VP3 or VP6?

[IANAUN]

Hi I want to stream NSV low bitrate files @ 50k max, very low I know but Im really trying concentrating on the type media rather then the quality at this time. My question is what is better for streaming low bitrate files VP3 or VP6?

[Marsman2k]

One of VP6's strong points is quality at low bit rates. The best picture will be done with VP6

[Inedible Bulk]

For once marsman2k is right.

[sankt]

Just remember, any use of the VP6 codec for any purpose other than personal media archiving is considered commercial use.

Commercial use DOES require the purchase of a commercial license. You can contact ON2 directly for information regarding that.


To bypass that headache and money crunch, you can always encode your video files with Windows Media Video encoder (free for commercial or non commercial use) and use NSVate to convert the files into NSV format.

www.scvi.net/wmv

[Inedible Bulk]

And when you contact them, you want the VFW codec, they have no clue what NSV is.

Edit: Sankt, What are you thinking?

I'll go encode my divx to xvid then to nsv, with the vp6 video codec, and i'll have no worries about On2 coming after me.

And I'll encode my mpegs to wmv then to nsv, and somehow, nsv will use some dll (a dll made for nsv encoding, and of which none exist of a wmv in nsv wrapper, even on the page you link to, for nsv) and it won't be owned by on2.

Wrong. Your page which you linked to, with info from kxrm (and as stated by kxrm in the post here, one you never responded to or saw), contains information on how to convert from WMV to NSV. Not to WMV to NSV with the WMV inside, but with VP3.1 or VP6 inside.


I could be wrong, but the page you link to doesn't have any info on wrapping a wmv in nsv, but encoding a wmv to an nsv wrapper, wrapping something OTHER THAN a wmv.


Probably just a slight oversight.

[sankt]

Originally posted by Inedible Bulk
And when you contact them, you want the VFW codec, they have no clue what NSV is.

Edit: Sankt, What are you thinking?

Use of the VP6.1 or VP6.2 codec for other than personal archival of media requires a commercial license.

I'll go encode my divx to xvid then to nsv, with the vp6 video codec, and i'll have no worries about On2 coming after me.

I might suggest you re-read the the end users agreement.

Please feel free to contact Mr. Tim Reusing (Executive Vice President & General Counsel) at ON2. Mr Reusing can forward to you the appropriate legal correspondence regarding the use of the VP6.1 or VP6.2 codec as specified in the End Users Agreement / License.

And I'll encode my mpegs to wmv then to nsv and it won't be owned by on2.

ON2 corporation does not license NullSoft or Microsoft Corporation software. ON2 only licenses software products originated by them. Thus VP6.1 and VP6.2 codec software license requirements.

Again I would highly suggest you contact Mr Reusing, General Counsel at ON2 for further legal clarification of the End Users Agreement and license requirements.


I stand corrected on using NSVate for use to provide the NSV container format. That oversight on my part will be corrected.

I hope that a solution will be provided for migrating other container formats into the NSV format while leaving the actual encoded material intact.

[Inedible Bulk]

What I'm stating is, you seemed to be on a crusade to encode files to wmv before nsv, but not as wmv inside an nsv wrapper. It's like prewashing before washing, except in this case it degrades the quality of video by making "a copy of a copy".

I thought you had gone out of your mind.

[slavas]

Originally posted by sankt
[B]Use of the VP6.1 or VP6.2 codec for other than personal archival of media requires a commercial license.

I might suggest you re-read the the end users agreement.

Please feel free to contact Mr. Tim Reusing (Executive Vice President & General Counsel) at ON2. Mr Reusing can forward to you the appropriate legal correspondence regarding the use of the VP6.1 or VP6.2 codec as specified in the End Users Agreement / License.

hmm maybe i am dumb or haven't read license __very_ carefully , but
when installing vp6 codec it won't forbid __non__commercial__streaming__

so why i should contact them and ask why they fucked up on license and to please send more restrictive license then i got,

if they rerelease vp6 codec with new license maybe i'll care (actually i won't ) but now i just simply don't care because i don't use it for commercial purposes

[slavas]

btw sankt what's the point remuxing everything to nsv. if it will be nsv doesn't mean that it's easily playable. i think it would be even worse, lot of newbies will complain that they have latest wa, but can't play nsv, because it's encoded with some unpopular codec.
there are hundreds compression methods and no soft can support all ( well xcept mplayer )

[sankt]

Originally posted by slavas
but now i just simply don't care because i don't use it for commercial purposes

With such a comprehensive knowledge regarding corpus iuris, then indeed you have nothing to fear from the World Intellectual Property Organization.

I myself prefer to abide by lex scripta, when it is presented to me in signatory form.

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by slavas
lot of newbies will complain that they have latest wa, but can't play nsv, because it's encoded with some unpopular codec.

BINGO.

This is one of the biggest problems, if its not bundled, it doesnt exist. Don't pretend otherwise. However if someone makes a good wrapper for something and nullsoft bundles it (or its an easily installable "plugin") then it'll go through fine.

[EricZone]

I still don't know how to convert WMV to NSV

[slavas]

Originally posted by sankt
With such a comprehensive knowledge regarding corpus iuris, then indeed you have nothing to fear from the World Intellectual Property Organization.

I myself prefer to abide by lex scripta, when it is presented to me in signatory form.

