YP ban advisory

Tag · 10th December 2008, 01:44

We are actively looking for people stuffing their listener counts and standing up fake sc_serv's in an attempt to get better listings.

If you are discovered, your entire subnet will be banned from the directory service.

The use of forwarding proxies is also not permitted, it too will result in a subnet ban.

That is all and Happy Christmas

JonnyMac · 10th December 2008, 12:02

Quote:

Originally posted by Tag
Happy Christmas

Ban, humbug!

bored_womble · 10th December 2008, 13:03

sounds a tad harsh .... but I suppose reality always is !

BW

Greg_E · 10th December 2008, 13:55

Not harsh, something that may be overdue. Unfortunately banning the subnet may crush a few legitimate users.

Nick@ss · 10th December 2008, 16:28

Has the ban system been working of late as we haven't had many complainers lately?

SC_faisal · 10th December 2008, 18:52

Happy Christmas indeed. Sgt. Tag layin down da law!

f.

chuckeh · 10th December 2008, 19:23

Really great work! And good bye to all fakers

Jkey · 10th December 2008, 20:45

Ive already had pms

there probably wont be many people publicly complaining
as the stations targeted are breaking the rules.

sticky'd so the msg is not lost

Clausel · 13th December 2008, 15:01

Legal Stations without fakes get banned.
This sucks :/

Nick@ss · 13th December 2008, 15:06

If you are banned then there should be a reason.

Drop Tag or Jkey a pm with the banned ip address and they will look when they have time.

ps please keep your sig image in accordance with the rules or it will be removed.

Jkey · 13th December 2008, 16:44

if you feel you have been banned in error drop me a pm
with the ip address and i will look into it for you.

There are certain issues that i am concerned about myself
regarding how stations are checked and banned.
If it turns out that stations who are not breaking the rules
are getting banned then thats a serious issue which must be addressed.

Tag · 15th December 2008, 18:24

The policy is to ban the Subnet of the offending station, if we endup banning a legit station, please send me a PM so we can add your IPs to an exclusion list. The reason we ban subnets is because more often than not people who fake will move IP's quickly, usually in the same subnet, so this catches that behavior. I have already un-banned some legit stations due to this, if you find your station is not being listed and you're running a pure copy of sc_serv, I will remove the ban on your subnet. If you are running a fake server, scripted proxy or unapproved third party server you will NOT be un-banned.

Jkey · 15th December 2008, 18:35

Thanks for taking the time to add clarification tag it is greatly appreciated.

Jkey · 19th December 2008, 21:32

The pms are starting to flood in,please be aware that although i can speak to AOL staff on your behalf and find a reason for your ban once you have violated the shoutcast TOS there is no way to get yourself unbanned.

Again i am happy to take pms and discuss bans so dont be affraid to contact me.

Please note:-
Over the christmas and newyear period it will take me
longer to reply to pms as i wont be online as much.
Having said that i will reply faster than Tag
Please be patient i will respond.

Greg_E · 19th December 2008, 22:53

Look... If you are banned because you broke the rules (and you obviously know you were breaking them) too damn bad, don't be such an idiot next time the opportunity comes up. The only PMs that should be sent are from those people who were not breaking the rules and got caught in the subnet ban. The rules are pretty easy to follow, so if you got caught breaking them, I have some harsh words for you (but will hold them back to be polite). I think you should post a list of people that were breaking the rules so that we can publicly abuse them.

The mods are probably way too polite to the people who were breaking the rules.

People should also remember that you get what you pay for, and the last time I checked the YP was still free.

Jkey · 20th December 2008, 08:07

tis the season to be jolly greg_E

Besides what can be more fun than listening to a person who spent hours hacking a binary thinking they beat the system and then finding out that the system just kicked them in the balls

Ive dealt with 1 or 2 that have been banned in error too really the polite behaviour of mods is for them.

Greg_E · 20th December 2008, 14:55

I still think the cheaters should be hung by their virtual toes for all of us to throw rotten virtual food at. I do feel sorry for the legitimate users who get caught in this and wish there was a better way to do the banning, but I have no ideas how it could be done better.

Jkey · 20th December 2008, 19:04

As far as im aware it will be very different in the future, and cheating the system will be virtually impossible

paul.lee · 15th January 2009, 01:00

What does this actually mean 'stuffing their listener counts and standing up fake sc_serv's'

What are people doing?

I hope my situation doesn't get affected. I was going to setup a relay server on another broadband connection to handle more streams as my current dsl will only allow me 16 max

dotme · 15th January 2009, 05:22

Legitimate relay servers are fine.

