Song is stuttering when changing songs

[sammybotz]

I am using sc_serv2_linux_x64_11_29_2013.tar.gz

When other people listen to my stream it works fine until another song starts, then the song starts stuttering (not playing normally). I am using 128kbps.

I have a centos-5.5-x86_64 VPS in the United States that shoutcast is installed on and am now visiting the Philippines which is where the source is on OtsAV.

Any suggestions how I can make the next song stream normally without starting to stutter (which requires the user the stop and start the stream to resolve).



Thanks very much

[DrO]

what player is it stuttering in?

[jaromanda]

I'd say it's the SOURCE that is causing the problem

[DrO]

i blame comet Ison but without anything to know, who can say

[jaromanda]

My thoughts about this go like this:

DNAS receives a continuous source stream and sends it to the player

the player plays the stream

there is nothing significant about change of song that should cause stuttering - not even bad handling by the player of in-stream metadata, because in v1 that gets sent at regular (known) intervals far less than the length of one typical song - I'm not 100% sure how song data is sent in v2, but I'd guess that it also is not sent just when the song changes

so, if the player was crapping out on song data, it'd do it not just when the song changes

which is why I concluded that the source (OtsAV) is the most likely culprit (behind comet Ison of course)

[DrO]

my initial though is it's something like a flash player being used and it's not liking the in-stream metadata update (though depending on the flash player i.e. site player, then the build of the v2 DNAS being used should be filtering such things out) but the source being the issue is also valid. and behaviour on the updates should be the same but not all clients like how things are done and it could be that due to the timing of things, it's getting put in mid-frame which the client then doesn't like and thus causes the stuttering (as i've wanted to do something about that in the v2 DNAS so it'll prevent against such things but that turned out it was going to need licensing to be paid due to having to do small decoding of the frame data *joy* ).

and what you've said is perfectly valid if it turns out not to be a client-side issue. but until we get clarification, we're just not going to know

[sammybotz]

Sorry for the delay. I did not get an email when anybody replied, sorry

I now embedded the shoutcast player into the website and will find out tomorrow if that solves the problem and I will also update this thread with what player was being used while getting the stuttering.


Thanks so much for your responses. Its 2:13 AM here now in the Philippines. Thanks again.

[sammybotz]

I am waiting for a moderator to approve my reply. Seems odd.

[sammybotz]

When I click the yellow reply link I can post immediately. When i use the quick reply box on the bottom it waits for a moderator to approve my post (as I did with my long post before). I am waiting now. Also if a moderator can make it so I get an email when someone replies to my thread I would appreciate it. It says I dont have permission to get into my own control panel. Thanks again.

[sammybotz]

Okay I embedded this code below into the website. They click play and the music starts playing. Same thing though when going into another song, it starts stuttering. This is the same shoutcast player they were using before its just embedded into the website now instead of going directly to the shoutcast website to listen to the stream. So same problem with stuttering when transitioning into another song with the shoutcast player. The embed code is below I used and wondering any tips you might think is the problem to keep the music playing smoothly from one song to the next. Thanks very much for your guys help on this.


<embed src='http://www.shoutcast.com/media/popupPlayer_V19.swf?stationid=http://yp.shoutcast.com/sbin/tunein-station.pls?id=*****&play_status=1' quality='high' bgcolor='#ffffff' width='398' height='104' name='popupPlayer_V19' align='middle' allowScriptAccess='always' allowFullScreen='true' type='application/x-shockwave-flash' pluginspage='http://www.adobe.com/go/getflashplayer' ></embed>

[jaromanda]

seems odd that in 14 hours all you've done is reply saying you can't reply properly and you want email notification ... yet, those two posts could've contained some information like what the player was that had the stuttering problem

[sammybotz]

I am in a different time zone, sorry

The player is being played from a local business office so I had to wait until they responded to me.

So I was wrong at first. They played the same shoutcast player both times. The first time from the shoutcast website and now from the embedded code on their website.

So it's stuttering using the shoutcast embedded or non embedded player.

Does anyone know how I can fix the stuttering problem. My OtsAV settings are below:
Encoder type: MP3
Encoder Settings: 128kbps 44.100kHz, Stereo
Input Device: Winamp (recommended)

I downloaded the shoutcast plugin for OtsAV from Step 1 of the below website:
http://docs.otslabs.com/OtsAV/help/u...st_plug-in.htm


Thanks for any feedback. Since I don't get an email response I will keep this browser open on my computer. Thanks again.

