Compression Methods

Freeman II · 12th October 2002, 23:52

- Is there any other compression methods available for NSIS besides zlib or bz2?

- if not how can we add other compression methods? (hope it's not too complicated)

- my last question is not NSIS related. What is the best compression method out there? personaly i think winace is the smallest.

Yathosho · 13th October 2002, 09:25

personally i use rar. the discussion was on before, rar for instance has to licensed to be integrated into nsis . i guess its a similiar issue with ace.

Joost Verburg · 13th October 2002, 10:04

kichik is working on the integration of LZMA compression (www.7-zip.org), which is about 25% smaller than BZip2 for me.

Koen van de Sande · 13th October 2002, 10:15

LZMA sounds cool enough

13th October 2002, 12:30

Wow, LZMA compression is really good (even if it's a bit slow).
Will this be integrated anytime soon in NSIS (say, before beta0 is released)?

Joost Verburg · 13th October 2002, 12:43

Quote:

Originally posted by Netsabes
Wow, LZMA compression is really good (even if it's a bit slow).
Will this be integrated anytime soon in NSIS (say, before beta0 is released)?

Compression is a bit slower of course, but decompression is fast. It won't be integerated in beta 0, but I hope that kichik will have it ready soon.

Yathosho · 13th October 2002, 13:36

if i remember correctly, winrar's documentation describes how to compress using the rar-algorithm using winrar's very own .dll. this should at least let registered (and trial) users of winrar use rar compression. i'm not sure about legal issues, but that should be documented aswell. this could leave the option to winrar users to compress using rar.

(Win)RAR Homepage

Joost Verburg · 13th October 2002, 13:56

If you want to use another compression method, it's always possible to use DLL's, but integration in NSIS makes it much easier.

Integrating RAR won't be very useful, because LZMA compresses much better.

Lion King · 13th October 2002, 16:25

rar.dll is only for decompression, you'd have to buy rar to compress the data, not to mention the big overhead in the installer because of that dll
using the unrar source code which is available at www.rarlabs.com would be better, additionally you'd have to build an interface to winrar.exe into makensis
unace sources aren't available afaik

lzma doesn't always compresses better than rar, because rar has special compression schemes for multimedia files, images or text files (ppmd) buildin

anyway I vote for using only opensource compression algorythms in nsis

G3NeRiX · 13th October 2002, 16:57

rar is better then zip. Go with rar, my friend.

Joost Verburg · 13th October 2002, 17:27

I have tested a lot of files (executables, graphics, text etc.), LZMA always gives me better results than RAR.

Lion King · 13th October 2002, 21:11

did you test rar 3.0?
and 7z? 7-zip also has ppmd implemented which is not part of lzma, ppmd is responsible for good compression of text files
7z uses multiple algorithms: http://www.7-zip.org/7z.html but it doesn't have special treatment for multimedia files yet

or did you force 7zip to use only lzma compression?

Joost Verburg · 13th October 2002, 21:20

I used only the LZMA compression of 7-zip and RAR 3.0. I didn't use that many text files, maybe PPMD is a little better for 'em, but most software packagers don't have many text files.

16th October 2002, 17:42

Speaking of compression:

If you use the bzip2 compression, you should try to pack your installer with UPX (http://upx.sf.net/). Without it, you have to wait for the installer to have uncompressed the data (it's a bit slow because of bzip2), but with UPX, the installer is shown instantly.

This is very useful if you have a big installer (and if it takes some time to uncompress) :)

kichik · 16th October 2002, 17:58

Huh? What does UPX has to do with bzip2 compression?

16th October 2002, 18:06

Hmm, I must be dumb, it works without UPX too. Did you update the bzip2 code between a7 and the current cvs? I suppose it must be that.

kichik · 16th October 2002, 18:52

Yes, some bugs have been fixed in the CVS version that caused it to load slower.

shantanu_gadgil · 17th October 2002, 14:05

Could we get some method of a "degree of compression" versus "speed" facility.

Say, if we compress the stuff with a compression level of say 5/9 then we have a trade off between size and speed.

I don't know whether different levels are possible in zlib2, bzip or lzma, but RAR does, so hey, go RAR !

- Shantanu

shantanu_gadgil · 17th October 2002, 14:11

I think decompression speed is also very important. I forgot to mention in the previous post... Why not ZIP ?

- Shantanu

Joost Verburg · 17th October 2002, 14:38

ZIP gives very bad compression ratio's.

LZMA decompressses fast

kichik · 17th October 2002, 15:59

You can change BZip2 compression ratio in config.h and recompile.

LZMA is free, RAR is not. LZMA can be integrated into NSIS, RAR will have to use an external program to compress and decompress (149KB DLL or implemented source). LZMA is already being implemented into NSIS. RAR is not free. Joost have tested a lot and says LZMA compresses better than RAR. To compress with RAR one will have to buy it and install it after he installs NSIS. Have I mentioned RAR is not free?

