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View Poll Results: what do you think of the new shoutcast browser
Love it 57 20.58%
Hate it 178 64.26%
Its about the same to me 42 15.16%
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Old 22nd February 2006, 02:53   #1
IllBugYou
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5.2 shoutcast browser poll

so what does everyone think of the new shoutcast browser
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Old 22nd February 2006, 03:15   #2
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My primary reason for using winamp is its media library and shoutcast support. what a disappointment the new shoutcast browser is. It's slow, unresponsive, requires more steps to find what you want. This format is ok for other stuff like XM radio or AOL video, but not for shoutcast. There's a lot available genres and it would work much better as old drop down list, plus no more convenient sorting capabilites.

very dissapointed

How about providing an option for users to choose old or new style browser?
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Old 22nd February 2006, 03:33   #3
DJ Egg
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[Edit]

Please read this first before posting

...and this post too

[/Edit]



So you want to go back to being limited to a list of the top 1000 streams only?
I know for sure that I don't :/

There's over 13,000 sc radio streams available to you in the new browser.

And it's not slow or unresponsive for me, so maybe there's a problem with your Internet Explorer or something? All results appear almost instantly for me, even the larger Quick Genres.

However, I do kinda agree about the sc-tv listing. Seeing as there's only 300 or so tv streams, I guess it would be nice to be able to see a full list, or at least maybe the full list split over eg. 3 pages (<< 1 | 2 | 3 >>), heh.

But hey, as it's all controlled serverside, and is still a work in progress, subject to change at any time, then who knows what is possible or what will happen...

For example, Listener Count was actually still in/displayed in the earlier betas, but was removed. I guess it would be quite easy to add it back in (though we're not gonna make it so it sorts by 'popularity' by default), and I guess it would be quite easy to add "Bookmark" to the rt-click context menu for Shoutcast Radio & TV, etc etc.
And all this can be done serverside, with no client updates required.

[edit] re: posts below: how many of you are actually trying to broadcast a shoutcast station and get some listeners? My guess is none of you ;-) [/edit]


Or you could just edit ml_online.ini and add a link to shoutcast.com (see attachment)


[Edit]

Please read this first before posting

...and this post too


.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 03:56   #4
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I hate it
I can't find the stations that i used too listen too.

Is there someway that i'm missing how to get the most popular streams at the moment?

Same with the tv, theres no programs there. I dont like
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Old 22nd February 2006, 04:26   #5
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i had my stream settings limited to 1500 and it pulled them all in until it was changed recently serverside. but what i am most dissapointed in is that these streams are listed by genre only and it effectively kills how i search for songs or any content using the quick search. i would rather see everything and trim out the fat with the quick search than weed through genres. there are some streams that list one genre and play something not even that genre. the previous setup was a much faster way of finding things for me than what's available now.

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Old 22nd February 2006, 05:02   #6
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i like it, but i think there should be a sort by "popularity" next to the name, type and bitrate.

i'm sure you already know this but sometimes the frame that displays the above info goes missing.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 05:29   #7
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If you're interested in the sort of thing DJEgg showed in his screenshot, here's one I prepared earlier

You can set it up to do pretty much any search you want on the main Shoutcast page. It still won't be the same as the old browser, but it may suit some of you better.

Download and unzip somewhere on your hard drive.

UJ
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Old 22nd February 2006, 05:29   #8
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Hate it, and not just because it's new. The media library handles tens of thousands of entries just fine and is easier to read because all the data is in one row, at the least please switch back to that. I'm not really interested in looking at different interfaces for essentially doing the same thing, I'll use WMP for that.

It would be really cool if you guys could reprogram the entire media library to load data from multiple data sources. The ml_pmp plugin would be a data source, a directory tree plugin would be a data source, and each online media (shoutcast, aol radio, etc) would be a data source. Each data source would be an xml or similar file containing the various fields and that's it. Absolutely no information on how to present these fields would be contained in the data sources. To handle that, there would be seperate, locally stored files preloaded with defaults that would instruct the media library how to sort the various data sources. They would specify which colums to display, which ones to sort on, how often to querry for new info (online info every 10 minutes, local every second), and so on. You could still use html to present the data, just make that a new type of view and provide the approproate templates to handle the source(s) you plan on presenting.

The advantages of this are
-interface consistancy
-can search ALL sources at once if they're all combined into one smart view
-adcanced users can mix and match sources with querries, this is an easy way to discover new music
-easy for plugin developers to feed info to the library. Just write a file containing the info and tell the ml to read the file (or talk directly, whichever is best). Much more elegant than making each plugin draw it's own inteface. I wonder how much time Will is going to spend adding column sorting, playlist viewing, and artist/album browsing to the pmp plugin?

