uploading (*not* streaming) a broadcast from behind a firewall

RadioInsomnia · 8th January 2001, 05:22

I searched the forums looking for someone who is in this type of networking and broadcasting setup, but didn't find anybody, so I hope I haven't overlooked something. If someone has already asked this, I apologize.

I'm attempting to upload a broadcast from my computer, which is behind a firewall. I want to upload that broadcast to a Live365 server on port 15258, but it gives me "error connecting to host". I also tried uploading the broadcast to a server of my own on port 8000, and it gives me the same error.

I don't understand this. In my mind, I should be able to (at the very least) simply send out a broadcast to another server, since the traffic is not two-way in this case (correct me if I'm wrong here). I'm not trying to get people to connect to my computer; I'm just trying to send data somewhere else, through a firewall.

Can somebody help me with this? Thanks in advance.

--
Tim Messer
tmesser@imsa.edu
tmesser@radioinsomnia.com

Jimbonator · 8th January 2001, 08:34

I could be wrong, but I think you're confused how Live365's relay services work. I'm assuming you're running a SHOUTcast server on your machine (which is behind a firewall) and you want Live365 to relay the stream.

Live365 connects to your server like any other listener. You need to punch a hole in your firewall.

RadioInsomnia · 8th January 2001, 09:18

No, I don't want to relay a broadcast. I just want to use Live365's broadcast service to send it out in the first place. Live365 offers relaying in addition to regular broadcasting, and I want to do the regular broadcast.

THEMike · 8th January 2001, 09:48

OK so your DSP plugin can't connect to the live365.com server or your own server correct?

Do you have server logs from the servers? Do you have any local logs?

Can you set up a small back up file on your server and tune into it from the broadcast machine? Can you connect to yourlive365server.itsportnumber in a web browser on that machine?

THEMike · 8th January 2001, 09:50

Oh yeah. And are the servers running? Sometimes the servers can shut down unexpectedly.

RadioInsomnia · 8th January 2001, 13:42

Server log:

<01/08/01@08:38:42> [SHOUTcast] DNAS/posix v1.8.0 (Jan 4 2001) starting up...
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] pid: 1132
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] loaded config from sc_serv.conf
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] initializing (usermax:32 portbase:8000)...
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] No ban file found (sc_serv.ban)
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] No rip file found (sc_serv.rip)
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] opening source socket
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] source thread starting
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] opening client socket
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] Client Stream thread [0] starting
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [source] listening for connection on port 8001
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] client main thread starting
<01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] dns thread starting
<01/08/01@08:41:30> [sleeping] 0 listeners (0 unique)

It sits there just like that, never creating any activity when I try to connect.

Yes, the servers were running.

Yes, I was able to set up a file and listen to it.

Yes, I was able to connect to my Live365 server with a Web browser window.

To me, all signs point to a firewall problem, but I don't understand why that would be the issue, and there's gotta be a way around it without getting my net admin to punch a hole in it. I'm only trying to send data out.

Jimbonator · 8th January 2001, 17:11

All right, I could be off-base here, but I'll step out on a limb.

If you're using SHOUTcast as your source, you're using Live365 as a relay server. If you're uploading your static content to Live365's servers (i.e. "EasyCast") or sending a live source stream to them (i.e. "LiveCast"), you shouldn't have a firewall problem.

But, SHOUTcast is in the mix here, and SHOUTcast is a server, not a client. Either punch that hole or don't use SHOUTcast.

RadioInsomnia · 9th January 2001, 01:59

I posted the server logs for diagnostic purposes. I don't plan to run my own server; I am trying to use Live365's LiveCast service. I just tried running my own server temporarily to see if I could send a stream to it from behind the firewall as opposed to sending it to Live365, to see if Live365 was having problems of some type.

Regardless, I still shouldn't have a firewall problem, so I'm baffled as to why it can't connect.

