What's the deal with AOL and Nullsoft and Winamp?

[KrunkedUp187]

This might also fit in the general so u might see it there... I put this topic here, because in the official press release for WA3 it announces: America Online Releases Winamp 3.0 Beta Developer Edition. So I think wait, didn't i read that back in the version 1 days, Winamp was the product of an AOL company, Nullsoft. And then i seem to remember that AOL actually dropped Nullsoft because they didn't want to be associated with the MP3 revolution. Then, more recently, there was an AOL icon stuck in the intaller, in version 2.65. So did AOL re-sign Nullsoft? What's the deal?

[CraigF]

they havent ever been dropped from aol. you are probably getting confused with 'the gnutella incident'.

[KrunkedUp187]

yeah, that sounds familier, what is that about?

If AOL and microsoft are at odds, why does AOL use IE?

[ertmann|CPH]

a stinky deal! - AOL use IE, in return Microsoft ships Windows with some AOL Features -
quite ironic actualy

[jimmybfan]

Nullsoft was originally a companay founded by Justin Frankel, the creator of Winamp. Nullsoft was bought by AOL when Nullsoft was sued by the company who owned the rights to the AMP software that Winamp originaly used to decode mp3s (hence the name winamp). I forget why they were sued , but it was for somewhere in the range of 10 million and they obviously couldnt pay, so they made a deal with AOL and have been a part of AOL since then. AOL did force Nullsoft to stop work on gnutella hours after it was released.

[}}Killer Wombat{{]

AOHell are evil, they buy big (small) company that makes good things, this sorta makes them neutral, but in many eyes, they are still evil.

[james]

yeah, stick with small, understaffed, underfunded software companies . . .

[Ice]

Originally posted by }}Killer Wombat{{
AOHell are evil, they buy big (small) company that makes good things, this sorta makes them neutral, but in many eyes, they are still evil.

did you even read the post by jimmybfan?

aol bought nullsoft, and it got them out of a lot of legal trouble. not only that, now you can download winamp free of charge (legally)

[Gonzotek]

aol bought nullsoft, and it got them out of a lot of legal trouble. not only that, now you can download winamp free of charge (legally)

And other great Nullsoft stuff like NSIS, Shoutcast, wwwinamp, AVS... and then there are (of course) the gnutella clones. If you love something set it free .

I like to think that if AOL hadn't bailed out Nullsoft a lot of those products either wouldn't have gotten made, or wouldn't have been as wholly developed as most of them are.

AOL has developed an interesting AOL@School program that has gotten a lot of praise. The critisism consists mostly of "Well...It's got an AOL logo, so it must be bad." --referring to the fact that AOL is going after children as consumers. I'm sorry, but they aren't advertising other companies, there's just an AOL banner. And if a company wants to put the resources and energy into a program that *actually* assists educators for free, I think they have a right to say "We made this."


I've gone through having AOL on the Mac (1.0 or 2.0), loving the early file libraries, to dumping it for @home and hating the "newbie-ness" of AOLers, to seeing the usefulness of having a company with the resources and power and legal clout of a company as big as them behind you.

-=Gonzotek=-

[bonj]

Originally posted by sawg
Rumor has it that next versions of AOL and Compuserve will use the Gecko engibe, and not IE

Yes. Microsoft is not shipping WinXP with AOL bundled, so AOL will use Gecko now. I don't really see how Microsoft benefited from AOL using IE anyway.

[djd5000]

Originally posted by }}Killer Wombat{{
AOHell are evil, they buy big (small) company that makes good things, this sorta makes them neutral, but in many eyes, they are still evil.

This is the most true statement i have read in a long long time. I they hadn't have sued in the first place they wouldn't have bought up winamp so we would all be happy.

My GOD. I don't believe that a quality piece of software is even associated with them.

[djd5000]

Originally posted by bonj

Yes. Microsoft is not shipping WinXP with AOL bundled, so AOL will use Gecko now. I don't really see how Microsoft benefited from AOL using IE anyway.

Good on Microsoft

[Ice]

Originally posted by djd5000


This is the most true statement i have read in a long long time. I they hadn't have sued in the first place they wouldn't have bought up winamp so we would all be happy.

My GOD. I don't believe that a quality piece of software is even associated with them.

your memory is real bad. AOL didn't sue nullsoft.

the original creator of AMP did (now a company called PlaySoft, i think). he said that Nitrane was AMP, and justin said it was all changed code.

[whiteflip]

stick with smaller companies? then should i use sonique?

how about i stick with the best and use winamp, WinXP, and IE (mozilla is still cooking)

AOL, Netscape 6 and even MSN are shit. Tryin to do too much (like MusicMatch Juke Box)

And with AOL and Microsoft being partners and not is you know who cares? as long as their is a web browser on the operating system i buy so that i can download a better web browser im happy.

[SarCaSM]

Originally posted by whiteflip
AOL, Netscape 6 and even MSN are shit. Tryin to do too much (like MusicMatch Juke Box)

I'd be putting Windows XP in that category too then.

