Obama supports Syrian rebels.

[rockouthippie]

President Obama approved an additional $12 million in humanitarian assistance to Syria today, amid reports that he has also authorized covert aid to rebels who are seeking to topple the regime of Bashar Assad.

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...1#.UBroBLSe58E

[thinktink]

Why is it every time I turn around this lunkhead of a President is always managing to do what he can to destabilize every country that makes the news?!

Gah!

[DrO]

but isn't that the whole point of the US president (and most heads of state, etc) ? and from an external view point, he seems better than what went before or what is likely to come (mitt whatever just seems like a prat from what has been said over his 'european' visit).

-daz

[Warrior of the Light]

Originally Posted by thinktink

destabilize every country that makes the news?!

I think the Syrian government already did that for him.

[rockouthippie]

Romney gaffs were more interesting to the liberal press than they were to anybody else. As far as his comments about the UK Olympics... so what? Cameron said something more insulting than Romney did. Utah.. the middle of nowhere? That's the Northwest corner of nowhere thank you very much

As far as his comments about the Israeli culture making a decent country. Uh? So?

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said that "anyone who loves freedom and justice must strive for the annihilation of the Zionist regime in order to pave the way for world justice and freedom."

Now that's some pretty fucked up culture. It's not a wonder when you buy bullshit like that, you have a rough time.

OMG! He said something that you could interpret not to be politically correct if you twist it that way. His aid told a reporter to kiss his ass when she was being obnoxious. I'm not having a problem with this.

As far as Obama goes. I can't blame him for giving the Syrians some humanitarian aid or for providing a little logistical support to the rebels. They are up against WMD's, so we ought to be at least keeping an eye on what's going on.

It's probably more for our own intelligence gathering than any real wish to get involved or "destabilize" anything.

Bad guys, maybe even worse than Qaddafi, might end up in charge of Syria or Libya. We'll at least know em'.

Our involvement here is kind of a no brainer. Any President would be doing about the same thing.

Eventually, it wouldn't surprise me if the regime routed the rebels, and we wouldn't do much about it. The EU might. Probably not. Shades of East Timor.

[thinktink]

I'm still not convinced that the FSA has the absolute moral high ground necessary to deserve such support:
http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/201...-stirs-debate/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012...?newsfeed=true
http://news.yahoo.com/syrian-rebels-...200609653.html


In the end, they're just going to replace one thug in power with another, and all for the low low price of more blood.

[rockouthippie]

I don't think we are doing much more than monitoring a revolt. Like Libya, it isn't a revolt of our making so we don't get to choose how it works out.

[swingdjted]

Obama turned around a (literal) boatload of attack helicopters that was going from Russia to Syria. It was already en-route and rounding the European continent when Obama's meeting caused it to turn around and go back to Russia.

[rockouthippie]

In a arduous task that could have been performed by a burger flipper at Carl's Jr., Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said to the Russians .... BUSTED!

[swingdjted]

The turn-around happened right after an Obama-Putin meeting, although British officials had some strong influence too. I'll admit that many people would have made the same "request", but not all people. This likely saved a lot of murders by helicopter.

It's scary what's happening over there. We complain about our problems...

[rockouthippie]

No turn-around. They were BUSTED. A covert op, which they didn't want to be seen doing.

[swingdjted]

I realize that oceans are big, but this day and age, there's enough buoys, radars, and satellites to "bust" just about anything bigger than a fishing boat. Think about it, a large boat, perhaps disguised as a container ship, normal enough, except that it's leaving Russia and going to Syria. I would hope that it would raise some eyebrows.

I'll give plenty of credit to anyone in intelligence that found the boat, but turning it around was likely a world leader decision a.k.a. Putin and Obama as a result of that meeting.

[rockouthippie]

That's the thing. This didn't require any brain power by the President and no diplomacy by the Secretary of State. The Russians got caught with their hands in the cookie jar.

[thinktink]

Apparently, the Syrian rebels have made themselves a video response to the Syrian Government's rumored threat to gas the rebels with Sarin gas.

Danger! Video of graphic footage linked below:
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...g-To-Civilians

In case you don't want to view the video, it's mostly of what looks like video footage inside an unmarked room of a number chemical containers and later on the death of two rabbits with some kind of chemical gas weapon inside a clear container. The rabbits convulse and die, hence the warning.

