still Late Responding. Still Resource Eater. Bandwith Eater. Not All Aol Radios. Still Bookmark Issues (I want only bookmark sometimes not enqueue too). Not Search In Winamp Music/Video. Only Genre Selection Not Artist. And Also Still Not Have Online Library's Down Buttons. And Still Give Script Errors. And This Errors Fixing Very Late. (Winamp Music Page Error Fixed After Almost 2 Week. And This Error Was Serverside Not In Client) (Last Error In XM Big Tracks)
Yes It's Better Than First Day of 5.2. But It Is Still Torture for slow internet connections like mine (And I have 256kbps ADSL.) (I Can't Think About Modem Users Feeling). And I Think Serverside Pressure Now Much Than 13000 cached Winamp 5.13ML. I tried "a" search and waited nearly 15 Minute after than it give 759 results (In Second Search): First Search takes 10 second and no result answer. CPU Usage Was 100%. It Buffered 16kbps station in this search proccess (When Only Working Internet Program Winamp).

[DJ Egg]

@ozzymanborn

The 'Bookmark' action won't work until 5.21
(ie. it works fine for me) :-p
And it won't also enqueue if you select 'bookmark' in 5.21

There's no AOL Radio in the old Online Media thing either, only XM Radio.

No idea what you meant by "Only Genre Selection Not Artist".

Alas, there's not much we can do about slow internet connections though.
You're complaining about Winamp Music Videos not having a search function (that's because they're not even indexed yet) but nearly all the video streams are 700kbps and you've only got a 250k connection, heh. Dialup modem users won't be able to stream any of the Winamp/AOL Videos or Shoutcast TV streams anyway, so they're limited to XM Radio or Shoutcast Radio (and setting the bandwidth filter to 'modem' in the config) only.

5.21 also includes http compression support,
which will speed up the 'loading' process quite a bit more.

And there's no script errors here, none whatsoever.
Alas, that'll be something to do with your security settings somewhere (eg. maybe you're using some external script blocking app, like Norton, but it isn't configured to allow scripts from winamp.com, or your Internet Zone level is set to High, etc etc, been thru all this before, blah blah). Either that, or you just happened to be browsing whilst some serverside updates were going on, heh.


@ tox

Hmmm, multi-select is listed in the update post, and will hopefully be implemented at some point in the not too distant future.

That only really leaves Search As You Type missing from the old Online Media, and that's listed in the update post too, along with a few other entries at the bottom which are still not implemented. But that's because there's only one person working on it (Hi Tag) and we all think he's done a truly excellent job, considering the timescale factor too.


@ the 4 other incognito people who voted 'hate it'
and your reasons are...?


In general, keep all criticisms/requests/etc coming,
because nothing is set in stone, and almost anything is possible
(well, except for returning to the old/flawed online media thing, heh).

[Tag]

You searched for "a" and are complaining? Wow.

[Axellink]

ok, so far so good. Just the config. Any chance of winamp remembering the coloumn resizing tab settings? everytime i close winamp, i have to re-adjust the tabs in the shoutcast table. This will be really nice, I hate having to scroll left all them time to see Listeners and Type columns. Thanks

[Tag]

Columns ARE saved, what are you talking about?

[ujay]

The apparent column sizing moves around for me as well.

The column width seems to be set by the display length of the longest name in the list. The number of characters to be dispalyed is set by the resizing tabs, but the actual screen space is determined by the length of the longest name.

For example a name that is mainly uppercase will have a longer display length than one that is mainly lowercase.

In other words it depends on what you have in the list, as well as what you have the column size set to.

UJ

[NetSkipper]

I don't wanna vote, but I'll just say that I dislike very much the new Online Services (I don't like to use the "hate" word because you guys @ Winamp, are doing amazing work all the time). I have a very slow and old computerm and the new "servicves: consuming more resources. I preferred the old one (before 5.2 versions).
Pleeeease do something. Maybe implement the new and the old versions together, and let the users choose by themselves how to work? (like the playlist's "old school" buttons behavior, which I find more comfortable).
Thanks.

[MasterViVi]

Stupid request really: is it possible to make the "Go" buttons 'n stuff look like native themed buttons?

[cryptomail]

Just to chime in, and have it written down formally, and I know you all have been working on this dilligently....

Selection memes should match that of windows explorer.
That is, there should be the same click modifiers for ctrl, shift, etc, having the same anchoring and grouping results.

That's all, just to write it down
Thanks for your continued development effort. It's coming along nicely.
--josh

[dwacc]

The new browser looks good, but I want to make a point I made in the tech-support forum earlier.

The genre selection menu has been removed from the SC-TV browser, because there're so few stations and only 1 or 2 appear under its own genre.

The negative side-effect to doing that is that smaller, more obscure SC-TV stations get a little less advertisement. With the old system; the easiest way to navigate the "TV guide" was to open the drop-down menu and go to what you're looking for, but in doing so you were "forced" to also look at categories you weren't looking for. I'm pretty sure many viewers discovered new stations they hadn't heard of this way.

With the new system, the closest you get to the same effect is to scroll down the initial list of stations, but I think most people just use the search box to find what they want right away.

