Use of streamrippers against DMCA?

Mission Radio · 21st March 2005, 00:04

Besides the fact that all of us that run stations here want to protect our content and playlists, the use of various streamripping software violates the DMCA in some fashion. Right?

I found someone from Germany using "sr-POSIX/1.60.13" according to my sc-server log on my 128k server. After I found out what it was, I immediately kicked and banned his/her IP.

DuaneJeffers · 21st March 2005, 00:28

... We all know this ... Please tell us something that we don't know ...

AND

Your post is against the rules ...

Quote:

Right to Privacy
- You will not violate a person's privacy by publishing information against another member’s will, information that is private and personal. If you violate this rule, your account may be automatically banned without prior warning.

-Duane

mikm · 21st March 2005, 01:24

Besides the fact that all of us that run computers here want to protect our privacy, the use of various hacking methods violates international law in some fashion. Right?

DuaneJeffers · 21st March 2005, 01:53

That is correct.

-Duane

Germ · 21st March 2005, 01:55

Duane how the hell do you know that ip belongs to another member of these forums? IP's aren't really private and personal either. That rule more applies for photographs, street address, phone numbers... that sort of thing.

griffinn · 21st March 2005, 02:06

DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent anti-piracy measures built into products. Shoutcast has no anti-piracy measures.

shakey_snake · 21st March 2005, 03:32

O to laugh...

Any time DRM comes up, it's best to have one of these around.

whiteflip · 21st March 2005, 05:30

You're being an ass. Do your own dirty work if you want to do something illegal and immoral. Banning his IP is sufficent enough. And yes Stream rippers circumvent methods of copyright protection which is a violation of the DMCA but since your listener is outside US jurisdiction the DMCA does not apply. German law maybe but international law most likely won't give you any leverage.

c2R · 21st March 2005, 05:59

Quote:

Originally posted by Mission Radio
I found someone from Germany using "sr-POSIX/1.60.13" according to my sc-server log on my 128k server. After I found out what it was, I immediately kicked and banned his/her IP. Anyone want to try and hack the ip (xxx)? Ooops! Did I just post that out loud? lol

You're so anal, just doing the RIAAs dirty work for them.

Using a streamripper on a 128k stream is no different from taping off the radio. Furthermore, I could listen to your stream and record the wave output to something as simple as sound recorder using the basic audio codecs on my machine - and you'd never know. Might as well just close down your stream and keep all your music private if it worries you so much...

NJK · 21st March 2005, 06:51

Quote:

Originally posted by Mission Radio

I found someone from Germany using "sr-POSIX/1.60.13" according to my sc-server log on my 128k server. After I found out what it was, I immediately kicked and banned his/her IP. Anyone want to try and hack the ip (xxx.xx.xx.xx)? Ooops! Did I just post that out loud? lol

And your station is fully legal ???
you pay for playing copyrighted music??

you should count your blessings that i'm not a Mod, for breaking the privacy rule and for asking to hack this ip number you deserve a trip to Banned Camp run by your friendly Mod MR Jones.

ShyShy · 21st March 2005, 07:33

Quote:

Originally posted by c2R
Using a streamripper on a 128k stream is no different from taping off the radio. Furthermore, I could listen to your stream and record the wave output to something as simple as sound recorder using the basic audio codecs on my machine - and you'd never know. Might as well just close down your stream and keep all your music private if it worries you so much...

All very good points, Mr. c2R. Cookie?

c2R · 21st March 2005, 17:24

Quote:

Originally posted by ShyShy
All very good points, Mr. c2R. Cookie?

Permission to be smug, sir?

drewbar · 21st March 2005, 17:35

If you want to avoid stream ripping make sure you make it so people don't want to record your stream. Corss-fades, intro and end talk overs. The same stuff most radio stations use. If you are listening to the radio it wouldn't bother you. But if you are trying to cut a stream into individual MP3s, it will make it difficult and make the MP3s messed up.

Mission Radio · 22nd March 2005, 11:34

Ok, perhaps posting the IP was wrong of me. I wasn't thinking. *hold my hand out to be slapped*

As far as my station being 100% legal... not yet, but we're working on it. All the music we play either comes directly from the labels themselves or I have gone out to buy it. All I need are the licensing deals with BMI, ASCAP, SESAC and S.E. Mission Radio is a Christian station and views the fact that we get the majority of our music from major labels as a duty to see that thier artist's intelectual property is protected to the best of our ability. If this means that we are doing the RIAA a favor, then that's your opinion to which you're intitled to.

