UN inspectors: Saddam shipped out WMD before war and after

[webthing]

Friday, June 11, 2004

The United Nations has determined that Saddam Hussein shipped weapons of mass destruction components as well as medium-range ballistic missiles before, during and after the U.S.-led war against Iraq in 2003.

The UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission briefed the Security Council on new findings that could help trace the whereabouts of Saddam's missile and WMD program.

The briefing contained satellite photographs that demonstrated the speed with which Saddam dismantled his missile and WMD sites before and during the war. Council members were shown photographs of a ballistic missile site outside Baghdad in May 2003, and then saw a satellite image of the same location in February 2004, in which facilities had disappeared.

UNMOVIC acting executive chairman Demetrius Perricos told the council on June 9 that "the only controls at the borders are for the weight of the scrap metal, and to check whether there are any explosive or radioactive materials within the scrap," Middle East Newsline reported.
"It's being exported," Perricos said after the briefing. "It's being traded out. And there is a large variety of scrap metal from very new to very old, and slowly, it seems the country is depleted of metal."

"The removal of these materials from Iraq raises concerns with regard to proliferation risks," Perricos told the council. Perricos also reported that inspectors found Iraqi WMD and missile components shipped abroad that still contained UN inspection tags.

He said the Iraqi facilities were dismantled and sent both to Europe and around the Middle East. at the rate of about 1,000 tons of metal a month. Destionations included Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey.

The Baghdad missile site contained a range of WMD and dual-use components, UN officials said. They included missile components, reactor vessel and fermenters – the latter required for the production of chemical and biological warheads.
"It raises the question of what happened to the dual-use equipment, where is it now and what is it being used for," Ewen Buchanan, Perricos's spokesman, said. "You can make all kinds of *******eutical and medicinal products with a fermenter. You can also use it to breed anthrax."

The UNMOVIC report said Iraqi missiles were dismantled and exported to such countries as Jordan, the Netherlands and Turkey. In the Dutch city of Rotterdam, an SA-2 surface-to-air missile, one of at least 12, was discovered in a junk yard, replete with UN tags. In Jordan, UN inspectors found 20 SA-2 engines as well as components for solid-fuel for missiles.

"The problem for us is that we don't know what may have passed through these yards and other yards elsewhere," Buchanan said. "We can't really assess the significance and don't know the full extent of activity that could be going on there or with others of Iraq's neighbors."

UN inspectors have assessed that the SA-2 and the short-range Al Samoud surface-to-surface missile were shipped abroad by agents of the Saddam regime. Buchanan said UNMOVIC plans to inspect other sites, including in Turkey.

In April, International Atomic Energy Agency director-general Mohammed El Baradei said material from Iraqi nuclear facilities were being smuggled out of the country.


http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtri...reaking_1.html

The Report

http://www.un.org/Depts/unmovic/new/...s-2004-435.pdf

From the Report

The Commission’s experts are conducting an investigation in parallel with the
IAEA Iraq Nuclear Verification Office regarding the discovery of items from Iraq
that are relevant to the mandates of UNMOVIC and IAEA at a scrapyard in the
Netherlands. In particular, following a visit of IAEA to a scrapyard in Rotterdam to
investigate increased radiation readings, it was discovered, through photographs
taken at the time, that engines of SA-2 surface-to-air missiles were among the scrap
(see figure below). They are the type of engines used in the Al Samoud 2 proscribed
missile programme. In addition, a number of items and equipment that may also be
relevant to the UNMOVIC mandate were seen among the scrap. The existence of
missile engines originating in Iraq among scrap in Europe may affect the accounting
of proscribed engines known to have been in Iraq’s possession in March 2003. Both
IAEA and UNMOVIC have kept the Security Council informed of this matter.

