What do you want to see changed/fixed in the DSP?

will · 13th July 2005, 20:34

Hi shoutcasters!

I'm doing a bit of work on the next version of the shoutcast DSP (adding a new codec).

Because I care, is there anything (small) you'd like to see fixed or changed in the DSP?

Because I'm a contracter, I won't get paid for this, so nothing too big.

likearock · 13th July 2005, 20:42

Quote:

Because I'm a contracter, I won't get paid for this, so nothing too big.

That seems ass backwards.

Anyways, I think the biggest underlying problem is encoder 1. Fix that and all will be well

Also, if you can make that damned thing minimize to the tray or something instead of always being on top...god thats annoying.

dotme · 13th July 2005, 20:52

Here's one for you... the SAM encoder plugin for winamp somehow manages to still stream titles, even in soundcard mode. That feature is the main reason I dumped the shoutcast DSP in favor of a third party solution. I wanted to DJ, but didn't want to lose the ability to stream titles.

will · 13th July 2005, 21:04

Just to clarify, I'm going to be adding a new encoder (which is better than mp3). This is what I'm paid to do.

Because I love you guys, I'll be willing to fix stuff outside of this.

NJK · 13th July 2005, 21:10

Quote:

Originally posted by will
Just to clarify, I'm going to be adding a new encoder (which is better than mp3).

aac+ ??????

please, tell me it's true

drewbar · 13th July 2005, 21:11

It's VQF, yeah, that has to be it.

But, a minimize button (or hide) button would be nice.

will · 13th July 2005, 21:32

Yep, minimise to system tray is going to be in there.

(The work i have done will make it much easier to add new encoders which use the winamp enc_ plugin format. I cannot confirm if it will ship with aac+ or any other particular encoder in the future, but AAC+ is quite likely.)

tuckerm · 13th July 2005, 22:56

Quote:

Originally posted by will
Yep, minimise to system tray is going to be in there.

god i love you.

the DSP takes up so much room....
anyway i have nothing for the DSP, i do have DNAS ideas...

likearock · 14th July 2005, 06:21

Quote:

Originally posted by will
Yep, minimise to system tray is going to be in there.

Thank you kindly! I'm curious about the new encoder though...if I remember right, aac* is a paid encoder system...does that mean the new shout encoder will be a paid encoder? No more free encoder?

That would cut back on a lot of the stupid questions, but likely erk the cheap folks

If it was any good, I would pay for it. I like the SAM encoder, but it needs AAC* to keep up with the pack

Vchat20 · 14th July 2005, 13:40

although ive left the winamp/dsp solution for something better (sam3), i do like the modular encoder idea.

one feature which would be nice to add is a built in dsp "stacker" so that you can add effects to your stream such as crossfading, normalizing, etc. even in winamp streaming mode.

will · 14th July 2005, 15:29

Vchat: Hm. Thats a big thing. Maybe you could use a 3rd party DSP stacker.

Tom · 14th July 2005, 19:12

Quote:

Originally posted by dotme
Here's one for you... the SAM encoder plugin for winamp somehow manages to still stream titles, even in soundcard mode. That feature is the main reason I dumped the shoutcast DSP in favor of a third party solution. I wanted to DJ, but didn't want to lose the ability to stream titles.

Odd, my titles work when in Soundcard Input mode.

Will,
The things that I can think of are the following.
The 2 bugs detailed here: http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....25#post1419225
Fixing it so you don't have disable both Auto for the title updates and URL in order to get a manual title update to work.
I'm not sure how customizable the new encoder you are implementing is but it would be nice to have a little more control regarding the encoder settings over the default unconfigurable preset in LAME we currently have.

[edit]One more. When you switch out of Soundcard Input make it so it no longer limits the bitrate based on the samplerate you specified for your microphone.[/edit]

Tom

DJ AmPs · 14th July 2005, 20:58

Yep, fix all the bugs listed in the bug thread, at least what you are able to... it would help alot!!