[whiteflip]

WinXP does a lot but it does it well! Winamp3 hypothetically could be put in the category of too much but it does it very well that is why i didnt black list it.

[scratch]

Originally posted by bonj

Yes. Microsoft is not shipping WinXP with AOL bundled, so AOL will use Gecko now. I don't really see how Microsoft benefited from AOL using IE anyway.

it gave them 30 million more IE users.

[Ice]

i think there was also some money involved.

i dont get why microsoft would allow aol to use their rendering engine in the first place. the rendering engine doesn't have the "features" of internet explorer or XP... everything doesn't redirect to MSN services.

[whiteflip]

yeah active x is a bunch of shit

SWAG is so smart, i wonder if he will be featured in history books. i wonder if the browser wars will be featured in american history.

[FooFighterMeph]

The real reason that even if Microsoft and AOL are at odds with each other, but AOL still supports IE, is that AOL's browser is really IE in disguise.

I know this, as I am one of the people paid to give support to people with "technical queries" with AOL.

Nullsoft was bought over by AOL, and as far as I know, are still with AOL.

[KrunkedUp187]

(note: long but reminiscent)

it all started to be a big deal when IE 4.0 came out... do u guys remember that?

well, ok.. back around 1 or 2, (IE and Netscape are almost paralel in versions), netscape actully charged 55.95 i believe. i remember cuz i was in 7th grade (im a freshman in college now) and netscapes stocks were off the charts. they had effectivly gotten everyone under their arm. Now I dont know if IE ever charged, but they sure as shit started including the free one (bundled with realplayer lol, now real is arch-enemies with microsoft) in their software.

well it wasnt long till netscape dropped it to 39.95 (i have a catagoric memory) cuz IE3.0 came out with OSR1 or 2 (not sure exactly). And soon after that, it was free, netscape put easter egg disses on microsoft all over the place, and the shit got real started...

and along came big bad 4.0... LOOKOUT. It was almost like a whole new OS for Win95 (frontside that is). Active desktop, channels (wtf?), and basicly everything else to take over ur computer. now this is when the OEM's started to worry. I think like HP didnt like the new look and included their own crappy OS, so MS threw a fit and threatened to drop their licence. MS also made it say microsoft internet explorer on the startup screen.

and so now, netscape cries to mommy (the justice dept) that its unfair and cries the M word (monopoly). somewhere around here, the new Communicator comes out, with a mail thing, a browser, news, and webpage design.

So here, microsoft wants more of the pie, and signs an agreement with AOL that they will put 4.0 in with their software, instead of the stupid AOL one. that basiclly put the casket in the hole for microsoft. Somehow all versions of Netscape all have, and still do have, AIM integrated but thats probably because of some age old contract that netscape clings on to -- or because netscape had something to do with the degign of AIM.

now i dont know why the fuck MS is so mad at AOL but i heard it on the news... i bet AOL changed IE or some shit and MS threw a fit (steve jobs, that crack pot). So i hear that and think that the whole AOL-IE integration is gone, and sure enough, it is.

So now i guess its AOLTW on one side and MS and its bitch, MSN, on the other. Netscape... the only people that use them are the first couple of geeks, teachers, and librarians who bought the first one. netscape was esentially killed by free IE. maybe if they have any brains (or dough) they'd get in bed with AOLTW and have their new browser bundled with the next AOL version (8 i believe (and wtf is AOL7 about)). And who know, maybe in the far future AOLTW might try and come up with its own (spy on u like the CIA) OS. they got the balls and the bux but its not likely.

so here we stand, MS -vs- AOLTW... the future of the internet...

signed, Elliott Plack
after a night on the town
9:45 on 10-28-2001

[molotov]

just to toss this one out here, AOL owns netscape.


i'd be more worried about aol's monopoly now that it's the whole aol-time-warner thing. at least microsoft makes USABLE, quality software most of the time...

[whiteflip]

you know im ok with a monopoly when[list=a][*]They have quality products or service[*]their prices are competitive[*]they can compete with contenders price wise[*]they don't screw other compaines over by blocking them out to consumers[/list=a]
Microsoft is almost ok. They kinda screwed up with XP including messenger and all that but left it open so pc makers can include aol stuff too
AOL is shit. it doesn't meet any of the good stuff.

[Comp-U-Comp]

Don't forget that both Netscape Navigator (formerly MCOM (Mosiac Communications) Netscape) and MS Internet Explorer (formerly Spyglass Internet Explorer (formerly Spyglass Mosaic)) are both derviative products of NSCA (National Center for Supercomputing Applications @ U. of Illinois) Mosaic. Mozilla means the Monster that will slay Mosaic and Mozilla.org's Mozilla no longer uses the Mozilla Engine.


Apache Server is another NCSA derivative product begining as a series of patches for NCSA Server (A Patchy Server).

