Shootin it out with the IRS

[rockouthippie]

BOSTON (Reuters) - An armed man who has refused to pay U.S. federal taxes for a decade has barricaded himself inside his hilltop home in New Hampshire with 20 supporters for a week after resisting an order to show up in court.

Edward Brown, 64, and his wife Elaine Brown, 65, of Plainfield, New Hampshire, were found guilty by a federal jury on Thursday of owing the U.S. government more than $700,000 in unpaid taxes dating back to 1996.

Contacted by Reuters by telephone, Brown said he has paid all his taxes to his town but does not want to pay the federal government.

"The industry and the military are working together to control everything. People don't even know it. Little frogs sitting in boiling water," he said. "The United States of America now is a fascist country."

Assistant U.S. Attorney Bill Morse said Brown and his wife were both looking at "a substantial jail sentence."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070119/...m/oukoe_uk_tax

[ElChevelle]

Guy's got a point but handled it badly.

[Omega X]

That is going to get ugly. Threatening someone with jail time never diffuses things.

[ertmann|CPH]

funny, when i was reading the part about the facist federal goverment, this started playing at random from my playlist...

Soyuz nerushimy respublik svobodnykh
Splotila naveki velikaya Rus'!
Da zdravstvuyet sozdanny voley narodov
Yediny, moguchy Sovetsky Soyuz!

Slavsya, Otechestvo nashe svobodnoye,
Druzhby narodov nadyozhny oplot!
Partiya Lenina — sila narodnaya
Nas k torzhestvu kommunizma vedyot!

Skvoz' grozy siyalo nam solntse svobody,
I Lenin veliky nam put' ozaril,
Na pravoye delo on podnyal narody,
Na trud i na podvigi nas vdokhnovil!

V pobede bessmertnykh idey kommunizma
My vidim gryadushcheye nashey strany,
I krasnomu znameni slavnoy otchizny
My budem vsegda bezzavetno verny!

you gotta give it to them, catchy tune

[1nZur3k70r]

I Support Ed Brown. He is fighting for what many in this country are just begining to wake up to.

The imposition of the Federal Income Tax is Illegal because the 16th amendment was never ratified by enough state votes in 1913, The "Federal" Reserve is a Private Corporation that the government has given power to control the national currency to hold the wealth of the US in exchange for worthless sheets of paper that they can print at will without any real gold worth backing.

I encourage all of you who are curious about this to check out the following links:

Ed Browns Official Blog is here:
Edward Browns Blog

Learn the Truth. Watch America: Freedom to Facsism

Alex Jones' InfoWars

[Smeggle]

wtf is that spam

[ElChevelle]

Not altogether.
It's more info on the topic at hand, basically.

[rockouthippie]

Thinking about it, jail is probably a nicer retirement than the one I'm gonna get

[Warrior of the Light]

No country is perfect so indeed, not 100% of your tax is being used for what you pay for. Nothing new there.
That isn't a reason not to pay at all though. The roads you drive on needs to be paid somehow. If the entire middle-east would suddenly decide to team up and attack America together, you'll be happy that there's an army to protect you.

If you still don't like it, go and live somewhere else.
(just stay away from Holland, because I wouldn't want his kind here either)

[rockouthippie]

Originally posted by Warrior of the Light
No country is perfect so indeed, not 100% of your tax is being used for what you pay for.

Not 100%?. Try just about none. We pay for this stuff, but we don't get it. We fund schools more than we ever funded them, but kids are less and less educated. We pay for stem cell research, when we can't afford a damned bandaid at a hospital.

We bought an army that should protect us, and our trade center got wiped out. We paid for public works that should have helped people in the SW after the hurricane.

We pay for all of this, and we pay more than we ever paid before.

Still, kids go uneducated. People freeze and or starve to death. None of this shit works right. Most of the time the things our government does are worst than nothing.

Have you ever seen government anything do a good job?.

[ElChevelle]

Originally posted by rockouthippie
We paid for public works that should have helped people in the SW after the hurricane.

Arizona got hit by a hurricane?

[1nZur3k70r]

First off my post was not spam it was an attempt to inform you all about whats really going on here, not only with Ed Brown himself but why he is resisting the Tax.