[sammybotz]

I am testing using the OtsAV program on my computer with my personal music just for testing. When I get this to work properly I will go down to the actual radio station, and since there using the OtsAV program for there radio station, I will simply go to the options page and set my VPS IP number and password to stream there radio content live on there website.

So below is a link to there website which I just started but I am using my music as a test. Please go to the below link and click the play button and notice when going into another song it will stutter.

http://www.sunnyfm.org/butuan-city-radio/


Thanks again for any help you can provide as I would like to get the radio station there own stream on the website.

[jaromanda]

the player you embedded, winamp and the flash application that I wrote all stutter at the change of song as you described

watching the buffers in winamp, the buffer is depleted on change of song - there is a brief moment of the new song before this though, after a moment of silence, there can be a stutter (not always), then play resumes normally until the next song change

oddly, buffering in my flash application does not deplete (although, I think that's a bug in my buffer status display), there's the first fraction of a second of the new song, silence, a bit of a stutter, then it continues to play

this shoutcast plugin OtsAV uses is OLD ... and this "warning" ... (file size should be 492KB if correct installer with v1.9.0 inside, therefore do not download the version directly from shoutcast.com). ... makes it sound extremely dodgy (and unsupported)

[jaromanda]

IMPORTANT FINAL STEP: Once the installation is complete, in order to use the AAC+ encoding option, you need to copy the file enc_aacplus.dll from C:\OtsLabs\Winamp\Plugins\ to C:\OtsLabs\Plugins\

Even more dodgy ... this sort of support and instructions for using an encoder that is licensed to shoutcast/winamp/aol whatever in other software is frowned upon by Orban ... just ask oddsock

I was able to resurrect Edcast (until I lost interest 2 years ago) because I followed this advice from Orban - "The fact that you don’t distribute the Winamp .dll or any references to it, are what will make everyone happy."


Sorry about the off topic - but, it leads me to suggest using the dsp_edcast.dll instead of the old winamp dsp_sc.dll in OtsAV - as described http://forums.shoutcast.com/showthread.php?p=2517523 (ignore the illegal discussion about AACPLUS )

[sammybotz]

Thank you very much jaromanda for taking a look at this for me.

As the radio station only uses OtsAV to play there music can you think of anything I can do to get this to work?


Thank you

[jaromanda]

Originally Posted by sammybotz

Thank you very much jaromanda for taking a look at this for me.

As the radio station only uses OtsAV to play there music can you think of anything I can do to get this to work?


Thank you

I edited my previous post ... try edcast DSP plugin - it can be used in OtsAV apparently

[sammybotz]

I was posting at the same time as you DrO, so I did not see your post yet. Is there anyway I can get the latest version of the shoutcast DSP plugin for winamp located at the below link to work with OtsAV ?

http://download.nullsoft.com/shoutca...-2-windows.exe



Thank you

[sammybotz]

Okay, I shall try edcast DSP plugin and keep you posted. Thanks again.

[jaromanda]

Originally Posted by sammybotz

I was posting at the same time as you DrO, so I did not see your post yet. Is there anyway I can get the latest version of the shoutcast DSP plugin for winamp located at the below link to work with OtsAV ?

No - based on the fact that someone asked exactly that in OtsAV support forum, and was told "Ots hasn't done any further development in that area." (not that they've EVER done any development in that area ... "stealing" old tech is not developing

I tried using v2 shoutcast DSP in a project I was making (purely for my own use) - I think it's extremely difficult (near impossible) to use the v2 shoutcast DSP outside of winamp (edit: I was right, it's impossible - see DrO post above )

[DrO]

Originally Posted by jaromanda

(edit: I was right, it's impossible - see DrO post above )

not impossible, just tricky but that's the case for anything trying to re-use things not intended to be run in a different program from what it was designed to be used with

as most of it would require re-implementing a number API methods used by the Source DSP natively in it to allow it to work outside of Winamp sans the limitations in newer 5.5+ API. so if i was really bored i could do it but that's then helping companies who cannot be bothered to do things correctly (and legally).

[DrO]

extremely dodgy indeed and is because they're leveraging old Winamp code to not have to do it themselves natively. and if it's using the v1.9 Source DSP then that's going to explain a lot of the issues as that's at least 8years old and is massively behind the current Source DSP release which generally fixes all of the issues that version had.

so jaromanda you got it right, it's going to be the source which is the reason for the listener issues

[DrO]

the official v2 Source DSP will not work in OtsAV because it was designed to only work in Winamp 5.5+ (since it's a Winamp plug-in and so changes were made to ensure that the best in-Winamp experience could be provided).

it's not hard for the api aspects needed to be implemented in programs that claim to be able to load Winamp plug-ins (though they only target v2.x compatibility which is shockingly sad to only aim for a 15yrs old api). then again, it's not hard to convert the v2 Source DSP to be able to work outside of Winamp again... but it would then be limited in a number of areas due to a complete lack of API support for things e.g. artwork and metadata.

