Artificial Sweeteners

[eheiney]

Cancer causing or not?

A debate with a friend about this made me realize how big of a scare this issue has given lately. From what I've read I personally don't believe it, but she insists that artificial sweeteners cause cancer and refuses to eat foods that contain them.

[Vil]

Pretty much anything in excess is bad, and it would be fair to say any chemical in excess could cause cancer.

[pixiefied]

i think it caused a rat to get cancer..either way natural suger is my choice.

[eheiney]

No argument there, anything in excess is bad. Moderation is the key.

As for the rat, I'd have to find the article again but, I believe it was saccharin that did indeed cause cancer in a rat. However, this was not relevant to humans because of such differences in our DNA. I really want to find that article again now.

[pixiefied]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12155793/

[mikm]

Artificial sweeteners taste like shit anyways.

[sgtfuzzbubble011]

Basically, you'd have to drink a 55-gallon drum of Diet Coke every day for 30 years to get cancer.

[pixiefied]

but if you mix rum with it...

[sgtfuzzbubble011]

Damn, that's a lot of rum.

[baafie]

Given all the controversy since it was introduced, I bet that your friend is referring to aspartame, which is a sweetener commonly found in sodas.

In short, the jury is still out on whether or not aspartame increases the risk of cancer. Many studies have been carried out but there is no uniform scientific opinion either way.

However, given the eternal corruption involved in the FDA and the apparent corruption in its European counterpart, I think I can safely say that aspartame has been approved for general consumption regardless, rather than because, of scientific research. That is to say, negative results have always been discarded for some reason or another.

So, should you immediately stop ingesting aspartame containing products? No. However, you might want to change your ten-diet-cokes-a-day habits.

[mysterious_w]

My god aspartame is such a weak substitute for sugar. Useful if you're constipated and need to shit though, than phenylalanine really loosens up the bowels.

[Widdykats]

I can't have any artificial sweetner. They, literally, make me throw up. That is not uncommon.

[k_rock923]

I hardly ever eat sugary foods, but on the rare occasion that I do, it's the real stuff.

As far as soda. . . if you ever have the attitude that you want a Diet Coke or diet whatever, do yourself a favor and get a bottle of water instead.

[jheriko]

Originally posted by denkensiefursich
However, this was not relevant to humans because of such differences in our DNA.

iirc rats (probably mice actually...) are used to find ld50s and other qualities of toxins for precisely the opposite reason - that their metabolism and genetics can usually be scaled up naively to humans with reasonably accurate results...

generally though artificial sweeteners are probably bad. They taste sweet, but contain no usable sugars, as such they trigger a physiological response thats not needed... which is more than likely damaging in some respect, though probably very small. something like how chewing gum is bad for your stomach etc...

[pixiefied]

i'm pretty sure ANYTHING artificial is bad.

[sgtfuzzbubble011]

I hear that antifreeze is sweet...

[pixiefied]

mine looks like sunkist..but i don't think it tastes like it.

[sgtfuzzbubble011]

I run fruit punch in my new truck. :P

[eheiney]

A neighbor at our old house killed our dog by giving it antifreeze. Fucking cunt.

[fc*uk]

Fact: that rat that got cancer was force fed what ever artificial sweetener it got cancer from.

Fact: that rat had to eat nearly 50 times its body mass in ten days to develop cancer.

Fact: for a human to consume that much sweetener, we would have to eat a tonne to a tonne and a half of it.

Grab your spoon, you got 10 days and counting.

Fact: Sarge's comical post at the beginning of this thread about the 55 gallon drum of diet coke comes very close to the amount required ... if one is allowed to spread it over 30 years.

[Omega X]

And it usually has to be diet. They usually don't use artificial sweeteners for most non diet products. High fructose corn syrup is where its at.

[sgtfuzzbubble011]

And people thought I was joking.

[jheriko]

Originally posted by pixiefied
i'm pretty sure ANYTHING artificial is bad.

Lots of people dislike monosodium glutamate which is an "artificial" food additive.