[EDIT/]
Found a less choppy version on YouTube, don't know how long it will last though given the nature of the content.
Again, Danger! Video of graphic footage linked below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-6O-gApVrU#!

[swingdjted]

The article says it the other way around - gov't warning rebels.

Also - it looks too much like a dramatization, a fake, designed to bait war mongers or "false flag" as many say. Real death of rabbits by chemical weapon, but I'm guessing it's propaganda and isn't even produced by those it claims to be the authors.

[thinktink]

Originally Posted by swingdjted

The article says it the other way around - gov't warning rebels.

Which article? All the articles I've read thus far have said this was made by rebels and is, secondarily, the rebel's warning to civilians to leave the area before they gas Asshad (or however you spell whats-its-beasties name.)
http://www.syria-tribune.com/e/index...apons-in-syria
http://hotair.com/archives/2012/12/0...l-weapons-too/
http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9107125935

Originally Posted by swingdjted

Also - it looks too much like a dramatization, a fake, designed to bait war mongers or "false flag" as many say. Real death of rabbits by chemical weapon, but I'm guessing it's propaganda and isn't even produced by those it claims to be the authors.

Wow, I didn't know you were a seasoned Hollywood (Pallywood) producer that can spot fakes a mile away! Where did you hone those mad skilz?

[EDIT/]
Not that I like either side of this conflict really, or at all (and Obama's contribution to it even less):
http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-weapons-plot-532/

...They allegedly plan to use it against civilians and pin the atrocity on the Bashar al-Assad regime....

Double false flag operation?

Or double double false flag operation?

[swingdjted]

I read the article wrong, sorry about that.

I'm guessing sarcasm on the second part? I'm a bit off my game tonight apparently, not reading stuff right, but I still think it's just war-bait.

[thinktink]

Originally Posted by swingdjted

I read the article wrong, sorry about that...

You have my absolution (for what its worth) on that. Can't hold it against you especially since I've done that myself on occasion.

[rockouthippie]

and Obama's contribution to it even less

He gave em satellite Obamaphone, some munchies and some medical supplies. Chicago or Syria?

What else would you do?

[rockouthippie]

Because we supported the Taliban? Look how well that worked out.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/...e19_story.html

^Now we're gonna give them guns. It's a departure for our POTUS, the commie bastard. I'm sure the joint chiefs had to pull some fingernails out with pliers to get him to do the right thing. We're probably very late to the party. Maybe too late.

We really ought to disqualify bastards from being President. It takes someone with no daddy to really screw the pooch.

[Aminifu]

What's wrong rockouthippie? You now need to change word definitions to make a point.

[rockouthippie]

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/michelle...ng-death-daily

Michelle Obama - Kids are afraid of getting shot at school? Not in my hood. Somehow it's white bread racism 1500 miles distant that leads to the urban slaughter. I was listening to Larry Elder the other day. He had a woman on. All 4 of her children were killed in gang violence.

But not her fault. Must have been some distant white folks.

I was just thinking.... maybe if you moved... maybe if you didn't raise hoods... But, of course, mentioning that would be politically incorrect.

She is a victim. It must be assault rifle toting me that's the problem.

I got a new black neighbor. He's out here in the burbs with his kids. Shocked about how nice his neighbors are to him. Expecting to be screwed with. Not even a little.

So.. you put one foot in front of the other and walk your ass out of the hood... It's not even a long walk. I'll be making ribs later. BYOB.

Call me silly, but I would expect to be able to feed the neighbors some barbecue with no shots fired.

In my town this year... 3 murders.. three gangsters.. Do you see a trend?

[swingdjted]

Originally Posted by rockouthippie

So.. you put one foot in front of the other and walk your ass out of the hood... It's not even a long walk. I'll be making ribs later. BYOB.

I might stop by for some of those ribs, but it's not as easy for someone in the hood. You're right in that it's not a long walk, but it's an expensive one when you compare cost of living and transportation in the burbs vs. the hood. And, just like you said, it takes someone who is willing to try something new, which is especially hard when the urban culture will often hate the image of going 'oreo'.

Another thing; suburbs can often be lonely. You're surrounded by mostly people you don't know or talk to much. Maybe the guy right next door but not much further. In the city, you talk to every motherfucker as he passes your porch. More attention paid to things and less to people. There's just less comfort in conversation in the suburbs if you ask me. Perhaps this is just my experience, but I had a lot more fun in town.

[rockouthippie]

I think if my children were getting murdered, I'd take the walk before 4 of them were killed. Lonely... bummer... Lonely is when you have dead kids.

Portland isn't bad. If you'd like to walk your ass out of the hood and come here, nobody would fuck with you much. I never thought Oakland was particularly dangerous either despite it's rep.

New Orleans frankly scared the shit out of me. Washington DC is also a hole. You can get killed there for the hell of it.

[rockouthippie]

Chicago... Michelle... bullshit.. Chicago is a decent town with slayings limited to people asking for it. I'll grab a bone or an axe and we'll play some jazz. You've got to actually ask to get your shit shot off in Chicago. School children afraid? Not even in my day (hers too ... we are about the same age) Crime is way, way, way, way down since we were kids.

Maybe in 1970 you would be afraid to go to school. You kids kinda don't understand a real crime rate.

40 years ago when Michelle and I went to school it might have been dangerous to go to school. Today, you were just listening to liberal bullshit. If kids are afraid of anything, it's just propaganda.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by rockouthippie

Chicago is a decent town with slayings limited to people asking for it.

If only that were true, there would be no problem.

The drug dealing gang bangers with the cheap guns are hitting everything except what they are trying to aim at. Just the other day a stray bullet when through a school bus (in one side and out the other), fortunately no one was hit.

In some neighborhoods it is dangerous to sit near a window. Some people sleep in their bathtubs (the old fashioned sturdy kind). The sounds of gun fire (day and night) is a weekly, sometimes daily, occurrence. People are getting shot every day, some die. Check the websites of the local Chicago newspapers (and many incidents are not reported).

I live here, in one of these neighborhoods. My block has a strong block club organization, so my block is relatively safe. I often hear the gun fire a few blocks away. The main problem is lack of jobs for the under-educated and miss-educated young people. People need money and they will try to get it anyway they can.

You can run/walk away (if you are only concerned for yourself), but you can't hide. I want to live here and try to help, one person at a time.

You sit in Portland and say crime in Chicago is way, way, way, way down. I would laugh, but the reality is so sad.

[rockouthippie]

I'm glad you're trying to make a difference. Chicago's murder rate is down 39% this year, so something is mattering.

[Aminifu]

I feel you are trying to be compassionate, but implying the murder rate being down is a good thing, misses the point. The maiming rate is up. Guys and gals who can't shoot straight, current medical technology, and doctors doing excellent work to save lives, is what's keeping the death rate down. But men, women, and children ending up crippled for the rest of their lives is just as much a tragedy, if not more so, imo.

Beyond the pain and/or physical struggles of the individuals hurt is the economic hardship placed on the families (and the greater community since most of these people are poor) to care for them.

I say again jobs are needed. Call it socialism if you want, but a massive public & private 'make work program', doing whatever, is needed to stem the tide of violence. Maybe a return to vocational education instead of teaching to pass the tests would help too. There will never be enough white collar jobs for even the qualified people needing work, more blue collar jobs paying a decent wage must be created.

Too many of the young people I try to talk to see no future for themselves. They see the gap between the haves and have nots increasing and the pathways 'up and out' decreasing. They are fighting, running, ducking, and simply trying to live day to day. And these are not the gang bangers. The gang bangers I've talked to are content to live a short, and for them, glorious life. They see too many around them who are trying to work legally, barely making enough to meet basic living expenses. This is a definite change from the attitude and outlook of the general group (good people and bad) around me when I was their age.

[rockouthippie]

Crime hasn't been this low since the early 60's.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Justice...a-is-safer-now

I remember when there were places where the cops would ignore calls because they were too afraid to go. (Parts of Chicago included). Now they actually show.

Even if you were right, I don't see how a law spawned because of the statistically insignificant white mass shooters helps your neighborhood. I don't even think it can stop the statistically insignificant mass shootings.

You're complaining about the cheap guns? No help there. Pissed off urban youth? Nope.

We can manage to get people who shoot a wall off the street at the cost of 1 million dollars, her children in foster care and 20 years of her life.

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...nd-her-ground/

Please sign me up for more government "assistance". The cure is worse than the disease....

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by rockouthippie

... statistically insignificant ...

Well that is a comforting way to look at things, ... NOT. Lets hope you are never part of that statistic.

[rockouthippie]

Your odds of being killed in a mass shooting was 83/311,000,000 for 2012. That's 2X10^7. Not even one in a million. .2 in a million? Stray bullet hits are extremely rare too. Life is terminal.

