Old 9th June 2009, 13:18   #1
abu
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New iPhone 3Gs starting June 19

...and don't even think about asking here whether ml_ipod will support it!

No, I won't buy the newest Apple toy with the newest protection scheme, and as long as nobody else steps in for development, there will be NO SUPPORT for new iPod/iPhone devices that contain new encryption, new protection, new DRM or whatever the Apple guys invent next.

Their product philosophy simply doesn't fit at all to an OSS project like ml_iPod. That's sad, I know, but Apple does so much to make it hard or even impossible to manage their toys without iTunes. They want to force you to use iTunes, because they have way more control over your listening and buying habits that way. Hey, they make so much money with the iTunes store, of course they want to trick you in. That's the game. Apple's just a company that wants to make money, like everybody else.

But they are so rude against OSS developers that I don't want to support that any longer. I will try to keep ml_iPod as bug-free as possible for the existing devices, especially for the ones I use personally (nano and classic), but nothing else.

I'm sorry, but maybe pmp_ipod will be enhanced with all the new features that you need. It's getting better month by month, so check it out.

That's all for now, guys! Cheers, abu

WinAmp Pro 5.5 with ml_iPod 3.10 + dev.patches (download it)
ml_iPod documentation Wiki - ml_iPod FAQ - search ml_iPod forum - iPhone/iTouch - Found a bug?
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Last edited by abu; 21st June 2009 at 20:34.
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Old 9th June 2009, 20:25   #2
angelwolf71885
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dumb question...

do you own an iphone 1g?

or if ANYONE dose could thay kindly install the latest version of iphneOS 3.0 and see if ml_ipod still works..

if not o well... i love this plugin
i have a copy saved just incase the site and project ever gose poof
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Old 10th June 2009, 20:50   #3
abu
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I had one for testing purposes, but not any longer.

WinAmp Pro 5.5 with ml_iPod 3.10 + dev.patches (download it)
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Old 13th June 2009, 08:47   #4
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fair enough, abu. I certainly appreciate all the hard work you've done!

Two questions. Is it for sure that the 3Gs won't work with ml_ipod or are we all just preparing for the worst?

Secondly... 3GS is different from OS3.0 - are you projecting that OS3.0 won't work with ml_ipod too, or will that depend? Or if you don't mind me asking, will you be upgrading to that at least (since it shouldn't cost you anything lol!)

Alternatively what if someone else manages to break through as happened with the 3G iPhone? (Hoping against hope... lol)

Thanks again for everything
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Old 13th June 2009, 11:34   #5
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For those curious:

I put the gold master of 3.0 on my iPhone 3G. It reads the device fine, but no songs show up on the iPod app. So yeah.. new protections, I'm guessing. No surprise, really. It happens every time.

ml_iPod - [Homepage] | [Forums] | [Wiki]
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Old 13th June 2009, 15:14   #6
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Lovely. Thanks for letting us know. I'm still a bit unclear on what exactly abu meant, but hopefully the new OS isn't included in what he doesn't want to continue... :P

Sigh, if only I was a programmer... I wish I could keep updating the hack just to spite Apple. Hate, hate, hate.
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Old 13th June 2009, 15:36   #7
abu
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Quote:
Originally posted by Reaper
For those curious:

I put the gold master of 3.0 on my iPhone 3G. It reads the device fine, but no songs show up on the iPod app. So yeah.. new protections, I'm guessing. No surprise, really. It happens every time.
Oh well, they did it again! It's a shame, but it was to be expected. Too bad for us.

If an easy to use hack shows up, I might add it to ml_iPod, but I won't put too much effort into this.

WinAmp Pro 5.5 with ml_iPod 3.10 + dev.patches (download it)
ml_iPod documentation Wiki - ml_iPod FAQ - search ml_iPod forum - iPhone/iTouch - Found a bug?
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Old 15th June 2009, 23:33   #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by abu
Oh well, they did it again! It's a shame, but it was to be expected. Too bad for us.

If an easy to use hack shows up, I might add it to ml_iPod, but I won't put too much effort into this.
Yeah its a bit of a shame really because iTunes still has a fit at my music library. I noticed this shit going on with 3.0 betas a while back, so i went back to 2.2.1, but thats not an option anymore.
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Old 16th June 2009, 01:14   #9
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ok so heres what does and doesn't happen if someone is interested in looking..