You may NOT:
1. copy the documentation, if any, which accompanies the Software;
2. license, sublicense, rent, lease, sell or transfer in any manner any portion of the Software or the work product resulting from the use of the Software;
3. reverse engineer, de-compile, disassemble, modify, translate, make any attempt to discover the source code or resources of the Software or create derivative works based on the Software;
4. use the Software for any third party on a service basis or use the Software or the work product resulting from the use of the Software on a commercial basis or to generate revenue;
5. use the Software other than for personal use;
6. install more than one copy of the Software (other than the one permitted archival copy) or run multiple instances of the Software on a single computer; or
...
ENTIRE AGREEMENT. Unless you and On2 have agreed otherwise by execution of a separate written license or similar agreement ("Other Agreement"), this is the entire agreement between you and On2 and supersedes all prior agreements, commitments or representations of any kind, oral or written relating to the Software Product. In the event of a conflict between this agreement and any Other Agreement, the terms of the Other Agreement shall govern.

pls tell me WHERE it forbids streaming?
if u wanna install apache on xp home will u mail ms and ask "shouldn't i buy w2k3?"

the only way possible to break license is 6) then run few instances of nsvate or nsvenc

[Jay]

slavas,

contact On2 asking these questions, no one here knows why they have a problem with it, yet they do.

[yedo]

Nullsoft says,NSV is still beta status.
It means that NSV is not completed yet and we need more tests.

Commercial use by the system which is not completed is difficult.
Many people are testing NSV with VP6 by@personal technical interest. I think that it does not break a contract with On2.

Slavas can rerease VP6 DLLs for NSV.
Because he rerease those DLLs for personal NSV tests.

On2 should know NSV is the best way to advertizing VP6.
To watch VP6 samples provide by On2 itself,we need download special player called "truecast player".But It's useless except to watch those samples.

But winamp is No1 powerful player software.and It is very easy to watch NSV.
Many peoles who doesn't know about On2 watch NSV and they are suprising the good video compression performance of VP6 now.

[Smelter]

2. license, sublicense, rent, lease, sell or transfer in any manner any portion of the Software or the work product resulting from the use of the Software;


Streaming to winamp is a transer of the work, and thus, breaks the rule.

[Jay]

Originally posted by Smelter
2. license, sublicense, rent, lease, sell or transfer in any manner any portion of the Software or the work product resulting from the use of the Software;


Streaming to winamp is a transer of the work, and thus, breaks the rule.

yup "transfering the work product resulting from the use" would be streaming. You guys really should take this up with On2 they are the ones who have started going after users.

[Cody]

on2's stock is as 60 cents US just buy a share and tell them your checking your investment.

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by Cody
on2's stock is as 60 cents US just buy a share and tell them your checking your investment.

Yeah really, Although I did see their little sample of harry potter at high bandwidth and it was nice, I really don't know of anyone who uses them. Microsoft already has a stronghold in the market with WMV, but VP6 has nothing.

They were suprised when someone (i read this in these forums) contacted them and said they wanted to buy VP6, and they asked "for streaming or vfw", the reply "NSV" confused them. They don't know what NSV is, and techinally since it's a h4xed dll, its not legit in the first place. They'd have to make one for NSV to sell to you, and I doubt they'll do it.



Anyway, they really SHOULD know what NSV is, since nullsoft uses both VP3.1 and VP5.

[sankt]

Four options exist.

1. Purchase $$$$$ a commercial VP6 license.

2. Continue using VP6 and hope that you dont get a notice from ON2.

3. Wait another year for Theora to release beta software

4. Use a existing high definition video codec that is free for commercial and non commercial use. Download of the encoder is free as well. Windows Media Video.

What is needed is the creation of software to encapsulate the output of a windows media encoder with the NSV format.

Windows Media Video is a variant of MPEG 4. DIVX and XVID are also variants of MPEG 4. It shouldnt be that hard to cross over to Windows Media Video.

[B0b]

sankt, I somehow don't think AOL would want to support microsoft

[Inedible Bulk]

Originally posted by sankt
What is needed is the creation of software to encapsulate the output of a windows media encoder with the NSV format.

I'm glad you finally seem to comprehend what I meant.

But yeah, you'll get a billion questions in here about how to use it, or the site will, and all that. We'd have to have a pinned (and NEVER unpinned) "NSV Codecs" thread.

I think we could start one now, actually, with that DivX for NSV that someone made, I forget who, but Sankt is hosting it on SCVI.

[sankt]

Originally posted by B0b
I somehow don't think AOL would want to support microsoft

It is not a matter of AOL supporting Microsoft, it is a matter of *any one* creating the software.

For the community to grow, it is up to the broadcasters and knowledgeable people to help expand the possibilities.

NullSoft Video didnt just happen because people waited on AOL to do everything. The community has made the difference with creating software and writting information and other things to help NSV grow and become what it is today. The same can certainly be said about shoutcast as well.

[EricZone]

How could we live encode with windows media ?

[EricZone]

Why not doing a plug in to use Real Video in NSVTools ? Real Video codec is OpenSource now (https://helixcommunity.org/)

[drewbar]

The Real Video codec is still closed source; you have to use a DLL to access it. Other parts are open source, but not the RV. Besides, Real sucks. Hell, one of the reasons for NSV is so AOL could dump Real Networks punk asses.

[retrostation]

clap clap clap

[EricZone]

Hehe you're right.