Success of OGG depends on us ...

[mickyx65it]

so lets start converting our MP3's to OGG. Here is a list of programs to convert:
http://www.vorbis.com/software.psp?pid=2

There are even programs to batch convert.....and then share it through our usual P2P program.

The sooner we start, the better. I already started.

micky

[YtseJam]

I don't see the point in converting my .mp3's to .ogg...

I mean, Hell, I'll all for OGG Vorbis, all of my recently bought music albums were encoded to .ogg format but converting my .mp3's to .ogg? I already lost some degree of quality while moving to .mp3, converting my .mp3's to .ogg will just make me lose even More quality...

I think it'd be better if from now on, people will encode to .ogg and not to .mp3.

Once I'll unlazy myself, I'll just reencode my old albums to .ogg as well.

[baafie]

Converting from MP3 to Ogg results in quality loss. End of story.
Ripping your albums to Ogg is all good, though.

[papadoc]

This is what really concerns me.
People who don't know anything about lossy compression.
More and more ogg files are showing up on WinMx,
and probably other FSP's too.
How do I know they aren't reencoded from mp3 to ogg,
like this dude wants to do.

[Hawk]

Originally posted by baafie
Converting from MP3 to Ogg results in quality loss. End of story.
Ripping your albums to Ogg is all good, though.

What's even worse is that NooBs that converted their mp3's to ogg and start sharing them across P2P program's will be the ones that give the ogg format a bad name. The quality of their files will be sub-standard

[mickyx65it]

OK guys. First, I'm delighted to see how much concern there is about quality. In fact music is all about quality. So all of you guys are technically right, and I trully appreciate it.

However my point was the following; 90% of the people uses Windows, Office, JPG, Explorer, out of many other OS's, programs and file formats. Sounds familiar with MP3?

How to get out of this dead end street? One answer is to create the critical mass to persuade the rest of the bounch to use OGG and start encoding with OGG instead of MP3. Without that critical mass, OGG will stay like LINUX, StarOffice, TIFF, and Netscape. And again miss the opportunity to get proprietary software off of our backs.

That is why considering that people in general are not as unlazy as you guys, I think that converting all of our MP3 to OGG, (even if we loose a 1 or 2% of quality) might be a quick way to start fogetting about MP3.

micky

[baafie]

Consider this.

The average computer user and mp3 listener doesn't care about patenting or licensing at all. Most people don't even know mp3 is a nonfree format. Why would they change to ogg? to save hard drive space. However, reencoding mp3 to ogg results in quality loss, so most people who know of the loss won't reencode.

Furthermore, the only thing ogg needs is advertisement: every mp3 user should know that ogg is right there for them to use; but not to reencode.

[papadoc]

Originally posted by mickyx65it
(even if we loose a 1 or 2% of quality)

1% or 2% in itself doesn't sound like allot of loss.
But when you add that 1 or 2% to what's already gone,
it becomes considerably larger.
Especially on mp3's encoded at a lower rate (128 for example)
Maybe I'm a perfectionist when it comes to quality of sound.
I don't plan on redoing my library, I plan on rebuilding it.

originally posted by baafie
Furthermore, the only thing ogg needs is advertisement:every mp3 user should know that ogg is right there for them to use; but not to reencode.

Keyword is "should".
I spent this weekend lurking around a few PSP forums.
You'd be surprised to see how many people are planning on
reencoding their entire mp3 library to ogg.
Scary...
What's needed with advertisement...is education.

[sub1zero]

Forget ogg. i want yo se dolby's AAC become the new standered from what i read its the best one out there but is barely around because of it not being popular ACC intends to offer "up to 48 channels of audio, sample rates of up to 96 kHz, and can achieve ITU-R broadcast quality at 320Kbps for a 5.1-channel audio program,"

and i would never convert all my mp3's to OGG or anything else cause i have too many and that would be stupid

[Hawk]

Originally posted by sub1zero
Forget ogg. i want yo se dolby's AAC become the new standered from what i read its the best one out there but is barely around because of it not being popular ACC intends to offer "up to 48 channels of audio, sample rates of up to 96 kHz, and can achieve ITU-R broadcast quality at 320Kbps for a 5.1-channel audio program,"

I really can not read what you are trying to say here. What country are you from???

[QHOBBES]

with 48 channels of audio and sample rates of 96khz file size is gonna be through the roof. besides who has a 48 channel sound card and
48 speakers to go with it?