A team of Commission experts visited the site concerned in the Netherlands
and examined one missile engine that had been salvaged from the scrap metal
process. By comparing the serial production number on the engine with information
in the UNMOVIC database, the experts were able to confirm that the engine was one
from an SA-2 missile that had been tagged by United Nations inspectors in the past
and had not been declared as having been fired. Representatives of the scrapyard
company indicated that a number of similar engines (5 to had been seen in the
scrapyard in January and February of this year. More engines could have been
processed and passed through the yard unnoticed. Company staff confirmed that
other items made of stainless steel and other corrosion-resistant metal alloys bearing
the inscription “Iraq” or “Baghdad” had been observed in shipments delivered from
the Middle East since November 2003. A number of items were examined and
sampled on-site by UNMOVIC experts with a portable metal analyser and were
determined to be composed of inconel and titanium - both dual-use materials
subject to monitoring. Photographs of other materials bearing Arabic script were
taken.

Despite the active cooperation of the Government of the Netherlands and the
company concerned, it was not possible to determine how many other engines and
other material previously subject to monitoring in Iraq may have passed through this
scrapyard (or others). It should also be noted that the scrapyard that was visited by
UNMOVIC deals in high-quality stainless steel. Items and equipment made of dualuse
materials subject to the provisions of the monitoring plan may also be coming
out of Iraq to other destinations. The Commission is continuing its investigation.

In addition, the Commission is aware from comparative analysis of recent
satellite imagery that a number of sites previously known to have contained
equipment and materials subject to monitoring have been either cleaned out or
destroyed. An example of such imagery is provided in the appendix to the present
report. It is not known whether such equipment and materials were still present at
the sites during the time of coalition action in March and April of 2003. However, it
is possible that some of the materials may have been removed from Iraq by looters
of sites and sold as scrap.

Iraq imported chemicals used in propellants, test instrumentation and, guidance and control systems. Iraq or some company in Iraq, circumvented the restrictions imposed by various resolutions. What is clear is that they were illegally brought into Iraq.

One of the issues currently under examination by UNMOVIC in the framework
of work on the compendium is the evaluation of Iraq’s procurement network that
operated from 1999 to 2002, the period in which inspectors were absent from Iraq.
During this period, Iraq utilized a sophisticated procurement network for the
acquisition of foreign materials, equipment and technology. It consisted of Stateowned
trading companies, established and controlled by the Military
Industrialization Commission of Iraq, with branches in foreign countries, Iraqi
private sector and foreign trading companies operating in Iraq and abroad, multiple
intermediaries, chains of foreign suppliers of items and materials, bank accounts and
transportation companies. In several instances, the Iraqi State-owned trading
companies had shares in foreign trading companies or were closely affiliated with
local private trading companies.
The prime purpose of the evaluation is to identify whether this network has
been used for the acquisition of proscribed single-use or notifiable dual-use items
and materials that could have been utilized by Iraq in a biological, chemical or
missile programme.
The bulk of the data for the evaluation came from the semi-annual monitoring
declarations of Iraq, procurement information obtained during the course of
inspection activities in Iraq from November 2002 to March 2003, notes of
interviews and discussions with Iraqi officials and electronic files retrieved through
the forensic computer exploitation carried out at facilities and establishments
involved in procurement. The computer files alone constitute some 12,000 pages of
procurement documents, most of which are in Arabic. The following are preliminary
findings of the ongoing examination.

In general, from 1999 to 2002 Iraq procured a variety of dual-use biological
and chemical items and materials, including chemicals, equipment and spare parts.

Although some of the goods may have been acquired by Iraq outside the framework of mechanisms established under
Security Council resolutions, most of them were later declared by Iraq to
UNMOVIC in its semi-annual monitoring declarations.

