OpenAL Support

[vxpulse]

Is there a way to make an output for winamp that uses OpenAL instead of Directsound or wav? I'm using vista/x-fi card and I'd like to unload the processes back onto my soundcard. So can it be done?

[Rocker]

not at the moment

its on the wishlist

[Omega X]

Heh, if they want to keep calling it Winamp it will have to. Otherwise it would just be called Winamp Xp.

[Sawg]

That's the most retarded thing I have ever heard.

[DrO]

agreed. i want a refund for the damage that has caused me by reading it

-daz

[will]

Actually, I am of the opinion that an out_openal would be very cool. If it supported 24bit (and I'm not sure that it does).

But also I believe it would be quite useless as out_ds is very good already.

[Omega X]

Originally posted by DrO
agreed. i want a refund for the damage that has caused me by reading it

-daz

What refund? You didn't pay a dime. I feel cheated now.

[STanger]

Well Windows Vista doesn't support hardware-accelerated DirectSound output so OpenAL would be the next best option as that output is not affected, but for 2000/XP anyways, ds_out is fine for me.

Vista uses XACT it's on the ms technet forums.

[korskarn]

For those with a SB-XFi card, there is a way. Creative Labs have ALchemy which has a dsound.dll replacement that emulates directsound over OpenAL. Winamp is not officially supported so it wont be listed int eh GUI, but the dsound.dll file found int he ALChemy folder can be copy-pasted in the winamp folder and it works, I am using it as I write this.

I don't know if ALchemy can work with a soundcard other than a SB-XFi

[STanger]

thx I'll have to check it out

[moozaad]

Vista uses XACT it's on the ms technet forums.

XACT is also unaccelerated. OpenAL is currently the only hardware supported sound API for Vista, and because it is an open standard it's not only Creative that support it.

[STanger]

I don't know what the deal is with hardware audio acceleration other then the fact that creative pimps the everloving hell out of it to promote their own products.

XACT is more efficient on a transactional basis then directsound (i read that in the technet forums) but in the end I do think OpenAL is a more appealing option at this point.

Yeah of course hardware audio accleration helps in games that support it but other then that I don't think it's really needed all that much. Could it help in Winamp maybe but we'll have to wait and see if the devs create one in the 1st place.With all this said, I'd still like to see a OpenAL output plugin at some point.

@korskarn the only sound cards that will work with Alchemy are the X-Fi.

just my 0.2

[CiroConsentino]

I would like to see a OpenAL output plugin as well. I hate to see Winamp 5.51 using the CPU instead of my SB Audigy 2 ZS card.
For programmers, it would not be that hard to create this plugin.
Of course that this plugin would be for Vista OS.

10x for listening.

[Rocker]

winamp uses 0%-1% of my cpu when playing an mp3 anyway on vista(classic skin to remove skin overheads)this is the same as it was in XP with hardware acceleration. so whats the point in wasting time on this when video support in aero could be fixed(which is much more annoying)

i'm using an realtek ac97 codec at the moment

[cppman]

Originally posted by CiroConsentino
I would like to see a OpenAL output plugin as well. I hate to see Winamp 5.51 using the CPU instead of my SB Audigy 2 ZS card.
For programmers, it would not be that hard to create this plugin.
Of course that this plugin would be for Vista OS.

10x for listening.

For those people on here that code, doesn't it piss you off when someone who doesn't know anything about programming or the problem they want you to solve tells you how "easy" it would be to do something? Anytime I hear that it just makes me want to stab someone in the face.

[CiroConsentino]

well, I am a programmer. Delphi, PHP, Ajax, JavaScript, Cobol, Clipper, MySQL.
I just don't know how to code this plug-in and don't know shit about C language.

[cppman]

Right, so you know nothing about the problem or the solution. The fact that your a programmer makes your attitude even worse. Generally, when someone tells me something will be "easy" is when they want to talk me into writing something they want, but don't have the authority to make me write.

[CiroConsentino]

I'm not forcing anyone here. OpenAL is an open source library and well documented. I really miss hardware acceleration in Vista. I didn't buy a dedicated sound card to use the CPU when playing music or games.

Bedies, other users already asked for a OpenAL plugin and they got the exact same reply...

[RejZoR]

Who gives a damn whos programmer and whos not?
I'm not a programmer but my ideas and recommendations have been implimented into several highly respected programs.
Just like most of program developement teams can work just fine even though each team member only knows his stuff.
And if some GUI guru thats all into making icons and graphics but doesn't know how to code in C# gives some good idea, it's up to programmers to make that happen. Being ignorant won't solve anything. Ever. OpenAL support is imo an obvious choice. It's not about speed and resources used for playback but the way how it's done. Makes you wonder why ppl even bother with ASIO and kernel streaming if emulated dsound is so damn good...

[Hanschke]

fully agreement i want the openal support for my x-fi too under x64 vista

[Benski]

I've been putting off doing an OpenAL output plugin because
1) it doesn't support 24bit output.
2) Multi-channel playback is not supported.
3) I couldn't decide if it would be better to use the lower-level WASAPI audio sdk.

[RejZoR]

OpenAL not capable of multi-channel playback? How the hell can then games reproduce full 5.1 (or 7.1) surround through OpenAL ?