But yeah, I'm really annoyed by this interface change. I understand that it was important from a performance standpoint, but the interface didn't really need fixing. If the new interface is such a good way of browsing music (which is what you're really doing when you look for radio stations), why didn't you repace the library's interface too?

Sorry to complain so much, but I don't like where this part of Winamp is going. The rest is pretty nice though.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 05:35   #9
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Oh, I just wanted to say that I do appreciate the work that went into this, but I just wish I could access this data through standard media library methods as well.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 05:37   #10
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I totally agree with l_j_a_y_l

What was wrong with the old browser?
There may be more stations, but where is the "popularity/listeners" view?

And the second thing, i can't find my favorite radio-stations.

I hope they gonna change it, untill then...
i'm gonna use "winamp 5.13".


I hate it
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Old 22nd February 2006, 05:40   #11
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What's wrong with a stream with only 10 listeners? Just because something is popular, doesn't mean it is better. Be daring, try something new instead of following the heard of cattle to the most popular stream.

Count with us!
Jan 1st, 12AM (PST, GMT -8) 2010 - 282,246
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Old 22nd February 2006, 08:49   #12
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hey egg, how did you get forums.winamp.com in online services?

WebSite: www.skinconsortium.com - Community for Userinterface Design & Coding
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Old 22nd February 2006, 09:16   #13
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the only thing i personally like about it all now is that i can remove the thing since i generally don't see the point in online media, seems a waste of bandwidth to me if i can't keep it locally. and not having to remember to uncheck the check for online media on exit (which is a pain when having to debug winamp if it's on) is a saving grace. so in the vein of the thread, i'm happy with it

-daz
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Old 22nd February 2006, 11:01   #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by martin.deimos
hey egg, how did you get forums.winamp.com in online services?
http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....49#post1871349

UJ
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Old 22nd February 2006, 15:09   #15
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Didn´t find Shoutcast anywhere, because I have no internet explorer (respectivly only the core engine). I use Opera and the core IE is set to the savest setting. No ActiveX Active Scripting, etc.

Means I get a hundreds of errors when clicking through media library. And I can´t simply drag&drop the items in my playlist anymore.

Crap

Never did that, but no I´m downgrading to v5.13.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 15:12   #16
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I don't like it; makes me glad I was able save a separate playlist of radio stations with tagged url's. It's not that I think it goes slow, I'd just like it to go along with my color theme you know.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 15:37   #17
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What Shoutcast browser? All I see is SHOUTcastWire.
Where is it?
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Old 22nd February 2006, 18:30   #18
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What Shoutcast browser? All I see is SHOUTcastWire.
Have you checked "Online Services" in the Winamp installer?
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Old 22nd February 2006, 18:46   #19
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No I didn't.
Blah!
Well, I'll check that when I get home.

Last edited by papadoc; 22nd February 2006 at 20:23.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 20:33   #20
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For everyone complaining about the new Shoutcast browser: It's not that difficult to get the old Media Library back. Just go into Winamp's plugins folder, and replace "gen_ml.dll" with an older "gen_ml.dll," like the one from Winamp 5.13. Then be sure to make a backup of Winamp 5.2's "gen_ml.dll" so if you want to go back the the new Media Library you can.



BTW, I hope I'm allowed to post this. :P
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Old 22nd February 2006, 20:45   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by beanboy89
For everyone complaining about the new Shoutcast browser: It's not that difficult to get the old Media Library back. Just go into Winamp's plugins folder, and replace "gen_ml.dll" with an older "gen_ml.dll," like the one from Winamp 5.13.
Thanks, couldn´t use the new browser. Terrible with my modem and Firefox.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 20:45   #22
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what makes you think someone wont just fix the scripts feeding those listings to return no data?

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Old 22nd February 2006, 22:59   #23
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Quote:
Originally posted by Koopatrooper
Have you checked "Online Services" in the Winamp installer?
Ok, I'm at home and I see no option to select "Online Services" in the installer.
Where is this supposed to be?
I'm installing the Full version.
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Old 22nd February 2006, 23:23   #24
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http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....id=199851#list

Under "Winamp Library"
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Old 22nd February 2006, 23:43   #25
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Thanks DJ Egg, got it that time.
The installer is playing tricks with me.
I downloaded it twice and it was not there.
This time it was.
Go figure...
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Old 23rd February 2006, 03:42   #26
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Down grading isn't the solution, what if they impliment other improvement in the gen_ml.dll file? I would REALLY REALLY like to be able to use EXACTLY the same interface to view lists of music from various sources.