* On eject step 1 and 2 happen, bails out at step 3
* All files are copied to the phone seemingly without issue

Also the library has possbily changed due to the addition of on-phone genius support. So that's a possibility as to why it broke?
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Old 17th June 2009, 20:02   #10
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here i smy experience, i got a little to happy when i thought discovery meant it worked

http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....53#post2532053

is there anything you can do abu?
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Old 18th June 2009, 08:19   #11
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Just read http://forums.winamp.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=307452 that you said it works?

Read in other forums that all other plugins have problems as well. They guess it is because of a new version of iTunesDB which is installed paralell to the old one (so this explains why old files can still be accessed but new files cannot be added).

How far is pmp_ipod in developing though?


btw: How to read and post urls here?

Last edited by abu; 21st June 2009 at 20:36.
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Old 20th June 2009, 03:17   #12
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Understandable, abu. I won't even buy any new Apple products anymore because they come out at such a fast clip. I'm happy with my 5.5G and Nano.. and both work flawlessly with ml_iPod!

Quote:
Originally posted by netswipe
btw: How to read and post urls here? [/B]
You have to be approved to post URLs here.

80GB iPod (5.5G) // Latest Winamp // Latest ml_iPod
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Old 20th June 2009, 18:52   #13
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Abu, been a pleasure working with you in the past. It was fun creating interesting ideas for the iPod. I'm still using my 5G iPod...and still waiting for that 60 or 80+ GB iPhone to come out.

There was no way a single programmer could keep up with all this crap when some kids jumped in your lap. Totally understandable and acceptable. I'll probably be back around ml_pmp or ml_iPod forums once I get my big HD iPhone in the future.

Much Respect.

edit: SWEET! I'm a 'Major Dude' now. I haven't been around much lately and just noticed this now.
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Old 21st June 2009, 08:58   #14
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aw to bad it came to this!
thanks for all the work, it worked like a charm until now...

any chance there is a way to make it work at least for jailbroken devices? or is that in no way different and just as hard to hack?
just tell me y/n, i may even have a look at the code...


@netswipe:
you can read masked URLs by pressing quote on the message. the URL will then show up in your new message area.
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Old 21st June 2009, 20:28   #15
abu
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Quote:
Originally posted by Grandchild
aw to bad it came to this!
thanks for all the work, it worked like a charm until now...

any chance there is a way to make it work at least for jailbroken devices? or is that in no way different and just as hard to hack?
just tell me y/n, i may even have a look at the code...
No, won't work either
The problem is the internal structure of a binary file (called iTunesDB), and that is protected and changed all the time by the Apple guys. It's really a pity.

Thanks for all the nice words, guys (esp. Stupifier). Yeah, it's been fun for a long time indeed, but over the last couple of months Apple really made it an utterly exhausting experience.

For the older devices, ml_iPod will continue to work, maybe even bugfixes will be released from time to time (no promise though).

WinAmp Pro 5.5 with ml_iPod 3.10 + dev.patches (download it)
ml_iPod documentation Wiki - ml_iPod FAQ - search ml_iPod forum - iPhone/iTouch - Found a bug?
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Old 25th June 2009, 13:17   #16
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hey, i just wanted to say that i've sort of got a work around that is working for me. as the bonehead that posted the overzealous 'ml_ipod works perfect for 3.0' post mentioned, the tracks seem to transport over to the device fine. However, they don't show up.

For me if i start up itunes with the device connected and then eject the device i can then see what i've uploaded to the ipod. the very first time i think i might have had to power cycle the device too.

for me this is perfectly acceptable because my main reason for wanting ml_ipod is because i want winamp to manage my music, not itunes. having to start up itunes and then close it immediately is a minor inconvenience.

I've only tested this 3 times however. I have a 2G itouch with jailbroken 3.0 (7A341) on it.

Thank you abu for the great plugin. enjoy the retirement. ;-).
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Old 25th June 2009, 14:18   #17
abu
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Quote:
Originally posted by ggenglish
Thank you abu for the great plugin. enjoy the retirement. ;-).
Retirement? With three toddlers in the house? Ha ha ha...

WinAmp Pro 5.5 with ml_iPod 3.10 + dev.patches (download it)
ml_iPod documentation Wiki - ml_iPod FAQ - search ml_iPod forum - iPhone/iTouch - Found a bug?
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Old 25th June 2009, 18:18   #18
Stupifier
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Quote:
Originally posted by abu
Retirement? With three toddlers in the house? Ha ha ha...
As a 23 year old single male.......I don't envy you. LOL
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Old 26th June 2009, 04:10   #19
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understandable but terrible news to hear. I finally retired my 60gig 5G ipod for a new 32gb iphone and i loved the ipod plugin i never had to install itunes. Sucks they change the DB so much that it forced you to not want to update it anymore.

