Microsoft compares WMP 9 Seies to RealONE, Winamp 3, and iTunes 3

[StreetWalker]

Hi "Wish you were a Major Dude":

Winamp2 had that long before MS even developed WMP7.

But now MS has joined the game with 3rd party support to make it "infinitely extendable".

Everything else Winamp can do through plugins, and thats been available LONG before WMP7/8/9 was out. Winamp is infinitely extendable, MS is just starting to catch up?

Please don't worry so much, WinAmp3 will be ok - I like it - it's better than WinAmp2. It'll be a year before you feel the pinch! ]

MS WMP, jack of all trades, Master of NONE.

You sound too..... defensive and insecure in your aruments....I promise not to laugh to hard when it's all over. Ok?

Street

[Gonzotek]

You are all completely and totally ignoring the fact that Winamp3 is designed from the start to be cross-platform. WMP is only available for MS-based systems(PPC2002 and PCs). Considering the movements by major governments, corporations, and the trial(s) against MS, many people are looking at other Operating Systems. Winamp will be available to a much larger population than Media Player, even if the individuals choose not to use it, it will be available. As devices like tablet pcs, digital jukeboxes, and other specialized media electronics come out, Winamp, or the technology that powers Winamp, WASABI, will be available for them.

Microsoft will be busy trying to lock down your music for you with DRM(which is a battle that will NEVER be won), while Nullsoft will be busy making your music available to you in more places and in new & innovative ways.

Also, just because MS has opened up development possibilities for third parties, it doesn't automatically follow that developers will embrace the platform. It may have an awful API, poor documentation, or any number of other flaws in its concept. Winamp2 has literally hundreds of input and output plugins, in addition to the general purpose, dsp, and eye candy plugins. Winamp3's sdk is infinitely more powerful and flexible than the Winamp2 API AND Nullsoft already has a legion of third party developers interested in developing for Winamp, not WMP.

-=Gonzotek=-
-And yes, I am obviously biased, no need to point it out.

[AloneInTheDark]

Actually I use Winamp, but before this, i was a user of Windows Media Player, until i started hate it for its limitations (first of all the bad tag editor). Each new version of Winamp is much better of previous; WMP, in the last years, has changed only the aspect...

[StreetWalker]

Originally posted by Gonzotek -And yes, I am obviously biased, no need to point it out. [/B]

I hope both WinAmp and WMP thrive in a competetive spirit! We all win when this happens.

[Gonzotek]

Originally posted by StreetWalker


I hope both WinAmp and WMP thrive in a competetive spirit! We all win when this happens.

Definitely agree. Competition makes both parties improve strive to improve.

-=Gonzotek=-

[Wildrose-Wally]

When AOL bought Nullsoft, they did not buy a media player, they bought a young company with good ideas. Take a look at Wasabi, cross platform applications, and not just for a media player. Take a look at Nullsoft Streaming Video, the new video format only WA3 will play, and one-third the file size of a mpg file, with a very good quality. Due to the smaller file size, very good for streaming, might AOL be thinking of taking on Real Player?
So while you're all comparing the media player, which neither AOL or Microsoft cares very much about, the real value is in the other technology that comes with it.

As a footnote, in my media player I do not want a CD burner, tag editor, CD ripper, etc. I have other programs for those duties, and since they were designed for that, they tend to do a better job at it.

[slacker52]

Originally posted by wildrose-wally
As a footnote, in my media player I do not want a CD burner, tag editor, CD ripper, etc. I have other programs for those duties, and since they were designed for that, they tend to do a better job at it.

true, and i was hoping someone else would say that before i did, cause thats how i swing:
cd burner-nero
audio player-winamp2x
video player-ashampoo-jplayer(btw this looks similar to winamp)
cd ripper-cdex
internet browser-IE
instant messenger-icq-trillion
p2p progs- (too many)

do we realy need all this in 1 prog? cause i only have 256 meg of ram

[Hawkaloogie]

I bet it won't be long before someone finds a faeture that lets you take remote control of a system...

Bet no more...
M$ HAS DESIGNED THAT FEATURE!

It's called Windows Messanger
(not MSN Messanger)

and it allows any computer you authorize to basically "become" your computer, make changes to it, move your mouse around for you, open programs for you, etc...

