Windows Vista "infected" with DRM intergration

[mistermeow]

It seems DRM will be integrated into Windows Vista, which could potentially degrade audio and video not played back on "proper" equipment.

This all started with Internet Explorer being integrated into Windows. It seems it is just going to get worse and worse.

The more heavy handed Microsoft gets, the harder hackers will work to defeat these measures. You can read the article on this linked below.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/6286245.stm

[zootm]

Interestingly, this is the only way that this technology can be legally integrated into an operating system. Any operating system which wants to play this sort of protected content will need to either bypass the DRM (which is, in the US, illegal) or downgrade the content.

[Atmo]

There are ways to get around vista's DRM.

Google "vista driver signing bypass".

[Smeggle]

well that fix didn't take long did it...

when was vista officially released? ah yesterday - jayz 24hrs longer than I thought....

[Omega X]

I also read that a researcher defeated Vista's DRM already.
http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?si...11201&from=rss

[zootm]

That's basically the same thing Atmo was referring to. It's not something that can be implemented perfectly anyway

[Omega X]

Originally posted by zootm
That's basically the same thing Atmo was referring to. It's not something that can be implemented perfectly anyway

It probably could...but knowing Mdollar...

[k_rock923]

No, it's really not something that can be done perfectly. The problem will always be that to play it at all, you need the key.

[Omega X]

That's why the word "probably" was used. It wasn't like I was claiming that it could be done 100% and nothing could refute that. After all it is only 2007.

Maybe I need to stop being middle of the road a lot and just start claiming wild things as the truth all the time.

[zootm]

Originally posted by Omega X
It probably could...but knowing Mdollar...

Nah, I doubt it. Although I suppose using TPM modules something could be done, but I don't think it would be compatible with the way that HDCP works (although I really don't know that much about it). I'm surprised they let computers run it at all.

And stop the "M-dollar" nonsense, Ars Technica only get away with it because they're good at writing

[Omega X]

Originally posted by zootm


And stop the "M-dollar" nonsense, Ars Technica only get away with it because they're good at writing

[k_rock923]

You were wrong. The rolleyes doesn't change that. Get over it. Make your point with an argument, not by jumping on the anti Microsoft bandwagon.

[Omega X]

Originally posted by k_rock923
You were wrong. The rolleyes doesn't change that. Get over it. Make your point with an argument, not by jumping on the anti Microsoft bandwagon.

Doesn't change what? That I can't use the term "M-dollar"?

What am I supposed to be pointing out with an argument?


Oh wait, wait! Here you go!

"I can use the term where I want, when I want."

Was that argumentative for you? Or should I write a 3 paragraph post of fluff slowly pointing out what I just put into one sentence?

And stop making assumptions, I don't give a damn about the anti Microsoft bandwagon.

[zootm]

It just makes you sound like a child. Like if I was to start calling you "Dumbega X". Your posts are pretty cogent, you don't need to mess them up with meaningless, puerile name-calling.

[fc*uk]

sometimes it is just fun to do.

The name calling that is.

[zootm]

In a purportedly-serious discussion it kinda undermines your position, though.

[mikm]

Of course Microsoft wants to make as much money as possible. That's generally what companies do. Apple wants to make money. Red Hat wants to make money. Google wants to make money.

Brains or gtfo.

[Omega X]

Originally posted by zootm
In a purportedly-serious discussion it kinda undermines your position, though.

I didn't think that this was such serious discussion to some. DRM has been discussed to death. A post about it being in Vista sure isn't anything new.

Surely poking fun at the M$ abbreviation shouldn't be so offensive. But I guess something always offends someone somewhere.

[zootm]

I'm just tired of it. It's not offensive, it's pithy and annoying.

[rockouthippie]

Originally posted by zootm
I'm just tired of it. It's not offensive, it's pithy and annoying.

You always seem like the Microsoft poster boy, so why does this not surprise me?.

[shakey_snake]

zootm's a poster boy for just about anything whenever people are stupidly negative or unnecessarily sloppy with their language. It's a characteristic I like about him.

[rockouthippie]

He always leaves me wondering if Bill Gates is his cousin or something.

[shakey_snake]

You always make me wonder if you are your own cousin.

[xzxzzx]

Originally posted by shakey_snake
zootm's a poster boy for just about anything whenever people are stupidly negative or unnecessarily sloppy with their language. It's a characteristic I like about him.

Likewise. Yay zootm!

Originally posted by shakey_snake
You always make me wonder if you are your own cousin.

Now, now, weren't we just talking about not being juvenile?

...

*snicker*

[skryingbreath]

Originally posted by shakey_snake
You always make me wonder if you are your own cousin.

Holy fuck, I lol'd.

[mikm]

Originally posted by shakey_snake
zootm's a poster boy for just about anything whenever people are stupidly negative or unnecessarily sloppy with their language. It's a characteristic I like about him.

qft

[zootm]

Originally posted by rockouthippie
You always seem like the Microsoft poster boy, so why does this not surprise me?.