Brutish Sailor · 17th January 2009, 21:36

Quote:

Originally posted by paul.lee
What does this actually mean 'stuffing their listener counts and standing up fake sc_serv's'

What are people doing?

I hope my situation doesn't get affected. I was going to setup a relay server on another broadband connection to handle more streams as my current dsl will only allow me 16 max

This is what this message means: Shoutcast users get the option to be listed to the shoutcast public directory. Better ratings, the higher to the top you go.

SO! someone is "cheating" to get better ratings so they will be in the more ideal choice spots.

Your just getting webhosting? No problem. You got 100 apps of winamp running to boost your listing/ running a warez that makes ratings appear big= wrong.

jwhalen · 22nd January 2009, 10:53

good!

Jkey · 26th January 2009, 06:15

Quote:

Originally posted by Greg_E

The mods are probably way too polite to the people who were breaking the rules.

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....32#post2479132

There you go a place to mock a banned station

JimmyRibbitt · 16th March 2009, 08:30

Quote:

Originally posted by Tag
We are actively looking for people stuffing their listener counts and standing up fake sc_serv's in an attempt to get better listings.

If you are discovered, your entire subnet will be banned from the directory service.

The use of forwarding proxies is also not permitted, it too will result in a subnet ban.

That is all and Happy Christmas

That could potentially cause problems if anyone is listening to your station by way of a "web proxy" site, to get around workplace filtering.

"Php proxy" sites have the bad habit of not fully disconnecting, when a listener disconnects, cuasing the connection to "hang". I have seen that with my Live 365 station, and sometimes have to re-start the broadcast to get rid of any "ghost" connections.

Since Live 365 and Shoutcast use similar techology, this might become a problem.

You see, by using one of these proxies, you make it more difficult for the boss to know what you are up at your workstation, so people do use these to circumvent filtering at work.

JimmyRibbitt · 16th March 2009, 08:32

Quote:

Originally posted by paul.lee
What does this actually mean 'stuffing their listener counts and standing up fake sc_serv's'

What are people doing?

I hope my situation doesn't get affected. I was going to setup a relay server on another broadband connection to handle more streams as my current dsl will only allow me 16 max

Why dont you get an account on LoudCity or Live 365, where you can handle more listeners, without having to add more servers?

dj001 · 22nd March 2009, 08:15

Can I pm you 2 or 3 suspects to investigate?

Jkey · 22nd March 2009, 08:48

pm me i will investigate and add to the list if needed.

destroyerdotnet · 6th April 2009, 21:19

So, Ive been banned and havent heard back yet (ive pm'd Jkey) but i think i have an idea of what or how the problem has arose. We have been a station for over 5 years and would never want to risk being banned. zombie connections would just be stupid, we dont have b/w or processor to spare even. further, we play really really fringe music these days, alot of which is uncategorizable falsifying listeners of breakcore, speed jungle and noise seems more than a little ridiculous.

Some research on my end reveals....

I currently started using WHMsonic shoutcast admin plugins a few months ago. In the process of trying to move to the new sc_trans within their framework it became clear that i would have to replace whmsonic's SC_trans binary with newer beta versions.

There exists a situation at this point whereas either because of permissions issues or a still undetermined problem that sc_trans is not being killed when restarted but rather running extra copies. upon noticing these extra instances running, we've killed them (the processor kick up alone here is problematic enough)

Is it possible that this alone could create a ban situation? would per se, having 2 instances of sc_trans running once or twice for an hour or two create a ban?

If not, I'm guessing someone else on the subnet got banned.

Jkey · 7th April 2009, 11:48

Since i am well aware of your station for years,i will get it sorted hopefully.

The problem at the moment is that Tag used to deal with
the ban system but now hes left AOL.
I will forward on all requests for ban lifts shortly to the new person responsible.

Ive replyed to your pm sorry for the delay im very busy offline at the moment

destroyerdotnet · 9th April 2009, 00:18

hmm, yeah something changed... it now says...
"Your server has been permanently banned for providing falsified information"

is this a genre issue? i mean we play alot of different stuff and we are in the process of moving all our djs to using sctrans for djing so they cant screw it up. im baffled at this point to what the real issue is. if i had some idea i might make changes preemtively to comply. not being listed in the yp is kind of a bummer.

apply coffee algorithim?

*hmm, ive mispoken i just realized that the messages are intermittent, ... network banned / server banned. so maybe i should just be more patient.

Jkey · 9th April 2009, 08:19

ensure you are within the new genre structure.