Chemically it is very similar to salt and is just as good a source of sodium, except instead of a poisonous and useless chlorine ion attached to it, it gives you a nice healthy glutamate ion. Something your body actually needs to live (its an amino acid oxide, required to build a multitude of vital proteins), and which is non-toxic except in ridiculous doses, impossible to recieve through eating alone.

Bottom line is that MSG is probably a lot healthier than sea salt.

I'd like to hear a good reason why it is not... preferably from a scientist, or someone with knowledge or evidence and not some organic foods crackpot.

9/10 times the people who complain about these things in their food actually have no idea whatsoever what they are talking about, no evidence of anything bad etc... just some belief that "unnatural" or "artificial" (whatever that means. I challenge you to define it(!)) stuff is automatically bad.

[MidnightViper88]

Originally posted by k_rock923
As far as soda. . . if you ever have the attitude that you want a Diet Coke or diet whatever, do yourself a favor and get a bottle of water instead.

There aren't any water that has caffeenes though D:




Anyway, aspartame causes cancer, sugar causes diabetes

What's the best way to ruin yourself?

[sgtfuzzbubble011]

Get to drinkin'!

[MidnightViper88]

Alcohol, right!

Jack Daniels and Coca-Cola; Alcohol+ Sugar = Double the damage!

[fc*uk]

Originally posted by jheriko
Bottom line is that MSG is probably a lot healthier than sea salt.

I'd like to hear a good reason why it is not... preferably from a scientist, or someone with knowledge or evidence and not some organic foods crackpot.

It is not healthier than salt because, according to a 1995 FASEB (Federation of American Societies for Experimental Biology) conducted on account of a request from the FDA determined:

an unknown percentage of the peopulation reactes to MSG and develops a MSG symptom complex, a condition characterized by one or more of the following sympyoms:

burning sensation in the back of the neck, forearms and chest
numbness in the back of the neck, radiating to the arms and back
tingling, warmth and weakness in the face, temples, upper back, neck and arms
facial pressure or tightness
chest pain
headache
nausea
rapid heartbeat
bronchospasm (difficulty breathing) in MSG-intolerant people with asthma
drowsiness
weakness.

In otherwise healthy MSG-intolerant people, the MSG symptom complex tends to occur within one hour after eating 3 grams or more of MSG on an empty stomach or without other food. A typical serving of glutamate-treated food contains less than 0.5 grams of MSG. A reaction is most likely if the MSG is eaten in a large quantity or in a liquid, such as a clear soup.

Severe, poorly controlled asthma may be a predisposing medical condition for MSG symptom complex.

No evidence exists to suggest that dietary MSG or glutamate contributes to Alzheimer's disease, Huntington's chorea, amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, AIDS dementia complex, or any other long-term or chronic diseases.

No evidence exists to suggest that dietary MSG causes brain lesions or damages nerve cells in humans.

The level of vitamin B6 in a person's body plays a role in glutamate metabolism, and the possible impact of marginal B6 intake should be considered in future research.

There is no scientific evidence that the levels of glutamate in hydrolyzed proteins causes adverse effects or that other manufactured glutamate has effects different from glutamate normally found in foods.

These risks don't exist for NaCl.

[Widdykats]

Originally posted by denkensiefursich
A neighbor at our old house killed our dog by giving it antifreeze. Fucking cunt.

That's fucking disgusting! Bastard!

[Omega X]

Originally posted by jheriko

9/10 times the people who complain about these things in their food actually have no idea whatsoever what they are talking about, no evidence of anything bad etc... just some belief that "unnatural" or "artificial" (whatever that means. I challenge you to define it(!)) stuff is automatically bad.

You should talk to the ORGANIC nuts.

They will never get me to buy an overpriced product just because it has a green logo on it. I mean, how much more organic can Rasin Bran get? I don't need the stinking extra tariff for green letters.

[mikm]

Obviously you don't know what "organic" means, Omega X.

[Widdykats]

^ Of course he does! Look at his name!

[MidnightViper88]

"Organic" also means "Feel good"; The food doesn't really do much outside of that...