Oh, and I'm just curious. Would it be possible for Nullsoft to collect statistics on how long users spend navigating the jnew interface vs. the old one to select a station. I have a feeling it's longer and will not decrease, but a study would be the only way to prove that hypothesis. Does Nullsoft even do controlled usability studies?
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Old 23rd February 2006, 06:23   #27
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As I posted in another thread here, this new browser does not work well at all with screenreaders and other access technology used by the blind and visually impaired. I use JAWS For Windows version 7.0, probably the most popular screenreading software on the market, and the new shoutcast listings won't even work with it, all the options are graphical rather than being text based, at least that's how it looks anyways, perhaps I'm using the wrong type of terms (remember folks I don't have a pare of working eyes here), and as you can tell, I'm able to successfully not only post to this forum, but I could very easily browse all the most popular listings in earlier versions, but not in version 5.2. So for me this has nothing to do with wanting to go back to an old system of only wanting to be able to listen to a thousand stations, it's about actually being able to use this new browser.
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Old 23rd February 2006, 14:29   #28
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@toonhead-w4tb:
We do not want to leave you out in the cold here. We will try to make sure every field has a text element that can be read by rftb readers. The title= (title equals) fields arent currently being used, but we do plan on setting them for just this reason.

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Old 23rd February 2006, 16:02   #29
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Like I said in the 5.2 sticky thread, I think the new browser is fine.
However I would prefer a spreadsheet like view (like the old browser). That'd be better suited to sorting by different fields (both in your head and the application). And the title's would "pop" more. It's just hard to see/read right now. I get all cross-eyed.
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Old 23rd February 2006, 16:17   #30
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We will be exploring new views and sorting methods in the coming days and weeks. We wanted to get the basic ajax framework in place, and take a stab at the layout design. Based on everyones feedback we now have a better picture of what you want. However, given the new system, and the fact that we have exposed 1200% more content to the system, it would be unmanagable for someone on a modem or isdn to set back and wait the 20 minutes as the 40mb xml feed is dumped to Winamp. I'm sure we can come to a compromise on layout vs the amount of data we have to send in one view.

Please dont hate us for getting rid of the old view it had a 2mb max buffer, no way to provide sub-genres, or for that matter, no one liked the long delay on exit while winamp checked for updates to online media section.

We're breaking new ground here, and we are taking your opinions and suggestions to heart. Give us a little bit of time to round the edges and I'm sure we'll win you over.

As always Winamp is an evolving product, and you, our customer, drives that development. The more feedback we get (postive and negative) helps us give you what you want. We aren't trying to take over the world, just your heart.

Peace

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Old 23rd February 2006, 17:43   #31
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Quote:
or for that matter, no one liked the long delay on exit while winamp checked for updates to online media section.
I´m not sure if I got what you mean. ATM I think it takes much longer with the new browser. On almost every page I get the error from IE, that the script encountered errors and if I still want to run it. I get this by clicking on an entry, no problem, because I always turn off the option to show further infos for the actual item.
Annoying is the new browser, only the error appears and the online media section remains empty. I think it would work if I set IE to enable active scripting and ActiveX, but I surly won´t, because it´s so insecure. I convict all applications that use the core IE engine (without reason), it´s erroneous, insecure and SLOW. With the old media library the list appears within seconds and I type in the name of my favorite station and can drop it in my playlist. All within seconds. The new "feature" is no option for me.
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Old 23rd February 2006, 17:54   #32
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IE is insecure, but this is specifically using content which has no user injection possibility. So the insecurity is a bit misguided. Is IE insecure when browsing your own homepage? Do you not trust in Nullsoft/Winamp/AOL to not to drive by installs of spyware and virii off their web properties on you?

I realise that there is a common view now that IE is insecure. I'm actually glad that is the case since it moves more people to making better software decisions. But please, dont make these statements if you dont realise why these principals exist.

IE is insecure because when you go to malicious sites, it can allow remote software installation. The argument here is that Winamp isnt sending you to malicious sites. It's just creating listings off shoutcast.com/winamp.com data.

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Old 23rd February 2006, 18:31   #33
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Quote:
The argument here is that Winamp isnt sending you to malicious sites.
Of course I trust Winamp/Nullsoft. But the point is due to the fact that I´m not using IE I set it to securer settings, if a third-party program is using it (for displaying bannerns, spyware...) it can nothing do on my PC, but will still work. But with that settings Winamp is not working. And I won´t turn off the settings everytime I use winamp (and reenable it after that). I think if I want the sorting of groups and browse it on the WWW I´d use my internet browser (a link to shoutcast.com in winamp would be responsible enough then). If I just want a quick list of all...

PS: I think the best would be a setting, a quick list or Winamp as internet browser.
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Old 23rd February 2006, 19:42   #34
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@ Tag - Any chance of adding Bookmark to the right click menu, it's the thing I miss most. Thanks.

UJ
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Old 23rd February 2006, 20:14   #35
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I like the new look and feel to the new media library, but I' not to thrilled about the new embedded web sites for shoutcast.