Is the station listing at all now ?

destroyerdotnet · 9th April 2009, 15:37

hmm, well i guess i inadvertantly had electronica, drum and bass, breakbeat. I've changed it to Electronic, drum and bass, breakbeat. though i cant see that making a difference, and so far everything looks the same.

Jkey · 9th April 2009, 16:24

I have reported it if its not sorted in 7 working days come back and i will bump the issue.

destroyerdotnet · 14th April 2009, 08:05

cmon shoutcast yp....

cmon and touch me baby... you know i love you.

i miss the yp at shoutcast touched sensation.

you know you wanna touch me, and i want to touch you too. I miss you girl, miss your sweet sweet lovin.

why baby? why? don't stop touchin' me because of those other guys. you know I love you. those other guys on my subnet,... sh*t... they don't know what love is.

baby, please... you gotta listen to me. It wasnt me baby...

Jkey · 14th April 2009, 08:34

The attention of the sc team is elsewhere,maybe the switch to another datacenter would be quicker if you really want to be listed.

destroyerdotnet · 14th April 2009, 08:41

ah i just was being funny, but yeah... i could tell some stories... this aint the place to bash DC's that royally suck.

is probably in the works, no doubt.

hip tip: traceroute my location and avoid.

Jkey · 14th April 2009, 17:24

Folks...
To anyone else who find they have been banned from the yp
or any/all of SHOUTcast radio, I surgest you read:-
http://www.shoutcast.com/disclaimer

Quote:

Taken from the shoutcast disclaimer
24. Termination.
Your right to use SHOUTcast Radio automatically terminates if
you violate these Terms or any rules or guidelines posted in
connection with SHOUTcast Radio. We also reserve the right,
in our sole discretion, to terminate your access to all or
part of SHOUTcast Radio, for any reason, with or without
notice.

It is important to understand your rights while using
shoutcast so go and study the rules,it could just save you
alot of heartache and dissapointment if things go bad.

Jkey · 16th May 2009, 20:11

Folks this is not something i normaly do,But im going to name a station that is faking listeners and worst in the yp.

javabeats has constantly broken the rules and once banned returns.

This time they are not using a dnas but custom made software
that could pose a potential security risk to listeners.

This station may seem popular with almost 1000+ listeners but those listeners are entirely faked.

AOL have been informed again about the issue and hopefully will respond quickly.

In the meantime avoid tunning into this station.

just a heads up
J.

chuckeh · 16th May 2009, 21:19

There are a lot stations in the YP faking and they are not banned. It seems a bit un-important to me, that nobody cares about it.

Please do something!

Jkey · 17th May 2009, 09:43

Its not that aol dont care,its just that these stations return
quickly and the remaining shoutcast staff are busy with other things.

We both know chuckeh that there is a solution coming,its just when its going to be implemented thats a mystery right now.

But these stations are digging their own graves so to speak.
Because when it comes to them having to register for a station callsign they will be refused and never allowed to use any shoutcast services again.

So for a little boost in listeners they are actually doing the worst thing possible for their projects.

10th December 2008, 01:44	#1
Tag Streaming Media Expert Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado Posts: 141	YP ban advisory We are actively looking for people stuffing their listener counts and standing up fake sc_serv's in an attempt to get better listings. If you are discovered, your entire subnet will be banned from the directory service. The use of forwarding proxies is also not permitted, it too will result in a subnet ban. That is all and Happy Christmas

10th December 2008, 13:03	#3
bored_womble Winamp's Womble Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wimbledon Common Posts: 1,100	sounds a tad harsh .... but I suppose reality always is ! BW Without open minds the world will die. Open yours and correct the mistakes you are making right now.

10th December 2008, 13:55	#4
Greg_E Major Dude Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,687	Not harsh, something that may be overdue. Unfortunately banning the subnet may crush a few legitimate users. Your mileage may vary!

10th December 2008, 16:28	#5
Nick@ss Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Streamsolutions Headquarters Posts: 11,953	Has the ban system been working of late as we haven't had many complainers lately? www.streamsolutions.co.uk SHOUTcast \| Flash Media \| Windows Media \| Icecast 2 \| Content Delivery \|

10th December 2008, 18:52	#6
SC_faisal SHOUTcast (Alumni) Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 162	Happy Christmas indeed. Sgt. Tag layin down da law! f. SHOUTcast \| Winamp

10th December 2008, 19:23	#7
chuckeh SHOUTcast Freak Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NRW, Germany Posts: 323	Really great work! And good bye to all fakers SHOUTcast 2.0 - Install SHOUTcast Server - SHOUTcast iPhone App - sc_trans 2 BETA 5 Download - SHOUTcast Interface DNAS 2.0

