winamp 6...

[Koogle]

get a better playlist... its about time

here is a screenshot of another player with a very customisable playlist, with tabs!, and hello... whats that ..a QUICK SEARCH .. OMG no more jump to file dialog rubbish.. so please when thinking of what to do with Winamp 6 ... Would be good to see something actually useful built in.

[DrO]

and no support for anyone with classic skins/existing setups. great idea... not. or shall we just break all legacy support and start from scatch... oh wait that was Winamp3 which was basically slammed for doing just that.

this is why nothing has been done to the playlist editor (especially as the modern skin pledit is just the classic skin embedded in a modern frame) since any changes need to be considered on a multiple level since just because you don't use other plugins, etc still means that those who do need to be taken into account.

and the derogatory comments you keep making about things like the jtf dialog (which have been in well before the poxy modern skin support) are becoming tedious. if it's that much of an issue then why not implement your own plugin to resolve the issues?

-daz

[Koogle]

what other plugins are you talking about? if it wasn't for plugins I would have ditched winamp years ago. And classic skins should go out the window, I think we could start seeing a moden skin built classis styles, but with a base to make it easier for people to make there own themes, if that would help, but otherwise I think classic should ditched so winamp can progress if that is what is holding things back.

and jtf is crap.. I like seamless and useful design not tacked on features its just ugly and most new users wouldn't think of looking for J key.

[DrO]

Originally posted by Koogle
I like seamless and useful design not tacked on features

the whole of your blessed modern skin support is tacked on and is the main reason why modern skins are notorious for causing more issues than they're worth. and this is one more reason why the old devs were right in saying winamp should have been scrapped at the time since there's just no way that winamp can deal with people's needs anymore, but whatever, isn't like i know anything about winamp coding and design constraints anyway

-daz

[Nunzio390]

Originally posted by Koogle
and jtf is crap.. I like seamless and useful design not tacked on features its just ugly and most new users wouldn't think of looking for J key.

So... if you don't like the ever-so-useful JTFE feature (included by default in Winamp as part of the distribution), then, as Darren already indicated above, create your OWN plugin to do what you want.

OR... go play with that AIMP (or whutevah) player that you posted an image to above.

Yeah... do that. Instead of posting in the Winamp forums to trash Winamp and Darren's amazing plugins. Do that. Go with that other inferior AIMP player and post your comments in their forums (if they have any).

[Koopa]

Well, you fail to see the main point, many users prefer classic skins.

Classic skins are easy too use, there are tons of wonderful classic skins aviable.

Some modern skins are really impressive, but to be honest, most of them are not usable. The only modern skin, which has a nice look and high functionallity, is the bundled modern skin.

Massive playlist changes would break all classic skins, and this would piss off a lot of old school users.

I'm sure, that massive changes to the playlist would break some plug-ins too. Many people depend on 3rd party plug-ins.

I like it to listen to SNES music on my system.

Winamp is different, Winamp isn't iTunes, WMP or whatever. And the fact, that it's different, is one of the reasons, why we love and use Winamp.

The Jump feature is one of the best features I've ever seen in any player.

And I will never check, why people cannot wait to see another version number.

A complete new Winamp, would be a big mistake. Just take a look at Winamp3.

The fact, that Winamp5 is an imrpoved Winamp2 is the reason, why I'm using Winamp5 instead of Winamp2.

Winamp5 has some nice new features, but is still compatible to all my classic skins and most plug-ins.

*shrugs*

[Perseid]

For what it's worth the playlist is one of the main reasons I keep using Winamp. I like it. Don't break it.

[psycho_maniac]

so if you like AIMP 2 then why dont you use that instead of complaining what winamp doesnt do. I LOVE jtfe. if it wasnt for that i wouldnt be able to find songs that pop in my head very fast. also dont listen to darren. he only made over 17 plugins that enhance winamp. every plugin i have is made by him.

[wesderby]

Getting rid of classic skins would be a REALLY bad idea. The classic skins are one of the things that help us blind users gain access to the program through our screenreaders, and are one of the many reasons why Winamp is superior to Windows Media Player and most other media players out there. Hopefully, the classic skins will always be available as an option for those of us who need them.

[Benco]

Hi everybody !!

