Winamp Agent TSR

[ElmoTheGreat]

I have a question about the winamp quick-start agent (WINAMPa.EXE). Specifically; why does the TSR remain active as a running task, even though the agent is disabled in the Winamp settings?

The reason I ask, is because the TSR constantly writes data to the hard drive, effectively preventing defrag from running.

It took me a while to pinpoint the TSR as the cause, so I didn't bother to trace further to discover what data is actually being written. I simply removed the run command from the registry to prevent the TSR from loading. I figured it might be easier to ask what necessary task this TSR might be performing, rather than go through the exhaustive process of finding out for myself. Especially since the program seems to load faster, and run better without the TSR loaded. Also (as is the case with the RealPlayer agent) I have less trouble with other programs crashing when the TSR is not resident.

If this TSR was intended to be part of a quick-load routine, then it is ultimately failing in it's intended purpose. If it is tracking my activities, then I am NOT amused! If it is in fact performing some necessary function, then I think that someone should look into a different method of performing this process, since it is affecting a critical windows function.

Please reply with any information you may have.

Thank you,

Elmo

[Reverend Ike]

Elmo -

I believe the information that Agent writes to disk is only related to the filetypes that are to be associated with Winamp, since this feature was introduced at the time Real Player was becoming increasingly obnoxious about stealing those associations. Since Agent can usually be easily disabled, it makes no sense for it to be part of an information-gathering setup. Winamp's only "phone home" features involve the typical "check for new versions" option, as well as a silly statistical "usage" report (which smells of AOL's insatiable appetite for advertising saturation).

From a technical viewpoint, it has been pointed out by others, such as Ice, that the maintenance of file associations can be accomplished without writing to disk. The benefits of disk-writing (presumably speed?) are far out-weighed by the drawbacks (interference with ScanDisk and Disk Defragmenter).

One of my biggest problems with Agent is the sloppy way it is represented as a default option during the installation process. It is pre-selected as an option and is not referred to as Agent; there is only a vague reference to "protecting your filetypes" or something similar. The majority of users, especially newbies, are going to leave this option checked without knowing any detailed information.

My second problem with Agent is the lack of any warning to users regarding its effects on the SD and DD utilities. I can't believe those effects were not discovered during beta-testing when Agent was originally introduced. It is even more unbelievable that upgrade after upgrade have been introduced without reprogramming Agent or even adding a basic warning that it needs to be disabled before running SD or DD.

Lastly, there are a few people (including yourself apparently) that have some problem with getting winampa.exe to "leave" once it is disabled. I think this is more of a Windows OS or Registry problem and is always solved (as far as I know) by de-selecting all the Agent checkboxes, closing Winamp, end-tasking winampa if it still running, and then deleting or renaming winampa.exe. The only thing you (or someone else who has this problem) might check is whether the problem resurfaces when Winamp is re-installed.

Another respected member (Tom) has mentioned several arguments with the developers regarding this well-intentioned but poorly executed "feature". In view of Tom's input, as well as the number of users we have had to assist in the past few months, I would certainly hope that the Winamp developers are smart enough to properly fix the Agent subprogram before Winamp 3.0 is released.

[Tom]

Rev,
Has anyone cornered Brennan and got an answer about this in Winamp 3 yet?

[Reverend Ike]

Tom -

Not that I've heard. I always put my two cents worth in every time I answer one of these Agent posts, but none of the development team has risen to the bait and responded.

Perhaps you'd like to do the honors, since you've discussed this topic with those guys (Steve and/or Brennan?) before ...?

[Tom]

Okay, I sent it. I referenced this thread so we might get the reply in here.

Tom

[Brennan]

Justin tells me he's going to fix the interfering-with-scandisk behavior in a new version of 2.x. There has been no discussion as of yet as to agent-like behaviour in 3.x. Personally, I don't like agents like that, but I like Real's stealing associations even less... Dunno. At the very least I'll give the agent a different icon so you don't end up with two winamp logos in your tray all the time.

For users with very large song dbs, we might eventually add an option to keep it in memory to speed up start times... we'll see how that goes. I dunno, I always leave a copy running so that does me no good anyway.


Brennan

[ElmoTheGreat]

Ok, so what I'm inferring here is that the agent only exists as a counter-measure to the Real Player agent.