However, in several instances Iraq provided misleading declarations regarding
the suppliers and sources of the items and materials as well as procurement
channels, claiming that they had been purchased on the local market. It appeared
that they had been procured outside Iraq through private trading companies
operating both in and outside of the country. There is much evidence that from 1999
to 2002 Iraq procured materials, equipment and components for use in its missile
programmes. In several instances, the items procured were used by Iraq for
programmes, such as the production of Al Samoud 2 missiles, that were determined
by UNMOVIC in February 2003 to be proscribed. This can be illustrated by the
acquisition of at least 380 SA-2 missile engines for Iraq’s prime missile
establishment by an Iraqi Government-owned trading company controlled by the
Military Industrialization Commission through a local Iraqi trading company and a
foreign trading company.

UNMOVIC is currently analysing documents available to
it in order to establish the source of the engines procured through the local trading
company and of any additional SA-2 engines (or other missile-related items) that
might have been procured by Iraq since 1999.

The same Iraqi governmental trading company was involved, through a
contract with two foreign private companies, in procuring components and
equipment for the manufacture and testing of missile guidance and control systems,
including inertial navigation systems with fibre-optic and laser ring gyroscopes and
Global Positioning System equipment, accelerometers, ancillary items and a variety
of production and testing equipment. The list of items sought includes several that
were not declared or shown to UNMOVIC during the course of its inspections.

One Iraqi trading company was also involved in the procurement, through private trading
companies, of different pieces of missile-related production equipment and
technology. Several foreign private subcontractors were responsible for the
implementation of specific parts of the general contract. UNMOVIC is in the
process of assessing the possible applications of items and technology outlined in
that contract.

Supplies from outside Iraq and the methods used by Iraq to hide the true purpose of some of
its procurement and the importance of this in certain programmes. While there are
well-established cases of assistance with items and technologies relating to weapons
of mass destruction being knowingly provided to Iraq, there were also cases when
the suppliers were unaware of the end use of the items and materials sold to Iraq. In
several instances Iraq created “cover stories” or actual parallel projects to ensure
that suppliers or those providing technical assistance would not become aware of the
true nature of the facilities where their equipment or expertise was to be used. Iraq
also established elaborate networks of front companies to obtain materials. The
compendium attempts to chart these and the financial and organizational
infrastructure established to support the networks both inside and outside Iraq.

http://www.unmovic.org/

http://www.state.gov

[ElChevelle]

So, he basically "scrapped" his WMD program

[Pioneer]

I think that's a bunch of bullshit. Saddam sent over thousands of written BOOKS, CD ROMS, CASSETTES, and CHARTS to show that he has no WMD program.

Bush ordered him to do that or we would invade. Well, Saddam did that, and Bush invaded anyway.

They have no WMD, you can't just get rid of something like that within a couple of months without being caught by the U.S. spys or CIA agents.

Propoganda.. Propoganda

[webthing]

I think that's a bunch of bullshit. Saddam sent over thousands of written BOOKS, CD ROMS, CASSETTES, and CHARTS to show that he has no WMD program.

Iraq’s History of Denial, Deception and Concealment

On nearly 30 occasions, Iraq refused -- despite repeated requests from the international community -- to provide credible evidence to substantiate its claims that they do not possess arms or have disarmed fully and completely.

The document cites 17 instances when inspectors uncovered evidence directly contradicting Iraqi claims of innocence.

Iraq has admitted numerous attempts to mislead inspectors by lying or planting false evidence during the inspection process.

[DjDrBruno]

ok maybe you are right
but how about the stuff that makes sense now...
i was there
i saw brand new concrete slabs on the ground all the way to tikrit
it makes sense he was one step ahead of us the whole time.
sending some of that stuff to turkey makes sense too
they wouldn't let us launch from turkey... i look at it this way ...
dont be so quick to call something propaganda or not propaganda do some research first.

[DjDrBruno]

before i could even post that someone was one step ahead of me with the research to make it more convincing! see what i mean about research then post?

[zootm]

The report says that all of the ones they salvaged had been "tagged by United Nations inspectors in the past".