Looks like i will have to install the evil product that is itunes.

Thanks for all your work to this point.
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Old 28th June 2009, 12:23   #20
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even the sftp-solution dont seems to work with firmware 3.0 - anybody able to see the wifi-connected/mounted iphone under devices?
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Old 28th June 2009, 12:40   #21
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ok I'm seeing it now, transferring does well, but afterwards the database is still somewhat screwed.

if only iTunes wouldnt be such a huge pile of crap...
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Old 28th June 2009, 12:53   #22
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I'm sorry, but maybe pmp_ipod will be enhanced with all the new features that you need. It's getting better month by month, so check it out.

as far as I can see, pmp_ipod isnt even able to sync winamps own smart views? Right? So what makes you so optimistic over much more complicated tasks like iphone support?
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Old 28th June 2009, 16:48   #23
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because there's been talk about it in other parts of the forums and that's more like something the management would devote resources to inorder to get implemented rather than smartviews since iPhone support is easier to tout around than what to some are minor features. this is the fun of a corporately backed project versus a 3rd party project without developers.

the main problem is that the people who can code do so on other projects/aren't interested in Winamp (which is fully understandable and something i'd love to be able to give up completely) or there is then the vast majority of users who aren't able to code but still want things done which without the coders is generally not going to happen. and i'm all for abu concentrating on his family over something for what is generally an overpriced piece of equipment.


and back on topic, from what i've been reading around, the new database file is a zlib'd version with some minor changes to the header formats (going on what is stated here and appears to work in the foo_dop).

-daz
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Old 1st July 2009, 02:33   #24
madLyfe
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it can be done....

this has been done by http://www.xilisoft.com/
but they prolly wont share lol... and its not free.. so its possible it can be done..
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Old 1st July 2009, 02:55   #25
angelwolf71885
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Re: it can be done....

Quote:
Originally posted by madLyfe
this has been done by http://www.xilisoft.com/
but they prolly wont share lol... and its not free.. so its possible it can be done..
http ://www . xilisoft . com/
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Old 1st July 2009, 18:07   #26
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http: //www . findleydesigns . com / ipodaccess / indexWin . html
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Old 1st July 2009, 18:19   #27
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Quote:
Originally posted by angelwolf71885
http: //www . findleydesigns . com / ipodaccess / indexWin . html
this actually doesnt transfer the the songs directly to the iphone/itouch... it just puts them into itunes.. and from there you sync with your iphone/itouch....
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Old 7th July 2009, 18:12   #28
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what about downgrading? How is it done?
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Old 12th July 2009, 17:16   #29
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ok.. is there to get it to export Winamps playlists and import music into my 3gs, I also want to get the album art since most of my songs have folder.jpg in it, and not embeded into the mp3..

i hate ituens!
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Old 24th July 2009, 19:52   #30
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Confirmed that GGenglish's workaround does indeed work for my Iphone 3GS.

Best way that worked for me is:
1. Transfer songs across to Iphone in winamp.
2. Exit winamp or eject device in winamp (to sync across).
3. Wait for sync to finish and then start itunes
4. Itunes will reread the database with the new songs.
5. Songs will now appear in iphone app!
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Old 30th July 2009, 18:17   #31
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Shucks.. that just did not work

it now shows a whole bunch of space in itunes saying that the space has been used, but I am not getting Itunes to rebuild the database.

also it shows the C: as the iphone.. odd?
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Old 6th August 2009, 19:12   #32
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It is indeed very sad to read this, as I love both: my Winamp and my iPhone. Of course I can understand your frustration, Abu. On the other hand, your plugin is the only way for 100.000's of Winamp users to place their music on their devices.

BUT IMHO I read that the most important features for OS 3.0+ are 1.000's new API functions. And there should be some easy APIs to have full access on the iPod-Player and the music database. Have you ever checked out the new functions for OS 3.0, Abu? I'm very sure that it's now easier to get your plugin working without having to hack some crappy backdoors. Give it a try! Because if it is like I said, your ml_ipod would run stable and fully functional as it is supposed to be. Thanks.
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Old 7th August 2009, 18:05   #33
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Hi mumpel,
I don't think you are right, sorry. The new API is for programming apps that run ON the iPhone, not for accessing the data from outside. It has always been Apple's policy to allow iTunes exclusively to put anything on an iPhone or iPod.