[binary hero]

Originally posted by Hawkaloogie


Bet no more...
M$ HAS DESIGNED THAT FEATURE!

It's called Windows Messanger
(not MSN Messanger)

and it allows any computer you authorize to basically "become" your computer, make changes to it, move your mouse around for you, open programs for you, etc...

actually, it was invented by hackers about 2-3 years ago now (in the form of back orifice 2k).

and it is called remote assistance

and it's MS, or microsoft, not M$.

[nipponese]

Mmmmm.... this is page is untrue. iTunes does to have Mini–Player Mode, Full Screen A/V Controls (well, audio, at least), Fast Streaming, Auto File/Folder Monitoring, Auto Info for Tag Matching, and Advanced Tag Editor. Microsoft is dumb. Apple is smart. That is all.

[xzxzzx]

Originally posted by Hawkaloogie
Bet no more...
M$ HAS DESIGNED THAT FEATURE!

It's called Windows Messanger
(not MSN Messanger)

and it allows any computer you authorize to basically "become" your computer, make changes to it, move your mouse around for you, open programs for you, etc...

First of all, it's called "Remote Desktop" or "Remote Assistance". Secondly, it's a simple extention of what's been in Windows 2000 for a long time - AKA, the RDP protocol - AKA, Terminal Server. This, however, has existed for many years. PcANYWHERE, "Back Orifice" (with a plug in), VNC, et cetera.

[Edited for spelling]

[NameGoesHere]

If winamp3 could just play .rm & .ram files off file or CD I could trash my RealONE crap collector. All it does is show me a bunch of features that I can't use unless I pay a big fee! As for WMP, it slows down my computer and it's just bulky looking. The 9series runs like a turtle on crack on my computer, this I found out after I spent hours downloading it on a 56k! I may not know about a lot of that technical stuff as far as the differences between WMP and winamp3, but I certainly know that winamp3 has been very nice to me in the very short time that I've had it. All I need is something to play my frickin' music, not something to constantly bother me about downloading a new security feature for an aspect of the program I don't even use!

Now, in a burst of complete "college football game" type behavior...
WINAMP RULES!!!!

[Examancer]

Originally posted by Phily Baby
Mini–Player Mode - Got
Full Screen A/V Controls - Got
Fast Streaming - Got
5.1+, 24–bit, 96khz Audio - via plugin
20–bit HDCD Playback - via plugin
Variable Speed Playback - via plugin
Lossless CD Copy - don't want bloat
Auto File/Folder Monitoring - wtf? bloat?
Auto Info for Tag Matching - wtf? blaot?
Advanced Tag Editor - dont want bloat
Auto Playlists with Dynamic Update - let me control my own play list
High Performance CD Burning - don't want bloat
Premium Music and Video Services - don't want to spend

Fuck WMP9!

no, winamp does not have fast streaming. this is in reference to a new technology taht WMP9 and RealOne have to allow nearly instant buffering of streamed video. Winamp does not have this.

Also, winamp does have an advanced tag editor for audio files. hopefully they add one for video. also, via plugin it supports highspeed burning.

[dez93_2000]

Seems to me that the world as a community is growing tired of the shiny souless commercial shit that's been poured down our throats for so long. Reality TV shows are losing favour. I predict the slow demise of the MTV style 'glossy but substance free' music acts starting in the next year or two. People are beginning to revolt against the identityless crapola of the world and seek out quality.

Look at this forum. Winamp was/is a pared-down 'does what it says on the tin' mp3 player, but because of its 'by the people for the people' attitude (as well as its many other obvious qualities) it's become the locus for a huge chunk of the online music community.
Contrast this against the general hate of Microsoft. StreetWalker, you claim not to be affiliated to Microsoft, and maybe you're not, you've just swaggered into a forum of people who like something and dissed it, now you're in a corner and don't want to give any ground, so won't admit any Microsoft faults.
"Microsoft is a winner by anyones (sic) definition and you young people would be fortunate to be accepted as one of there (sic) developers"

1. Old people should have paid attention in English grammar classes.
2. You can stop bowing to Gates, he can't see you from atop his cashpile.