From the report:

In general, from 1999 to 2002 Iraq procured a variety of dual-use biological and chemical items and materials, including chemicals, equipment and spare parts.
To date, UNMOVIC has found no evidence that these were used for proscribed chemical or biological weapon purposes. Although some of the goods may have been acquired by Iraq outside the framework of mechanisms established under Security Council resolutions, most of them were later declared by Iraq to UNMOVIC in its semi-annual monitoring declarations.

The engines that the Iraqi government procured and did not declare were not classified as proscribed until after they were bought. And even then, they only counted with no payload.

It looks to me to be more like Iraq trying to bend the rules, rather than break them.

Also, if they started disassembling the apparatus before the war, what does that prove? That the new inspection process, which was only cut short due to the war, was working.

As soon as the threat of force started to work, we invaded. Fantastic work.

This document proves the war was unjustified on WMD grounds, in my opinion.

[webthing]

Saddam was giving the finger to the UN the U.S. and the world. And he got what he deserved.

End of Story.

[papadoc]

For some people, they could explode a WMD in their face,
and they'd still deny it happened or WMD's exist,
even as the flesh on their body was peeling off.

[DjDrBruno]

I agree he got what he deserved
The important things: Iraqi people are safer by at least tri-fold (no saddam and no saddams kids) then they were.; The states have proved how ignorant we really are. The only thing we should be worrying about now is really two things: Our troops still in dangers way and what are we going to do if Bush gets reelected?

[CaboWaboAddict]

Originally posted by DjDrBruno
The only thing we should be worrying about now is really two things: Our troops still in dangers way and what are we going to do if Bush gets reelected?

Bash Bush again... The way I see it there is only one thing to worry about - getting our boys out now that they asked us to stay.

[zootm]

Originally posted by webthing
Saddam was giving the finger to the UN the U.S. and the world. And he got what he deserved.

End of Story.

And hundreds of civilians died in the process.

Fantastic.

Viewpoints like that show a fundamental lack of regard for human life. Saddam may deserve as bad as he got but the people of Iraq most certainly did not. And to equate the two is an act of utter stupidity.

[CaboWaboAddict]

Doesn't sound to me like webthing equated anything, so whay are you slamming him?

I feel the Iraqis are the ones to make a judgement like that. They obviously have - they asked us to stay, so they must feel it wasn't too stupid.

Wow, hundres of civs died in the process. How long do you think it took Saddam, Oday and Ebay (intended) to off that many on even a slow day?

[zootm]

To leave now would be stupid. I'm questioning the decision to go in at all.

Well, actually, not the decision, but the motives. I think we all know it's not the reasons we were told by the government. And surely we're mature enough countries to be told the truth?

[ElChevelle]

Pizza.

I like pizza.

[watadoo]

What's not to like about pizza?

[Bazman63]

Saurkraut pizza. Bad, very, very bad.

[Omega X]

thinking about a Meat Lovers right now...

[Starbucks]

They obviously have - they asked us to stay, so they must feel it wasn't too stupid.

That's not what the Iraqi polls say. Iraqis don't like the US occupation.

[ShyShy]

A little fat to throw onto the fire, so to speak:

Just had a patient today who was in Iraq during the initial months, and worked for Army intelligence (please take this with a grain of salt, as I did), and he told me that the reason that we couldn't "find" WMDs was that the US government got a hold of them first in order to remove identification that the weapons were of US origins.

[watadoo]

That sounds pretty syuspicious. Mainly because no one is claiming tha the wmd came from anywhere but the good old us of a. Back in Reagon's day, Saddam was our boy. rumsfeld can be seen in a variety of newspaper pics shaking his hand. Osama was our boy back in the day too. It's the dog shit swept under the bed that the folks in power hope few will pay attention to.

[CaboWaboAddict]

Originally posted by Starbucks
That's not what the Iraqi polls say. Iraqis don't like the US occupation.

Say what you will, they asked us to stay and help them keep order.

[ShyShy]

@watadoo: I don't know if I can honestly say that I disbelieved/believed the patient, more of "I wouldn't be surprised".