First, sorry for my bad english :/ ...
I'm joining the debate because, although I really love Winamp, and even more since the new Winamp5, I think, like many users, that the Playlist could have some new features. But I agree that it should not break classic skins compatibility, so I'm asking : can't the playlist features be upgraded without this compatibility issue ?

I'm not a great developer, so I may miss some points. But for example, I think that reworking the internal management of the pl in order to control how the text is rendered would not break the classic skin compatibility. And it would make possible to control, for example, the numbering of each entry, allowing a per-album separator, something like in the aimp2 example. If I recall well, this was a limitation of DrO's Playlist Separator plugin.

OK, I know that it would be a lot of work, and my point is not that it should be a priority. I'm just saying that adding some features in the Playlist Window won't necessary break the classic skins compatibility, if it's done the right way.

You can even imagine a new classic skin format which would be compatible with the actual one. remember when the ML was first added, with a gerenic window skin. Not all skins where having this one included...

[Koogle]

Well if classic users don't want to see better improvements then maybe that build of winamp should just be cut loose and left as winamp classic, while the rest of winamp can move on and start progressing, i'm sure if things were done right people wouldn't mind coming back to update there skins/plugins if the changes made to winamp were actualy worth coming back too..

anyway here is a mashup i did of what i'd like to see in music player... but done even better ofc

[Wolfgang]

Wow, that's a bit of a monstrosity, particularly with the "Music tasks" Windows Explorer bollocks.

For me the big power of JTFE is when used in conjunction with Global Hotkeys. I can change song from wherever I am by just doing Ctrl+Alt+J and the thing I want (something to search for and pick a song) pops up. Quick and easy. And like the others, the only reason I've been using Winamp for the last 8 years is because it's stayed faithful to its users and is very careful about implementing new "features". We all want different things and Winamp has done a very good job, I think, of finding some sort of middle ground where everyone is happy.

That said, I do like the idea of tabs in the playlist editor. Also, I may be wrong, but in the past when I did Ctrl+Alt+J I thought that only the JTFE box popped up, whereas now it appears with the rest of winamp as well. Just wondering if this is normal...

[Koogle]

"particularly with the "Music tasks" Windows Explorer bollocks" ....whatever, i didn't call it a mashup for nothing you know.

[psycho_maniac]

i love winamp just the way it is. i love that they still have classic skins because some people dont like change. i see you like a lot of changes. so why complain about winamp and find a new player that does all this for you. also jtfe is the best thing ever. especially with hot keys. i think of a song hit F11 and type and boom i got the song in less then 5 seconds. how cool is that.

[osmosis]

wow, what a horrible clusterfuck of ideas..

[TheUniqueTiger]

There are two things that Koogle brought up in the discussion about the PL... the tabs and the search. While the search has been talked about with using JTF, the tabs don't need to be directly in the PL. Why not everytime create a ML playlist named 'Now Playing' that stores the current playlist. Any changes made to the Now Playing playlist should be reflected in the PL and vice-versa. Replacement made to the current playlist will call for a confirmation whether to modify 'Now Playing' or use another 'Now Playing 1', thus allowing the user to switch back to the previous playlist. I seldom go into the plugins section, so I don't know if there's already a plugin, but implementing it in default Winamp package would be better.

The mashup of ideas is really too demanding.

[nyp4life]

Originally posted by osmosis
wow, what a horrible clusterfuck of ideas..

lol seriously.. stop complaining ppl. winamp in my opinion is the best media player as is.. ok so i use VLC for videos (only because i don't have to download extra codecs or anything), but for music there's no better. and i really can't understand how it's ranked second to WMP. cmon ppl even iTunes is better than WMP.. now if only we can get the iPod Touch to sync thru winamp we could uninstall iTunes

[Benco]

nyp4life and psycho_maniac : From my point of view, this thread is not about complaining, it's about how users think it could be even better. I would never stop using Winamp, for me it's the best audio player, but maybe there's ways to make it better. even you said that you would like to see IPod Touch sync in it. and I don't think Winamp devs have nothing to care about users opinions.

About the "now playing" playlist in the ML, it's been discussed many times, and it seems that it won't happen. It could still be an option, you choose whether to have the PL embeded in the ML or standalone. but whatever, as already said, it probably won't happen.

again, I agree that compatibility with classic must not be broken, but what I was trying to point out is that it should be possible to add features to the PL (or whatever) without breaking this compatibility.

Any comment from a dev ?