To put it briefly, my "complaint" with the new system is that I no longer find things I'm not looking for. I think the drop-down menu containing keywords from DNAS headers.txt files, should be returned.

(I know, if it's not one thing, it's the other. )

[ujay]

The problem with the Genre dropdown and the scrollwheel I mentioned earlier seems to have got worse, it's crashing now instead of showing 'no stations loaded'.

Here's a selection :

AppName: winamp.exe | AppVer: 5.2.1.496 | ModName: ml_online.dll
| ModVer: 0.0.0.0 | Offset: 00005d96

AppName: winamp.exe | AppVer: 5.2.1.496 | ModName: jnetlib.w5s
| ModVer: 0.0.0.0 | Offset: 00002838

AppName: winamp.exe | AppVer: 5.2.1.496 | ModName: ml_online.dll
| ModVer: 0.0.0.0 | Offset: 00001b93

AppName: winamp.exe | AppVer: 5.2.1.496 | ModName: ntdll.dll
| ModVer: 5.1.2600.2180 | Offset: 00010f29

AppName: winamp.exe | AppVer: 5.2.1.496 | ModName: ml_online.dll
| ModVer: 0.0.0.0 | Offset: 00008186

UJ

[Energie]

This poll is not fair, unbelievable ! . it misses the option loved it before, hate it now !

[tbolick]

Just upgraded to 5.21

I thought you were removing the dependency on the IE Active-X control. I currently have IE ask before it runs any Active-X control, so everytime I start Winamp, it asks me several times if I want to allow the Active X control to run.

I just wish developers would stop acting like IE was part of the operating system. It's not like we security minded individuals are hacking our own OS. We just chose a different browser.

To be fair, I like the new quick genres. I hated having to navigate back to my favorites every time. It looks like it also might save my place every time, and I know I'll like that.

I would still like to see a genre column. Not all stations that have '80s in the name are 80's stations. Some are "60's, 70's and 80's", and some are "80's and 90's", etc. I used the genre column to differentiate. Besides, the Now Playing column is usually wrong anyway, so it is not much help.

[Squashed]

I voted "Hated it before, But love it now, good job!" and I mean it. Kudos!

[billyvnilly]

Originally posted by Energie
This poll is not fair, unbelievable ! . it misses the option loved it before, hate it now !

the poll is in regards to the first version of the updated shoutcast...compared to the newly updated version of shoutcast. the OLD version isnt being considered because its gone.


[edit]some genres are going onto a second line and its makes it look bad. it is not basing the max width of the column on the longest title... or it needs to at least cut it off with an '...'

[NetSkipper]

dwacc:
To put it briefly, my "complaint" with the new system is that I no longer find things I'm not looking for. I think the drop-down menu containing keywords from DNAS headers.txt files, should be returned.

Yes, yes. Hear the people's voice.
It its my thoughts exactly. I'm not listening to regular radio stations, I'm just wandering.. and listening to whatever it comes handy in specific genre.
Old school

P.S. I'm still using 5.13

[DJ Egg]

If you're using 5.13 then you're limited to 1000 stations max (default is 500).
There's plenty more to find when you've got 13000 to choose from,
and just like anything new, you have to learn how to use it first ;-)

[timelordjimmy]

Why don't all the AOL/XM stations show up in my online services browser? I listen to "Fred" all the time, now it doesnt show up under the AOL tab. I can spoof it and bring up the stream by pulling the link out of my recent items, but no menu item - even after the upgrade to 5.21. Wha' happened?!?

[CraigF]

What you see is everything on offer.

The old AOL streams were replaced with XM a few months ago. Thats not to say that bookmarks to the old content dont work, they just wont work indefinately. (probably the machines doing the serving are still up and running).

[Hot Tub Man #1]

I'm currently using 5.21, and I think the Shoutcast TV and Radio listings are much improved from 5.2, and I'm starting to prefer it more than the pre-5.2 version. The whole package would be perfect if it weren't for the lackluster Winamp music browser. I personally liked to search for recently added media with the pre-5.2 browser, and this new iteration does not allow me to do so.

I'll try and stick with the new browser and see if it'll grow on me some more, but not being able to view the new media in the winamp music section may just drive me back to installing the old 5.13 media library.

(On another note, I'm new to the board. Hi.)

[CraigF]

Well, technically, the online services have been updated all the time. Thats the beauty, its all server side so a new version of winamp isnt required. Its definately come a long way, and I can use it as i did before without issue, except for what you raise. I too used to just browse by date added so I could see what was new, and I did raise this quite a while ago, but forgot about it since.

Prehaps it'll be added soon.