Ok, so then the "Newbies" are going to be presented with a machine who's stability is suffering as a result of an ongoing internal struggle for associative "rule".

Has anyone pointed this out to the wonderful folks at real.com?

If not, I'm on my way there right now...

[Winsane]

This from the whatsnew.txt from Winamp v2.72:

* made Winamp Agent smaller, use less memory, not interfere with ScanDisk, etc.

[Reverend Ike]

... also, when I installed Winamp 2.72, Agent was not pre-selected as part of the standard installation, which I believe is a change from previous versions.

However, I didn't bother to check the various installation configurations, so this may not be true for all editions and all configurations.

Elmo -

Like I tried to explain in my mini-novel above, the Winamp Agent is fairly benign, and doesn't really affect system stability, except for its interference with ScanDisk and Disk Defragmenter in versions 2.71 and earlier. Those few people who encounter a "stuck" winampa.exe (such as yourself, unfortunately) are very few. That situation appears to be partly the fault of the OS, the user's startup configuration, how the user upgrades each new version, how the user specifically went about disabling Agent, etc. - variables which differ from case to case. And, even so, it is usually easy to delete.

I am not a big fan of Agent, especially its non-documentation but, all in all, it is far less insidious than Real Player's multi-level gimmicks designed to trap and manipulate their users.

[Brennan]

Yeah, what he said. Plus we openly love you and they secretly hate you.


--Brennan

[Reverend Ike]

Oops, I better be more unconditionally positive; never know who's lurking about ...

[ElmoTheGreat]

Sorry about the lack of clarity.

Yes, I'm already well-aware of RealPlayer agent as a cause of grief. Ever since it first popped up, I've made it a rule to disable it on every machine I've worked on. Not so much for the stealing of file associations, but just because it hogs resources. Anything that hogs resources affects stability. I've been doing that for the better part of a year now.

I know that Winamp agent doesn't hog resources like Real Player, but it still has effect. I was more concerned about the effect winampa.exe has on scandisk/defrag, than anything else. For this reason, I've added it to my list of "standard procedures" to disable the agent altogether. My last crusade was against using Windows Media Player 7 altogether. Talk about resource hogs...

Of course, I had to throw my two-cents in on the realnetworks forum. Even wrote a rather lengthy letter to the RNAdmin (although I doubt I'll get any response) about the battle that has insued for file-dominance. I just don't want to see the day when I have to refuse a customer service because he/she has a particular player installed on his/her machine. That just seems a bit ridiculous to me.

All that aside, I guess I'd have to say I'm just a performance junkie. That, and I like to have certain things happen automatically. I prefer to run defrag and scandisk as scheduled tasks, since my machines are online constantly. But I can't do that with the agent(s) running.

And you wouldn't believe how many calls I get saying: "Scandisk says it restarted 10 times... what do I do", or "defrag just sits there, and won't do anything". The pat response is: "Close everything except Explorer and Systray, and then run it". I just don't feel anybody should really have to do that.

I think the disabling problem is an issue in Windows ME, since the winampa.exe does seem to unload properly on my Win98 machines. Still, I don't see a need for it, as long as there's nothing competing for associations. I use Winamp for all audio files, and as long as I keep RP and WIMP out of the picture, I genrally don't have any problem with programs stealing their associations. And Windows ME was nice enough to include an "Open With" option to the right click menu. This has saved me alot of grief with the newbies already.

Now, if we could just get multiple file icons...

Ok I'll shut up now. :-)

[Winsane]

Originally posted by ElmoTheGreat
Now, if we could just get multiple file icons...

Yeah, that'd be nice. Hopefully Winamp 3 will automatically assign the DLLs' icons to the file types associated with each input plug-in, and make it easy for developers and users to further customize the icons and file types. But in the meantime, you can manually change the icons and filetype names (sloppily via Folder Options.../File Types, or more cleanly via a registry editor). Right now, I've got a little Bowser icon for my NSFs, a Sonic the Hedgehog icon for my GYMs, a Megaman icon for my CYMs, a different Winamp icon for my zipped MIDIs, a ModPlug-related icon for my MODs, and a SNES controller icon for my SPCs, and all the file types set to open in Winamp.