10th December 2008, 20:45	#8
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	Ive already had pms there probably wont be many people publicly complaining as the stations targeted are breaking the rules. sticky'd so the msg is not lost So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

13th December 2008, 15:01	#9
Clausel Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 35	Legal Stations without fakes get banned. This sucks :/

13th December 2008, 15:06	#10
Nick@ss Moderator Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Streamsolutions Headquarters Posts: 11,953	If you are banned then there should be a reason. Drop Tag or Jkey a pm with the banned ip address and they will look when they have time. ps please keep your sig image in accordance with the rules or it will be removed. www.streamsolutions.co.uk SHOUTcast \| Flash Media \| Windows Media \| Icecast 2 \| Content Delivery \|

13th December 2008, 16:44	#11
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	if you feel you have been banned in error drop me a pm with the ip address and i will look into it for you. There are certain issues that i am concerned about myself regarding how stations are checked and banned. If it turns out that stations who are not breaking the rules are getting banned then thats a serious issue which must be addressed. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

15th December 2008, 18:24	#12
Tag Streaming Media Expert Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Fort Collins, Colorado Posts: 141	The policy is to ban the Subnet of the offending station, if we endup banning a legit station, please send me a PM so we can add your IPs to an exclusion list. The reason we ban subnets is because more often than not people who fake will move IP's quickly, usually in the same subnet, so this catches that behavior. I have already un-banned some legit stations due to this, if you find your station is not being listed and you're running a pure copy of sc_serv, I will remove the ban on your subnet. If you are running a fake server, scripted proxy or unapproved third party server you will NOT be un-banned.

15th December 2008, 18:35	#13
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	Thanks for taking the time to add clarification tag it is greatly appreciated. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

19th December 2008, 21:32	#14
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	Notice The pms are starting to flood in,please be aware that although i can speak to AOL staff on your behalf and find a reason for your ban once you have violated the shoutcast TOS there is no way to get yourself unbanned. Again i am happy to take pms and discuss bans so dont be affraid to contact me. Please note:- Over the christmas and newyear period it will take me longer to reply to pms as i wont be online as much. Having said that i will reply faster than Tag Please be patient i will respond.

19th December 2008, 22:53	#15
Greg_E Major Dude Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,687	Look... If you are banned because you broke the rules (and you obviously know you were breaking them) too damn bad, don't be such an idiot next time the opportunity comes up. The only PMs that should be sent are from those people who were not breaking the rules and got caught in the subnet ban. The rules are pretty easy to follow, so if you got caught breaking them, I have some harsh words for you (but will hold them back to be polite). I think you should post a list of people that were breaking the rules so that we can publicly abuse them. The mods are probably way too polite to the people who were breaking the rules. People should also remember that you get what you pay for, and the last time I checked the YP was still free. Your mileage may vary!

20th December 2008, 08:07	#16
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	tis the season to be jolly greg_E Besides what can be more fun than listening to a person who spent hours hacking a binary thinking they beat the system and then finding out that the system just kicked them in the balls Ive dealt with 1 or 2 that have been banned in error too really the polite behaviour of mods is for them.

20th December 2008, 14:55	#17
Greg_E Major Dude Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,687	I still think the cheaters should be hung by their virtual toes for all of us to throw rotten virtual food at. I do feel sorry for the legitimate users who get caught in this and wish there was a better way to do the banning, but I have no ideas how it could be done better. Your mileage may vary!

20th December 2008, 19:04	#18
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	As far as im aware it will be very different in the future, and cheating the system will be virtually impossible

15th January 2009, 01:00	#19
paul.lee Junior Member Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 6	What does this actually mean 'stuffing their listener counts and standing up fake sc_serv's' What are people doing? I hope my situation doesn't get affected. I was going to setup a relay server on another broadband connection to handle more streams as my current dsl will only allow me 16 max

15th January 2009, 05:22	#20
dotme Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 4,024	Legitimate relay servers are fine. Atlantic Sound Factory Licensed by StreamLicensing \| Powered by Fast Serv \| Radionomy Broadcaster

22nd January 2009, 10:53	#22
jwhalen Major Dude Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: ct Posts: 1,202	good!

22nd March 2009, 08:15	#26
dj001 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Who's asking? Posts: 452	Can I pm you 2 or 3 suspects to investigate?