The only reason I have Windows installed on one of my three machines is because you can't compile .NET Compact Framework apps on Linux. Fact.

I've got no problem with people criticising Windows. I do have a problem with people criticising Windows for no good reason; if I don't correct you, someone with more authority (i.e. anyone else) will.

Originally posted by shakey_snake
zootm's a poster boy for just about anything whenever people are stupidly negative or unnecessarily sloppy with their language. It's a characteristic I like about him.

Err, yay? Thank you anyway. Considering how I actually speak that's probably a bad thing, but I think you know what I mean with people.

[shakey_snake]

Fortunately, due to the nature of the internet, none of us have to interpret that Scots muck you consider speaking.

[xzxzzx]

Basically what zootm said (and the technical people here already knew), but much, much longer.

[zootm]

Originally posted by shakey_snake
Fortunately, due to the nature of the internet, none of us have to interpret that Scots muck you consider speaking.

Gaun naw speek shite 'boot ma neeburs, eh?

Originally posted by xzxzzx
Basically what zootm said (and the technical people here already knew), but much, much longer.

The obvious response to this is "but can't the system be broken?". Obvious answer to that is "yes", but in the US there's laws against distributing workaround methods, so unless you're coding the system all on your own without even information on how, you're breaking the law. Hurrah.

[xzxzzx]

Originally posted by zootm
The obvious response to this is "but can't the system be broken?".

Yes, mostly because the designers were not very, erm, competent. A well-designed crypto scheme with the keys stored in attack-resilient hardware would be very, very hard to break. Fortunately, it seems to take about four generations for even a company like Microsoft to get it right. So it's all good.

[zootm]

To be fair, the breaks so far are (for Vista) pretty much reliant on the fact that "it's software", and (for other systems) reliant on other random flaws. Fun fun fun.

[rockouthippie]

I dunno whether Vista can be broken or not. Probably, given MS track record.

I installed Vista on a box last night. It appears to be pretty much same-old except for some graphics widgets.

I think if you are going to discuss this, you have to understand what Vista is.

Vista is XP modified to provide driver support for DRM devices. This is it's main claim to fame. There are some cosmetic differences, but with all the fanfare, it's still just windows.

So, the operating system we waited 6 years for was only designed to accomodate DRM hardware no one (except the $$AA's) wanted.

If you were thinking about buying this for an existing computer, I'd say why?.

If you get this loaded in a new computer, I'd say why not?.

Vista doesn't hurt anything. Vista also doesn't help anything, unless you wanted to use DRM devices we don't have yet.

Regardless, windows remains the only viable consumer operating system. How it got that way is pretty cheesy, but those are the facts.

[mistermeow]

Well the only reason I use windows is because... GSOS won't run on my machine

[zootm]

See, you say this:

Originally posted by rockouthippie
I think if you are going to discuss this, you have to understand what Vista is.

Then you say this:

Originally posted by rockouthippie
Vista is XP modified to provide driver support for DRM devices. This is it's main claim to fame. There are some cosmetic differences, but with all the fanfare, it's still just windows.

...which is pretty inaccurate. But don't worry, I don't expect you to know.

I'd agree it's not really worth getting for an old machine, though, better off just getting it with a newer one. It is a significant upgrade though.

[rockouthippie]

Originally posted by zootm
It is a significant upgrade though.

Where?. It's a patchwork of trivial, useless updates as far as I can see + DRM.

Vista= XP + eye candy + DRM

I see nothing that makes computing any better in any real way. There is no miracle that makes this a "must have". That is unless you want to run DRMed hardware, which we don't have yet.

Like I said, it's the only reason to have Vista.

Find me a reason to tell current XP customers to upgrade existing machines to Vista. I'd like to sell it.

But there is no reason, and believe me I wish there was. I like money, I just won't create busy work to get paid.

Show me how Vista gets the job done better and I'm all ears.

You can't, because it's just windows... again....

[skryingbreath]

<Blind assumption>
<Denouncing of assumption>
<Obtusely blind assumption>

[zootm]

You raise an interesting point; most of the changes are architectural, so will the non-computing person notice the changes other than the "prettiness" aspect? Probably not; they do make the system better though, regardless of whether one can see them.

As for the DRM thing, if you don't buy the hardware it has 0% effect on you. It's being blown waaay out of proportion.

[Atmo]

There seems to be a bit of confusion about the vista DRM, so i'd recommend listening to TWiT's security now podcasts. Episode 73 covers the current types of DRM (in general, not just in vista), in episode 74 there's an interview with Peter Gutmann (who wrote the white paper on the cost of vista content protection), they continue in episode 75, and in episode 77 they discuss microsoft's response.

That's about 4 solid hours of listening material, but i think it's worthwhile if you're interested in the subject.

[rockouthippie]

Originally posted by zootm
As for the DRM thing, if you don't buy the hardware it has 0% effect on you. It's being blown waaay out of proportion.

I think what is being blown out of proportion is the benefit of this OS. It's only true benefit is the DRM integration.

6 years and billions. What did Microsoft come up with?.

More of our money.