Not at governments are 100% good but when a country has been illegally imposing a tax for almost a hundred years on YOUR LABOR (which is constitutionally your private property) and imprisoning and destroying the lives of people that are patriotic and brave enough to resist against such a lie, then what you have is a fascist totalitarian government!!!

The US Federal Income Tax is illegal, and pays for nothing. Gas taxes pay for road construction, Corporate Taxes pay for War, local property Taxes pay for Education, Federal Income Taxes pays for nothing!! It goes in the pockets of the Federal Reserve Corporation and All the World Banker Pigs that really dictate this country.

Wake up!! When the Federal and State Government cannot and will not to cite a law that requires you to pay Federal Income Tax on your labor but imprisons your for not obeying it, then that law does not exist.

[mikm]

Originally posted by 1nZur3k70r
Not at governments are 100% good but when a country has been illegally imposing a tax for almost a hundred years

Gosh, you'd think that the supreme court would have noticed that by now.

[mistermeow]

Unless you are rich, you can't fight the government. The rich people make the rules in this country. And their are rules for the elite, and then for the poor slobs. That the way it is for better or worse.

This country in going to go downhill until college education, becomes public education. The rich lawmakers children aren't going to miss out on a college education, so I don't see that changing anytime soon.

There seems to be too much controversy around income tax. Even if you could "prove" it was not legal, you are still going to get your ass thrown in jail for income tax evasion eventually.

[1nZur3k70r]

Yeah even though it is not legal, they have all the guns, so therefore we comply.

Unless we all participate in civil disobedience to attain critical mass on this issue, this issue will never really surface.

When it does surface and all Americans know the truth then there is nothing the Fed can do to us anymore that they haven't done all ready.

They cannot imprison us all.

"Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.” — July 4, 1776

[1nZur3k70r]

Originally posted by mikm
Gosh, you'd think that the supreme court would have noticed that by now.

Dont you get it!? The majority of govt is aware of this fraud and they are complicit after the fact.

In reality the Democrats and Republicans (The Republicrats) are two sides of the same coin. They are both RULING CLASS PARTIES that maintain the interest of the Ruling Class, The World Bankers. They Dont Care about us, at all, AT ALL.

They give us the illusion that we have some say in OUR GOVT but continue to force feed us with their Globalist policies and continue to commit ARMED ROBBERY on the American People in the form of Federal Income Tax. Its all just a big f*cking show and we are the gullable hypnotized audience believing all this crap.

[Omega X]

Originally posted by ElChevelle
Arizona got hit by a hurricane?

I think he was talking about Texas maybe?

Even I don't know how that works because Texas is counted as both the SE and SW.

[Warrior of the Light]

Originally posted by 1nZur3k70r
"Governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed. That whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government.” — July 4, 1776

so what is your brilliant new idea?

Ranting is easy, coming up with a better plan is another thing

/edit:
ah whatever, it's not my battle anyway

[1nZur3k70r]

Originally posted by Warrior of the Light
so what is your brilliant new idea?

Ranting is easy, coming up with a better plan is another thing

/edit:
ah whatever, it's not my battle anyway

True Patriotism does not mean wrapping yourself in the flag and being in absolute agreement to everything the current administration and media propaganda says. America is well inundated in false nationalism and fear, with this Terror Rhetoric and the weak minded hordes of idiots willfully comply in absolute obedience.

True Patriotism is the call to defend your country from those who threaten the Constitution and if need be overthrow the TRAITORS that hold the powers of government. The US is founded on the very premise of a Peoples Revolution therefore Americans should not be afraid to do it again if necessary.

If Americans can pull themselves from the hypnotic zombification of pop culture garbage maybe they can stop being oblivious and realize what the reality of the US and maybe do something before it completely becomes a Totalitarian Police State and enslaves the entire world with Economic Globalization.

[shakey_snake]

Personally, I think the country would work a lot better if the federal gov't powers were returned to their constitutional boundaries. However, I think it's pretty clear that the Sixteenth Amendment gives congress the power to collect income tax. You could argue that it was never ratified, or come up with some other argument, but the Supreme court has pretty much always ruled otherwise.
I think it's pretty futile.
If you want to protest the 16th, then try to get it appealed.
Amendments can be ratified by state convention. So, there isn't even gov't action required.