[Omega X]

"Organic" also means an extra $3.00+ on top of the price of whatever its on. There is always some scheme to inflate prices for more profits.

[mikm]

Originally posted by Omega X
"Organic" also means an extra $3.00+ on top of the price of whatever its on. There is always some scheme to inflate prices for more profits.

Originally posted by MidnightViper88
"Organic" also means "Feel good"; The food doesn't really do much outside of that...

There is no real health benefit to organic food. However, I wouldn't call it a "scheme for more profits." Since organic food is grown without the use of pesticides and the like, it probably takes more effort to grow, hence the markup (there is also probably some costly red tape to get "certified" as organic). Some people like the idea of food that isn't grown with chemicals (that almost certainly are harmful to the environment) and are willing to pay extra for it. If you don't care, I don't see what the issue is - just don't buy it.

You might be confusing products labeled "organic" (which is a valid distinction) with "all natural" (which is a bunch of bullshit).

[MidnightViper88]

I can't walk into a grocery store and ask "Where's the 'non-organic' section?"

If people want to eat organic, whatever; Their pantry, not mine...

I just don't get why people tote organic food as though it were food from God Himself...Yeah, it doesn't have chemicals and pesticides in it, and there's nothing wrong with that, but there are a lot of people that will buy organic food as if it were merely a status symbol, like the people that buy a Prius...The substantive stuff about organic food doesn't matter as much as it's special from normal food...

"Look at me, I feel good about myself because I buy organic!"

Nothing wrong with the food; The people that usually buy it are just doing it for the wrong reasons...



Besides, I can't see how people could even consider buying something more expensive when the price of food in general is already rising...

[Vil]

Originally posted by MidnightViper88
I can't walk into a grocery store and ask "Where's the 'non-organic' section?"

If people want to eat organic, whatever; Their pantry, not mine...

I just don't get why people tote organic food as though it were food from God Himself...Yeah, it doesn't have chemicals and pesticides in it, and there's nothing wrong with that, but there are a lot of people that will buy organic food as if it were merely a status symbol, like the people that buy a Prius...The substantive stuff about organic food doesn't matter as much as it's special from normal food...

"Look at me, I feel good about myself because I buy organic!"

Nothing wrong with the food; The people that usually buy it are just doing it for the wrong reasons...



Besides, I can't see how people could even consider buying something more expensive when the price of food in general is already rising...

Personally, I would rather eat something without potentially harmful chemicals in them over something with them. The popularity of these products may help cause the food industry to shift to making food without these unnecessary additions.

Companies will charge what they think people will pay, and if they guess wrong they change their guess. Organic food may cost more to produce, but I would seriously doubt that any of the companies selling/producing it have less profits than non-organic companies.

tl;dr organic food is all around healthier for everyone, and it will cost more until it becomes the standard, if it does

[mikm]

I can't walk into a grocery store and ask "Where's the 'non-organic' section?"

Yeah! How dare stores put the hippie food next to the food that real Americans eat.

[MidnightViper88]

Meh, I guess I'm just being cynical...I already said I'm not against the product; I'm against the image people try to tie to it...With the many ways our society can be so half-assed, the only people that are truly organic are the Amish and tribal natives...

I don't give a shit

Anyway, the thing I mean by high prices is that the price of normal, mass-produced food such as corn and rice are already going up, and I don't see how people could possibly be financial sane to buy organic when even the already-high organic will probably go up in price too (Put away the microeconomics chart on demand for a moment here)...

[Vil]

Originally posted by MidnightViper88
Anyway, the thing I mean by high prices is that the price of normal, mass-produced food such as corn and rice are already going up, and I don't see how people could possibly be financial sane to buy organic when even the already-high organic will probably go up in price too (Put away the microeconomics chart on demand for a moment here)...

Some people care very much about what they put in their bodies. Some people care very much about what other people perceive they put in their bodies. Some people have a lot of disposable income. Some people don't mind racking up debt.

tl;dr people have different priorities and means

[sgtfuzzbubble011]

Kinda like people buying giant SUVs, huh?