Jimbonator · 9th January 2001, 05:45

I've never heard of anyone using LiveCast to send a source stream to SHOUTcast. I'm not saying it can't be done, I've just never heard of it being done. Have you tried using the SHOUTcast DSP w/ Winamp to connect to the SHOUTcast server?

A separate question: if you're trying to connect to Live365's servers with Live365's software, why are you posting your question here?

I'm not trying to be purposely dense. Maybe you should start over, detailing what software you're using to do what, who's sending to whom, etc. Don't worry about streaming vs. uploading; with a firewall, the only issue is who's the client and who's the server, i.e. the direction of the connection sequence.

RadioInsomnia · 9th January 2001, 07:59

Here's what I'm trying to do:

The desired end result is to send an audio program using Winamp and the DSP plugin to Live365. The computer doing the broadcasting is located behind a firewall.

I'm following the directions on the Live365 site, using the server IP and port number given to me by them, and entering that into the DSP plugin configuration.

When I try to connect, I receive the message "error connecting to host".

Here's what I've tried:

I have checked to make sure the Live365 server is running by manually starting the server in the control panel on their Web site. I can connect to it both via telnetting to the port and by using a Web browser to connect to the port.

My first thought was that Live365 was messed up somewhow. I have a Linux box hosted elsewhere on a clear connection to the Internet, so I installed the SHOUTcast server there and attempted to send a stream to it using Winamp and the DSP plugin on the computer I want to use for broadcasting, which is located behind a firewall. Still the same "error connecting to host". The SHOUTcast server logs do not show any sign of me trying to send a stream to it.

PLEASE NOTE: This is the only time that the SHOUTcast server came into the mix. I have only used it for testing purposes; I do not plan to use it in the end, since Live365 will be doing my streaming.

The only thing that I can see as causing the error message is the firewall that the broadcast computer is behind. At the same time, this does not make any sense to me. To my knowledge, no two-way traffic is going on here; I'm just sending a broadcast and my streaming server (on a clear connection) is receiving it, then sending it out to all the listeners.

I can't do anything about the firewall. The network administrator will probably tell me to go to hell if I ask him to punch a hole in it, which, again, shouldn't need to be done anyway if my logic is correct here.

I hope that's more clear. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

THEMike · 9th January 2001, 08:34

Just to say I think I understood what you were doing from the start!

Ok so you can connect an HTTP download from the server, but the upload is proving to be an issue.

Now I know that when I connect to upload to an FTP site sometimes I have to download/upload in Passive mode because of the firewall, I can't just upload as normal.

I wonder if there is some nasty rule in your firewall that is stopping you from casting?

If you email me the ip/port/pass for your SHOUTcast server (on your linux machine) then I can try to connect to it myself to see if it's a configuration issue at your server, or an issue at your broadcast machine.

I don't know where you are casting from, if it is somewhere you can talk to the network administrator, and ask if he can monitor what is getting allowed and dropped to your box when you try and stream then you may be able to identify what is stopping it. (Your company/uni firewall may block large uploads to save it's bandwidth for example, ours does

)

I had to sit with our sysadmin and watch my machines traffic to identify how to blast the holes for SAM, then I found out SAM was a pile of shite anyway...

Jimbonator · 9th January 2001, 17:42

Okay, I think I'm on the same page now. You're using Winamp and the SHOUTcast DSP to connect to Live365's servers. You can telnet & browse the IP:port they've assigned you. You've turned on their server from their control panel.

The key here, in my opinion, is the telnet thing. This tells me it's not a firewall issue, as both the DSP and telnet both simply TCP clients. Since it sounds like the "bytes sent" count doesn't increment on the DSP, I don't think this is a bandwidth issue. The firewall could only block it once it sees heavy traffic on the connection, which isn't happening yet.

Random ideas:

- Working with your administrator might still be a good idea, if possible, especially if s/he has a packet sniffer.

- Can you hook a modem up to the machine? Not as a long-term solution, but it'll get the firewall out of the equation.

- Which version of Winamp and the DSP are you using? Nullsoft just released a new version, and the Live365 page mentions the old one, 1.1.