While it is true that streamripping is VERY close to taping off FM, it does eat up a very valuable server slot that could be better used by someone who actually wants to listen. The only benefit that it has for me is that it ups my TTSL. But the fact that they may or may not be actually listening, in my mind, invalidates this benefit and would serve to make my actual numbers suspect to any potential advertiser should they ever find out that my listener base is full of streamrippers. This is the main reason that I feel it's our duty to combat this problem.

I do use crossfading, as Drewbar suggested, by way of SAM3. And since we've only been online with this station for a little under a month, we're still working on getting fully staffed. I don't know if I want to be as big as Launchcast, but if that's what God has in mind for this station... then so be it. Know anyone who knows Christain music and wants to be part of a new ministry? Have them contact me and we'll talk.

EazMan · 22nd March 2005, 23:53

you'd be better off posting this in the sc forum. i do agree the posting the ip was a bad idea, how you people feel if someone was using youre station for illeagal purposes, especially after all the money and effort a sc station requires.

toqer · 23rd March 2005, 09:45

The topic will now be known as "UNST" Unmentionable Nullsoft saving thingamajig.

I legitimately need unsting for my show. I rip the live stream, then play it back when the bar is closed.

I'm the only one though. I haven't seen another live broadcasts like mine. So i'm like, the %1 that needs it.
It can't be against the DCMA for that reason. Just like bittorrent is legal because it can be used legitimately, so is unsting.

But forum rules are forum rules, this thread should be locked/moved like it never happened.

NJK · 23rd March 2005, 16:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Mission Radio
Ok, perhaps posting the IP was wrong of me. I wasn't thinking. *hold my hand out to be slapped*

As far as my station being 100% legal... not yet, but we're working on it. All the music we play either comes directly from the labels themselves or I have gone out to buy it. All I need are the licensing deals with BMI, ASCAP, SESAC and S.E. Mission Radio is a Christian station

-if you buy music on cd, it doesn't give you permission to play it on air!!! check the cd covers it cleary states that it's illegal to copy or broadcast the music.

SSJ4 Gogitta · 23rd March 2005, 16:39

Quote:

Originally posted by spaceplay
-if you buy music on cd, it doesn't give you permission to play it on air!!! check the cd covers it cleary states that it's illegal to copy or broadcast the music.

None of my CDs say "broadcast", but they do say, "Warning: unauthorized reproduction/duplication of this recording is prohibited by federal law and subject to criminal prosecution."

Schmeet · 23rd March 2005, 16:49

Quote:

Unauthorised copying, public performance, broadcasting, hiring or rental of this recording prohibited.

That's what it says on my CDs. I thought that applied to all CDs though.

SSJ4 Gogitta · 23rd March 2005, 16:52

Maybe the difference being that my CDs are from US artists and yours are from England? Maybe even same albums, but UK versions instead of US versions.

Schmeet · 23rd March 2005, 17:15

Hmmm, that's possible. It could be like a record company policy.

DuaneJeffers · 23rd March 2005, 18:20

Well, here is another thing to think about. Even though it is against the DMCA to rip streams, it is not illegal. There are legit programs out there that allow for copying off of internet radio (those streams that are allowed stream the music). It is because the RIAA and their licensing fee allows this. When the station pays for the license, it usually accounts for people tapping and recording. But there is a fine line behind that. Those people recording must use it for PERSONAL use only. If the distribute the song on P2P, it then is illegal.

Also, since you are running an Christian Radio station, I think that it would be good if someone copied a song because they may like it and may want to go out and buy the CD and give the Artists money (but those who use stream rippers are people who use them for bad and not for themselves).

-Duane

MegaRock · 23rd March 2005, 23:01

** think VCR **

morgado · 24th March 2005, 01:54

Quote:

Originally posted by MegaRock
** think VCR **

Said ...

Almost everyone used to use VCR Recording. Besides the ones that used that to sell tapes, does any other got arrested for that ?! I don't know any !1!

Mission Radio · 24th March 2005, 05:41

Quote:

Originally posted by spaceplay
-if you buy music on cd, it doesn't give you permission to play it on air!!! check the cd covers it cleary states that it's illegal to copy or broadcast the music.