Economic globalization is destined to happen.
The fact that we're on the internet proves that point.

[watadoo]

Have you ever seen government anything do a good job?.<<<

Two words: mosquito abatement. In my county you call up mosquito abatement in the spring and they give you advice and free mosquito fish to clear up your pond. You have to bring your own empty coffee can, though. finest, most friendly gubmint org out there. close second: the fire department. hard working, brave guys and gals that WILL risk their muffins to save your house. Dissing on them is fighting words as I used to be a firefighter.

[1nZur3k70r]

Originally posted by shakey_snake
Personally, I think the country would work a lot better if the federal gov't powers were returned to their constitutional boundaries. However, I think it's pretty clear that the Sixteenth Amendment gives congress the power to collect income tax. You could argue that it was never ratified, or come up with some other argument, but the Supreme court has pretty much always ruled otherwise.
I think it's pretty futile.
If you want to protest the 16th, then try to get it appealed.
Amendments can be ratified by state convention. So, there isn't even gov't action required.

IRS Lie #1

"Ever since the 16th Amendment to the Constitution was ratified (February 3, 1913) giving Congress the power "to lay and collect taxes on incomes" there have been citizens arguing that it was not properly ratified and income taxes are illegal. Unfortunately, some citizens continue to raise such arguments in spite of the fact that they have no basis in law and the courts have repeatedly rejected their arguments as frivolous".

Truth - In point of fact, the 16th Amendment was not properly ratified. Mr. Bill Benson and Mr. M.J. "Red" Beckman traveled to every state that was a part of the Union back in 1913, and researched the voting records and other pertinent data from each of the state legislature's historical archives. Their research is contained within a two-volume set entitled, "The Law That Never Was". The inescapable conclusion of their research is that the 16th Amendment was not properly ratified. ["The Law That Never Was" can be found at www.thelawthatneverwas.com] Further, despite the IRS lies stated above, no US court has ever determined that the 16th Amendment was, in reality, properly ratified. What the courts have said is that because the [then] US Secretary of State, Philander Knox, "certified" that the Amendment was properly ratified, the courts of the United States must consider it properly ratified. The federal courts have stated that whether or not the Amendment was, in reality, properly ratified is a "political question".

Even if you argue the 16th Amendment was legally ratified by the required 3/4 states, The Federal Income Tax is expressly defined as a VOLUNTARY TAX for most people.

1) Due to limitations imposed by the U.S. Constitution, filing of federal income tax returns and payment of federal income tax is voluntary, not mandatory.

2) The 16th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which precipitated the federal income tax, was never legally ratified.

3) The U.S. government finances its operations from the unconstitutional creation of fiat money, not with revenue from income taxes.

If you still want to carry your argument I counter with the following

"The sixteenth [amendment] does not justify the taxation of persons or things (their property) previously immune . . .it does not extend taxing power to new or excepted citizens…it is intended only to remove all occasions from any apportionment of income taxes among the states. It does not authorize a tax on a salary." [emphasis added]
Evans v. Gore, 253 US 245 (1920)

http://www.thelawthatneverwas.com/new/home.asp
http://www.buildfreedom.com/suprynowicz.htm
http://www.originalintent.org/edu/lies.php
http://www.originalintent.org/edu/fedincometax.php
http://www.buildfreedom.com/fiscal/suprynowicz.html

[rockouthippie]

Originally posted by watadoo
Have you ever seen government anything do a good job?.<<<

Two words: mosquito abatement. In my county you call up mosquito abatement in the spring and they give you advice and free mosquito fish to clear up your pond. You have to bring your own empty coffee can, though. finest, most friendly gubmint org out there. close second: the fire department. hard working, brave guys and gals that WILL risk their muffins to save your house. Dissing on them is fighting words as I used to be a firefighter.

Sometimes being a firefighter is dangerous. Actually though, fires are pretty rare anymore. Things just don't burn down by themselves as much. I've done some firefighting in the forests, that's dangerous....

But if it wasn't for the fact that all the tree huggers kept people from logging the forests, they wouldn't be burning down.

As a matter of fact, if our government had been dealing properly with our security and foreign policy, we wouldn't have terrorist attacks for firefighters to get killed in.