Vchat20 · 14th July 2005, 21:01

Quote:

Originally posted by will
Vchat: Hm. Thats a big thing. Maybe you could use a 3rd party DSP stacker.

tried, but the title screaming get screwed to hell with that method. maybe the dsp stacker will work if you could grab the title another way?

tuckerm · 15th July 2005, 02:00

my titles work also in soundcard mode

will · 15th July 2005, 09:32

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom
Odd, my titles work when in Soundcard Input mode.

Will,
The things that I can think of are the following.
The 2 bugs detailed here: http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....25#post1419225
Fixing it so you don't have disable both Auto for the title updates and URL in order to get a manual title update to work.
I'm not sure how customizable the new encoder you are implementing is but it would be nice to have a little more control regarding the encoder settings over the default unconfigurable preset in LAME we currently have.

[edit]One more. When you switch out of Soundcard Input make it so it no longer limits the bitrate based on the samplerate you specified for your microphone.[/edit]

Tom

Ah cool. Thanks for the heads up with the bugs thread. I'll look into both of those.

The new encoder has lots of customisability. Way way better than the current one.

Thanks for the input tom

bored_womble · 15th July 2005, 13:03

i'll take a stab in here and ask ... this new codec, ultravox related ?

BW

zee100 · 15th July 2005, 15:22

How long do we have to wait for the new version?

Tom · 15th July 2005, 22:39

Quote:

Originally posted by will

Thanks for the input tom

You're welcome. Best of luck on the coding this is something that has been needed for quite sometime and I'm glad it's finally getting attention. If I could be of anymore help feel free to PM or email me.

Tom

Tom · 17th July 2005, 20:51

Support for international characters (title streaming).

Tom

GHOSTRADIONET · 18th July 2005, 14:40

.

The DSP works great for me at all times..
never a problem with it..

it would be great if it could be skin-able.... or even made to look like the "classic" Winamp player
which is the skin I use....I have no use for any other skin.....
90% of the 3rd party Winamp skins are garbage anyway...

the Winamp classic skins are stable....they look great and I never have to worry about Winamp crashes or other assoc. 3rd party skin problems..
I light it up... and walk away....check on it a few days later and it's still crankin out the stream..

Dock-able to the player is another item that would enhance the DSP...but not as interesting as being skin-able..

good luck with your project..

G.

DJ AmPs · 18th July 2005, 17:43

I second Tom's suggestion to add more configurability to the lame encoders.

GHOST: Skinning is very unneccesary. We need something that just works. How is a DSP skin going to improve your station?

GHOSTRADIONET · 18th July 2005, 22:27

Quote:

Skinning is very unneccesary. We need something that just works. How is a DSP skin going to improve your station?

Improve my station?
I don't feel it needs any improvement...
currently anyway...

everything is working great for me...
including the DSP itself (knock wood)

The question presented by the topic author, as I understood it, was:

"is there anything (small) you'd like to see fixed or changed in the DSP?"
Because I'm a contracter, I won't get paid for this, so nothing too big.

So....

I replied with what I would like to see changed on the DSP

DJ AmPs,
In the best interest of all who read and respond to the authors question...
I think it's best to stay on topic if we can...
would'nt you agree?

G.

NJK · 18th July 2005, 22:45

Quote:

Originally posted by Tom
Support for international characters (title streaming).

Tom

I second this request.

Than it will finally show the Clanned song with the right title instead of some gibberish english nonsense

SorceryKid · 18th July 2005, 23:18

I have an idea which I hope may be worth your consideration.