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ml_iPod documentation Wiki - ml_iPod FAQ - search ml_iPod forum - iPhone/iTouch - Found a bug?
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Old 18th August 2009, 14:59   #34
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As much as a resource hog, sluggish, unintuitive program itunes is, i would be happy to use it just for the sake of interfacing with my iphone, mainly transferring music. But since itunes now always freezes when transferring music (freezing from the infamous 'determining gap-less playback info'), this now makes the only proper way to transfer songs onto the iphone useless. Great. I loathe itunes.
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Old 19th August 2009, 19:32   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by FKM
Confirmed that GGenglish's workaround does indeed work for my Iphone 3GS.

Best way that worked for me is:
1. Transfer songs across to Iphone in winamp.
2. Exit winamp or eject device in winamp (to sync across).
3. Wait for sync to finish and then start itunes
4. Itunes will reread the database with the new songs.
5. Songs will now appear in iphone app!
Well I tried that and the songs did not appear in itunes. Has this been tested before with a jailbroken iphone? The songs are on my phone but in some remote location that is not read by the ipod app. Also, I transferred the songs from my ipod to my computer so all their names got scrambled with random letters. Now when I put them in itunes its fixed and I transfered the itunes library to winamp so the correct names are in there too. But when I transfered the files to that remote location on the iphone they're back with the scrambled names. Any suggestions on how to get them on my ipod app and with the correct name?
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Old 21st August 2009, 20:29   #36
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Jailbroken shouldn't makew a difference. But I can't test, have no iPhone.
The scrambled filenames are Apple's goodie, they require the filenames to be less than 9 chars But the iPhone/iPod does not even read the filenames, it only uses the iTunesDB, and there the correct names are written by ml_iPod.

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Old 16th September 2009, 02:09   #37
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iphone 3.1 won't work with ml_ipod at all!

I have read, and read, and READ, and can't seem to find a solution, and I have a feeling it's because I'm on 3.1 and people have yet to really start complaining. I know that the support is spotty, but I've tried all the steps I've read about and none work! I have a 32GB 3GS running 3.1 on itunes 9 and winamp 5.56 with ml_ipod 3.08. I've tried updating all software and it doesn't help.

This is the situation. My iphone shows up in winamp (as an "ipod"), but no songs that I put on it using itunes show up. I can drag and drop using winamp, but nothing I do will make them show up in itunes or the ipod app on the phone itself. Rebooting doesn't work. Holding home for 5 seconds brings up "voice control" and doesn't work. Opening itunes and syncing there (or just opening it...I never really use "sync" and have all automatic syncs disabled) after I eject from winamp and close winamp...doesn't WORK. I'm about to lose it.

I even tried downloading--GASP--MediaMonkey...which claims to support it. Guess what? It doesn't support that software version.

Right now I appear to be stuck with itunes, and I hate it. The album artwork which I worked so hard to compile with Album Art Aggregator (which for some reason no longer works) does not get applied with itunes and itunes only leaves about 5% of my album art applied, even when I use itunes to download it. Winamp workED great, now it doesn't work at all, and I'm about to drive my head through a wall.

All this worked VERY EASILY with my 80 GB classic, and although I love my new phone, I don't want Pandora to be my only option. Please help me!

Thx in advance.

edit: I'm not jailbroken and am a bit nervous about doing so.
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Old 16th September 2009, 02:12   #38
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Blame Apple. They keep changing the database. It's nothing new when it comes to new product releases from them.

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Old 16th September 2009, 19:05   #39
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Re: iphone 3.1 won't work with ml_ipod at all!

Quote:
Originally posted by infernalcolonel
...
All this worked VERY EASILY with my 80 GB classic, and although I love my new phone, I don't want Pandora to be my only option. Please help me!

Thx in advance.

edit: I'm not jailbroken and am a bit nervous about doing so.
Please re-read the first post in this thread. It's still the current situation, I'm sorry. Apple is driving me nuts with their change of database format with every SW release. Personally, I gave up, and as long as nobody else wants to step in here, we're lost. Sorry.

WinAmp Pro 5.5 with ml_iPod 3.10 + dev.patches (download it)
ml_iPod documentation Wiki - ml_iPod FAQ - search ml_iPod forum - iPhone/iTouch - Found a bug?
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Old 11th December 2009, 21:46   #40
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Hi

libgpod (an open source iTunes replacement for Linux) claims to be able to support OS 3 and read/write iTunesCDB...

The source seems to include a test program to convert between iTunesCDB and iTunesDB.

Could we learn from that somehow? I might have a look myself after Christmas as this is driving me mad!!
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