Multiple IP Addresses Hitting One Server

NightAire · 6th January 2006, 05:02

I'm trying to figure out a way to create a "fail-safe" system for Shoutcast.

My thought is to have two connections, such as a cable modem and a DSL connection. One would be hooked to my router, the other to a second network card on the streaming machine (since the second connection would only be used as a backup).

Obviously these two connections would have two separate IP addresses.

I want to create the equivalent of an M3U file for the Shoutcast server where, if one IP address stops sending (fails), Shoutcast would pick up with the second. If that one fails, it would try to kick back to the first address again.

I don't want to use the "ANY" feature in Shoutcast because I don't want just anybody to be able to get in and stream on it.

Is there any way to specify multiple IPs? And maybe a timeout length for switching over?

Lastly, how would this sound to the listener? Would they be able to stay connected?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Gene Savage
BlackLight Radio
http://www.blacklightradio.com
Tulsa, Oklahoma USA

fc*uk · 8th January 2006, 19:35

I think you are looking at this the wrong way. What you really want to do is play around with the nic binding on the back end of things. However, if you are using windows as your hosting OS, I would advise strongly against network card binding of any sort. Windows just sucks and can not handle that well.

Let us know if you are going to try to be brave and bind your two nics. I may be able to be of some further help to you.

NightAire · 8th January 2006, 19:53

lol... about the time I think I know what I'm doing in internet radio, somebody throws out a term like "binding nics." ;-)

Let me do some research, make sure I understand what you're suggesting, and then I'll let you know if I'm dumb enough to actually try it.

Thanks for the reply, though! At least I know it might be possible to do what I'm thinking about... time to go get some learnin'... I'll let you know what I find out...

NightAire · 8th January 2006, 20:43

OK, I think I generally have the idea: binding two cards together gives the single machine more bandwidth, and if one card goes down data continues on the other card.

I'm not sure that's really solving the problem I'm having, though... my machine seems plenty stable, it's my connection to the internet that's the problem.

Just to complicate things, what I thought was originally going to be the setup, looks like isn't going to be the setup. Originally I thought I'd just be hosting the encoder here and we'd hit my provider's Shoutcast server. Apparently, though, I'll have the server on my machine locally (like it is currently) and they will simply "relay" the stream. What I DON'T know is how they'll be relaying it... guess I oughta ask.

Here's part of what they said in a recent email to me:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The only way to make your dual connection work in a redundant fasion with shoutcast, that I can think of, would be to use a Windows 2000 Pro, Windows XP Pro or Server 2003 machine with dual NIC's, each obtaining an IP from different ISPs.

For the failover to work properly, you would need to "push" the stream to us, rather than us "pull" or "relay" the stream off of you. Shoutcast "pushes" by default, in otherwords, connects "out" from your end to the server.

When an interface fails, the stream will continue to push out through another interface, seamlessly to us, as the IP of the outgoing stream will not change, regardless of which interface fails. There may be a few seconds of lag as things fail over, but it should be pretty quick.

The problem with setting up servers on multiple IP addresses, is that if something fails, the server on this end would need to be manually reconfigured to "pull" the stream from an alternative IP. There is no automatic way about this, without alot of custom code.

If you want redundancy with two connections, the only way to do so is to "push" the stream to us.

Otherwise if you decide to run your own DNAS and have us relay it, it would require a static IP, and if you had two connections, it would not be redundant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MegaRock · 8th January 2006, 22:43

Quote:

Originally posted by NightAire
Just to complicate things, what I thought was originally going to be the setup, looks like isn't going to be the setup. Originally I thought I'd just be hosting the encoder here and we'd hit my provider's Shoutcast server. Apparently, though, I'll have the server on my machine locally (like it is currently) and they will simply "relay" the stream. What I DON'T know is how they'll be relaying it... guess I oughta ask.

That's actually kinda confusing. If you have a hosted server you should be able to feed right into it but the alternative is for the provider to relay off of it to their servers. Basically all that entails is their server will connect into your local server as a listener and rebroadcasts the feed from their server but I'm still not sure why you would not just feed directly to their server.

As far as the rest of what I've read it's almost more trouble that it's worth to bind the nic's and such. It's easier to have two seperate servers in two locations and a feed from the DSP headed to each. That's about as redundant as you're going to get.

NightAire · 8th January 2006, 23:06

Well, I just found out for sure that they can relay my stream either way... and that me having two nic cards feeding two internet connections apparently WILL work to do what I'm wanting to do.

I'm honestly not worried about their server at all... I picked them because they've had a down time of about two hours over the entire past 365 days... it's ME I'm worried about... although things have been pretty stable lately, my ISP has in the past gone down repeatedly and for long periods of time.

Top that off with my old server / provider going down repeatedly and for long periods of time... it's a wonder I have any listeners at ALL.