I'm not sure how much information a DSP plugin has about the main player application (such as the current song title, length, filename, etc.), but if it does have access to those details then it would be really invaluable if the DSP could provide either

a) integration of Windows Script Control so that users could actually write basic scripts to automate certain simple aspects of the DSP (for example being able to define a callback handler for when a track changes and then retrieving the ID3 tag details of the new track through a property so as to write it out to a file, or being able to reconnect to the server at a specified time, or being able to be notified when the server-connection is lost so that an email can be dispatched to the admin, etc.)

b) a runtime ActiveX Control interface so that other apps could "remote control" WinAmp (via WSH, HTA, etc.) to perform the same functionality as above.

A feature like this would be really invaluable for reporting purposes when it comes to music licensing. Right now there are limitations when it comes to monitoring playlists via the SHOUTcast server, but this would be the ideal solution. If it could be implemented even with a limited set of features (I'd be happy just seeing support for scripting through Windows Script with at least a minimal set of properties and methods for the player state and a select few event-notifications like OnPlay, OnStop, OnServerDisconnect, OnServerConnect, etc.) it would be totally outstanding!

Thanks for all the hard work you do in creating a valuable resource for the ecommunity.

will · 19th July 2005, 01:01

Ok i've added minimize to tray and fixed the two bugs in the bugs thread.

I've prolly added a whole load more bugs, but hopefully you guys can help me root out them later when we go into beta

As for international characters, i think this would require modification to winamp (not sure tho) making it impossible.

I am not going to add skinning because its a large job and not needed whatsoever.

A lot of you guys are suggesting large jobs for me to do, heh, I said i only have time to fix small things.

tuckerm · 19th July 2005, 01:52

lol ya just fix what you can will i will test the DSP if you want me to...whens it due to be out?

Tom · 19th July 2005, 02:46

Quote:

Originally posted by will

As for international characters, i think this would require modification to winamp (not sure tho) making it impossible.

Previous versions had limited support so it's not totally a Winamp issue. From the 1.8.0 changelog.
* Updated with better support for international characters (no doublebyte yet)

I'm not sure if it's something as simple as properly encoding the metadata before the title request or if it's more complicated than that.

Tom

ravetrax · 19th July 2005, 14:44

Quote:

Originally posted by likearock
Anyways, I think the biggest underlying problem is encoder 1. Fix that and all will be well

I can confirm this has been fixed.

Quote:

Originally posted by spaceplay
aac+ ?????? please, tell me it's true

it is true.

also, i haven't noticed the left channel bug, but maybe thats because of how i have it setup now...

i am using all 5 channels out, in this order:
1. 128k/44.1 mp3 stereo
2. 48k aac+ v2 parametric stereo
3. 24k aac+ v2 parametric stereo
4. 64k/44.1 mp3 mono
5. 24k/22.05 mp3 mono

cpu usage is fairly low for all encoding. and sounds pretty decent. it is being used with a 3rd party dsp stacker, allowing several plugins to be used as well.

protegechris · 19th July 2005, 14:53

Quote:

Originally posted by GHOSTRADIONET
[B]Improve my station?
I don't feel it needs any improvement...
currently anyway...

everyone's station has room for improvement as far as new features and other things.

Quote:

Originally posted by likearock
[B]Thank you kindly! I'm curious about the new encoder though...if I remember right, aac* is a paid encoder system...does that mean the new shout encoder will be a paid encoder? No more free encoder?

^^ What he said. I don't use the DSP for my station, but I use it sometimes for lan servers.

ravetrax · 19th July 2005, 15:30

shoutcast with aac+ support as far as i know should be free, i haven't heard anything about anyone wanting to charge for it so far.

there are other companies charging for aac+ encoders, but i think it is because they are smaller for profit companies.

Jkey · 19th July 2005, 15:47

i noticed on ravetrax 24k aac+ v2 parametric stereo stream
that it does not sound as clear(quality) as orbans encoder,maybe its my ears but maybe something to look into.

p.s please let me beta test when the opportunity to do
so happens soon

.
appart from encoder 1 and minimise i have nothing further to request.

ravetrax · 19th July 2005, 16:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Jkey
i noticed on ravetrax 24k aac+ v2 parametric stereo stream that it does not sound as clear(quality) as orbans encoder, maybe its my ears but maybe something to look into.

the interesting question is... how are you even compairing them? 2 different sources ~vs~ 2 different encoders will always have a different sound.

i have tested both the orban and shoutcast dsp encoders using aac+, however at this time, i can not discuss my final ratings on which is better... but i think it is safe to say i will not be using the orban encoder anytime in the future.

sns2015 · 20th July 2005, 17:53

...so, when can we expect the new version of the DSP? Is it days, weeks, months, years?

ravetrax · 20th July 2005, 18:06

unfortuatley, i have not been told when. i'm just testing and tring find annouying issues.

will · 20th July 2005, 22:21

Quote:

Originally posted by sns2015
...so, when can we expect the new version of the DSP? Is it days, weeks, months, years?

days to weeks.

However, the new encoder will come in weeks to months later (its a separate dll).

ravetrax · 21st July 2005, 00:35

Quote:

Originally posted by will
days to weeks. However, the new encoder will come in weeks to months later (its a separate dll).

lmao... i could have said that much... so in order to look somewhat knowledgeable... lets say... july 27!

but don't quote me on that because i really have no clue.

drewbar · 21st July 2005, 01:36

Will, I know you are not working on the DNAS, but I hope you know the right person to pass this on to. But can someone repackage the 1.9.5 version of the DNAS for Windows and include the sc_serv.ini file in a DOS text format, instead of the current UNIX Text format. It confuses the kiddies when they see no line breaks in notepad.

ravetrax · 21st July 2005, 01:47

Quote:

Originally posted by drewbar
Will, I know you are not working on the DNAS, but I hope you know the right person to pass this on to. But can someone repackage the 1.9.5 version of the DNAS for Windows and include the sc_serv.ini file in a DOS text format, instead of the current UNIX Text format. It confuses the kiddies when they see no line breaks in notepad.

not sure if it will do any good, but i'll pass it on.

CraigF · 21st July 2005, 10:56

Personally, I see that as a nice entry step to keep out the people who really have zero clue. But sure.

13th July 2005, 20:34	#1
will Nullsoft Newbie (Moderator) Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sheffield, England Posts: 5,569	What do you want to see changed/fixed in the DSP? Hi shoutcasters! I'm doing a bit of work on the next version of the shoutcast DSP (adding a new codec). Because I care, is there anything (small) you'd like to see fixed or changed in the DSP? Because I'm a contracter, I won't get paid for this, so nothing too big. DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS

13th July 2005, 20:52	#3
dotme Moderator Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: USA Posts: 4,024	Here's one for you... the SAM encoder plugin for winamp somehow manages to still stream titles, even in soundcard mode. That feature is the main reason I dumped the shoutcast DSP in favor of a third party solution. I wanted to DJ, but didn't want to lose the ability to stream titles. Atlantic Sound Factory Licensed by StreamLicensing \| Powered by Fast Serv \| Radionomy Broadcaster

13th July 2005, 21:04	#4
will Nullsoft Newbie (Moderator) Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sheffield, England Posts: 5,569	Just to clarify, I'm going to be adding a new encoder (which is better than mp3). This is what I'm paid to do. Because I love you guys, I'll be willing to fix stuff outside of this. DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS

13th July 2005, 21:11	#6
drewbar Sawg 2.0 Major Dude Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,916	It's VQF, yeah, that has to be it. But, a minimize button (or hide) button would be nice. Count with us! Jan 1st, 12AM (PST, GMT -8) 2010 - 282,246

13th July 2005, 21:32	#7
will Nullsoft Newbie (Moderator) Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sheffield, England Posts: 5,569	Yep, minimise to system tray is going to be in there. (The work i have done will make it much easier to add new encoders which use the winamp enc_ plugin format. I cannot confirm if it will ship with aac+ or any other particular encoder in the future, but AAC+ is quite likely.) DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS

14th July 2005, 13:40	#10
Vchat20 Major Dude Join Date: Aug 2002 Posts: 1,273	although ive left the winamp/dsp solution for something better (sam3), i do like the modular encoder idea. one feature which would be nice to add is a built in dsp "stacker" so that you can add effects to your stream such as crossfading, normalizing, etc. even in winamp streaming mode.

14th July 2005, 15:29	#11
will Nullsoft Newbie (Moderator) Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sheffield, England Posts: 5,569	Vchat: Hm. Thats a big thing. Maybe you could use a 3rd party DSP stacker. DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS

14th July 2005, 20:58	#13
DJ AmPs Major Dude Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: g Posts: 1,603	Yep, fix all the bugs listed in the bug thread, at least what you are able to... it would help alot!! BB 192k Mp3 HIGH DEFINITION \| BB 24k Mp3 \| BB 20k WMA \| BB Community __________________________ My Host - Fast-Serv.com \| Free Shoutcast Hosting - Coming Soon...

15th July 2005, 02:00	#15
tuckerm Forum Emo Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,365	my titles work also in soundcard mode @tuckerm

15th July 2005, 13:03	#17
bored_womble Winamp's Womble Join Date: May 2004 Location: Wimbledon Common Posts: 1,100	i'll take a stab in here and ask ... this new codec, ultravox related ? BW Without open minds the world will die. Open yours and correct the mistakes you are making right now.

15th July 2005, 15:22	#18
zee100 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Germany Posts: 169	How long do we have to wait for the new version?

17th July 2005, 20:51	#20
Tom Moderator Join Date: Apr 2000 Posts: 4,491	Support for international characters (title streaming). Tom

18th July 2005, 14:40	#21
GHOSTRADIONET Banned Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 155	. The DSP works great for me at all times.. never a problem with it.. it would be great if it could be skin-able.... or even made to look like the "classic" Winamp player which is the skin I use....I have no use for any other skin..... 90% of the 3rd party Winamp skins are garbage anyway... the Winamp classic skins are stable....they look great and I never have to worry about Winamp crashes or other assoc. 3rd party skin problems.. I light it up... and walk away....check on it a few days later and it's still crankin out the stream.. Dock-able to the player is another item that would enhance the DSP...but not as interesting as being skin-able.. good luck with your project.. G.

18th July 2005, 17:43	#22
DJ AmPs Major Dude Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: g Posts: 1,603	I second Tom's suggestion to add more configurability to the lame encoders. GHOST: Skinning is very unneccesary. We need something that just works. How is a DSP skin going to improve your station? BB 192k Mp3 HIGH DEFINITION \| BB 24k Mp3 \| BB 20k WMA \| BB Community __________________________ My Host - Fast-Serv.com \| Free Shoutcast Hosting - Coming Soon...

18th July 2005, 23:18	#25
SorceryKid Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2000 Posts: 294	I have an idea which I hope may be worth your consideration. I'm not sure how much information a DSP plugin has about the main player application (such as the current song title, length, filename, etc.), but if it does have access to those details then it would be really invaluable if the DSP could provide either a) integration of Windows Script Control so that users could actually write basic scripts to automate certain simple aspects of the DSP (for example being able to define a callback handler for when a track changes and then retrieving the ID3 tag details of the new track through a property so as to write it out to a file, or being able to reconnect to the server at a specified time, or being able to be notified when the server-connection is lost so that an email can be dispatched to the admin, etc.) b) a runtime ActiveX Control interface so that other apps could "remote control" WinAmp (via WSH, HTA, etc.) to perform the same functionality as above. A feature like this would be really invaluable for reporting purposes when it comes to music licensing. Right now there are limitations when it comes to monitoring playlists via the SHOUTcast server, but this would be the ideal solution. If it could be implemented even with a limited set of features (I'd be happy just seeing support for scripting through Windows Script with at least a minimal set of properties and methods for the player state and a select few event-notifications like OnPlay, OnStop, OnServerDisconnect, OnServerConnect, etc.) it would be totally outstanding! Thanks for all the hard work you do in creating a valuable resource for the ecommunity.