[jon_joy_1999]

Originally posted by Benco
nyp4life and psycho_maniac : From my point of view, this thread is not about complaining, it's about how users think it could be even better.

frankly my friend, I would like to see the current version of winamp fixed (legacy MOD issues mainly) more than I'd like to see "new" features in Winamp

[Simba4]

Just a small Question,

while AOL Forced Gaim to rename the Gaim IM Client to Pidgin whats AOL gonna do with the company that holds there Player AIMP shouldn't that be renamed to? as it holds AIM in AIMP

[TREADJF]

Originally posted by Koopatrooper
The Jump feature is one of the best features I've ever seen in any player.

I agree with you, and JTF is very good, remembering that JTF can be skinned checking the option "Skin Jump To File using the current Winamp style" in Winamp Preferences. That option should come checked for default.

[SystemError]

While I find Koogle to be a bit harsh, I do like the idea of having some separators or indicators so the user can see which songs belong to a certain folder. When one has multiple albums of a given artist/band it is sometimes annoying when trying to differentiate the albums in the playlist.
JTFE is nice but on my PC (MSI K7N2 Delta-ILSR, AMD Barton 2500, 1GB RAM) it's still sluggish with my ~5800 track playlist. That's why I turn it off.
As to Nunzio390's arrogant post, I don't find AIMP to be inferior to Winamp. In fact it's quite good a player. One of the best things about it is the lack of loads of crap that Winamp has in its installation. Of course I can customize the installation, but still. Anyway both players are good. My current choice is Winamp though.

[incripshin]

Originally posted by osmosis
wow, what a horrible clusterfuck of ideas..

Agreed. Few people here understand software at all.

Winamp classic seems a highly discussed topic. It can and always should be supported. An interface is an incredibly simple thing, compared with all of the back end code. There's no reason for them not to support it. If they're building a totally modular interface, they can easily support those simple, rigid skins.

Here's the thing about Winamp 2/3/5. They're Winamp 1. Here's how version numbers are meant to work. If I have a piece of software, my first release might be 1.0. If I have a future version with updates, it might be 1.3. If the 1.3 release needs some bugfixes, I get up to 1.3.1 or something. If all I'm doing, though, is adding features, I still have the major release version '1'. Only if there is a complete rewrite can I call the version 2.0. You don't just add more advanced skins and call it 3. Then, you let v3 support v2 skins, and call it 5. What is this? Apparently it's marketing that's guiding development.

Here are examples. Linux is at version 2, and Linus Torvalds says that will never change. Perl 6 is being developed; it is a community rewrite. Python 3 is in alpha right now; Guido van Rossum fully expects it to break most 2.x python code. Apple keeps releasing new updates to their operating system, but they keep the major number at 10. Take a step into the Windows world, and everything changes.

There has been no rewrite for Winamp. They've been adding onto and adding onto the same code base for years, and it's been broken for just as long. It's such a mish-mash of code right now. What it really needs is an overhaul; they need to start fresh. I just saw how much memory Winamp was using when it wasn't doing anything at all. 80 fucking MB. What could possibly be the point of that?

I've had it with iTunes, and I've had it with Winamp. They're both junk. Windows needs a good OSS music library/player.

[pjn123]

Too lazy to read all the post...

One thing I've picked up here is that DrO & Mr Jones dont like modern skins... when I'm bored someday I'll try to find all of them and put them together... Anyway, now for some help.

DrO, the JTF is the best. Would like to see ver1.0 in my lifetime
Now I know the JTF have a skinned version. Now if you can work with Benski and create a xui object for JTF it will sort itself out. All thats needed is a search box that pops bigger if I type in it. This wont even be that hard to implement it... and it will be useful.

You then just create a xui object called Modern:PL.... this is then just a already coded maki version of the classic playlist and the jtf auto open box.

A bigger slider for the playlist would also be cool.

As for all Koogle's suggestions... dont see that happening. Dont know if the wasabi player is open source project... anyway... I think it should be and a few people that would like to work on it in spare time should... then we can do anything we want with no classic skins holding us back.

The winamp playlist is one of the out dated stuff in Winamp. Luckily the ML & JTF makes up for it.

[mynameisnobody]

good idea, pjn!
would be very useful
JTF is a great plugin, unfortunately many user don't know about, because they don't see it

[Mr Jones]

Originally posted by pjn123
Too lazy to read all the post...