Ok, so Nullsoft are friendly and Gates is a twat. WMP9 still rules, etc., you might say. (And pretty much have, I just can't be bothered to find & quote).
1 point conceded: WMP plays videos to a sufficiently high level to justify its downloading, even though one rarely has the choice.
But there aren't any other points I'm going to concede. WMP is bloated and sucks memory out of weak machines like my laptop, where I have to stop every 5 minutes for it to catch up. (maybe I should rescind my concession...). If you gleefully accept the trade-off of monitor space over nice round buttons and useless sidebars, you either have a huge monitor or a huge hole in your cranium where your sense should be.
I'm have no knowledge of programming, but am otherwise a highly competent WindowsIBM-PC user, and I still haven't got into the irritating, awkward, counter-intuitive playlist system, thus I'm skeptical about how well someone with a very poor grasp of computing is expected to throw together & manipulate playlists without some hefty hairloss involved.

All the clichés used in this thread fit. Jack of all trades, master of none, style over substance, etc. At least RealNetworks live and breathe media-playing, and since they're clawing desperately to the marketshare they're trying to innovate and please their users. (IMHO it still sucks though...) Are Mighty Microsoft(TM)(R)(C)?
Sure, the new high priced bells and whistles for ripping to their format seem lovely. But for those that live and breathe MP3 from morning to night, are these things really going to sate? No. And all the "fantastic new features" they laud over are - in reality - just bimboed-up versions of the winamp bread & butter we've been chowing down on for years.
(check http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...layer/fast.asp and tell me that ONE of these 'First All-In-One Jukebox' functions is innovative).

Sure, it's easy to shoot holes in WA3. A blind chimp could tell you that WA3 is very much a work in progress: have a quick swagger into one of the WA3 wishlist forums and check how many additional features are being written right now, while you're dreaming of Bill, as well the changes to current features, and liposuction of puppy-fat code. The platform of WA2 would have had Nullsoft standing in increasingly bad stead for the future, so an upgrade was vital, but a glance at the dissent and ambivalence to WA3 over the later verions of 2 attest to the infancy of WA3 as a fully-fledged program. Give it time: the people in the forums are the tip of a huge iceberg of winamp users, and the ammount of people eager to bring WA3 above and beyond the level of WA2final pretty much ensure it's future success. (roughly 26 million people downloaded WA2 or 3 from download.com. Bear in mind how simple it is go just go to winamp.com and get it there. AND more people downloaded WA2.81 than WMP9 last week. That's the OLD winamp, mind).s

[sanosuke]

Originally posted by NameGoesHere
If winamp3 could just play .rm & .ram files off file or CD I could trash my RealONE crap collector.

real media does not like people to steal their formats but there is one player out there that does play such formats, forgot what it was .

[SNYder]

It is called Media Player Classic. A decent rip of of Windows Media Player 6.4.

But it doen't play real movies or audio all too good. I ran into many problems when movies or audio would not play.

I always end up comming back to RealONE

[Windrush]

I still use Winamp2 w/ plugin for the real audio files...
they still require the installation of RA player, but at least you do not have to run it.

[fwgx]

Why are you stuck with windows Windrush?

[Windrush]

for a simple reason: I do a lot of things using windows applications,
music and games and others..

In the near future, I don't think its possible for me to switch to another OS (Linux etc.) AND continue doing the same computer activities I'm doing now, since most of them are based on Dos/Windows applications in the first place, like PC games etc. (at least most of them anyway)

[fwgx]

You'll probably find is pretty easy to switch to Linux and dual boot for Windows games. For most things though, *nix OS's are 'better'.

[mc^^^^]

i love how ms not only lie about wa3 features, but also try base the so called 'comparasin' around the minor good things about wimp9 and avoiding the common things that all players have...

any player can make a 'comparasin' like that and base it so it looks like their player is way better than any other...

[sanosuke]

Originally posted by mc^^^^
any player can make a 'comparasin' like that and base it so it looks like their player is way better than any other...

agreed...like this example
<lame example>
wa3 - whips llama's ass
wmp9 - llama unhurt
</lame example>

[dopey]

i read this thread and read streetwalkers comments yeah you really have nothing to do with microsoft if you say so.

All i can say is microsoft is master of rip off technology.

They couldnt innovate there way out of a paper bag.

as for wmp. dont use it ill stick to linux thankyou very much ms products generally look glossy but are shit.

" Microsoft is a major player in the standards organizations and one of the largest research companies in many areas of research. Microsoft is a winner by anyones definition and you young people would be fortunate to be accepted as one of there developers. "

if they asked me to develope for them i would laugh. no shit. Its research involves thiefing good ideas from a good product and developing sub standard shit.
Microsoft is a loser by my definition.

From their advertising to everything else. They claim to be the first to provide shit that has been around for long before they thief it.

and who was that ms monkey who came on stage in one of the ms conferences and was jumping around like a fool.

as for a major player in standards organisation dont make me laugh. you really are chatting shit man. They do the most to hinder the standards organisations. Everything that is attempted to be standardised they try and fuck up to make it only work with ms operating systems.

[StreetWalker]

Originally posted by vslick22
All i can say is microsoft is master of rip off technology.

99.9% of so called artists and engineers do this, so what's new?

if they asked me to develope for them i would laugh. no shit. Its research involves thiefing good ideas from a good product and developing sub standard shit.

Microsoft has made thousands of employees millionairs over the years! Unfortunately, your self-proclaimed high standards would exclude you from accepting this opportunity, and of course it's highly unlikely you would ever receive an invitation anyway!

[supernovus]

Microsoft does not offer much for my purposes. Then again I'm a hardcore geek, and the H2O gnuLinux operating system from www.triluminary.net is my idea of a nice operating system. Of course I don't expect the average PC user to use something like that. Even so, my windows box (it's sitting over here) has Winamp3, WMP9, Real Player, Quicktime Player and DivX Player. Between the lot of them, I hope I have enough media players. As for which ones I like better, I don't really give a crap. Winamp for music, WMP for videoes. The others? Just there for file format support. Well, back to Linux, later!

[yellowdog]

WiMP9 is a 10mb download compared to Wa's 3.something. Plus, microsoft adds a load of junk and crap you don't want. Plus, when palladium comes around all the 3rd party will be blown to SH*T. By then, we're all running Linux/Unix/Mac on x87 chip architechture all on a non-palladium network. Microsoft will be "giving" it's products to no-one (including all their nag screens to upgrade to "premium" services, not to mention spyware) because we'll all be out of microsoft's monopolizing ways and they will go bankrupt, leaving his billion$ of dollar$ house to rot and anarchists to take over and probably burn. I can't beleive Bill Gates is sitting at home laughing while he's using the multi-million dollar version of windows with no bugs that runs smoothly while we're all here struggling with windows version: bug. Moving on: disk space. how much disk space does WiMP9 take up?? What's that, do I hear a mouse squeaking? And also, at least Wa3 crashes a helluva lot less than I had WiMP crash on my comp, scaring me away from WiMP and all of its crapped-up, I mean "upgraded" versions. Oh well, rant over.

-Ross

I forgot my signature

[yellowdog]

Sorry, when I logged in, I think I must have clicked post new topic instead of post a reply. If an admin could move this as a reply to the WiMP vs. Wa discussion that would be great. While you're at it please change my member status from junior member to stupid member. bye

[dopey]

99.9% of so called artists and engineers do this, so what's new?

so that gives blatent ripping off of work and giving no acknowledgement justification. Not in my books that dont. Sorry mate. Winamp coming out with innovation with wasabi, microsoft coming out with bloat. The winner is Nullsoft Thank you very much.

when you throw millions of dollars at belittling your competitor with nonsense, says something about the company.

As for working for microsoft, no thanks.
They can keep their trash and their stinking money

[dlinkwit27]

IMHO...I don't think it really matters whether or not WMP or WA3 is better. The people who really care about how much bloatware ect is in each media player are most likly smart enough to have a big enough HD and RAM to carry it with no problem. MS does have the advantage that it will be able to include WMP with their OS's and therefore making it easily accesable to the avearge jow who wants to listen to his CD whilt lookin at pr0n cause that is all they use the internet for. In that respect WMP will of course have more "users." The important question is not which is better, but will emergence of a "superior" media player result in the death of winamp either by lack of user base or some sort of AOLTW/MS merger/deal. Most of us here are die-hard WA users, and that is shown by the noted sudden upbrinings of newb's. Now I jsut DL'ed WMP9 and am gonna go test this this out.

[edit]
Already I am dissappointed by WMP9's skin selection.
[/edit]

[more edit]
tried the blu crush skin, I must say, teh oen buton color change is nifty
[/edit]

[endless17]

it's bigger than Winamp3, but on my computer WMP9 loads just as fast and sounds just as good. it's mp3-decoder isn't as forgiving as nullsoft's, as it's throwing away 40 songs as unplayable, while Winamp and QCD can both play them just fine.

however, WMP9 kills Winamp3 in the usability (and thus far) stability department. the media library is much more efficent and usable than Winamp3, the song-ranking system combined with auto-playlists allow easy mixed cds on the go, and the taskbar mode is a godsend. WMP9 has taken a feature that i've always loved in QCD (the organized menu with hierarchy of the artists/albums) and expanded on it nicely.

winamp3 has definite sex appeal, but WMP9 just works better IMO, and unlike winamp3, seems to have a very cohesive UI-design which is very user-friendly.

[dlinkwit27]

I find WMP's playlist rather confusing and awkward.

[StreetWalker]

Originally posted by dlinkwit27
I find WMP's playlist rather confusing and awkward.

I find WMP9 Media Library to be awesome and easy to use. WinAmp3's Media Library is confusing, awkward and barely functional.

[dlinkwit27]

just diff tastes i guess. I find WA3's PL extreamly user friendly and the Media Libray a godsend! lol

[rpxmaster]

I find StreetWalker to be rather confusing and awkward, as well as biased. The last thing the world needs right now is a Microshaft enthusiast.

I was just having a conversation with some ordinary 50-year old guy whom I've never met who was in the process of putting the SuSe distribution of GnuLinux on his machine. Of course he wisely chose to ditch Microsoft's proprietary crap because the unreliability of Windoze was annoying the piss out of him. You have to realize that more people are seeking out free software alternatives, and they should be, though I guess Winamp3 itself is proprietary, after all...

[sanosuke]

i can't find the playlist in WMP. Maybe coz i don't use it...

[binary hero]

Originally posted by sanosuke
i can't find the playlist in WMP. Maybe coz i don't use it...

i had that problem too! i could not find a playlist editor for ages, i could load playlists, and create new ones, i just couldn't add files to them.

[xzxzzx]

Originally posted by vslick22
and who was that ms monkey who came on stage in one of the ms conferences and was jumping around like a fool.

You are probably referring to Steve Ballmer - currently, the CEO of Microsoft. "ms monkey who (was) ... jumping around like a fool"? You know, I think that's great that he was jumping around like a fool, because at least it showed he had enthusiasum. Would the Linux community put down Linus if he did the same thing at a large Linux conferance? No, of course not.

As for the whole issue of Winamp vs WMP... Winamp is clearly better for playing Mp3s - it loads faster, it takes less memory, it's more stable, it has a real EQ, etc. Though I do like WMP for playing video, which it is actually good at.

[Huijun]

I prefer Winamp... XD

When I played my audio cds in WMP and also WinAmp, the music didn't sound just as good on WMP 9. It just sounded kinda dull. :/ And there wasn't enough bass... I'm using a ATP4 and SB Live! Value.

And in some songs, they sounded horribly flat in WMP9. T___T It sounded more like someone had ripped out the vocal chords of my favourite singers and replaced their chords with something monstrous.

Now, about the problems about WMP 9, it takes quite some time to load up sometimes. T___T

Also, several times it tried to access the net and guess what... I disabled net access for WMP 9 in Tiny Firewall... lol. I hate it when a software tries to access the net especially when it's produced by a company well-known for spying on its' users.

Besides, I don't need to see the faces of Hollywood stars... I choose whose face I wanna look at and what news I wanna hear about. Reading political news is a lot better than reading about Hollywood gossip, although I admit that sometimes I read the latter just for comic relief, to just see how idiotic some pple can be, and to laugh at the amt. of time pple can waste writing such stuff.

However, I kinda liked the default skin of WMP 9. But, I usually don't use skins 'cos I'm kinda busy doing my stuff most of the times and so I don't bother with how good or bad Winamp looks!