19th July 2005, 01:01	#26
will Nullsoft Newbie (Moderator) Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Sheffield, England Posts: 5,569	Ok i've added minimize to tray and fixed the two bugs in the bugs thread. I've prolly added a whole load more bugs, but hopefully you guys can help me root out them later when we go into beta As for international characters, i think this would require modification to winamp (not sure tho) making it impossible. I am not going to add skinning because its a large job and not needed whatsoever. A lot of you guys are suggesting large jobs for me to do, heh, I said i only have time to fix small things. DO NOT PM ME WITH TECH SUPPORT QUESTIONS

19th July 2005, 01:52	#27
tuckerm Forum Emo Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 8,365	lol ya just fix what you can will i will test the DSP if you want me to...whens it due to be out? @tuckerm

19th July 2005, 15:30	#31
ravetrax Major Dude Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Clearwater, FL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My name is Rava www.ravetrax.com Posts: 541	shoutcast with aac+ support as far as i know should be free, i haven't heard anything about anyone wanting to charge for it so far. there are other companies charging for aac+ encoders, but i think it is because they are smaller for profit companies. Echo34 - A music related irc network for the socially challenged. [ website \| chat now ] Stream Solutions - The next level of Shoutcast server hosting! [ website \| forums ] RaveTrax - Its not a state of mind, Its a way of life. [ website \| forums \| chatroom ] » Gen2 A/V Streams - NSV Video [vp6.2 & 64k aacPlus v2] - 64k aacPlus v2 - 24k aacPlus v2 » AMPX Player - Web based player that plays ALL streams! [Audio & Audio/Video] » Other Streams - 160k MP3 - 64k MP3 - 24k MP3

19th July 2005, 15:47	#32
Jkey Forum King Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: E*arth Posts: 3,031	i noticed on ravetrax 24k aac+ v2 parametric stereo stream that it does not sound as clear(quality) as orbans encoder,maybe its my ears but maybe something to look into. p.s please let me beta test when the opportunity to do so happens soon . appart from encoder 1 and minimise i have nothing further to request. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

20th July 2005, 17:53	#34
sns2015 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 218	...so, when can we expect the new version of the DSP? Is it days, weeks, months, years?

20th July 2005, 18:06	#35
ravetrax Major Dude Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Clearwater, FL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ My name is Rava www.ravetrax.com Posts: 541	unfortuatley, i have not been told when. i'm just testing and tring find annouying issues. Echo34 - A music related irc network for the socially challenged. [ website \| chat now ] Stream Solutions - The next level of Shoutcast server hosting! [ website \| forums ] RaveTrax - Its not a state of mind, Its a way of life. [ website \| forums \| chatroom ] » Gen2 A/V Streams - NSV Video [vp6.2 & 64k aacPlus v2] - 64k aacPlus v2 - 24k aacPlus v2 » AMPX Player - Web based player that plays ALL streams! [Audio & Audio/Video] » Other Streams - 160k MP3 - 64k MP3 - 24k MP3

21st July 2005, 01:36	#38
drewbar Sawg 2.0 Major Dude Join Date: Mar 2004 Posts: 5,916	Will, I know you are not working on the DNAS, but I hope you know the right person to pass this on to. But can someone repackage the 1.9.5 version of the DNAS for Windows and include the sc_serv.ini file in a DOS text format, instead of the current UNIX Text format. It confuses the kiddies when they see no line breaks in notepad. Count with us! Jan 1st, 12AM (PST, GMT -8) 2010 - 282,246

21st July 2005, 10:56	#40
CraigF Passionately Apathetic Administrator Join Date: May 2000 Location: Hell Posts: 5,435	Personally, I see that as a nice entry step to keep out the people who really have zero clue. But sure.

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