writing mp3 to cd-r, help please

[misswicks]

Hi

Apologies for my rather simple question. I need to get a lot of music off of one computer and on to another. I am busy converting my wma files into mp3 but i just noticed that the file size of the newly converted mp3's is bigger than the wma. I was planning on writing the mp3's onto a cd-r so i could get more on a disk and moving them to the other computer like that. What size should the mp3's be in order to get a lot on each cd-r? I am planning on loading the mp3s onto itunes once they have been moved from the current computer. So I guess i should also ask, what size (bit, quality) do they need to be in order to play on a portable mp3 player (ipod) at a good quality?

Any help would be greatly appreciated right now!

Thanks,

Donna

[Vie]

Your better off using the original CD and coding to MP3 (Or a better format like Ogg Vorbis) than transcoding from wma. For a start Transcoding is AWFUL for sound quality, all the small artifacts from the original file will be copied on top of the artifacts in the new file.

Second wma is the worst audio format currently known, for a large number of reasons. The only reason to use wma is at very low bitrates, were talking telephone quality sound, and even then there are formats that do it better.

Unfortunatly for you, alternative formats to mp3 (or iTunes own formats) are not available on the iPod (Hence why there not that well liked). But none the less mp3's encoded with LAME at 256kps should be of good enough quality to be listenable, and still give a good balence of space'v'quality.

[MonKeyRum]

There are a couple of things off here...

Why would you convert from wma to mp3? I'm assuming you did a lossy encode to wma only to do another one to mp3...

Why couldn't you just burn your wma's out to a disk as data and then copy them in? You wouldn't have to do any conversion then.

The best option would be networking the two PC's and then just moving the files, otherwise pulling out the HD from the old one and adding it to the new one.


Do you have the original CD's you can just rip them to the new one?

[mysterious_w]

[misswicks]

thanks

unfortunately all the songs i have are in wma format because they are off of napster. I am trying to get them into mp3 so i can load them into itunes. But I also want to get the songs off of the computer they are on. So I would like to know what is an acceptable size for an mp3 file, one where the quality is still good but will allow me to get a lot of mp3 song files onto a cd?

[mysterious_w]

Napster? As in the new napster?

Oh lord, I'll leave this for one of you guys.

[rockouthippie]

Minimum you should use 128kbps mp3. And never buy music from the online guys. Buy the CD and rip it.

MP3 is kind of a crappy audio compressor, so the more bandwidth the better.

If you really didn't care, you can use 96kbps, below that is awful.

Even at 128kbps MP3 is only about 85% quality....

[misswicks]

rockouthippie - thank you, thats what i wanted to know.

mysterious w - i would be grateful if you could recommend how i download music and load it into itunes and get to keep it without renewing my subscription every month? I realise i sound like an idiot, but i am trying.

[ScorLibran]

If you're going to transcode from WMA to MP3, use a moderately high bitrate to avoid a preponderance transcoding artifacts.

And by the way...transcoding lossy-to-lossy is generally not good for sound quality, but it's not as bad as many people portray. I challenge anyone to ABX any nominal WMA bitrate (128 or higher) against WMA --> LAME MP3 using --alt-preset standard. You'd be surprised at the level of perceptual transparency between the original WMA file and the WMA-to-MP3 transcode.

LAME "--alt-preset standard" utilizes a superior psychoacoustic audio encoder which generates a VBR (variable bitrate) audio file. It's the best balance between bitrate (which determines file size) and sound quality in a format that is ubiquitously compatible.

So my recommendation - since you have to transcode to MP3 and you don't have the CDs from which to start fresh - is to transcode them using the LAME MP3 encoder with the "--alt-preset standard" setting. The average bitrate is 200-220 kbps, and the average file size for a 4-minute song is about 7 MB. So on a 700 MB CDR you can fit about 100 songs. With a lower bitrate - like 128kbps - you can fit more like 160 songs on the disc, but sound quality will begin to suffer noticeably with a transcode. I recommend sticking with --alt-preset standard.

The easiest way to do this is to use dBpowerAMP Music Converter. After installing it, download and install the WMA codec (choose "WMA v9.1 Codec Release 1"). Then right click on your music files, select "Convert To...", select "MP3 LAME", select "Advanced Options", and then select "Preset: Quality - Alt Preset Standard". Note the other options you can use as well, such as preserving ID tags and specifying the target folder for converted files. Then click "Convert >>".

[mysterious_w]

Won't the DRM scupper any transcode attempts?

[CraigF]

yes. and if there wasnt drm, you could do it all with winamp+essentials rather than dbpooramp

[EfaustuS9]

Please choose that which appeals to you most.

A)album w 14 compressed DRM infected tracks from online retailer = $14
B)album w 14 uncompressed high fidelity tracks from local retailer = $12
C)find album using google, torrent, or a P2p = $0 + potential frustration of finding the album, downloading the album and fending off viral infections.

Hummmmm

[k_rock923]

B, mostly. I don't mind at all paying for good albums and to be honest, $12 is pretty reasonable for a bunch of songs that i'm going to be able to listen to for years and years.

[rockouthippie]

I really wish you could order online music that wasn't buggered. I'd go from buying none to buying a lot.

So much for DRM.

If you got a fast computer, and I think I remember you did rock?. I rip everything to flac, which gives about 2/3 compression over PCM and it's flawless, then I make CD's or MP3s for my players at will.

These new computers are so bleeding ultra fast, that re-encoding from very decode friendly flac isn't a problem.

[EfaustuS9]

Originally posted by k_rock923
B, mostly. I don't mind at all paying for good albums and to be honest, $12 is pretty reasonable for a bunch of songs that i'm going to be able to listen to for years and years.

and the Grail Knight says....