One thing I've picked up here is that DrO & Mr Jones dont like modern skins... when I'm bored someday I'll try to find all of them and put them together... Anyway, now for some help.

Not strictly true, otherwise I wouldn't have made so many of them would I?

My point is,personaly I don't really use any skin at all, I'm a minimalist person and I have better things to do with my desktop then have it covered in some massive cpu sucking skin.

However, to simply dismiss classic skins and say they are 'dead' is plain wrong, we still have more people making classic skin, we still have plenty of people downloading them, so how can they be dead?

If it's one thing modern skins has done is to create a clique of users who think they are some kind of programing gods because they can make a fancy pants interface or that to make a skin you have to spend years writing masses of code, sadly that seems to have sucked all the creativity out of most of them.

Bottom line however, there is a market for both out there, so don't go pissing off your users by suddenly dropping support, after all , one of the reasons winamp even has modern skin support now is because it was one of the best features of winamp3, winamp3 was probably gonna get junked no matter what, but it would have pissed people off if suddenly they couldn't use their modern skins, so gen_ff.dll as created and glued onto Winamp2 at the time.

Originally posted by pjn123

Dont know if the wasabi player is open source project

Bits of it were, but it needed a heck of a lot of code re-writing if I recall to replace the closed source parts , people lost interest...

Oh, and....

Originally posted by incripshin

Then, you let v3 support v2 skins, and call it 5. What is this? Apparently it's marketing that's guiding development.

That's the other way around it was 2 supporting 3 skins.

It had to be called 5 anyhow, it couldn't have been Winamp4, you'd then have had Winamp 4 skins......

[pjn123]

I have no problems with classic skins. I like them.

Afaik modern skins get downloaded more than classics... just look at mdd3... and the years of coding isnt needed but if you want a good skin like Bento or Azenis 2() its needed. None of them is cpu sucking.. and with the dual core cpu's these days who cares. Winamp never use more than 2% cpu with one of those.

I like to have one frame for winamp and make it about 1/4 of the screen in the background and then switch over to Winamp if I need to know the song name or find a new track. With classic skins I always need to drag the little windows so that they can stick to each other and if I need the ML to be big I have to brake all my hard work of sticking them together.

I'll agree with you, that most of the modern skins is unusable and just eye candy. I dont like skins like that but you'll have to agree that some of the modern skins is very usable indeed. I think you must have a catagory for stupid skins on the site.

The average user dont even know about JTF... and the skinned JTF is already there.. might as well dust it off and implement it for good.

One thing that I'll like to see in the feature is a skinned small toolbar(like WMP have) in the taskbar. I know you get plugins that will display the playback buttons in the tray... but thats so 1999.

And the creativity was sucked because Nullsoft cant code a website. The uploading of new stuff is really pathetic. When they fix the stuff for good people might start visiting the site more.

[Mr Jones]

I agree, we should have had a deskband by now, it was in production for wa3, but vanished when it got canned.

I'll agree with you that years of coding isn't required, maybe a bit harsh on my point, one of my fave modern skins uses no maki at all and is chock full of interesting features and stuff, all done in the xml.

As for MMD3 , it's a great skin and really showed what could be done if you put your mind to it, I reckon a lot of it's downloads however have come from it being stuck onto the front page of winamp.com skins page for the last 100 years

If I could get rid of anything from the front page, it'd be 'top rated' and 'most downloaded', they never change because everyone sees that first and either rates it or downloads it , or both, so the status quo never changes, we had the same problem a few years ago with a classic skin, I forget the name, but it was always always on the front page for years and had an unbelievable ammount of downloads.

A lot of the creativity was sucked out of skin making simply because the freeform engine was released too early, with too many bugs and too little documentation, it was too much too soon for most people and it put people off left right and centre, it only appealed to the real hardcore skinners who could be bothered to spend the time and effort to learn it, all the great artistic skin makes left the building where was Raj I/O ?, where was flite? , Moss?

Raj I/O is a good example, made some of the most breathtaking classic skins out there, tried his hand at a modern skin, which frankly was poor and promptly vanished off the scene, he even asked me if I was willing to help him code something, at the time I was as much in the dark as the next man as to how to get things working so I turned down the offer.

I'll stick with making modern skins and classic skin because I enjoy tinkering around with stuff that other people might like to use as well, but I'll stick with my tray icons and hotkeys on my machines hehe...