22nd March 2009, 08:48	#27
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	pm me i will investigate and add to the list if needed. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

6th April 2009, 21:19	#28
destroyerdotnet Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 81	So, Ive been banned and havent heard back yet (ive pm'd Jkey) but i think i have an idea of what or how the problem has arose. We have been a station for over 5 years and would never want to risk being banned. zombie connections would just be stupid, we dont have b/w or processor to spare even. further, we play really really fringe music these days, alot of which is uncategorizable falsifying listeners of breakcore, speed jungle and noise seems more than a little ridiculous. Some research on my end reveals.... I currently started using WHMsonic shoutcast admin plugins a few months ago. In the process of trying to move to the new sc_trans within their framework it became clear that i would have to replace whmsonic's SC_trans binary with newer beta versions. There exists a situation at this point whereas either because of permissions issues or a still undetermined problem that sc_trans is not being killed when restarted but rather running extra copies. upon noticing these extra instances running, we've killed them (the processor kick up alone here is problematic enough) Is it possible that this alone could create a ban situation? would per se, having 2 instances of sc_trans running once or twice for an hour or two create a ban? If not, I'm guessing someone else on the subnet got banned.

7th April 2009, 11:48	#29
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	Since i am well aware of your station for years,i will get it sorted hopefully. The problem at the moment is that Tag used to deal with the ban system but now hes left AOL. I will forward on all requests for ban lifts shortly to the new person responsible. Ive replyed to your pm sorry for the delay im very busy offline at the moment So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

9th April 2009, 00:18	#30
destroyerdotnet Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 81	hmm, yeah something changed... it now says... "Your server has been permanently banned for providing falsified information" is this a genre issue? i mean we play alot of different stuff and we are in the process of moving all our djs to using sctrans for djing so they cant screw it up. im baffled at this point to what the real issue is. if i had some idea i might make changes preemtively to comply. not being listed in the yp is kind of a bummer. apply coffee algorithim? *hmm, ive mispoken i just realized that the messages are intermittent, ... network banned / server banned. so maybe i should just be more patient.

9th April 2009, 08:19	#31
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	ensure you are within the new genre structure. Is the station listing at all now ? So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

9th April 2009, 15:37	#32
destroyerdotnet Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 81	hmm, well i guess i inadvertantly had electronica, drum and bass, breakbeat. I've changed it to Electronic, drum and bass, breakbeat. though i cant see that making a difference, and so far everything looks the same.

9th April 2009, 16:24	#33
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	I have reported it if its not sorted in 7 working days come back and i will bump the issue. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

14th April 2009, 08:05	#34
destroyerdotnet Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 81	cmon shoutcast yp.... cmon and touch me baby... you know i love you. i miss the yp at shoutcast touched sensation. you know you wanna touch me, and i want to touch you too. I miss you girl, miss your sweet sweet lovin. why baby? why? don't stop touchin' me because of those other guys. you know I love you. those other guys on my subnet,... sh*t... they don't know what love is. baby, please... you gotta listen to me. It wasnt me baby...

14th April 2009, 08:34	#35
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	The attention of the sc team is elsewhere,maybe the switch to another datacenter would be quicker if you really want to be listed. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

14th April 2009, 08:41	#36
destroyerdotnet Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 81	ah i just was being funny, but yeah... i could tell some stories... this aint the place to bash DC's that royally suck. is probably in the works, no doubt. hip tip: traceroute my location and avoid.

16th May 2009, 20:11	#38
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	Folks this is not something i normaly do,But im going to name a station that is faking listeners and worst in the yp. javabeats has constantly broken the rules and once banned returns. This time they are not using a dnas but custom made software that could pose a potential security risk to listeners. This station may seem popular with almost 1000+ listeners but those listeners are entirely faked. AOL have been informed again about the issue and hopefully will respond quickly. In the meantime avoid tunning into this station. just a heads up J. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

16th May 2009, 21:19	#39
chuckeh SHOUTcast Freak Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: NRW, Germany Posts: 323	There are a lot stations in the YP faking and they are not banned. It seems a bit un-important to me, that nobody cares about it. Please do something! SHOUTcast 2.0 - Install SHOUTcast Server - SHOUTcast iPhone App - sc_trans 2 BETA 5 Download - SHOUTcast Interface DNAS 2.0

17th May 2009, 09:43	#40
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	Its not that aol dont care,its just that these stations return quickly and the remaining shoutcast staff are busy with other things. We both know chuckeh that there is a solution coming,its just when its going to be implemented thats a mystery right now. But these stations are digging their own graves so to speak. Because when it comes to them having to register for a station callsign they will be refused and never allowed to use any shoutcast services again. So for a little boost in listeners they are actually doing the worst thing possible for their projects. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode