DRM (WMA) and AAC

JHawkZZ · 30th October 2003, 02:37

Without a hack, is it legally possible to support DRM or AAC playback in Winamp? Or are these exclusive to their respective companies?

I am under the impression Microsoft does not allow programs outside of WMP 9 to play DRM encoded WMAs, and Apple does not allow programs outside of iTunes to play AAC?

Again, is it legally possible? Not is it POSSIBLE. Anything *can* be done, but I want to know if Microsoft or Apple allow it via SDKs?

Sorry if this has been asked before, I did search the forums but didn't find anything. Thanks!

SarCaSM · 30th October 2003, 04:25

was also wondering this, I thought I read one thread though where someone stated that it wouldn't be incorporated, but have been wondering if this may change in the near future especially with the release of all these pay for music services coming out using WMA with DRM. Is it just that the WMA input plugin is not as up to date as the current WMA codec? BTW, I know WMA sucks, took all my cds and ripped them as OGGs very happy I have been since.

30th October 2003, 05:34

It's because Microsoft restricts users to use WMP.

Winamp 2.X Forums Search: iTunes

Though it is just better to avoid crippled formats.

JHawkZZ · 30th October 2003, 06:03

I'm not trying to argue, I just wanted to know because these stupid restricted files seem to be growing ala buymusic and napster and all that crap.

Anyway my point, doesn't Microsoft offer a WMA SDK? I know in that it has the ability to play DRM files, but maybe that's not available to use in other audio players. Is that how they have it set up?

StAnGeR04 · 30th October 2003, 23:01

Quote:

Originally posted by JHawkZZ
Without a hack, is it legally possible to support DRM or AAC playback in Winamp? Or are these exclusive to their respective companies?

I am under the impression Microsoft does not allow programs outside of WMP 9 to play DRM encoded WMAs, and Apple does not allow programs outside of iTunes to play AAC?

Again, is it legally possible? Not is it POSSIBLE. Anything *can* be done, but I want to know if Microsoft or Apple allow it via SDKs?

Sorry if this has been asked before, I did search the forums but didn't find anything. Thanks!

actually there is a AAC plugin available at hydrogenaudio.org..I'm using it at this moment ...but the last time I checked it was unavailable at that site ... possible deskmod situation going on there...but as far as DRM is concerned I have no clue .. sorry

Hallje · 31st October 2003, 02:14

It's funny though... when you try to play a protected WMA file in Winamp, a browser window is spawned to a MS page that says "View compatable players..." and sure enough, Nullsoft Winamp is #2 under the heading of Player/CD-Copying. Any ideas on this one?

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...lt.aspx#player

Jumper001 · 31st October 2003, 03:58

I had a protected WMA file on my PC for a long time that played on Winamp. Every time it got to the song in the playlist it would spawn a browser which would get me a new license. As far as WMAs ripped on that PC, I have no idea, now would I expect WMAs ripped with DRM on another PC to work (duh).

khandha · 31st October 2003, 13:00

This is from http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...eries/sdk.aspx

Quote:

Integrating Windows Media 9 Series into Software Playback Applications
As they can with creation tools, developers can add Windows Media Audio and Video 9 Series playback to their programs in a number of ways. A media player application can be built using the Windows Media 9 Series Format SDK and the Windows Media Device Manager 9 Series SDK to deeply integrate playback of Windows Media Audio and Video 9 Series into an application. This would allow a developer to integrate playback functionality of this unmatched audio and video technology into its applications, as well as allow the applications to provide additional benefits such as instant-on/always-on streaming support, Windows Media DRM, and metadata.

So it seems that integrating DRM should be possible. Maybe the current WMA plugin just doesn't support it.

---

O.K. I just tried downloading the SDK but you have to register...
However in the documentation to the SDK there is listed a sample program that "Plays Windows Media files including DRM-protected files." So it should really be possible to write a plugin supporting DRM.

DJ Egg · 31st October 2003, 13:31

I haven't got any of these WMA files, and never will . . .
but have any of you tried removing in_wm.dll and adding ;WMA to the extension list in the DirectShow decoder plugin config and letting in_dshow.dll deal with WMA instead?

(apparently I'm invisible)

Linkooseven · 31st October 2003, 19:46

I use Napster as well...and I really wish I could play the music in Winamp. I don't care much for Napster's Built in player and I also don't like Windows Media Player.

Any idea on HOW to play it in Winamp 2? Any kind of plugin for it?

Hallje · 31st October 2003, 21:20

Yeah.. I tried the technique mentioned above. It doesn't spawn the "You need an functional player" spam anymore.. but, it still doesn't play.

DJ Egg · 31st October 2003, 23:01

You'll need something like Unfuck then (don't think this works with newer wma).
My advice . . . avoid wma like the plague.

khandha · 2nd November 2003, 18:54

Well, if you want to legally download music, it is very hard to get around wma...

Maybe I'll download the SDK and fiddle arround with it a bit. The problem is I have never programmed a plugin for winamp before.

DJ Egg · 2nd November 2003, 19:30

There's plenty of sites on the net that let you legally download mp3's and ogg's by means of pre-paid subscriptions, eg. allofmp3.com and emusic.com

If you pay for & download DRM-protected WMA/M4P crap, then that's your problem

@khandha
yeah, go for it . . . why the hell not ?!

digh · 3rd November 2003, 02:40

DJ Egg

Have you tried allofmp3? This DRM, WMA & ACC sucks. I'm willing to pay, but I want mp3 & winamp damn it! These guys still don't get it! Any way to convert protected files to mp3 other than buy it, burn it to cd, and then convert that to mp3? Of course it will sound like crap probably.

digh (as in digital dj)

DJ Egg · 3rd November 2003, 04:02

Yes, I've used allofmp3.com and emusic.com before.
Both are excellent services, and worth every penny/cent.
emusic.com recently switched from using FhG 128kbps to LameEnc vbr mp3.
allofmp3 lets you choose the format/quality for vip selections @ $0.01/mb.
Saves having to search and wait in a queue with p2p apps, you get full speed downloads, full albums all properly tagged, top quality, and most importantly, the artists get their royalties (well, so they say, lol).

btw, I guess your method should work (buy, burn, rip)
but I suppose you'd have to try it out for yourself
(like I said, I'll never buy WMA or M4P or any other DRM-protected format).

khandha · 12th November 2003, 20:43

O.K. I finally donwloaded the SDK today. But while reading the Documentation I came accross this:

Quote:

To perform DRM file creation or playback, you must link to a static library that is provided in binary form by Microsoft. This library is sometimes called a stub library or "stublib" and it uniquely identifies your application. In this documentation, the DRM library is referred to as "WMStubDRM.lib" although the name of the library you receive may be different. To obtain this library, you must sign a license agreement with Microsoft. The terms of the agreement may differ depending on whether you request an evaluation license or a production license. For more information on the DRM licensing process, see the Windows Media Licensing Form at the Microsoft Web site.

So basically this says something like "we don't really want anybody to play DRM protected content with anything other than WMP, but if it really has to be, let's make it as hard as possible."
I guess if Nullsoft doesn't do it on their own and applies for a license (and I think the chances for this aren't very high) we will never have playback of DRM protected content in Winamp.
However, I found that when you use the DirectShow plugin I can playback *some* of the DRM protected files, maybe they are protected with the old DRM, I don't know.

So I think in future I will also avoid wma.

re allofmp3.com: Do you know if this is also availiable if you live outside the US?

DJ Egg · 12th November 2003, 22:20

Quote:

Originally posted by khandha
re allofmp3.com: Do you know if this is also availiable if you live outside the US?

I live in the UK, so I guess the answer to that is "yes".
I think the site is actually Russian-based.

btw, yes, winamp supports older drm (wma v7 and earlier), not sure about v8, definitely not v9 drm. I guess (I've been doing a lot of this recently, lol) that Nullsoft would need to apply for a new licence from Microsoft, then Microsoft would decide whether or not to grant it, and then Microsoft would provide code for a new (but still probably crippled) in_wm plugin...

Either that, or someone somewhere will eventually come up with a hack to make in_dshow work.

digh · 13th November 2003, 03:14

Directshow plugin won't play any WMAs from the new napster (traitors). I tried Virtuosa, a program on the above mentioned MS site, and all the files play. It's ugly and cumbersome, tho. The files load quite slowly, and there are gaps between songs as with wmp9.

digh

khandha · 13th November 2003, 21:29

Quote:

I live in the UK, so I guess the answer to that is "yes".
I think the site is actually Russian-based.

As far as I figured out up to now, it seems that they are in some sort of legal twilight-zone: They have some sort of contract, but it is not sure if it is really legal (at least here in Germany).

Quote:

I guess (I've been doing a lot of this recently, lol) that Nullsoft would need to apply for a new licence from Microsoft, then Microsoft would decide whether or not to grant it, and then Microsoft would provide code for a new (but still probably crippled) in_wm plugin...

Actually I was already thinking about applying for a licence myself ;-)
As far as I could see it doesn't cost anything.

DJ Egg · 13th November 2003, 23:15

allofmp3.com -> legal info (top right of home page)

All the materials in the MediaServices projects are available for distribution through Internet according to license # LS-3Ì-02-36 of the Russian Multimedia and Internet Society. Under the license terms, MediaServices pays license fees for all the materials subject to the Law of the Russian Federation "On Copyright and Related Rights". All the materials are available solely for personal use and must not be used for further distribution, resale or broadcasting.

Users are held liable for the use and distribution of the MediaServices site information materials according to local legislation.

interpret as thou wilst

Re: wma v9 drm licence
Whether it's free or not, I doubt if money is ever going to be the issue here.
Like I've said so many times before, avoid drm like the plague, and everything will be ok. Unless you want to pay for a limited, crippled, proprietry format that can only be played on your own pc, with the player of their choice, not yours, as long as the licence is valid, and as long as you don't ever need to reformat or upgrade windows, etc.

Stage · 25th November 2003, 17:50

http://www.mediatwins.com/products/a...s-download.htm

Neither UnFuck nor FreeMe worked for me, but this one did. It's a encode/re-encode/whatever tool, so you can re-encode to Mp3. I don't actually know if it's any different from any other encode/re-encode tools, but at least it works.

swhite · 25th November 2003, 18:37

My advice is to boycott all these online music stores that use DRM. And don't buy any copy-protected CDs either. I refuse to use crippled anything -- I'm not a pirate, so why should my rights be restricted? I buy CDs and then rip them to Ogg, and I'm quite happy!

Shayne

ThomasW · 25th November 2003, 18:49

Quote:

Originally posted by JHawkZZ
Without a hack, is it legally possible to support DRM or AAC playback in Winamp? Or are these exclusive to their respective companies?

I am under the impression Microsoft does not allow programs outside of WMP 9 to play DRM encoded WMAs, and Apple does not allow programs outside of iTunes to play AAC?

Again, is it legally possible? Not is it POSSIBLE. Anything *can* be done, but I want to know if Microsoft or Apple allow it via SDKs?

Sorry if this has been asked before, I did search the forums but didn't find anything. Thanks!

Apple certainly allows programs outside of iTunes to PLAY protected AAC. On the Mac, it even allows programs to edit and convert protected AAC files. On Windows, you can only play them back. I have written a plugin that you can find here.

unfnknblvbl · 25th November 2003, 19:13

Just don't use DRM formats - if you do, it's your own silly fault.. you've made your bed, now lie in it.

I can't believe people actually share .WMA files over p2p programs too... ugh, you'd think people would have some common sense, wouldn't you?

30th October 2003, 02:37	#1
JHawkZZ Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 18	DRM (WMA) and AAC Without a hack, is it legally possible to support DRM or AAC playback in Winamp? Or are these exclusive to their respective companies? I am under the impression Microsoft does not allow programs outside of WMP 9 to play DRM encoded WMAs, and Apple does not allow programs outside of iTunes to play AAC? Again, is it legally possible? Not is it POSSIBLE. Anything can be done, but I want to know if Microsoft or Apple allow it via SDKs? Sorry if this has been asked before, I did search the forums but didn't find anything. Thanks!

31st October 2003, 13:31	#9
DJ Egg Techorator Winamp & Shoutcast Team Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 35,894	I haven't got any of these WMA files, and never will . . . but have any of you tried removing in_wm.dll and adding ;WMA to the extension list in the DirectShow decoder plugin config and letting in_dshow.dll deal with WMA instead? (apparently I'm invisible) Playlist -\|- Twitter

31st October 2003, 23:01	#12
DJ Egg Techorator Winamp & Shoutcast Team Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 35,894	You'll need something like Unfuck then (don't think this works with newer wma). My advice . . . avoid wma like the plague. Playlist -\|- Twitter

2nd November 2003, 19:30	#14
DJ Egg Techorator Winamp & Shoutcast Team Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 35,894	There's plenty of sites on the net that let you legally download mp3's and ogg's by means of pre-paid subscriptions, eg. allofmp3.com and emusic.com If you pay for & download DRM-protected WMA/M4P crap, then that's your problem @khandha yeah, go for it . . . why the hell not ?! Playlist -\|- Twitter

3rd November 2003, 04:02	#16
DJ Egg Techorator Winamp & Shoutcast Team Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 35,894	Yes, I've used allofmp3.com and emusic.com before. Both are excellent services, and worth every penny/cent. emusic.com recently switched from using FhG 128kbps to LameEnc vbr mp3. allofmp3 lets you choose the format/quality for vip selections @ $0.01/mb. Saves having to search and wait in a queue with p2p apps, you get full speed downloads, full albums all properly tagged, top quality, and most importantly, the artists get their royalties (well, so they say, lol). btw, I guess your method should work (buy, burn, rip) but I suppose you'd have to try it out for yourself (like I said, I'll never buy WMA or M4P or any other DRM-protected format). Playlist -\|- Twitter

30th October 2003, 04:25	#2
SarCaSM Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 289	was also wondering this, I thought I read one thread though where someone stated that it wouldn't be incorporated, but have been wondering if this may change in the near future especially with the release of all these pay for music services coming out using WMA with DRM. Is it just that the WMA input plugin is not as up to date as the current WMA codec? BTW, I know WMA sucks, took all my cds and ripped them as OGGs very happy I have been since.