[soulraven]

i like the option that in the playlist appears the album delimitetd from another album.....is posible to create o plugin or an option for that in winamp?

[J_Darnley]

Originally posted by soulraven
i like the option that in the playlist appears the album delimitetd from another album.....is posible to create o plugin or an option for that in winamp?
[Image]

You can try DrO's Playlist Seperator plugin.

[soulraven]

i can't find it...
http://www.winamp.com/plugins/search/?q=Playlist&next=1

[DrO]

that's because it's not on winamp.com (as is the case with most of my plugins since the submission system has always been rubbish)

http://nunzioweb.com/daz/files/Playl...tor_v2_1_9.exe is the plugin (and related thread is here)

-daz

[Nunzio390]

Originally posted by DrO
that's because it's not on winamp.com (as is the case with most of my plugins since the submission system has always been rubbish)

Yeah... its SUCKS, doesn't it?

I'm thinking about creating a separate web site section, devoted entirely to all your plugins - screenshots, download links, descriptions and all. Maybe even with a reviewing section.

If only I had the time.

[soulraven]

it works, is splendid.......thx

[Nunzio390]

Originally posted by Nunzio390
Yeah... its SUCKS, doesn't it?

I'm thinking about creating a separate web site section, devoted entirely to all your plugins - screenshots, download links, descriptions and all. Maybe even with a reviewing section.

If only I had the time.

Darren please read this:

OK. I've made a little time.

I've recreated 2 of your pages using the same CSS and format that you use.
But in this case, you'll find an added link at the top-right of each of the 2 pages that says "Reviews". Clicking on that link will allow the site visitor to both view exsiting Reviews and add their own.

These are the 2 pages:

Time Restore & Autoplay v2.1

One Click Show & Hide v1.5

Let me know if you would like to have the same thing at your site and I'll set it up for you (a bit at a time for each of your plugins, time providing).

You would of course have full control over editing/deleting any "spammy" Reviews via an Admin Panel.

Take care,
Nunz

P.S.

In case you miss this, I think I'll start a new thread too.
Actually, yah. I'll start a new thread.
So don't respond to this here.
Respond here instead > Darren please read this

Oooh! I've cross-posted!!

[pjn123]

Mmm.... here is a very early preview of a build in search for modern skins. Still need a function in the pldir.mi to enable me to start playing a certain track in the playlist... but I'm sure this will be added.

The final version will include much more.... This is about 10% done.

[Koogle]

nice one pjn123

hurray for some progress

edit.. you need 5.51 installed otherwise you get a script error/crash for anyone who did want to try the above skin test from pjn123

Couldn't be bothered to install winamp 5.51 up until now, but as I said before this is some good worth while progress being made now. Will be keeping upto date on this one, hopefully you can push for those extra functions you need adding to that pldir.mi script done quicker, so that you can get this feature working properly sooner.

[freeman_ef]

Come on ppl...just get a life...
Did you ever think about system requirements...
All the things that you said about introducing new features are resource eaters
Its bad enough that winamp has big sys requirements...and the baddest thing is that it does`t work with win 9x and win me
And just forget about dumping classic skins...
You try running winamp wiyh 32mb ram and p1 233 mhz cpu...
Did you know that a lots af people still have old computers
Everybody body wants more crappy ram and cpu for things that just dont need so much
Personnaly i think winamp is #1 and nobody can be perfect.

[freeman_ef]

and classic skins work much much better...dont forget it...less system requirements

[Koogle]

come on freeman... just get a new pc!

jeesh! ... you maybe be trying to run winamp on an older pc.. but then why not just stick to an older build of winamp!, you know thats what most people do, I know a few people who keep an older pc to run just older software , they don't expect to keep updating it to the latest version lol.. If I only had an older pc I wouldn't go complaining telling software companies.. hey guys this is great!!!.. don't bother updating it with better features.. I want to be able to update this like everyone else and still run it on my 386... its kinda like saying to a game developer.. oh don't bother adding in that hdri lighting.. I know it will make the game look better, but my pc will run it like crap, I dont care if anyone else has better pc to run it on nowadays and wants to see a bit more realism added into there games.

and it seems development in plugins etc is slow around here, people seem to have just moved on.. I can't help but wonder if thats not a little winamps slow progress and its general userbase's doing.

Personally I think winamp is 'getting better' but, no where near perfect