Usually, if I call the rescue squad for my mom, I have half the fire department here, running an engine, the cops and a dog and pony show. Then the ambulance charges $200 a mile to drive her to the hospital. I needed 8 guys busting the house to get a little old lady to the hospital.

Single firefighters?. Brave guys doing a dangerous job because they are WELL PAID. I do dangerous jobs when I am well paid too. Some of them have been more dangerous than firefighting.

No one is the american folk hero.

I like mosquito abatement, but I'm sure it costs 10 times what it's worth like anything else.

One thing has changed.... firefighters are now a legend in their own mind. Those guys that got killed in 911. That wasn't you. You were drinking coffee at the firehouse getting paid.

They have pictures of the guys that have been firefighters and local cops that have gotten killed down at the local courthouse. Going back to the 1950s. They're about a half a dozen.

Two of them were fire and police chiefs that keeled over at their desk from heart attacks. One cop got picked off at a traffic stop. The rest?.

Get real.

Want a really dangerous job?. Be a taxi driver.

I'm not dissing firemen, I'm just saying people should turn the TV off. Most of the time "It's only in the movies".

[1nZur3k70r]

This whole Fireman, Police Officer glorification paradigm in "Post-911 America" is like some lame rehash of Norman Rockwell fake-a$$ Americana crap.

They aint tying to be heroes, nor should they be seen like ones. They get paid to do what they do, just like every other working slave in this Prison Faciltiy called America.
screw all those sentimental photos of Firefighters wrapped in the flag at ground zero.

All the people at WTC died for the US Government Criminals and their Imperialist Agenda.

9/11 was an inside job suckas!
Wake Up!

[alex_gamer]

1nZur3k70r posts

it seems that your all smoke and no fire.


* alex_gamer leaves the thread

[mikm]

Originally posted by alex_gamer
it seems that your all smoke and no fire.


* alex_gamer leaves the thread

I do wonder what he's smoking. I agree with the fact that the government is untrustworthy and often oversteps its bounds. However, I think the whole 'zomg 911 conspiracy' is more bullshit than Elvis sightings.

[1nZur3k70r]

Originally posted by mikm
I do wonder what he's smoking. I agree with the fact that the government is untrustworthy and often oversteps its bounds. However, I think the whole 'zomg 911 conspiracy' is more bullshit than Elvis sightings.

Your all fools if you think a government wouldn't sacrifice thousands of its own citizens to advance American imperialism across the world.

It has already done it in the form of innocent civilians on 9/11 and now its doing it in the form of 20,000 military personnel. We all now know the the justifications for the Iraq invasions were all straight up lies, there were no WMD's. Yet when we told you that before the War you called us all kooks and consiracy theorists. What now!?

Who has been the ones responsible for countless genocides through out time?? Terrorists?? Hell no. Governments, Fascist Lying Coward Governments!! Fascists like the ones currently installed in the US of A.

Hilter had the Reichstag burned down to suspend human rights, Thats fact from the Nuremberg trails.

"After Adolf Hitler had been appointed Reichskanzler on January 30, 1933, the building was set on fire on February 27, 1933, under circumstances still not entirely clear. This proved to be a valuable excuse for the Nazis to suspend most human rights provided for by the 1919 constitution in the Reichstag Fire Decree."

Think Patriot Act Suckas!
This is history repeating itself.

Wake up and stop being willingly ignorant to the Harsh Truth around you. I know you all just would rather forget the real world exists, with its war, plague, genocide and hatred but youll just continue being a willing slave until you wake up!

Federal Income Tax is an Illegal lie imposed by a Fascist Government and 9/11 was an Inside Job!

[1nZur3k70r]

And Listen to Immortal Technique!

[ElChevelle]

Use the edit button.

[1nZur3k70r]

How Petty. Whatever.

[shakey_snake]

Originally posted by 1nZur3k70r
"The sixteenth [amendment] does not justify the taxation of persons or things (their property) previously immune . . .it does not extend taxing power to new or excepted citizens…it is intended only to remove all occasions from any apportionment of income taxes among the states. It does not authorize a tax on a salary." [emphasis added]
Evans v. Gore, 253 US 245 (1920)

Originally posted by the 16th Amendment
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.

IRS pamphlet: The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments[pdf]

Seriously, it's a pretty open and shut case. I've read The Law That Never Was and find it unconvincing.