[slacker52]

Originally posted by baafie
Why would they change to ogg? to save hard drive space.

ummm. i tried that, i set cdex to encode one of my songs as both mp3 and ogg at 128kbs, and the ogg was ~100kb larger. maybe i didnt do it right but thats what happened

[baafie]

Have you not noticed the difference in quality? Generally, 128kbps ogg (use the quality setting instead of CBR whenever you can) sounds like a 192kbps mp3. So you get better quality music that takes less space.

[sub1zero]

Originally posted by Hawk


I really can not read what you are trying to say here. What country are you from???

looks like junior is trying to start a fight other people in here seen to understand it so hawk get off these forems and go get a life

[sub1zero]

Originally posted by Hawk


What's even worse is that NooBs that converted their mp3's to ogg and start sharing them across P2P program's will be the ones that give the ogg format a bad name. The quality of their files will be sub-standard

thats true, most mp3's i find on kazaa are low quality or eithir off the radio or even worse have silences in them

[slacker52]

Originally posted by baafie
Have you not noticed the difference in quality? Generally, 128kbps ogg (use the quality setting instead of CBR whenever you can) sounds like a 192kbps mp3. So you get better quality music that takes less space.

i redid my test with a different song, set the ogg quality to the max and the ogg was larger, the quality was about the same. a slight difference in bass, thats it, and as far as im concerned, its nnoot worth the extra 6 meg. if im wrong because i encoded wrong let me know, otherwise im not gonna attempt another ogg, but stick with mp3
btw i used cdex 1.50 beta 6, and the song was "megadeth-anarchy in the uk"

[slacker52]

ok i set the quality to 2 settings, 0 and 4.99, the sound just isnt as rich as a 128kbs mp3. and whenn i weigh them in i get[ogg at 4.99, mp3 at 128kbs] ogg=3,184kb, mp3=2,824kb. maybe the whole idea of quality is a higher pitch sound, if so screw it, im not converting. but in a relative sense to you guys ima n00b, if i did bad let me know what i did wrong again and ill attempt another rip.

[Hawk]

Originally posted by sub1zero


looks like junior is trying to start a fight other people in here seen to understand it so hawk get off these forems and go get a life

No duder I am from the Netherlands so please write English. I *really* could not understand what you wrote. We are not all from the US on the net and English is not everybody's native lingo. It's not that hard to understand now is it?

Just imagine dat we allemaal in een andere taal of accent gingen schrijven. Zou dat je bevallen??? Got it?

[sub1zero]

Originally posted by Hawk


No duder I am from the Netherlands so please write English. I *really* could not understand what you wrote. We are not all from the US on the net and English is not everybody's native lingo. It's not that hard to understand now is it?

Just imagine dat we allemaal in een andere taal of accent gingen schrijven. Zou dat je bevallen??? Got it?

if you can't understand it then go on some forums thats speak your lingo then i mean im not a speach writer

[papadoc]

Originally posted by sub1zero
if you can't understand it then go on some forums thats speak your lingo then i mean im not a speach writer

You need to get off your high-horse my friend.
(Especially since you're on a 3-legged horse anyway)
There are allot of people who come here from different places.
Some write good English...some don't.
Using incorrect English is no reason to tell someone to get lost.
If that were the case, this forum would be a very lonely place.

[Hawk]

Originally posted by baafie
Have you not noticed the difference in quality? Generally, 128kbps ogg (use the quality setting instead of CBR whenever you can) sounds like a 192kbps mp3. So you get better quality music that takes less space.

Yeah I did notice that. I heard on of my favorite songs on ogg vorbis and switched in a second The better compression is great to. And it was about time the mp3 format was getting pretty old

[QHOBBES]

i cant encode oggs with cdex 1.5 beta 6, i just keep getting a file the size of 22.5kb. Anywayz now maybe games will start using oggs.
GTA3 can play mp3s but if it would have played oggs only it would help
with its popularity and kept the cost down.

[slacker52]

geez QHOBBES, i usualy got a filsize reading of 0kb just one question, which would need more system recources to decompress, ogg or mp3? cuz hey, if it takes up less recources the game may go more smoothly

[baafie]

The website says the ogg encoder takes about equal system resources. It feels like it takes less that LAME, though.

[Diabolica]

NO NO NO, don't use CBR. Anytime you encode something, be it divx or ogg or aac or anything, use VBR methods. If you use 96kbit ABR Vorbis, you'll get excellent results.

[tjohanne]

Hi guys

I just downloaded OggdropXPd from http://www.vorbis.com/download_win.psp and converted a .wav file.

