Spain weighs torture inquiry for 6 former Bush officials

rockouthippie · 30th March 2009, 17:46

LONDON - A high-level Spanish court has taken the first steps toward opening a criminal investigation against six former Bush administration officials, including former attorney general Alberto R. Gonzales, on whether they violated international law by providing a legalistic framework to justify the use of torture of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, an official close to the case said.

The case was sent to the prosecutor's office for review by Baltasar Garzon, the crusading investigative judge who ordered the arrest of the former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. The official said that it was "highly probable" that the case would go forward and that it could lead to arrest warrants.

http://www.boston.com/news/world/eur...ush_officials/

I guess former Bush officials won't be vacationing in the EU.

This isn't really surprising given the current socialist government faces lingering uncertainty about whether the socialists or the former conservative government had something to do with the Madrid Train Bombings. It was thought that the bombings were Al-Queda inspired which caused the conservative government to lose power and resulted in the withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq in 2004. The conservatives blamed the ETA, a basque terrorist group. The socialists blamed the conservatives for their involvement in the Iraq War thereby earning Spain enemies. The eventual investigation was suspiciously indeterminate.

baafie · 30th March 2009, 19:49

Hm? There are places in the world where prosecution is not a political decision. So you can spare the political theory.

rockouthippie · 30th March 2009, 20:06

Quote:

Originally posted by baafie
Hm? There are places in the world where prosecution is not a political decision.

Yes, but that wouldn't be Spain. This is a stunt. Just like the stunts pulled by both sides to try to blame the other after the Madrid bombings. The perpetrators may have been truly un-allied.

baafie · 30th March 2009, 21:48

Nonsense. You are so tied up in your world of corruption that you can't understand situations where things work as they are supposed to. I'm not entirely unsympathetic though, as corruption is built into your country.

rockouthippie · 30th March 2009, 23:20

http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/spain/report-2008

Here's the Amnesty International report on Spain and it's use of torture.

Reports of torture and other ill-treatment by law enforcement officers continued to be widespread. Law enforcement bodies and judicial authorities failed to investigate such cases in line with international standards, leading to effective impunity.

Spanish authorities consistently fail to implement recommendations by the Council of Europe's Committee for the Prevention of Torture and the UN Committee Against Torture to combat the use of torture in detention.

Interestingly enough:

Allegations about the involvement of Spanish police in interrogations of detainees at the US detention centre at GuantÃ¡namo Bay between 2002 and 2005 came to light in early 2007.

Bush must have made them do it!

rockouthippie · 5th April 2009, 07:00

Quote:

Originally posted by baafie
Nonsense. You are so tied up in your world of corruption that you can't understand situations where things work as they are supposed to. I'm not entirely unsympathetic though, as corruption is built into your country.

Which country are you from that isn't corrupt? It's probably Britain, and I guess we'll have to overlook a few centuries of imperialist oppression and a couple of world wars (caused by squabbling with the other European imperialist powers) to give you a "brownie button". Britain? France? Germany? Spain? Italy? Russia? Not exactly using Gandhi for a role model.

Indochina, Korea, Eastern Europe, Pakistan, Afghanistan and the rest of the Middle East messes? All caused by the failed projection of European military power and it's failed imperialism. Israel? Because you guys scared the Jews so bad they went to live in a desert that wouldn't grow a good scorpion.

baafie · 5th April 2009, 10:57

Honestly, I don't think any country is without corruption. That said, In many places people can sue the government to force it to prosecute a criminal. That sidesteps potential corruption in the government, although there is no recourse if the judge is corrupt.

It seems you're getting sidetracked by a "my country is better than yours" discussion, which isn't going to yield much result because there is no perfect country.

rockouthippie · 5th April 2009, 11:24

No, and the US isn't as corrupt as most. In the case of Spain here, motives are becoming more clear. This looks like an attempt to embarrass Prime Minister Zapatero because he's been trying to improve relations with the US and the Obama administration.

Zapatero is scheduled to meet President Barack Obama this morning in Prague.

30th March 2009, 17:46	#1
rockouthippie Forum King Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 10,591	Spain weighs torture inquiry for 6 former Bush officials LONDON - A high-level Spanish court has taken the first steps toward opening a criminal investigation against six former Bush administration officials, including former attorney general Alberto R. Gonzales, on whether they violated international law by providing a legalistic framework to justify the use of torture of prisoners at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, an official close to the case said. The case was sent to the prosecutor's office for review by Baltasar Garzon, the crusading investigative judge who ordered the arrest of the former Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet. The official said that it was "highly probable" that the case would go forward and that it could lead to arrest warrants. http://www.boston.com/news/world/eur...ush_officials/ I guess former Bush officials won't be vacationing in the EU. This isn't really surprising given the current socialist government faces lingering uncertainty about whether the socialists or the former conservative government had something to do with the Madrid Train Bombings. It was thought that the bombings were Al-Queda inspired which caused the conservative government to lose power and resulted in the withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq in 2004. The conservatives blamed the ETA, a basque terrorist group. The socialists blamed the conservatives for their involvement in the Iraq War thereby earning Spain enemies. The eventual investigation was suspiciously indeterminate. Global Movies and TV God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to hide the bodies of people who pissed me off. Last edited by rockouthippie; 30th March 2009 at 18:43.

30th March 2009, 23:20	#5
rockouthippie Forum King Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 10,591	http://www.amnesty.org/en/region/spain/report-2008 Here's the Amnesty International report on Spain and it's use of torture. Reports of torture and other ill-treatment by law enforcement officers continued to be widespread. Law enforcement bodies and judicial authorities failed to investigate such cases in line with international standards, leading to effective impunity. Spanish authorities consistently fail to implement recommendations by the Council of Europe's Committee for the Prevention of Torture and the UN Committee Against Torture to combat the use of torture in detention. Interestingly enough: Allegations about the involvement of Spanish police in interrogations of detainees at the US detention centre at GuantÃ¡namo Bay between 2002 and 2005 came to light in early 2007. Bush must have made them do it! Global Movies and TV God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to hide the bodies of people who pissed me off.

5th April 2009, 11:24	#8
rockouthippie Forum King Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Oregon Posts: 10,591	No, and the US isn't as corrupt as most. In the case of Spain here, motives are becoming more clear. This looks like an attempt to embarrass Prime Minister Zapatero because he's been trying to improve relations with the US and the Obama administration. Zapatero is scheduled to meet President Barack Obama this morning in Prague. Global Movies and TV God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to hide the bodies of people who pissed me off.

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30th March 2009, 19:49	#2
baafie feminazi (Major Dude) Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 1,768	Hm? There are places in the world where prosecution is not a political decision. So you can spare the political theory.

30th March 2009, 21:48	#4
baafie feminazi (Major Dude) Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 1,768	Nonsense. You are so tied up in your world of corruption that you can't understand situations where things work as they are supposed to. I'm not entirely unsympathetic though, as corruption is built into your country.

5th April 2009, 10:57	#7
baafie feminazi (Major Dude) Join Date: Apr 2001 Posts: 1,768	Honestly, I don't think any country is without corruption. That said, In many places people can sue the government to force it to prosecute a criminal. That sidesteps potential corruption in the government, although there is no recourse if the judge is corrupt. It seems you're getting sidetracked by a "my country is better than yours" discussion, which isn't going to yield much result because there is no perfect country.