Freeman II · 17th October 2002, 16:39

where can i get NSIS with LZMA intergrated?

kichik · 17th October 2002, 16:43

Quote:

LZMA is already being implemented into NSIS.

It is not ready yet. I am working on it

Freeman II · 17th October 2002, 16:47

Thanks

n0On3 · 17th October 2002, 17:54

so, LZMA compresses better than RAR? And ACE?

I remember I tried 7-zip with disappointing results.

kichik · 17th October 2002, 18:04

Are you sure you compressed using 7z and not Zip?

Joost Verburg · 17th October 2002, 18:17

The 7z format (which uses LZMA) is quite new (last version I think).

n0On3 · 18th October 2002, 00:04

I am sure I used 7z format and not zip.
The version I used was 7-Zip v2.30 beta 19, from the end of May 2002.
Now, I am going to download again and test.

rainwater · 18th October 2002, 01:57

Quote:

Originally posted by n0On3
I am sure I used 7z format and not zip.
The version I used was 7-Zip v2.30 beta 19, from the end of May 2002.
Now, I am going to download again and test.

The comparison should be to zlib and bzip2. Rar and Ace are not free therefore are not available. Based on what I've been told, for a larger number of files, lzma is even better than zlib and bzip2.

Player 1 · 19th October 2002, 03:58

UPX is an EXE compressor
http://upx.sourceforge.net/

shantanu_gadgil · 19th October 2002, 12:02

OK, now I understand why NOT RAR...

What I was saying about the compression level is that, how about an option to set the compression level (say CompressionLevel ?) from within the script

One more thing..._WHATEVER_ compression algorithm you guys use pleeease use whichever one is FREE

!!!

- Shantanu

12th October 2002, 23:52	#1
Freeman II Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37	Compression Methods - Is there any other compression methods available for NSIS besides zlib or bz2? - if not how can we add other compression methods? (hope it's not too complicated) - my last question is not NSIS related. What is the best compression method out there? personaly i think winace is the smallest.

13th October 2002, 09:25	#2
Yathosho Forum King Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: AT-DE Posts: 3,185	personally i use rar. the discussion was on before, rar for instance has to licensed to be integrated into nsis . i guess its a similiar issue with ace. Winamp: Fossil 2002 III \| My AVS Presets \| visboTVisbot \| PimpBot \| How to setup AVS? NSIS: Sublime Text Packages \| NSIS-Linker.user.js \| highlight.js \| Icons & Graphics \| Twitter

13th October 2002, 10:15	#4
Koen van de Sande Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 269	LZMA sounds cool enough Koen van de Sande Van de Sande Productions TibEd.net \| VPatch

13th October 2002, 13:36	#7
Yathosho Forum King Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: AT-DE Posts: 3,185	if i remember correctly, winrar's documentation describes how to compress using the rar-algorithm using winrar's very own .dll. this should at least let registered (and trial) users of winrar use rar compression. i'm not sure about legal issues, but that should be documented aswell. this could leave the option to winrar users to compress using rar. (Win)RAR Homepage Winamp: Fossil 2002 III \| My AVS Presets \| visboTVisbot \| PimpBot \| How to setup AVS? NSIS: Sublime Text Packages \| NSIS-Linker.user.js \| highlight.js \| Icons & Graphics \| Twitter

16th October 2002, 17:58	#15
kichik M.I.A. [NSIS Dev, Mod] Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 11,338	Huh? What does UPX has to do with bzip2 compression? NSIS FAQ \| NSIS Home Page \| Donate $ "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." -- Confucius

13th October 2002, 10:04	#3
Joost Verburg NSIS MUI Dev Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,717	kichik is working on the integration of LZMA compression (www.7-zip.org), which is about 25% smaller than BZip2 for me.

13th October 2002, 12:30	#5
Netsabes Guest Posts: n/a	Wow, LZMA compression is really good (even if it's a bit slow). Will this be integrated anytime soon in NSIS (say, before beta0 is released)?

13th October 2002, 13:56	#8
Joost Verburg NSIS MUI Dev Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,717	If you want to use another compression method, it's always possible to use DLL's, but integration in NSIS makes it much easier. Integrating RAR won't be very useful, because LZMA compresses much better.

13th October 2002, 16:25	#9
Lion King Major Dude Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,670	rar.dll is only for decompression, you'd have to buy rar to compress the data, not to mention the big overhead in the installer because of that dll using the unrar source code which is available at www.rarlabs.com would be better, additionally you'd have to build an interface to winrar.exe into makensis unace sources aren't available afaik lzma doesn't always compresses better than rar, because rar has special compression schemes for multimedia files, images or text files (ppmd) buildin anyway I vote for using only opensource compression algorythms in nsis

13th October 2002, 16:57	#10
G3NeRiX Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: USA - Home of the Slightly Retarted and Mentally Challenged Posts: 23	rar is better then zip. Go with rar, my friend.