[TheShit]

Originally posted by xzxzzx
You are probably referring to Steve Ballmer - currently, the CEO of Microsoft. "ms monkey who (was) ... jumping around like a fool"? You know, I think that's great that he was jumping around like a fool, because at least it showed he had enthusiasum. Would the Linux community put down Linus if he did the same thing at a large Linux conferance? No, of course not.

As for the whole issue of Winamp vs WMP... Winamp is clearly better for playing Mp3s - it loads faster, it takes less memory, it's more stable, it has a real EQ, etc. Though I do like WMP for playing video, which it is actually good at.

I don't think Linus would ever be thinking of doing that. And if he did that why wouldn't we laugh at it? If your best friend does something stupid you laugh, right? It's just the same.
Also I bet that steve received a nice check for doing that. It's all part of the act, the image.

As for windows media player. I've been using winamp ever since I found out about it (thank god zdnet actually ). WA3 might be bloat but it runs smooth enough for me and the media library is awesome and actually extremely easy to use (I've been wanking on the search feature for ages). WMP9 I've not tested although previous versions I have. I only noticed how to do playlists and shit after a while. And it is bloat as hell... But sure its descent for the not-knowing users.

And about the Linux/windows thing.
I don't know which idiot said that Linux could never be as user-friendly and that one day some guy might invent a linux-distro that the average user can use.
I suggest you take a look at mandrake. Its might easy and has it flaws but in the end it has come a far way and will go a far way. I myself don't use it but i'm in no need of what mandrake has to offer (*hugs slackware*).
And you may claim it is still difficult to get a hang of, but just remember how many peeps find it difficult to use windows.
I mean it is easy as hell, but then how come they use it? EVERYONE DOES.
See the picture here. More go to Linux, Linux gets big, a lot of people use linux, companies provide linux, they try and "work" with linux which they eventually can. They won't find it easy (but that was the same thing with windows).

Um well I can talk ages about this matter...
As long as you read what I said I'm happy

[xzxzzx]

Originally posted by TheShit
I don't think Linus would ever be thinking of doing that. And if he did that why wouldn't we laugh at it? If your best friend does something stupid you laugh, right? It's just the same.
Also I bet that steve received a nice check for doing that. It's all part of the act, the image.

As for windows media player. I've been using winamp ever since I found out about it (thank god zdnet actually ). WA3 might be bloat but it runs smooth enough for me and the media library is awesome and actually extremely easy to use (I've been wanking on the search feature for ages). WMP9 I've not tested although previous versions I have. I only noticed how to do playlists and shit after a while. And it is bloat as hell... But sure its descent for the not-knowing users.

And about the Linux/windows thing.
I don't know which idiot said that Linux could never be as user-friendly and that one day some guy might invent a linux-distro that the average user can use.
I suggest you take a look at mandrake. Its might easy and has it flaws but in the end it has come a far way and will go a far way. I myself don't use it but i'm in no need of what mandrake has to offer (*hugs slackware*).
And you may claim it is still difficult to get a hang of, but just remember how many peeps find it difficult to use windows.
I mean it is easy as hell, but then how come they use it? EVERYONE DOES.
See the picture here. More go to Linux, Linux gets big, a lot of people use linux, companies provide linux, they try and "work" with linux which they eventually can. They won't find it easy (but that was the same thing with windows).

Um well I can talk ages about this matter...
As long as you read what I said I'm happy

First of all, why does everyone seem to assume that I don't use Linux when I defend Microsoft? And why does everyone seem to assume that I use Linux when I am defending Linux? Both of these have been incorrect (though not at the same time, obviously) - first of all, I do use Linux. Suse 8.0 - I have two servers running, with no GUI.

Yes, you might laugh at Linux jumping around (which is NOT what I said) - but would you start calling Linus "that Linux monkey who was jumping around like a fool"? And yes, he might have been getting paid to be at that conferance. But why wouldn't he be happy/exited?!? He's the CEO of a company with (as of a couple months ago) about 60,000,000,000 (that's sixty billion) dollars in - well, basically cash. That would make me pretty happy. I would imagine that he loves his job - even without considering the pay.