color & luma keying

goebish · 24th September 2002, 09:45

I use lots of avi&bmp in my presets...I think it would be really great to have color&luma keying in the input/output mode in presets list....I know my english is bad and I hope you'll understand this wish

dirkdeftly · 24th September 2002, 19:21

You shouldn't use BMP or AVI if you don't have to. Remember, not everyone has broadband.

But that brings up another wish: JPG/GIF/PNG/PICT/etc. compatibility...

(Sorry to take away from the thread)

Carry on...

goebish · 1st October 2002, 10:03

I use lot of bmp/avi files in my presets but they're only to be shown at parties... ( e.g http://vfx0.free.fr/VFX-Bzh-24-08-2002.avi )....but if animated gif files were supported (with transparent color) that would be perfect

UnConeD · 1st October 2002, 13:01

GIF is evil

. PNG or MNG.

www.burnallgifs.org

dirkdeftly · 1st October 2002, 15:49

PNG is huge. GIF or JPEG.

www.theonion.com

skupers · 1st October 2002, 16:32

PNG is the format of the future. It looks better and has better features, not least of those being a alpha channel. I use PNG (48-bit RGB with Alpha Channel) when rendering from 3dsmax. PNG-support in AVS would rule.

dirkdeftly · 2nd October 2002, 02:04

PNG is good for SOME things. JPEG is good for SOME things. GIF is good for SOME things. BMP isn't good for ANYTHING. They need to change it somehow, I don't care to what, they just need to change it. (also you should be able to do 'keep aspect ratio' on both axes. and they need a wider variety of render blends so you don't have to do a seperate effect list.)

UnConeD · 5th October 2002, 01:56

No no no, you got it wrong

.

JPEG is good for some things.
PNG is good for some things.

GIF is obsolete.

It's as simple as that. If you take an identical GIF and PNG, the PNG will be smaller (Atero: provided they have the same color depth! don't compare an 8-bit GIF with a 24-bit PNG). Except maybe for those cheezy animated gif's that no-one uses. Though I think that's what MNG is for.
This is not a "Playstation 2 vs X-Box" or whatever issue where the argument can go on forever. PNG is open, patent-free, more efficient and more featured than GIF. That's really it. Anyone who claims otherwise has never done any serious graphic work

(I'm a 'pixelspotter').

jheriko · 5th October 2002, 03:57

Quote:

Originally posted by UnConeD
GIF is obsolete.

I've been saying that for years. The fact that I have been saying it for years is supportive evidence for that fact too.

.png and .jpg are nice but I think it is possible to push compression even further.

Quote:

[i}Originally posted by Atero [/i]
BMP isn't good for ANYTHING

.bmp is fast to load (not that that matters these days) due to lack of compression (by default) and the simplicity of the file format.

[OFFTOPIC]
.bmp is good for me because I haven't gotten around to learning how to load a .jpg or .tga into a data structure of use to me for making a texture from.
[/OFFTOPIC]

I think that we could do with some alterative file types supported by render/picture or render/avi just because it can keep the size of our packs down.

UnConeD · 5th October 2002, 14:52

I'll see if I can't whip up a better Render / Picture. I believe Intel has a free JPEG library, and I could use libpng for PNG.

I also think the current render picture is waaaaay too slow. I think it scales the image in realtime. A much faster approach would be to scale it once and keep that in a buffer (bilinear filtering anyone?

)

Zevensoft · 5th October 2002, 15:42

Well, loading a JPG should actually be faster than BMP, because of the fact that less bandwidth is used. The only reason it's sometimes slower is because it needs to be decoded, which is slow.

Have 3 options for enlarge (None, Bilinear, Median) and 2 options for shrink (None, Anti-Aliased).

Do you reckon you could make it anti-alias the EXACT amount (For each pixel) by calculating the area of each subtexel in each pixel? Or would that be too hard.

goebish · 12th October 2002, 12:41

intel have a fre jpg library, it's ijl15.dll

here's a pic of what i want to do with 1 avi (the fractal) and the picture (mask):

http://vfx0.free.fr/chromakeying.jpg

UnConeD · 13th October 2002, 00:50

Quote:

Well, loading a JPG should actually be faster than BMP, because of the fact that less bandwidth is used. The only reason it's sometimes slower is because it needs to be decoded, which is slow.

I wouldn't dream of decoding a JPG realtime every frame. Even if you do gain speed from having to read less data, JPG is not very memory conservative when it comes to decoding it, so it'd be slower anyway.

As I said:

Quote:

A much faster approach would be to scale it once and keep that in a buffer (bilinear filtering anyone?)

That pretty much explains it. Asidee from photorealistic images, AVS pictures tend to be low-color ones. Using a RLE scheme should give a minor speed increase as well.

Karnov · 20th October 2002, 17:15

Quote:

BMP isn't good for ANYTHING

i disagree
what if you are stuck at someone's house who doesnt have the money for nice editing programs, and doesnt have the bandwith to download them?
ill answer for you: You are stuck with MSPaint
that is one of the few occations when .bmp is ok
(and gif sucks)

UnConeD · 20th October 2002, 20:59

Even paint can do GIF and JPG from Win98+

Karnov · 22nd October 2002, 02:24

yeah but thats only if you are willing to navigate a pulldown menu

DoH!

(if forgot about that, and now i feel dumb)

24th September 2002, 09:45	#1
goebish Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: an UFO near planet earth Posts: 164	color & luma keying I use lots of avi&bmp in my presets...I think it would be really great to have color&luma keying in the input/output mode in presets list....I know my english is bad and I hope you'll understand this wish Get more APEs

24th September 2002, 19:21	#2
dirkdeftly Forum King Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Cydonia, Mars Posts: 2,651	You shouldn't use BMP or AVI if you don't have to. Remember, not everyone has broadband. But that brings up another wish: JPG/GIF/PNG/PICT/etc. compatibility... (Sorry to take away from the thread) Carry on... "guilt is the cause of more disauders than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings

1st October 2002, 10:03	#3
goebish Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: an UFO near planet earth Posts: 164	not for sharing.... I use lot of bmp/avi files in my presets but they're only to be shown at parties... ( e.g http://vfx0.free.fr/VFX-Bzh-24-08-2002.avi )....but if animated gif files were supported (with transparent color) that would be perfect Get more APEs

1st October 2002, 15:49	#5
dirkdeftly Forum King Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Cydonia, Mars Posts: 2,651	PNG is huge. GIF or JPEG. www.theonion.com "guilt is the cause of more disauders than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings

2nd October 2002, 02:04	#7
dirkdeftly Forum King Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Cydonia, Mars Posts: 2,651	PNG is good for SOME things. JPEG is good for SOME things. GIF is good for SOME things. BMP isn't good for ANYTHING. They need to change it somehow, I don't care to what, they just need to change it. (also you should be able to do 'keep aspect ratio' on both axes. and they need a wider variety of render blends so you don't have to do a seperate effect list.) "guilt is the cause of more disauders than history's most obscene marorders" --E. E. Cummings

1st October 2002, 13:01	#4
UnConeD Whacked Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 2,104	GIF is evil . PNG or MNG. www.burnallgifs.org

1st October 2002, 16:32	#6
skupers Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: the Netherlands Posts: 207	PNG is the format of the future. It looks better and has better features, not least of those being a alpha channel. I use PNG (48-bit RGB with Alpha Channel) when rendering from 3dsmax. PNG-support in AVS would rule.

5th October 2002, 01:56	#8
UnConeD Whacked Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 2,104	No no no, you got it wrong . JPEG is good for some things. PNG is good for some things. GIF is obsolete. It's as simple as that. If you take an identical GIF and PNG, the PNG will be smaller (Atero: provided they have the same color depth! don't compare an 8-bit GIF with a 24-bit PNG). Except maybe for those cheezy animated gif's that no-one uses. Though I think that's what MNG is for. This is not a "Playstation 2 vs X-Box" or whatever issue where the argument can go on forever. PNG is open, patent-free, more efficient and more featured than GIF. That's really it. Anyone who claims otherwise has never done any serious graphic work (I'm a 'pixelspotter').

5th October 2002, 14:52	#10
UnConeD Whacked Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 2,104	I'll see if I can't whip up a better Render / Picture. I believe Intel has a free JPEG library, and I could use libpng for PNG. I also think the current render picture is waaaaay too slow. I think it scales the image in realtime. A much faster approach would be to scale it once and keep that in a buffer (bilinear filtering anyone? )

5th October 2002, 15:42	#11
Zevensoft Major Dude Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Ballarat, Australia Posts: 529	Well, loading a JPG should actually be faster than BMP, because of the fact that less bandwidth is used. The only reason it's sometimes slower is because it needs to be decoded, which is slow. Have 3 options for enlarge (None, Bilinear, Median) and 2 options for shrink (None, Anti-Aliased). Do you reckon you could make it anti-alias the EXACT amount (For each pixel) by calculating the area of each subtexel in each pixel? Or would that be too hard.

12th October 2002, 12:41	#12
goebish Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: an UFO near planet earth Posts: 164	maybe another ape by Unconed? :) intel have a fre jpg library, it's ijl15.dll here's a pic of what i want to do with 1 avi (the fractal) and the picture (mask): http://vfx0.free.fr/chromakeying.jpg Get more APEs Last edited by goebish; 12th October 2002 at 13:10.

20th October 2002, 20:59	#15
UnConeD Whacked Moderator Join Date: Jun 2001 Posts: 2,104	Even paint can do GIF and JPG from Win98+

22nd October 2002, 02:24	#16
Karnov Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Narok<Where I live<Valhalla Posts: 165	yeah but thats only if you are willing to navigate a pulldown menu DoH! (if forgot about that, and now i feel dumb)

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