[ctkatz8086]

i'm in the camp that still hates it, but for now different reasons. i hated the interface (still do) and went back to 5.13 when for some reason the shoutwire feature didn't come up after i replaced the media library with the 5.13 version. i installed this latest version on my parent's computer.

i hate it now because i look for specific type of streams, audio book and simulcast broadcast radio streams. it is very difficult to find them in the media library, mainly because those stations listed as playing these things don't. a search of shoutcast.com finds these things easier.

one of those stations is one i listen to quite often is starbase 479. it is not listed.

at all.

after being one of the 1000 stations that were listed before.

i have even checked the three categories it lists itself under. it's not under "mixed", it's not under "talk", it's not under "alternative". as of this posting, it's playing an audio recording of tolkein's hobbit. i tried searching for "hobbit" with no dice.

then i tried the stream for espn 950 out of indianapolis. and once again i had the same result. it is not listed under "sports". and right now another station is simulcasting it. that station is listed under "live" and "sports". and it isn't there either. a straight-up search for "espn 950" produces nothing. and this was also another one of the 1000 that came up before.

funnily enough, both stations come up on shoutcast.com.

if you will let me vent a little bit, if i wanted to get a listing of every station registered at shoutcast.com, i would visit the webpage instead of opening winamp. but seeing as how you implemented it in the media library interface, and seeing as how i'm being told by the forum "bigwigs" if you will that this is better than it was before (i don't buy it btw), it would be appreciative if all of those stations came in.
/end rant

[CraigF]

dont really know what to say.

[DJ Egg]

At a guess, you set the bandwidth filter in Config to broadband
and therefore the 24k streams don't even show up when you search for them :/

[tbolick]

So is NO ONE going to discuss the IE Active-X requirement? Is that ever going away?

If I had wanted to use IE to listen to streams, I would open IE, not WinAmp (or should it be Win-IE-Amp?) I'm all for thin client, browser based software, but this IE/Active-X thing is really lame...

[CraigF]

I already discussed it:

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....hreadid=239824

[amano]

If I got it right, removing the activeX dependency is still on the TODO list posted by DJ Egg. It is one of 2 entries that are left being marked to require a winamp update clientside.

[NetSkipper]

Originally posted by DJ Egg
If you're using 5.13 then you're limited to 1000 stations max (default is 500).
There's plenty more to find when you've got 13000 to choose from,
and just like anything new, you have to learn how to use it first ;-)

It's so unfaaaaair..

For me it's not a problem to learn something new, but it's the matter of comfort.. I liked the old online services, and the wandering between the station, just to find something new. I've also have an old computer, so my memory resources are limited. The new version is a resources monster, and just not comfortable. Where is the column resize??? I need to know what I'm looking for, and I don't want it, I wanna "fall" at random radio station, and enjoy it..

[DJ Egg]

Column resize is there. Do you not see it or something?

[edit] sure you don't. that's 'cos you're still using 5.13 :/ [/edit]

If you just select "Top 500" from the Genre Selection bar and then checkmark "remember last view" in the Config (you do see the Config button, yes?), then this emulates the exact same default 'on load' behaviour as the old Online Media Shoutcast listing. So you tell us how it differs so drastically? (other than Search As You Type still not being implemented).

And just how old is your computer? Older than a p3 450 MHz w/ 128mb ram? Because that's what my old 2nd/backup pc is, and there's no performance issues there whatsoever (yeah, for sure, my main pc is an Athlon XP 2400+ w/ 1GB ram, heh).
If your comp is slower than 450MHz (ie. 1999 model or older), then sorry, but why should any software developer be obligated to support such old and outdated hardware anymore?

@amano
Yes, it's still on the ToDo list, and will certainly require a clientside update.
It's no quick & easy task to remove the microsoft.xmldom activex dependency, and if/when it does happen, it might also add a fair few kb to the distribution.
Besides all that, ActiveX is only dangerous when abused, eg. when a user on an unpatched/unprotected/vulnerable system visits a site which abuses it. Anything beyond that is classed as tinfoil hat syndrome.

Next up serverside is Shift+Click for multi-selection (as explained already, like the Del key, the Ctrl key is also being eaten by the ml, so until the devs work out why, it's gonna have to be Shift+click for now)... coming some time in the next few days.

[ctkatz8086]

respectfully retracted then.

however it does bring up a new question. i'm curious, why doesn't the broadband selection list all the stations then, because that was what i had my filter set to. because the bandwidth pipe is so large, wouldn't it be more reasonable for those higher bandwidth people to get all those streams?

[DJ Egg]

That's how it worked in the old Online Media listings.
You selected modem, you'd only get streams up to 56k listed.
You selected broadband, you'd only get streams higher than 64k listed.

In the new Online Services, you have the added option of specifying a custom minimum and maximum setting, eg. I've decided on 24 min and 320 max.
The default setting is 1 to 320 (ie. the equivalent of "all").

[Squashed]

As for column resizing, is it supposed to work like I encounter it?
I place the cursor on a separator and drag. Mysterious numbers with no visible sense appear.
When I drop the separator the column seems to have broadened but only a little (almost not noticeable). I have to repeat that step several times to gain a fair amount of column width. Am I doing something wrong?

[ujay]

The online media columns are not a fixed width. What you are setting with the 'mysterious numbers' is the max number of characters to be displayed.

The width of the column is then calculated from the amount of room needed to display the longest string. For example, both the following lines have 12 characters, but the length varies depending on the content :

MMMMMMMMMMMM
llllllllllll

This is also why you will see lines truncated when there is more than enough room to display the whole string.

UJ