What I really liked about the previous versions was it was quick to list large amounts of radio stations on first load. I could easily filter out ones that I don't want, and search by all the genres. It didn't send a request each time the filter changed, just on refresh.

I really hope that there is an option soon to enable the old style listings but still keep everything else from the update.
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Old 23rd February 2006, 20:36   #36
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As already stated, the old listing was limited to 1000 stations maximum, whereas the new one lists ALL streams (currently around 13,000). It simply would not be possible for the server to handle a few million users all trying to retrieve a list of 13,000 streams in one go.

A fair few months back, when people realized they could change the number of streams to fetch from the default 500 to 10,000 or more, this is when all the problems started occuring (server lockups, error messages, eg. showing old content, etc), so it was decided to limit the list to 1000 max, which solved the serverside problems. When this happened, there was a public outcry (main thread, though there were many others). And this was one of the reasons why work on ml_online began. Another reason was all the complaints about Winamp accessing the internet on close as it looked for new online content (due to the setting in prefs > media library > online media > etc).

And as already previously stated, the new service is still in its development stages. The serverside content can (and probably will) be modified at any time. Sort by listener count should hopefully be back in soon, and also the SC-TV listing will hopefully be changed to just provide one big list of available streams again (seeing as there's only between 300 and 400 tv streams in total at the moment).

So please bear with us.
Quote:
Originally posted by sacharja
Of course I trust Winamp/Nullsoft.
So why not just add winamp.com to the Trusted Zone then?
Problem solved :-)
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Old 23rd February 2006, 21:51   #37
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Was just going to say that.

Config for IE is on a per-zone basis. You can set normal browsing to be restricted, and what you trust to not be.

Or, you could visit shoutcast.com and winamp.com in your browser of choice.

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Old 24th February 2006, 00:56   #38
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I SIMPLY DONT LIKE IT
All those things trying to look better?
it hurts to navigate now!
I miss the old interface.... oH F*^k I'll just go back to 5.13 and wont update until this junk is fixed
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Old 24th February 2006, 01:05   #39
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It's not too bad actually...I opened the streams window and thought "great. they screwed it up". Played with it and so far the only complaint is the alternating shades separating the stations. That's not even all that bad but there should be an option to turn this off.

all in all I kinda like it.
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Old 24th February 2006, 01:33   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJ Egg
So you want to go back to being limited to a list of the top 1000 streams only?
I know for sure that I don't :/

There's over 13,000 sc radio streams available to you in the new browser.

And it's not slow or unresponsive for me, so maybe there's a problem with your Internet Explorer or something? All results appear almost instantly for me, even the larger Quick Genres.

However, I do kinda agree about the sc-tv listing. Seeing as there's only 300 or so tv streams, I guess it would be nice to be able to see a full list, or at least maybe the full list split over eg. 3 pages (<< 1 | 2 | 3 >>), heh.

But hey, as it's all controlled serverside, and is still a work in progress, subject to change at any time, then who knows what is possible or what will happen...

For example, Listener Count was actually still in/displayed in the earlier betas, but was removed. I guess it would be quite easy to add it back in (though we're not gonna make it so it sorts by 'popularity' by default), and I guess it would be quite easy to add "Bookmark" to the rt-click context menu for Shoutcast Radio & TV, etc etc.
And all this can be done serverside, with no client updates required.

[edit] re: posts below: how many of you are actually trying to broadcast a shoutcast station and get some listeners? My guess is none of you ;-) [/edit]

Or you could just edit ml_online.ini and add a link to shoutcast.com



fascinating... so they had the capability and option of making it user-friendly and accessible... but decided against it?

on top of those features i'd like to request the following:
*bring back search as you type
*a "show all" option.. you speak of wanting people to decide on what they like rather than basing it on popularity... right now people are going to be basing it on what they can find/see on their screen (many cuss words removed from that sentence)
*a lot more preferences/customizability in the "online services" options
*allow to sort list like media library (like old version).. honestly i don't want to read what every station's bittrate, song, capacity etc.
*better effing readability.. yes its two tone but it still strains me trying to search for the info i need out of that mess
*allow bookmarking of more than 1 stream on a server... duh!
*and for good measure throw in the option of viewing with cvs somewhere in the prefs

overall... junk... 13000 stations.. but you'll have to click forever to discover a good one. For now i'm sticking to my cozy few thou... at least i'll be able to access and see each and every one of them easily and quickly

this would be a real turnoff for people new to shoutcast.. the thing that drew me to winamp shoutcast as opposed to live365 and the other internet radio stations was its ease of use and clarity

edit* my bad if i sounded a little harsh.. but its pretty frustrating when something you really liked gets taken away
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