"You have chosen... wisely"

[misswicks]

Thanks for all the comments. While I do agree that buying albums is a better option, if you looking for a lot of music it does become expensive. The route I have taken (as a trial) is certainly not the easiest but I am learning as I go. I pay monthly for Napster and I paid a license fee for the wma converter. So I hope that part of the money these companies are making is going back to the artists (well thats what the public is lead to believe). And considering its all legal and paid for, you shouldn't be getting files that are infected with all sorts, you would hope not.

Thanks for all the advice. I played around a bit and decided it was best to go with about 220 or 320 kbps to get great quality on the ipod, and just deal with large file sizex. I have loaded a fair bit onto my ipod and the quality is great. At least I now have another option in addition to loading my bought ambums.

[InvisableMan]

Originally posted by misswicks
... So I hope that part of the money these companies are making is going back to the artists...

Not usually. Even when it does, not much.

[ScorLibran]

Originally posted by misswicks
Thanks for all the advice. I played around a bit and decided it was best to go with about 220 or 320 kbps to get great quality on the ipod, and just deal with large file sizex. I have loaded a fair bit onto my ipod and the quality is great. At least I now have another option in addition to loading my bought ambums.

320kbps will be a waste of space. You will not be able to discern any difference in sound quality between --alt-preset standard ("--aps") - which is about 210kbps - and 320kbps.

320kbps encoding will produce files that take 50% more hard drive space than --aps, with no perceptible difference in sound quality.

[misswicks]

ScorLibran - thanks, I had heard 320 kbps wouldn't make a difference so I converted a few at 320 and 220 and loaded them on the ipod just to make sure. I found the quality on most rates (kbps) was fine when played back on the pc but when loaded onto the ipod (as with all poratable devices I would think) the quality was much worse.

InvisableMan - I would like to think they get something out of it, otherwise what was all the fuss in making Napster a paid for service, why not just leave them as being free.

[Vie]

Erm, the fuss was not made by artists, it was made by the middle men. Thats whom the RIAA represent, not artists.

Sure with the old napster both the middle men and the artists were screwed over, now just the Artists are screwed over so the RIAA shut up.

[Mattress]

Originally posted by rockouthippie
I really wish you could order online music that wasn't buggered. I'd go from buying none to buying a lot.

http://www.calabashmusic.com/
dollar per song
artists gets half of the purchase price
no DRM
MP3 format
if your compy dies you can re-download music you have purchased from them.

[germain47]

An interesting topic for sure. Here are my personal quidelines. I'd be interested to hear your comments.

Online Downloading
1] Avoid at all costs downloads encrypted with DRM.
You severly limit your flexibility to do with your
music as you need.
2] Download flac or other lossless formats.
Many people seem to take the short term view and try to
save few bucks by downloading lossy files. What might be
fine with a particular application on the equipment you
presently use may be less than ideal in a different
application or on higher quality equipment. By
purchasing lossless you purchase the orginally mastered
quality and have the flexibility to repeatedly transcode
for multiple purposes now and in the future. If HD space
is an issue you can always save the flac files as data
discs and store mp3 or ogg files on your HD.

Transcoding
You will always lose quality when transcoding from one lossy file to another lossy file type. However, 1st and even 2nd generation transcodes can sound quite acceptable. Generally speaking, avoid transcoding to larger or smaller file sizes within the same format. You will be amplifying the same artifacts. When transcoding from one format to another choose higher quality/larger files to limit audible artifacts. With mp3 this means using at least VBR New -V2 (alt preset standard)if not higher.

Transfering Files
If unable to network computers, burn data discs on CDR/RW's.
You can fit 650MB per disc and reuse the discs if multiple discs must be used.

[rockouthippie]

Originally posted by misswicks
f you looking for a lot of music it does become expensive.

With what you can get used from the resale market, I think it's really a wash if you shop.

Especially since a hard disk failure won't leave you praying that you can restore your code keys without things exploding.

I learned when I lost 50 tracks because I didn't back up the license right.

Another thing that is important. DRM is bad. It should be resisted if at all possible. It's important as consumers that we resist DRM as much as possible.

I resist buying products that contain DRM, including anything, like an ipod, that supports DRM. I also will be resisting Vista for as long as possible for the same reasons.

If you guys keep buying this crap, they'll make it worst.

And it's bad enough.

[ScorLibran]

Originally posted by misswicks
ScorLibran - thanks, I had heard 320 kbps wouldn't make a difference so I converted a few at 320 and 220 and loaded them on the ipod just to make sure. I found the quality on most rates (kbps) was fine when played back on the pc but when loaded onto the ipod (as with all poratable devices I would think) the quality was much worse.

If the sound quality is good with both encoding formats on your PC, but not good on the portable device, then you know it can't possibly be an encoding issue. It's either a decoding issue, a DSP/equalization issue, or a headphone/earbud issue. The latter two are the most common.

1. Decoding. If it's a problem with the player's decoder, there's not much you can do except replace the player. Luckily, this kind of problem is rare.

2. DSP/EQ. Make sure you start with the equalizer deactivated (if the player has one), and turn off all DSP options. DSP = "digital signal processing". Identify it as anything on the player that says it'll "make the sound quality better". Most do not - instead they usually muddy-up the sound - but some DSP implementations, if they only make minor changes to the audio stream and do it the correct way, can actually be beneficial to the sound quality. But still, to isolate the source of the sound quality problem, turn off all EQ and DSP settings.

3. Headphones/Earbuds. Once you make sure the EQ and all DSP settings are turned off, try different headphones/earbuds.

Doing these things can help you identify - and then eliminate - the cause of the poor sound quality in your portable player.