- Try setting up the SHOUTcast server on the same machine as your DSP. Again, to get the firewall out of the equation.

RadioInsomnia · 11th January 2001, 08:10

To answer your questions:

I'm using Winamp v2.71 and the DSP plugin v1.8.0.

I don't want to hook up a modem. I only have one phone line here, and since I have a direct Internet connection, I don't plan on getting another.

I was able to get the SHOUTcast server and DSP working together locally on my computer without a problem.

This continues to point to some type of firewall problem. Does the server where I'm sending my broadcast (in this case, Live365) need to send an acknowledgement of a successful connection back to my computer? If so, that's probably what's screwing me.

However, there is good news. It's very likely that ports above 1024 on the network firewall will soon be unblocked, so there is hope on the horizon.

Jimbonator · 11th January 2001, 22:49

The modem idea was just to get around the firewall. Can you try it at home, assuming you have a modem there?

Live365 doesn't use SHOUTcast, so getting it to work locally is good news, but not the end-all to this problem.

The firewalls I'm familiar with block connections, not traffic once the connection is established. So, since the DSP connects to the Live365 server, that should be okay (much like a Web browser connects to a Web server). Yes, the Live365/SHOUTcast server might send data back to the DSP, but my understanding is, it's only done when the DSP connects -- I could be wrong, I suppose.

Hopefully clearing out the ports > 1024 solves your problems.

RadioInsomnia · 14th January 2001, 08:26

Upon further investigation, it looks like the only port on the firewall that allows two-way direct connections is port 21.

I was able to get a friend to run a SHOUTcast server on port 21 on her machine, and I could send a stream to her system from mine without any kind of a problem. I tried ports 23, 25, 80, 7000 and 8000, but had no luck with any of those.

Looks like I'll be holding out for the firewall reconfig.

8th January 2001, 09:48	#4
THEMike Bastificator [Alumni] Join Date: May 2000 Location: #nullsoft Posts: 1,260	OK so your DSP plugin can't connect to the live365.com server or your own server correct? Do you have server logs from the servers? Do you have any local logs? Can you set up a small back up file on your server and tune into it from the broadcast machine? Can you connect to yourlive365server.itsportnumber in a web browser on that machine? "Beer?"

8th January 2001, 09:50	#5
THEMike Bastificator [Alumni] Join Date: May 2000 Location: #nullsoft Posts: 1,260	Oh yeah. And are the servers running? Sometimes the servers can shut down unexpectedly. "Beer?"

9th January 2001, 08:34	#11
THEMike Bastificator [Alumni] Join Date: May 2000 Location: #nullsoft Posts: 1,260	Just to say I think I understood what you were doing from the start! Ok so you can connect an HTTP download from the server, but the upload is proving to be an issue. Now I know that when I connect to upload to an FTP site sometimes I have to download/upload in Passive mode because of the firewall, I can't just upload as normal. I wonder if there is some nasty rule in your firewall that is stopping you from casting? If you email me the ip/port/pass for your SHOUTcast server (on your linux machine) then I can try to connect to it myself to see if it's a configuration issue at your server, or an issue at your broadcast machine. I don't know where you are casting from, if it is somewhere you can talk to the network administrator, and ask if he can monitor what is getting allowed and dropped to your box when you try and stream then you may be able to identify what is stopping it. (Your company/uni firewall may block large uploads to save it's bandwidth for example, ours does ) I had to sit with our sysadmin and watch my machines traffic to identify how to blast the holes for SAM, then I found out SAM was a pile of shite anyway... "Beer?"