13th October 2002, 17:27	#11
Joost Verburg NSIS MUI Dev Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,717	I have tested a lot of files (executables, graphics, text etc.), LZMA always gives me better results than RAR.

13th October 2002, 21:11	#12
Lion King Major Dude Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,670	did you test rar 3.0? and 7z? 7-zip also has ppmd implemented which is not part of lzma, ppmd is responsible for good compression of text files 7z uses multiple algorithms: http://www.7-zip.org/7z.html but it doesn't have special treatment for multimedia files yet or did you force 7zip to use only lzma compression?

13th October 2002, 21:20	#13
Joost Verburg NSIS MUI Dev Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,717	I used only the LZMA compression of 7-zip and RAR 3.0. I didn't use that many text files, maybe PPMD is a little better for 'em, but most software packagers don't have many text files.

16th October 2002, 17:42	#14
Netsabes Guest Posts: n/a	Speaking of compression: If you use the bzip2 compression, you should try to pack your installer with UPX (http://upx.sf.net/). Without it, you have to wait for the installer to have uncompressed the data (it's a bit slow because of bzip2), but with UPX, the installer is shown instantly. This is very useful if you have a big installer (and if it takes some time to uncompress) :)

16th October 2002, 18:06	#16
Netsabes Guest Posts: n/a	Hmm, I must be dumb, it works without UPX too. Did you update the bzip2 code between a7 and the current cvs? I suppose it must be that.

16th October 2002, 18:52	#17
kichik M.I.A. [NSIS Dev, Mod] Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 11,338	Yes, some bugs have been fixed in the CVS version that caused it to load slower. NSIS FAQ \| NSIS Home Page \| Donate $ "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." -- Confucius

17th October 2002, 14:05	#18
shantanu_gadgil Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pune, India Posts: 72	Could we get some method of a "degree of compression" versus "speed" facility. Say, if we compress the stuff with a compression level of say 5/9 then we have a trade off between size and speed. I don't know whether different levels are possible in zlib2, bzip or lzma, but RAR does, so hey, go RAR ! - Shantanu

17th October 2002, 14:11	#19
shantanu_gadgil Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pune, India Posts: 72	I think decompression speed is also very important. I forgot to mention in the previous post... Why not ZIP ? - Shantanu

17th October 2002, 14:38	#20
Joost Verburg NSIS MUI Dev Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,717	ZIP gives very bad compression ratio's. LZMA decompressses fast

17th October 2002, 15:59	#21
kichik M.I.A. [NSIS Dev, Mod] Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 11,338	You can change BZip2 compression ratio in config.h and recompile. LZMA is free, RAR is not. LZMA can be integrated into NSIS, RAR will have to use an external program to compress and decompress (149KB DLL or implemented source). LZMA is already being implemented into NSIS. RAR is not free. Joost have tested a lot and says LZMA compresses better than RAR. To compress with RAR one will have to buy it and install it after he installs NSIS. Have I mentioned RAR is not free? NSIS FAQ \| NSIS Home Page \| Donate $ "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." -- Confucius

17th October 2002, 16:39	#22
Freeman II Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37	where can i get NSIS with LZMA intergrated?

17th October 2002, 16:47	#24
Freeman II Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2001 Posts: 37	Thanks

17th October 2002, 17:54	#25
n0On3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barcelona Posts: 314	so, LZMA compresses better than RAR? And ACE? I remember I tried 7-zip with disappointing results.

17th October 2002, 18:04	#26
kichik M.I.A. [NSIS Dev, Mod] Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Israel Posts: 11,338	Are you sure you compressed using 7z and not Zip? NSIS FAQ \| NSIS Home Page \| Donate $ "I hear and I forget. I see and I remember. I do and I understand." -- Confucius

17th October 2002, 18:17	#27
Joost Verburg NSIS MUI Dev Join Date: Nov 2001 Posts: 3,717	The 7z format (which uses LZMA) is quite new (last version I think).

18th October 2002, 00:04	#28
n0On3 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Barcelona Posts: 314	I am sure I used 7z format and not zip. The version I used was 7-Zip v2.30 beta 19, from the end of May 2002. Now, I am going to download again and test.

19th October 2002, 12:02	#31
shantanu_gadgil Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Pune, India Posts: 72	OK, now I understand why NOT RAR... What I was saying about the compression level is that, how about an option to set the compression level (say CompressionLevel ?) from within the script One more thing..._WHATEVER_ compression algorithm you guys use pleeease use whichever one is FREE !!! - Shantanu

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