But when I play the file in WinAmp and look at 'file info', it says 'version: 0'.

How can I be sure that OggdropXPd converts the files to OGG V.10?

Apart from me being a bit confused, OggdropXPd seems great and the quality is great too.

I'll start converting to OGG from now on and not to mp3

That being said, I like MiniDisc as well... great stuff

[rm']

Originally posted by mickyx65it
However my point was the following; 90% of the people uses Windows, Office, JPG, Explorer, out of many other OS's, programs and file formats. Sounds familiar with MP3?

How to get out of this dead end street? One answer is to create the critical mass to persuade the rest of the bounch to use OGG and start encoding with OGG instead of MP3. Without that critical mass, OGG will stay like LINUX, StarOffice, TIFF, and Netscape. And again miss the opportunity to get proprietary software off of our backs.

I just don't see this happening; I know people who still refer to mp3s as "napster files". Your average, run-of-the-mill user who gets the majority of his audio files from a filesharing network does not care/know about the quality differences between different formats. He/she already has a large collection of mp3s, feels comfortable with them, and sees no reason to change. Let's face the facts: the majority of people who listen to music on their computer did not rip the files by themselves. Want proof? Go download any song from a popular filesharing network (i.e. KaZaa), and you'll see that there are various versions of the same rip; each version carries the same errors, etc.

I don't expect OGG to be a global phenomenon like MP3. The format will never die though; it's freely available, so even if the rest of the world isn't using it, you can. I guess what I'm trying to say is that don't worry if OGG doesn't go fully mainstream. You can still enjoy OGG, and in the end, that's all that really matters. Who really cares what your neighbours are doing?

[slacker52]

Originally posted by rm'


You can still enjoy OGG, and in the end, that's all that really matters. Who really cares what your neighbours are doing?

all bow to the mighty 'rm and his good points

[Wizard]

Originally posted by tjohanne
But when I play the file in WinAmp and look at 'file info', it says 'version: 0'.

How can I be sure that OggdropXPd converts the files to OGG V.10?

If "file info" in Winamp says:
vendor :
Xiph.Org libVorbis I 20020717
then its v1.0

[sub1zero]

I tried OGG and its like only 1% better than mp3 and what does it shave off the file size just 2 or 3k what a joke.OGG IS DOOMED!

[Wizard]

Originally posted by sub1zero
I tried OGG and its like only 1% better than mp3 and what does it shave off the file size just 2 or 3k what a joke.OGG IS DOOMED!

You didn't say how you tried OGG, what settings you used. I'm sorry, but your post says nothing of importance

[Russ]

(This isn't really a response to anyone, I just felt like rambling about this )

It's really hard to compare these effectively, when you know what is what. The best thing to do is to listen to oggs and MP3s of all types on a regular basis, and you tend to build up a gut feeling of what's better.

What I know is that ogg at 160kbps (VBR) is of comparable quality to MP3 at 256kbps (VBR), which is about a 60% size saving.

I do sound engineering as a sort of hobby, and I have $1000 worth of listening equipment hooked up to my computer (decent, solid, pro listening equipment - not that gold-plated audiophile shite, but that's another flame ), and I really couldn't pick much between MP3 and ogg.

If I were to make any observations, I'd say that ogg's stereo is slightly better (although that might be due to bigger treble). I think the treble in general is much brighter and clearer (although some people could interpret that as lacking in bass).

[apollos]

Hmm.. If only WA3 ID3 tags and Goldwave liked OGG

[slacker52]

Originally posted by RussGarrett
(although some people could interpret that as lacking in bass).

yep thats me, but i myself dont like high trebble and less bass, or the mere sound of high treble and less bass, it gives me a headache

[apollos]

Originally posted by Sawg


Peter's wa3Plugz has Ogg tag support.

Cool! I didn't think there was one! Will I find it in the plugins section on this site?

[Russ]

http://www.blorp.com/~peter/zips/wa2update.exe for Winamp 2

http://www.blorp.com/~peter/zips/wa3plugz_482.exe for Winamp3 build 482.

[apollos]

Thanks for the link!!



This plugin rocks!!

[peter]

something you folks should have a look at:
http://ff123.net/64test/results.html

[Wizard]

Wanna take OGG to the limits?
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/...&threadid=2879

[COtto1984]

the creator of this thread said it right, but in a wrong way. it is our job to help spread ogg, but we must do it right. we must help advertise and educate people, mostly including our friends. make sure they know that re-encoding mp3s is not a good solution and will only corupt oggs reputation.
COtto