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8th January 2001, 05:22	#1
RadioInsomnia Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10	I searched the forums looking for someone who is in this type of networking and broadcasting setup, but didn't find anybody, so I hope I haven't overlooked something. If someone has already asked this, I apologize. I'm attempting to upload a broadcast from my computer, which is behind a firewall. I want to upload that broadcast to a Live365 server on port 15258, but it gives me "error connecting to host". I also tried uploading the broadcast to a server of my own on port 8000, and it gives me the same error. I don't understand this. In my mind, I should be able to (at the very least) simply send out a broadcast to another server, since the traffic is not two-way in this case (correct me if I'm wrong here). I'm not trying to get people to connect to my computer; I'm just trying to send data somewhere else, through a firewall. Can somebody help me with this? Thanks in advance. -- Tim Messer tmesser@imsa.edu tmesser@radioinsomnia.com

8th January 2001, 08:34	#2
Jimbonator Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 37	I could be wrong, but I think you're confused how Live365's relay services work. I'm assuming you're running a SHOUTcast server on your machine (which is behind a firewall) and you want Live365 to relay the stream. Live365 connects to your server like any other listener. You need to punch a hole in your firewall.

8th January 2001, 09:18	#3
RadioInsomnia Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10	No, I don't want to relay a broadcast. I just want to use Live365's broadcast service to send it out in the first place. Live365 offers relaying in addition to regular broadcasting, and I want to do the regular broadcast.

8th January 2001, 13:42	#6
RadioInsomnia Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10	Server log: <01/08/01@08:38:42> [SHOUTcast] DNAS/posix v1.8.0 (Jan 4 2001) starting up... <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] pid: 1132 <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] loaded config from sc_serv.conf <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] initializing (usermax:32 portbase:8000)... <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] No ban file found (sc_serv.ban) <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] No rip file found (sc_serv.rip) <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] opening source socket <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] source thread starting <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] opening client socket <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] Client Stream thread [0] starting <01/08/01@08:38:42> [source] listening for connection on port 8001 <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] client main thread starting <01/08/01@08:38:42> [main] dns thread starting <01/08/01@08:41:30> [sleeping] 0 listeners (0 unique) It sits there just like that, never creating any activity when I try to connect. Yes, the servers were running. Yes, I was able to set up a file and listen to it. Yes, I was able to connect to my Live365 server with a Web browser window. To me, all signs point to a firewall problem, but I don't understand why that would be the issue, and there's gotta be a way around it without getting my net admin to punch a hole in it. I'm only trying to send data out.

8th January 2001, 17:11	#7
Jimbonator Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 37	All right, I could be off-base here, but I'll step out on a limb. If you're using SHOUTcast as your source, you're using Live365 as a relay server. If you're uploading your static content to Live365's servers (i.e. "EasyCast") or sending a live source stream to them (i.e. "LiveCast"), you shouldn't have a firewall problem. But, SHOUTcast is in the mix here, and SHOUTcast is a server, not a client. Either punch that hole or don't use SHOUTcast.

9th January 2001, 01:59	#8
RadioInsomnia Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10	I posted the server logs for diagnostic purposes. I don't plan to run my own server; I am trying to use Live365's LiveCast service. I just tried running my own server temporarily to see if I could send a stream to it from behind the firewall as opposed to sending it to Live365, to see if Live365 was having problems of some type. Regardless, I still shouldn't have a firewall problem, so I'm baffled as to why it can't connect.

9th January 2001, 05:45	#9
Jimbonator Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 37	I've never heard of anyone using LiveCast to send a source stream to SHOUTcast. I'm not saying it can't be done, I've just never heard of it being done. Have you tried using the SHOUTcast DSP w/ Winamp to connect to the SHOUTcast server? A separate question: if you're trying to connect to Live365's servers with Live365's software, why are you posting your question here? I'm not trying to be purposely dense. Maybe you should start over, detailing what software you're using to do what, who's sending to whom, etc. Don't worry about streaming vs. uploading; with a firewall, the only issue is who's the client and who's the server, i.e. the direction of the connection sequence.