I'll take my chances. Especially since there is no way this gun bill would improve my odds in any significant way or yours.

There are ways to move the needle. Probably none of them involve law enforcement. Our problems are largely a result of poverty. Something we also largely give lip service to.

Will I get shot or will I have a heart attack reading my tax bill?

It's like the ADA. We told Obama that our health care was too expensive. He said "That will be full price and you will pay it or get fined". "Don't worry... your insurance rates will go down".... yeah...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/0...n_2932704.html

Up 25 to 116%... that must be liberal math.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by rockouthippie

Your odds of being killed in a mass shooting was 83/311,000,000 for 2012. That's 2X10^7. Not even one in a million. .2 in a million? Stray bullet hits are extremely rare too.

Tell that to the folks who went to see that Batman movie or the parents of the kids in Connecticut, etc. Stray bullet hits are rare, except where they are not.

The trouble with statistics is they can be used to prove or disprove almost anything.

Originally Posted by rockouthippie

Life is terminal.

I do agree with that. As soon as you're born, you start to die.

[rockouthippie]

Tell that to the folks who went to see that Batman movie or the parents of the kids in Connecticut, etc. Stray bullet hits are rare, except where they are not.

Yes. It's so rare there is nothing to do except tell them we are really sorry about their loss. There is nothing to do. You could try to figure out who is a crazy. You could increase security every place. You'd always guess wrong.

Your opinion is to support gun control in a "one size fits all" federal mess. Your laws are already stricter than that. Virginia is one of the reddest in the country. Oregon is pretty tough. California is really tough.

All these ... tougher than the federal proposal ... in states that already had laws tougher than the one proposed.

I'm not even arguing that there shouldn't be gun control. I would probably argue for less or more depending on the proposal. What I am arguing with is that our President is making a big deal about a bill that doesn't do anything.

It's much like the GOP fucking with Obama about Benghazi. A waste of time. Shit hit the fan. Let's go on a good witch hunt.

[Aminifu]

It's not about that bill. The gun lobby was successful in watering it down. Obama was talking about the overall issue and rightfully so, imo.

Assault weapons and 100 round magazines are not needed for home defense. I agree with Vice President Biden, a shotgun is sufficient. I like the single barrel, pump action style.

[swingdjted]

The sound of bringing the round from the magazine to the chamber is plenty to get rid of someone. Personally, despite not having quite that same sound, I love the look of my side-by-side, and it does make a nice heavy-metal clack after I load it split and swing it straight. The other nice thing about the side-by-side: it's an old-style double-trigger. That means you may choose to pull both triggers at once if you want to clear the whole room.

Put it this way. If there's a dramatic night-time break-in, and you get out of bed to investigate, you don't really have your perfect eyesight to take a well-aimed shot. A shotgun addresses this. One shotgun shot is actually a hundred or more chances of hitting your target. Pull two triggers of a side-by-side, and your chances double, especially since the pellets hit each other upon leaving the barrels and therefore spread a lot more. It's a sawed-off effect without being illegal or ruining a good hunting gun.

I don't need a lot of rounds to do this. One or two does 'juuuussssst fine'.

On the other hand, that sort of thing doesn't really lend itself well to mass-killings. It just really messes up someone or a few people temporarily if necessary to get rid of a threat and nothing more. When you can show that you did no more than the minimum to eliminate the threat on the stand, a jury is more likely to favor your argument if your case is brought to court.

Kind of a win-win situation really.

[Aminifu]

Originally Posted by swingdjted

Personally, despite not having quite that same sound, I love the look of my side-by-side, and it does make a nice heavy-metal clack after I load it split and swing it straight.

My mom was raised in the country and she had one like that. She got rid of it when I was 7 or 8. The thing I remember most about that rifle was how long it was. Kinda like what Jed Clampett was using when he discovered oil.

[rockouthippie]

Obama was talking about the overall issue

Obama seized the opportunity to look bravely, indeterminately blue, knowing nothing was going to happen. Why doesn't the government just pass some "gun buy" money and these kids will clean themselves out for us for a bag of weed.

Now he's fighting on a bill that didn't do anything. Next project.

Buy the cheap guns. Put them in the crusher.

The sequestration is the problem right now. I could really give a damn about gun control. Lead.... or cut a deal... or whatever...