[ExitDust]

Thanks for the reply on this topic, Benski. I've been browsing now for a few weeks about the lack of 5.1 sound when playing mp3's in Windows Vista when you're using a Creative X-FI card.

Now, i know its not really a problem the winamp devs should be responsible to fix, but as far as i see it, creative kicked the ball back into your laps. They're saying that OpenAL is the only way, next to ASIO, to directly access the hardware, circumventing the terrible windows vista directsound emulation (which consequently poops up the way surround sound is handled)

To help us all clear some stuff up:

1) it doesn't support 24bit output.

To be completely honest, i'd rather have to be able to use ALL my speakers and then lack 24bit output. For me, that would be acceptable. Are you mentioning this because no 24 bits would decrease the normal output as well? IE. if we'd use 16 bits, we would get a lower bitrate because of the lack of 24 bits support?

2) Multi-channel playback is not supported.

Last thing i've read on the OpenAL website SDK parts, it is not the plugin that should deliver the stream as a multi-channel, but the native openal X-FI driver should take care of it. However, i couldnt see in the SDK explanation how that stream should be transmitted to the driver in the first place. Also, a snippet from the openal site:

The Summer 2007 OpenAL SDK is now available. The SDK includes the X-RAM Extension, the Effect Extension (EFX), Multi-Channel Buffer playback extension, and a new Device Enumeration extension that allows AL to be rendered on any installed soundcard / audio end-point.

3) I couldn't decide if it would be better to use the lower-level WASAPI audio sdk.
Wouldnt a lower level api just put us back in the same place that we are now? If i have to believe the chart on the creative site, it seems that, apart from openal and asio, any other wasapi would end up in the mixer APO, who would just bug us back to 2.0, because of driver problems.
Windows Vista audio architecture by Creative img


I'm not a coder or anything, i'm just trying to keep the conversation going with valid facts, so all you people that wanna debate my actions, please PM me and dont mess up the topic for the people that really DO want answers.

EDIT: removed the IMG tags to stop messing up the forum borders.

[ExitDust]

*bump*

please give feedback

[Rocker]

multichannel and 24bit is so overrated.

listening to mp3 in emulated 5.1 sounds like shit its not clear at all.

if cd's were meant to be listened to in 5.1 they would have made them 5.1 in the first place.

if you are actually listening to multichannel audio files then it should still work.

why can't alchemy be used for winamp? why doesn't creative support useful multimedia apps instead of just games?

[Omega X]

Because Creative sucks. They can barely even do drivers.

Wouldn't it be better to adjust the DirectSound plugin to do Xaudio2 instead since that is supposed to be the direct replacement of that system?

[gameschild]

I'm not sure if anyone else has found one yet but I started dev work on an Open AL Output Plugin in Jan but only got round to actually doing the guts.

I've had some success but there's still quite a bit of work to do.

Update: The SDK I'm working with has no 24-bit support but does support multi-channel (5.1, 7.1 etc).

[RejZoR]

Who cares about 24bit, as long as it's able to output sound directly to soundcard using it, i'm all with ya!
Keep us posted, if you need testers i'm also there for you with X-Fi Xtreme Music.

[gameschild]

Ok so i have it playing back with OpenAL now. The plugin is still very limited but works in stereo mode. No multichannel speakers to play with but it's implemented.

[rope1111]

Originally posted by CiroConsentino
I'm not forcing anyone here. OpenAL is an open source library and well documented. I really miss hardware acceleration in Vista. I didn't buy a dedicated sound card to use the CPU when playing music or games.

Bedies, other users already asked for a OpenAL plugin and they got the exact same reply...

I too think soo. Nice thought

_____________
Chanel Bag

[gameschild]

OpenAL output status
* Multi-channel support in there, stereo tested, > stereo not tested
* Playback tested on MP3/FLAC (vis doesn't work on FLAC yet)
* Pause/Volume etc all working

Will keep you posted

[gameschild]

Wumpus Out OpenAL v0.2.1
57kB

Can people give this a bashing and PM me with a list of issues, features, wishlists etc and I'll work out what I'll put into 0.3.

http://www.wumpus.co.uk/dload/wumpus_out_openal.zip

Cheers.

[Omega X]

I'll give it a shot, but I really want 24bit playback despite the comments of others.

[gameschild]

Right now OpenAL does not support 24bit audio so unless they release an SDK extension it wont happen anytime soon. Sorry

[Omega X]

I'm not getting any output from this plugin at all in Vista (Winamp 5.33). And the plugin doesn't reflect the version number (0.2.1).

[gameschild]

Make sure 24 bit output is disabled

[Omega X]

I found the problem.

My DSP plugin was interfering with the Open Al plugin.

[RejZoR]

It's working quiet well. Though there are some pitch problems with some songs. I have one song (it's a 80+ minute trance mix). It's starts fine, skips sound for a few miliseconds and continues with increased pitch. It eventually gets back to normal. Most of other songs qwork without any problems.

EDIT:
Nope, pitch problem doesn't always fix by itself...

[gameschild]

I found that this morning, doesn't seem to apply to all tracks but it always applies to the same tracks which is odd. Still investigating but will definately be fixed in 0.3

[gameschild]

Ok I've fixed the buffering/pitch/timing issues.

Can get mp3/flac/avi(Frasier!) working now properly and synced.

Once I've cleaned up a bit and tested a bit more will post 0.3