[jaromanda]

not that the buffer setting is the cause of the issue, but it could possibly solve the issue

[DrO]

yeah, i know the wiki needs to be updated, just have a number of other things going on which means there's not the time to do it so is always best to refer to what's included with the DNAS directly anyway.

[jaromanda]

Would I be right in saying that DNAS 1 had a fixed buffer size, and that for a 128k stream, it'd be around 15-20 seconds worth? Just wondering, if OtsAV + dsp_sc worked with DNAS 1, perhaps setting the buffer to 20 seconds would make OtsAC + dsp_sc work with DNAS 2

hmmm ... am I now also helping OtsAV get away with stealing old tech?

[DrO]

i can't remember what the v1.x DNAS did but i believe it was a fixed buffer size. and yes to the last question.

[sammybotz]

I am getting no where quick as a newbie here. Hate that. Once learned it takes one minute, until then I feel like an idiot.

Anyways where can I set the buffer size?


Also if this matters, my music on my system is recorded at 192kbps but I chose 128kbps in Ots.


Thank you

[sammybotz]

When trying edcast Ots AV says Bass.dll is missing. I could not get to the site where I needed to download the AAC file. Would you happen to have a direct link to the download?

Hopefully that has the Bass.dll file its asking for.


Thank you

[sammybotz]

I finally got edcast running but the song did not play and shoutcast directory did not update and no metadata info. Also I cannot get this file if needed: The AAC file for edcast.

Still dont know where to change buffer size for shoutcast.

Thank you

[jaromanda]

Originally Posted by sammybotz

I finally got edcast running but the song did not play and shoutcast directory did not update and no metadata info.

wouldn't surprise me, you have to fiddle with settings (there is a help file that comes with edcast) - I wouldn't worry too much about that, you want to test if edcast fixes your problem first, then worry about setting up edcast properly only if it does

Originally Posted by sammybotz

Also I cannot get this file if needed: The AAC file for edcast.

You were streaming MP3 with shoutcast, so why would you change to AAC?

Originally Posted by sammybotz

Still dont know where to change buffer size for shoutcast.

Read the help that came with DNAS - or http://wiki.winamp.com/wiki/SHOUTcas...etwork_Buffers

Honestly, I don't think edcast will make a difference, because it's heavily based on dsp_sc, to OtsAV it's going to "look" just like dsp_sc. Your best bet is the buffer setting in the DNAS config file. In fact, the absolute best bet (and DrO will hate me for suggesting it) is to find DNAS v1 and use that - after all, OtsAV is using old tech anyway, the old source streamer works best with the old DNAS is how I look at it.

[sammybotz]

what file do i change buffer size in?

thank you

[jaromanda]

Originally Posted by sammybotz

what file do i change buffer size in?

thank you

your configuration file (the one with all the configuration information in it)

if you don't see the buffer size options in the config file, create them e.g.

buffertype=0
fixedbuffersize=256000

or

buffertype=1
adaptivebuffersize=15

(yes, I would recommend 15 seconds, as that is how long the delay was in DNAS v1) ... if 15 seconds works, try to lower it bit by bit until you find a sweet spot ... you'll have to restart DNAS after each change

[sammybotz]

jaromanda, your a genius. the config file i have is sc_serv.conf for version sc_serv2_linux_x64_11_29_2013.tar.gz. The only thing in that file is:

adminpassword=************
password=**********
requirestreamconfigs=1
streamid_1=1
streamauthhash_1=************
buffertype=1
adaptivebuffersize=15

Anyways I added the buffertype=1
adaptivebuffersize=15 to the file as you suggested. Called the company and they listened and when transitioning into another song they got no stuttering. Thank you so much.

While I was typing this to you I just noticed the stream stopped by itself. I see this logged into my VPS. Do you know why it stopped ?

2013-12-06 04:33:05 INFO [YP] Cleaning up socket at yp.shoutcast.com:80
2013-12-06 04:33:05 INFO [STATS] Peak numbers: #1:3,Total: 3
2013-12-06 04:33:05 INFO [BANDWIDTH] Total: 88306879, Sent: 32256836, Recv: 56050043
2013-12-06 04:33:05 INFO [MAIN] Shutdown after 1 hour 31 seconds running