[ElmoTheGreat]

I tried changing icons individually through the explorer, but when I change one, they all change. I leafed through the file extension list in the registry, but didn't see any default icon entries. Where are they in the registry?

[Winsane]

Each file extension key in the registry usually has a default value pointing to a file type. For each of the file extensions you've got associated with Winamp, the default value should currently be set to "Winamp.File" (or "Winamp.SkinZip" for WSZ files, or "Winamp.PlayList" for M3U and PLS files). If you scroll down (under HKEY_CLASSES_ROOT) to the Winamp.File key, you'll find it has a default value of "Winamp media file" (which is what causes the files to be identified as "Winamp media file"s in the details view in Windows Explorer) and a subkey named "DefaultIcon" with a default value of something like "C:\PROGRAM FILES\WINAMP\WINAMP.EXE,#" (where #=some number). To change the icons (and the filetype name) for certain file types, you need to create a new file type. For example, if you want to change it for MIDI files, you might create a new key named "Winamp.FileMIDI" (that way, it'll be right below the original Winamp.File key). Then, copy all the subkeys and their strings and values from the Winamp.File key to the new Winamp.FileMIDI key, so that they're identical except for the key name. Then set the default value for Winamp.FileMIDI to whatever you want, such as "MIDI file". And then change the default value for the "DefaultIcon" key to whatever you want--you could choose one of Winamp's other built-in icons by simply changing the number after the path to winamp.exe, or you could point it to one of your *.ico icon files, or to another executable or icon library (with the format "[path\filename],#" where the # specifies which of the icons to use). (Choosing the icon may be easier to do via Folder Options.../File Types, so you can browse around and see which icon you're selecting.)
Then you just need to go back to the file extension of the file types you want to change, and set the default value to the name of your new file type key (e.g. change the default value for the ".mid" key from "Winamp.File" to "Winamp.FileMIDI"). Then you should be all set.

Oh, and remember, don't mess with the registry if you're not sure what you're doing. Always either ask for more help/clarification, or just leave it alone. If necessary, I (or someone else) could also give you instructions for how to change the icons via Folder Options.../File Types without changing the icon for all Winamp's file types (though at the moment I'm too busy/lazy to do so).

[ElmoTheGreat]

Thanks for the info, Winsane. Also good for more than just changing winamp icons. Definitely a new addition to my Windows tweaking library.

Oh by the way... kids, don't try this at home!

[johny c]

I found an easy way to change the icons so that you dont have to go into the registry .Just untick the file type in Winamp and then go to Folder Options > File Types and set the Mid,Wav or whatever types to be Played with Winamp & Enqueque with Winamp and set them up with there own icons .I like the default window icons .I've had no trouble and had different icons for ages .I use the Winamp icon for Mp3's SAY NO MORE .

[HardRane]

For mp3 icons that tell you the bitrate , get MP3Ext

http://odin.mutschler.de/mp3ext/

The Best...

[ElmoTheGreat]

Very cool utility!

[Winsane]

Yup. 'Cept that it slows down the icon loading quite a bit, and turning off the icon-changing option returns the icons' appearance to normal but doesn't fix the slow-loading. To fix that (while keeping the MP3 tooltips and the property sheet add-on), you do have to mess with the registry. You also need to mess with the registry if you want to make all those features work with just MP3s, but not all the other file types you have associated with Winamp. Think I'll e-mail the author about those two problems this weekend.

[ElmoTheGreat]

Hadn't noticed that much of a slowdown (some). But, I got a fast machine; and I keep all my music sorted by artist into individual folders, so there's never a whole lot to load at one time. I guess it would be a problem, if you had one big folder full. Still, it's faster than loading a folder full of image thumbnails.

I like the way it works, but I think the default icon is ugly. Have to change that one. Maybe give us a selection.

I already changed my other file-type icons (via your suggested method), so I guess I won't have much trouble with other types getting the same icon. But I can see how that might be a problem for others.

[ElmoTheGreat]

Winsane, I see what you mean about "Not keeping the same options for other file types" I thought you meant icons, until I went looking around. Found out I get an Mp3 tag editor for everything! LOL

Guess I can label all my atari sound files now! LOL

[Winsane]

If you think MP3ext's default icon set is ugly, you can easily change it. There's a bunch of different themes on MP3ext's website, and if you don't like any of those, you can make your own theme.