[zootm]

It's all about how the people interpret it. A move to remove things of US origin could be a good plan, as silly as it sounds, not because we didn't already know that was where things were from, but because being reminded would be a publicity fault for the govt.

I worry about the amount of propaganda that comes from our own governments, particularly the bits that are insultingly thinly-veiled. I'd not believe too much about that patient's account, though, sounds like a vicious rumour to me...

[papadoc]

I'm starting to believe one of two things about WMD's.

One: they were moved to another country before the war,
which to me is the weaker argument, although still possible.
If that's the case, then we better be more concerned who has them,
and quit wasting time looking in Iraq.

Two: Saddam used them all up killing the people of Iraq
before we ever planned to go there.
But he was lied to in order to keep him thinking he still had stockpiles.
If they'd told him "sorry, we don't have no more WMD"s"
they would have been executed for incompetence.
Without WMD's, Saddam would have no legitimate leverage with anyone.
As long as the world "thought" he had them, he had power.
As long as the people of Iraq thought he had them,
he controlled them from border to border.
But in reality, there are none left.
They were all used up killing his own people years ago.

[zootm]

And the Iranians. Far, far more Iranians were killed with WMDs than his own people. I don't see why people concentrate on his killing of his own people so much.

There wasn't enough killing to account for all of the weapons he'd had left after he was made to stop actually using them. It's known that he destroyed a great number of them, but evidence was not collected/provided to prove the destruction of all of them (not by a long way). There's really no evidence to prove they were there, or that they were destroyed, which is why the point is in so much contention. I doubt they were sent to another country, although that's largely because I can't think of any country that Saddam would want them to go to. It just doesn't sound plausible to me.

[papadoc]

You are right about the Iranians zootm, I forgot about them..
Thanks for pointing that out.
I do believe they kept just enough around to make Saddam think he had stockpiles,
and make the world think he had stockpiles.
But it wasn't enough, that when the time came,
they could'nt destroy them or move them before we got there.

And you are also right about moving them to another country.
Which is why I said I think that is the weaker argument.
Who of his neighbors would he trust to keep them,
and not use them against him?

In any event, I'm personally loosing hope that we will find them.
I've hung in there with optimisim that we were right about WMD's,
but my optimism is fading as each day goes by.

[zootm]

If there was any there, I seriously doubt there was many.

I, for one, would be glad if there was none. Regardless of my opinion on the war itself, these weapons need to be gotten rid of for good. Horrible things.

[ElChevelle]

Negrodamus on the Chappelle Show:

Audience member: "Negrodamus, why is George Bush so sure that there are WMD's in Iraq?"

Negrodamus: "Because he has the receipt."

[zootm]

that's a hicks joke, isn't it?

[ElChevelle]

A political statement VIA comedy.

[Phyltre]

In a capitalistic society, there is no news outlet that can be trusted:

Everything has a price; the more trusted the outlet, the higher the price. But even the most trusted organization must be run by human beings, who will live and die in a world run by money. Not a world run by integrity or factuality--but by money. And for some, money is more comfort than the assurance of truth.

In the end, we only know what we're told

if we believe it.

[dlinkwit27]

who cares wether or not we sold them the WMD's? We wern't the ones using them to threaten other countries.

If the WMD's were from us, I think blaming us for anythign that happened with them would be like blaming every single gun store in the US for the thousands of murders in the US each year. It just doesn't make sence.

[InvisableMan]

exactly. i believe the decision to go to war was a good one, i dont care why bush said we needed to do it the fact of the matter is we needed to do it. noone else would. the un was sure happy skimming their billions off of the oil for food program so they wern't gonna do anything

i dont really care that we may have sold him said weapons in the past, first off it wasnt ME that sold them to him and i'm sure WE didnt forsee he was going to do what he did with them.

if you put a gun to my head and forced me to come up with something i dont like about the war, it's the fact that my generation has to clean up the mess that the generation or two before me made.