9th January 2001, 07:59	#10
RadioInsomnia Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10	Here's what I'm trying to do: The desired end result is to send an audio program using Winamp and the DSP plugin to Live365. The computer doing the broadcasting is located behind a firewall. I'm following the directions on the Live365 site, using the server IP and port number given to me by them, and entering that into the DSP plugin configuration. When I try to connect, I receive the message "error connecting to host". Here's what I've tried: I have checked to make sure the Live365 server is running by manually starting the server in the control panel on their Web site. I can connect to it both via telnetting to the port and by using a Web browser to connect to the port. My first thought was that Live365 was messed up somewhow. I have a Linux box hosted elsewhere on a clear connection to the Internet, so I installed the SHOUTcast server there and attempted to send a stream to it using Winamp and the DSP plugin on the computer I want to use for broadcasting, which is located behind a firewall. Still the same "error connecting to host". The SHOUTcast server logs do not show any sign of me trying to send a stream to it. PLEASE NOTE: This is the only time that the SHOUTcast server came into the mix. I have only used it for testing purposes; I do not plan to use it in the end, since Live365 will be doing my streaming. The only thing that I can see as causing the error message is the firewall that the broadcast computer is behind. At the same time, this does not make any sense to me. To my knowledge, no two-way traffic is going on here; I'm just sending a broadcast and my streaming server (on a clear connection) is receiving it, then sending it out to all the listeners. I can't do anything about the firewall. The network administrator will probably tell me to go to hell if I ask him to punch a hole in it, which, again, shouldn't need to be done anyway if my logic is correct here. I hope that's more clear. Sorry for any misunderstanding.

9th January 2001, 17:42	#12
Jimbonator Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 37	Okay, I think I'm on the same page now. You're using Winamp and the SHOUTcast DSP to connect to Live365's servers. You can telnet & browse the IP:port they've assigned you. You've turned on their server from their control panel. The key here, in my opinion, is the telnet thing. This tells me it's not a firewall issue, as both the DSP and telnet both simply TCP clients. Since it sounds like the "bytes sent" count doesn't increment on the DSP, I don't think this is a bandwidth issue. The firewall could only block it once it sees heavy traffic on the connection, which isn't happening yet. Random ideas: - Working with your administrator might still be a good idea, if possible, especially if s/he has a packet sniffer. - Can you hook a modem up to the machine? Not as a long-term solution, but it'll get the firewall out of the equation. - Which version of Winamp and the DSP are you using? Nullsoft just released a new version, and the Live365 page mentions the old one, 1.1. - Try setting up the SHOUTcast server on the same machine as your DSP. Again, to get the firewall out of the equation.

11th January 2001, 08:10	#13
RadioInsomnia Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10	To answer your questions: I'm using Winamp v2.71 and the DSP plugin v1.8.0. I don't want to hook up a modem. I only have one phone line here, and since I have a direct Internet connection, I don't plan on getting another. I was able to get the SHOUTcast server and DSP working together locally on my computer without a problem. This continues to point to some type of firewall problem. Does the server where I'm sending my broadcast (in this case, Live365) need to send an acknowledgement of a successful connection back to my computer? If so, that's probably what's screwing me. However, there is good news. It's very likely that ports above 1024 on the network firewall will soon be unblocked, so there is hope on the horizon.

11th January 2001, 22:49	#14
Jimbonator Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Silicon Valley, CA Posts: 37	The modem idea was just to get around the firewall. Can you try it at home, assuming you have a modem there? Live365 doesn't use SHOUTcast, so getting it to work locally is good news, but not the end-all to this problem. The firewalls I'm familiar with block connections, not traffic once the connection is established. So, since the DSP connects to the Live365 server, that should be okay (much like a Web browser connects to a Web server). Yes, the Live365/SHOUTcast server might send data back to the DSP, but my understanding is, it's only done when the DSP connects -- I could be wrong, I suppose. Hopefully clearing out the ports > 1024 solves your problems.

14th January 2001, 08:26	#15
RadioInsomnia Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 10	Upon further investigation, it looks like the only port on the firewall that allows two-way direct connections is port 21. I was able to get a friend to run a SHOUTcast server on port 21 on her machine, and I could send a stream to her system from mine without any kind of a problem. I tried ports 23, 25, 80, 7000 and 8000, but had no luck with any of those. Looks like I'll be holding out for the firewall reconfig.