30th October 2003, 05:34	#3
Sawg Guest Posts: n/a	It's because Microsoft restricts users to use WMP. Winamp 2.X Forums Search: iTunes Though it is just better to avoid crippled formats.

30th October 2003, 06:03	#4
JHawkZZ Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 18	I'm not trying to argue, I just wanted to know because these stupid restricted files seem to be growing ala buymusic and napster and all that crap. Anyway my point, doesn't Microsoft offer a WMA SDK? I know in that it has the ability to play DRM files, but maybe that's not available to use in other audio players. Is that how they have it set up?

31st October 2003, 02:14	#6
Hallje Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2	It's funny though... when you try to play a protected WMA file in Winamp, a browser window is spawned to a MS page that says "View compatable players..." and sure enough, Nullsoft Winamp is #2 under the heading of Player/CD-Copying. Any ideas on this one? http://www.microsoft.com/windows/win...lt.aspx#player

31st October 2003, 03:58	#7
Jumper001 Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Mars Posts: 125	I had a protected WMA file on my PC for a long time that played on Winamp. Every time it got to the song in the playlist it would spawn a browser which would get me a new license. As far as WMAs ripped on that PC, I have no idea, now would I expect WMAs ripped with DRM on another PC to work (duh).

31st October 2003, 19:46	#10
Linkooseven Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 5	I use Napster as well...and I really wish I could play the music in Winamp. I don't care much for Napster's Built in player and I also don't like Windows Media Player. Any idea on HOW to play it in Winamp 2? Any kind of plugin for it?

31st October 2003, 21:20	#11
Hallje Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Posts: 2	Yeah.. I tried the technique mentioned above. It doesn't spawn the "You need an functional player" spam anymore.. but, it still doesn't play.

2nd November 2003, 18:54	#13
khandha Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 6	Well, if you want to legally download music, it is very hard to get around wma... Maybe I'll download the SDK and fiddle arround with it a bit. The problem is I have never programmed a plugin for winamp before.

3rd November 2003, 02:40	#15
digh Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 7	DJ Egg Have you tried allofmp3? This DRM, WMA & ACC sucks. I'm willing to pay, but I want mp3 & winamp damn it! These guys still don't get it! Any way to convert protected files to mp3 other than buy it, burn it to cd, and then convert that to mp3? Of course it will sound like crap probably. digh (as in digital dj)

13th November 2003, 03:14	#19
digh Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2000 Posts: 7	Directshow plugin won't play any WMAs from the new napster (traitors). I tried Virtuosa, a program on the above mentioned MS site, and all the files play. It's ugly and cumbersome, tho. The files load quite slowly, and there are gaps between songs as with wmp9. digh

13th November 2003, 23:15	#21
DJ Egg Techorator Winamp & Shoutcast Team Join Date: Jun 2000 Posts: 35,894	allofmp3.com -> legal info (top right of home page) All the materials in the MediaServices projects are available for distribution through Internet according to license # LS-3Ì-02-36 of the Russian Multimedia and Internet Society. Under the license terms, MediaServices pays license fees for all the materials subject to the Law of the Russian Federation "On Copyright and Related Rights". All the materials are available solely for personal use and must not be used for further distribution, resale or broadcasting. Users are held liable for the use and distribution of the MediaServices site information materials according to local legislation. interpret as thou wilst Re: wma v9 drm licence Whether it's free or not, I doubt if money is ever going to be the issue here. Like I've said so many times before, avoid drm like the plague, and everything will be ok. Unless you want to pay for a limited, crippled, proprietry format that can only be played on your own pc, with the player of their choice, not yours, as long as the licence is valid, and as long as you don't ever need to reformat or upgrade windows, etc. Playlist -\|- Twitter

25th November 2003, 17:50	#22
Stage Junior Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Posts: 1	http://www.mediatwins.com/products/a...s-download.htm Neither UnFuck nor FreeMe worked for me, but this one did. It's a encode/re-encode/whatever tool, so you can re-encode to Mp3. I don't actually know if it's any different from any other encode/re-encode tools, but at least it works.

25th November 2003, 18:37	#23
swhite Member Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 84	My advice is to boycott all these online music stores that use DRM. And don't buy any copy-protected CDs either. I refuse to use crippled anything -- I'm not a pirate, so why should my rights be restricted? I buy CDs and then rip them to Ogg, and I'm quite happy! Shayne

25th November 2003, 19:13	#25
unfnknblvbl Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Adelaide, Australia Posts: 69	Just don't use DRM formats - if you do, it's your own silly fault.. you've made your bed, now lie in it. I can't believe people actually share .WMA files over p2p programs too... ugh, you'd think people would have some common sense, wouldn't you?

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