As I said in an earlier post... I use SAM for my station automation. SAM users have been covered for years by a blanket license between Spacial*Audio Solutions and the RIAA as long as we own a licensed copy of the music, either on CD, tape, or vinyl. This deal may have gone out the window with CARP, but if you consider what virtually all of the broadcast terrestrial radio stations across the country (those with digital studios) do with their CD's in order to get them on the air, then what's the difference? You think they have stacks and stacks of CD's lining the walls? If they do, it's only for back-ups in case of a catastrophic server failure.

Mission Radio · 24th March 2005, 05:45

Quote:

Originally posted by t0qer
...for my show. I rip the live stream, then play it back when the bar is closed.

Somehow, since you own the content, I seriously doubt you could ever get in trouble for ripping your own stream.

EazMan · 24th March 2005, 21:02

Quote:

Originally posted by SSJ4 Gogitta
Maybe the difference being that my CDs are from US artists and yours are from England? Maybe even same albums, but UK versions instead of US versions.

both the us and uk are required to pay royalties, as are most countries.

CaboWaboAddict · 24th March 2005, 21:16

There are articles in several magazines this month regarding 'fair use'. It seems the courts have upheld it and it directly conflicts with the DMCA regarding ripping DVDs and such. We need a champion for the cause that has deep pockets to get this thing settled once and for all.

baafie · 26th March 2005, 16:41

Quote:

Originally posted by Mission Radio
Besides the fact that all of us that run stations here want to protect our content and playlists, the use of various streamripping software violates the DMCA in some fashion. Right?

I found someone from Germany using "sr-POSIX/1.60.13" according to my sc-server log on my 128k server. After I found out what it was, I immediately kicked and banned his/her IP.

Firstly, the DMCA does not apply to German citizens.

Secondly, as griffinn said, the DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent anti-piracy measures built into products. And although streams were not intended to be "ripped" (afaik), I'm not of the opinion that ripping a stream consitutes protection circumvention.

21st March 2005, 00:04	#1
Mission Radio Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 10	Use of streamrippers against DMCA? Besides the fact that all of us that run stations here want to protect our content and playlists, the use of various streamripping software violates the DMCA in some fashion. Right? I found someone from Germany using "sr-POSIX/1.60.13" according to my sc-server log on my 128k server. After I found out what it was, I immediately kicked and banned his/her IP.

21st March 2005, 01:24	#3
mikm Major Dude Join Date: May 2001 Location: somewhere else Posts: 1,286	Besides the fact that all of us that run computers here want to protect our privacy, the use of various hacking methods violates international law in some fashion. Right? powered by C₈H₁₀N₄O₂ Last edited by mikm; 21st March 2005 at 01:55.

21st March 2005, 01:53	#4
DuaneJeffers Major Dude Join Date: May 2001 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 1,776	That is correct. -Duane Website Yeah, that's pretty much it. :-\

21st March 2005, 02:06	#6
griffinn Court Jester (Forum King) Join Date: May 2000 Location: Your local toystore Posts: 3,501	DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent anti-piracy measures built into products. Shoutcast has no anti-piracy measures. The smiley slot machine! \| Quotable Blog

21st March 2005, 03:32	#7
shakey_snake Forum Domo Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Everyone, get over here for the picture! Posts: 4,313	O to laugh... Any time DRM comes up, it's best to have one of these around. elevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladyelevatorladylevitateme

21st March 2005, 01:55	#5
Germ rules all things Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 3,149	Duane how the hell do you know that ip belongs to another member of these forums? IP's aren't really private and personal either. That rule more applies for photographs, street address, phone numbers... that sort of thing.

21st March 2005, 05:30	#8
whiteflip Post Master General (Forum King) Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Seattle, Now Las Vegas Posts: 6,032	Re: Use of streamrippers against DMCA? You're being an ass. Do your own dirty work if you want to do something illegal and immoral. Banning his IP is sufficent enough. And yes Stream rippers circumvent methods of copyright protection which is a violation of the DMCA but since your listener is outside US jurisdiction the DMCA does not apply. German law maybe but international law most likely won't give you any leverage. I'm Back?