Here is a page of tax evasion arguments shot down by the Federal courts.

[xzxzzx]

Originally posted by Warrior of the Light
so what is your brilliant new idea?

Ranting is easy, coming up with a better plan is another thing

http://www.lp.org

[1nZur3k70r]

Originally posted by shakey_snake
IRS pamphlet: The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments[pdf]

The Truth about The Truth About Frivolous Tax Arguments is that it is produced by the IRS. I guess you'll believe anything a liar will tell you. I mean cmon you gonna believe the same criminals perpetrating the crimes to police themselves? That has less creditability than the Official 9/11 Commission Report!

Here is a page of tax evasion arguments shot down by the Federal courts.

You know Wikipedia isn't exactly a crowning achievement of objectivity.

Besides, regardless of what judgments have passed, the judgments are being made by the same criminal fascist govt responsible for this fraud. Of course it will protect its assets at any cost, even the shredding of the Constitution.

Seriously, it's a pretty open and shut case. I've read The Law That Never Was and find it unconvincing.

When all is said and done youll believe whatever you want. But I want you to remeber this: Defending a criminal lie will not get you anywhere, you are no one in their ranks, they dont give a #### about you. At all!! At all!! And they will continue to rob you of the money you righteously earned with your labor.

There is another way:
http://www.gp.org/

[zootm]

1nZur3k70r, your arguments are failing to hold any real water here. The argument that the tax is illegal is based on a very optimistic reading of the law, and one which has been thrown out in court many times.

Edit:
Also, the PDF that shakey_snake linked does directly address that Bill Benson nutjob:

In November 2004, the Justice Department filed a civil injunction
complaint against William Benson, asking the court to bar Mr. Benson
from selling a fraudulent tax scheme and from unlawfully interfering with
the Internal Revenue Service. Mr. Benson’s tax scheme relies on the
frivolous position that the Sixteenth Amendment was never ratified. See
http://www.usdoj.gov/tax/txdv04752.htm; see also 2004 TNT 223-20 (Nov.
16, 2004).

His arguments have been tested in court more than once, and are officially "insignificant".

[1nZur3k70r]

Besides, regardless of what judgments have passed, the judgments are being made by the same criminal fascist govt responsible for this fraud. Of course it will protect its assets at any cost, even the shredding of the Constitution.

[shakey_snake]

then what good was the constitution?

[xzxzzx]

The point here is that you'll still get thrown in jail for not paying your taxes, regardless of whether it's technically legal for the government to assess those taxes.

You'd have to do something on a political level if you want some real change.

[1nZur3k70r]

Originally posted by xzxzzx
The point here is that you'll still get thrown in jail for not paying your taxes, regardless of whether it's technically legal for the government to assess those taxes.

You'd have to do something on a political level if you want some real change.

We do not have to leave it up to politicians all the time. I will give Third Parties the benefit of the doubt however. The people hold the true power of this govt. VOX POPULI. A little massive organized civil disobedience can go a long way.

Please Watch:
America: Freedom to Fascism

[shakey_snake]

If you're serious then please never pay your taxes. You don't right? Then, they can send you to prison and you'll have all kinds of time to think about how the gov't is a thief.

Just because you're libertarian doesn't mean you have to deny reality.

[mrd00d]

Tax avoidance is how they got Al Capone.

Don't think they can't get some guy posting about how America is filled with corruption and evil on the winamp message boards.

Something to consider, eh? Get a business name, learn the law, and do some tax write-offs is you are that pissed about paying taxes, or....move to Canada? I heard the Royal Canadian Kilted Yaksmen are looking for a few good men.


*** A special thanks to Viacom for being eeeediots. The first time I looked for that 'clip' I got a message stating 'This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by Viacom International Inc.'

Message to Viacom International Inc....YOU MISSED ONE, YOU toOlz! P.S. Have a chat with Lars Ulrich (Metallica tool) about how his attempt to 'control the planet by suing Napster' turned out for him. I personally lost respect for Metallica when they attack the very people who made them who they are. You can't control the internet...when you try, you make us all laugh at your sillyness.

The message you are sending out when you try to control YouTube is this. "We are greedy, ignorant, tards... -- Viacom" wake up and smell my binary.