This is the year that we're going "commercial." My hope is to even get just a few advertisers to sign up with us. And if we can't be up 99.999% of the time, listeners won't listen and advertisers won't advertise.

I belive you all have helped me understand and solve this issue; thank you very much!!!

See you on the radio,
Gene Savage

6th January 2006, 05:02	#1
NightAire Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owasso, Oklahoma USA Posts: 20	Multiple IP Addresses Hitting One Server I'm trying to figure out a way to create a "fail-safe" system for Shoutcast. My thought is to have two connections, such as a cable modem and a DSL connection. One would be hooked to my router, the other to a second network card on the streaming machine (since the second connection would only be used as a backup). Obviously these two connections would have two separate IP addresses. I want to create the equivalent of an M3U file for the Shoutcast server where, if one IP address stops sending (fails), Shoutcast would pick up with the second. If that one fails, it would try to kick back to the first address again. I don't want to use the "ANY" feature in Shoutcast because I don't want just anybody to be able to get in and stream on it. Is there any way to specify multiple IPs? And maybe a timeout length for switching over? Lastly, how would this sound to the listener? Would they be able to stay connected? Thanks in advance for your help! Gene Savage BlackLight Radio http://www.blacklightradio.com Tulsa, Oklahoma USA

8th January 2006, 19:35	#2
fcuk Moderator* Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Atlantic Beach Posts: 8,140	I think you are looking at this the wrong way. What you really want to do is play around with the nic binding on the back end of things. However, if you are using windows as your hosting OS, I would advise strongly against network card binding of any sort. Windows just sucks and can not handle that well. Let us know if you are going to try to be brave and bind your two nics. I may be able to be of some further help to you. Trancectro/electro-house/electro \| Are You Hard?

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8th January 2006, 19:53	#3
NightAire Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owasso, Oklahoma USA Posts: 20	lol... about the time I think I know what I'm doing in internet radio, somebody throws out a term like "binding nics." ;-) Let me do some research, make sure I understand what you're suggesting, and then I'll let you know if I'm dumb enough to actually try it. Thanks for the reply, though! At least I know it might be possible to do what I'm thinking about... time to go get some learnin'... I'll let you know what I find out...

8th January 2006, 20:43	#4
NightAire Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owasso, Oklahoma USA Posts: 20	OK, I think I generally have the idea: binding two cards together gives the single machine more bandwidth, and if one card goes down data continues on the other card. I'm not sure that's really solving the problem I'm having, though... my machine seems plenty stable, it's my connection to the internet that's the problem. Just to complicate things, what I thought was originally going to be the setup, looks like isn't going to be the setup. Originally I thought I'd just be hosting the encoder here and we'd hit my provider's Shoutcast server. Apparently, though, I'll have the server on my machine locally (like it is currently) and they will simply "relay" the stream. What I DON'T know is how they'll be relaying it... guess I oughta ask. Here's part of what they said in a recent email to me: ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ The only way to make your dual connection work in a redundant fasion with shoutcast, that I can think of, would be to use a Windows 2000 Pro, Windows XP Pro or Server 2003 machine with dual NIC's, each obtaining an IP from different ISPs. For the failover to work properly, you would need to "push" the stream to us, rather than us "pull" or "relay" the stream off of you. Shoutcast "pushes" by default, in otherwords, connects "out" from your end to the server. When an interface fails, the stream will continue to push out through another interface, seamlessly to us, as the IP of the outgoing stream will not change, regardless of which interface fails. There may be a few seconds of lag as things fail over, but it should be pretty quick. The problem with setting up servers on multiple IP addresses, is that if something fails, the server on this end would need to be manually reconfigured to "pull" the stream from an alternative IP. There is no automatic way about this, without alot of custom code. If you want redundancy with two connections, the only way to do so is to "push" the stream to us. Otherwise if you decide to run your own DNAS and have us relay it, it would require a static IP, and if you had two connections, it would not be redundant. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

8th January 2006, 23:06	#6
NightAire Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Owasso, Oklahoma USA Posts: 20	Well, I just found out for sure that they can relay my stream either way... and that me having two nic cards feeding two internet connections apparently WILL work to do what I'm wanting to do. I'm honestly not worried about their server at all... I picked them because they've had a down time of about two hours over the entire past 365 days... it's ME I'm worried about... although things have been pretty stable lately, my ISP has in the past gone down repeatedly and for long periods of time. Top that off with my old server / provider going down repeatedly and for long periods of time... it's a wonder I have any listeners at ALL. This is the year that we're going "commercial." My hope is to even get just a few advertisers to sign up with us. And if we can't be up 99.999% of the time, listeners won't listen and advertisers won't advertise. I belive you all have helped me understand and solve this issue; thank you very much!!! See you on the radio, Gene Savage