21st March 2005, 17:35	#13
drewbar Sawg 2.0 Major Dude Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,916	If you want to avoid stream ripping make sure you make it so people don't want to record your stream. Corss-fades, intro and end talk overs. The same stuff most radio stations use. If you are listening to the radio it wouldn't bother you. But if you are trying to cut a stream into individual MP3s, it will make it difficult and make the MP3s messed up. Count with us! Jan 1st, 12AM (PST, GMT -8) 2010 - 282,246

22nd March 2005, 11:34	#14
Mission Radio Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 10	Ok, perhaps posting the IP was wrong of me. I wasn't thinking. hold my hand out to be slapped As far as my station being 100% legal... not yet, but we're working on it. All the music we play either comes directly from the labels themselves or I have gone out to buy it. All I need are the licensing deals with BMI, ASCAP, SESAC and S.E. Mission Radio is a Christian station and views the fact that we get the majority of our music from major labels as a duty to see that thier artist's intelectual property is protected to the best of our ability. If this means that we are doing the RIAA a favor, then that's your opinion to which you're intitled to. While it is true that streamripping is VERY close to taping off FM, it does eat up a very valuable server slot that could be better used by someone who actually wants to listen. The only benefit that it has for me is that it ups my TTSL. But the fact that they may or may not be actually listening, in my mind, invalidates this benefit and would serve to make my actual numbers suspect to any potential advertiser should they ever find out that my listener base is full of streamrippers. This is the main reason that I feel it's our duty to combat this problem. I do use crossfading, as Drewbar suggested, by way of SAM3. And since we've only been online with this station for a little under a month, we're still working on getting fully staffed. I don't know if I want to be as big as Launchcast, but if that's what God has in mind for this station... then so be it. Know anyone who knows Christain music and wants to be part of a new ministry? Have them contact me and we'll talk.

22nd March 2005, 23:53	#15
EazMan Registered User Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Canada! Posts: 324	you'd be better off posting this in the sc forum. i do agree the posting the ip was a bad idea, how you people feel if someone was using youre station for illeagal purposes, especially after all the money and effort a sc station requires.

23rd March 2005, 09:45	#16
toqer Winamp's Little Stalker (Member) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: under a bridge Posts: 796	The topic will now be known as "UNST" Unmentionable Nullsoft saving thingamajig. I legitimately need unsting for my show. I rip the live stream, then play it back when the bar is closed. I'm the only one though. I haven't seen another live broadcasts like mine. So i'm like, the %1 that needs it. It can't be against the DCMA for that reason. Just like bittorrent is legal because it can be used legitimately, so is unsting. But forum rules are forum rules, this thread should be locked/moved like it never happened. Winamps Only Karaoke TV station, Live from the 7 Bamboo in San Jose California

23rd March 2005, 16:52	#20
SSJ4 Gogitta Followed by Gnomes (Forum King) Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: West Virginia Googolplex: 10^10¹°° FB:/SSJ4.DominusDeus DeviantArt: DominusDeus XboX GT: A Wild Meeseeks Playstation 4: DominusDeus Posts: 7,162	Maybe the difference being that my CDs are from US artists and yours are from England? Maybe even same albums, but UK versions instead of US versions.

23rd March 2005, 17:15	#21
Schmeet Major Dude Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: The timid west Posts: 1,444	Hmmm, that's possible. It could be like a record company policy.

23rd March 2005, 18:20	#22
DuaneJeffers Major Dude Join Date: May 2001 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 1,776	Well, here is another thing to think about. Even though it is against the DMCA to rip streams, it is not illegal. There are legit programs out there that allow for copying off of internet radio (those streams that are allowed stream the music). It is because the RIAA and their licensing fee allows this. When the station pays for the license, it usually accounts for people tapping and recording. But there is a fine line behind that. Those people recording must use it for PERSONAL use only. If the distribute the song on P2P, it then is illegal. Also, since you are running an Christian Radio station, I think that it would be good if someone copied a song because they may like it and may want to go out and buy the CD and give the Artists money (but those who use stream rippers are people who use them for bad and not for themselves). -Duane Website Yeah, that's pretty much it. :-\

23rd March 2005, 23:01	#23
MegaRock Forum King Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Inside my water bong Posts: 6,865	think VCR Megarock Radio - St. Louis Since 1998! Don't click this link! Corporate Radio Sucks! No suits, all rock!

24th March 2005, 21:16	#28
CaboWaboAddict Forum Sot (Major Dude) Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Marietta, Ga. U.S.A. Posts: 3,916	There are articles in several magazines this month regarding 'fair use'. It seems the courts have upheld it and it directly conflicts with the DMCA regarding ripping DVDs and such. We need a champion for the cause that has deep pockets to get this thing settled once and for all. Idiot's Advocate My site (under construction)

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