[KrunkedUp187]

Originally posted by whiteflip
you know im ok with a monopoly when[list=a][*]They have quality products or service[*]their prices are competitive[*]they can compete with contenders price wise[*]they don't screw other compaines over by blocking them out to consumers[/list=a]
Microsoft is almost ok. They kinda screwed up with XP including messenger and all that but left it open so pc makers can include aol stuff too
AOL is shit. it doesn't meet any of the good stuff.

dude, i assume ur jokin cuz part of being a monopoly is not haveing any competition. if they were a full blown monopoly then they could set the price at whatever they like. (which they do, look at office premium). Companies like Netscape and WordPerfect (thats not the company but i forgot it's name) argue that since everyone basicly has windows, that its unfair for windows to include their own browser software and word and stuff with it. cuz then y would anybody wanna take the effort to switch when its all right there for u... thats what that whole monopoly thing was about.

competition is one of the principles of capitalism.

[loveisweakness]

Originally posted by FooFighterMeph
The real reason that even if Microsoft and AOL are at odds with each other, but AOL still supports IE, is that AOL's browser is really IE in disguise.

I know this, as I am one of the people paid to give support to people with "technical queries" with AOL.

and everyone else knows that because it's a little more then obvious when you use it.

peace
liw

[deathazre]

ah screw it, there's a flame war going on here, I'm in :-)

MS is trash. (ever wonder why there was a Win98 SE? it's cause Win98 had too many bugs and they wanted to meet their release date!) (wheeeeeeee I'm paying $0.0000001 a bug!)
WinXP is trash. (why does my scanner software reboot my computer for no reason?)
AOL is trash. ($25 for crappy dial-up? I pay $40 a month for a cable modem with more than TWICE the downstream bandwidth of a T1 line!)
same for MSN.
hmmm sign up with Compuserve for 3 years and save $400 on a computer. Or sign up with a smaller ISP and spend less over said 3 years.
AOL is once again trash. I want my games back you rotten thief! (Raider Wars, Silent Death, Darkness Falls...)
Almost all computer companies are trash cause you can't buy shit for Linux. (I'm sorry, when it said Microsoft on it, I thought it would be RELIABLE...)
anyone feel like buying out said companies and/or knocking some sense (or a rifle round) into their CEO's heads?

[Rocker]

why hasn't this thread been moved to the general discussion?

it doesn't have anything to do with winamp3

oh well

[henry3k56]

I agree, this has no relevance with the WA3 Discussion. I took about 1/2 an hour reading this whole thread. Nothing informative on Winamp, just our parent company AOL duking it out with our competitor MSN.

[CraigF]

moved to GD

[Curi0us_George]

Just in case he comes here. . .

Originally posted by deathazre
MS is trash. (ever wonder why there was a Win98 SE? it's cause Win98 had too many bugs and they wanted to meet their release date!) (wheeeeeeee I'm paying $0.0000001 a bug!)

There was a second edition to add some functionality. The majority of the libraries were completely unchanged.

It was primarily a marketting ploy. People with operfectly working Win98 went out and bought 98se, for no reason.

WinXP is trash. (why does my scanner software reboot my computer for no reason?)

Because your scanner software is trash.

AOL is trash. ($25 for crappy dial-up? I pay $40 a month for a cable modem with more than TWICE the downstream bandwidth of a T1 line!)
same for MSN.

You are NOT getting twice the bandwidth of a T1 line on your cable modem.

hmmm sign up with Compuserve for 3 years and save $400 on a computer. Or sign up with a smaller ISP and spend less over said 3 years.

Whatever. That's another marketting technique. No one is forcing it on you.

AOL is once again trash. I want my games back you rotten thief! (Raider Wars, Silent Death, Darkness Falls...)

Sorry, I've got no idea what you are talking about. If AOL bought out the companies producing that software, and then stopped selling it, then the original companies take just as much blame. They didn't have to sell out.

You can't expect a company to sell the same products indefinitely. It doesn't make any sort of business sense.

Almost all computer companies are trash cause you can't buy shit for Linux. (I'm sorry, when it said Microsoft on it, I thought it would be RELIABLE...)
anyone feel like buying out said companies and/or knocking some sense (or a rifle round) into their CEO's heads?

Once again, it doesn;t make sense for most companies to produce software for Linux. Most Linux users are anal about everything they use being open source. They don't want to pay for anything.

It's hard to fund a company on good will.

[henry3k56]

I somehow agree. Here's a list of my opinions.
1. Microsoft programs always crash, one way or another.
2. AOL accounts for the 30 million who aren't internet intelligent.
3. MSN is for the people who thought they were getting a better deal than AOL.
4. T/3 is the fastest internet connection possible, but isn't worth it because sites haven't upgraded their bandwidth. (Or they have, but you have internet traffic to get to the site.)
5. Get updates for your I/O devices when you use XP.
6. Compuserve is the exact shadow of AOL.
7. Linux is for the anarchy people of Microsoft.
8. Cable goes 2x faster than DSL, but encounters connection slowdowns.

[fish]

Originally posted by henry3k56
4. T/3 is the fastest internet connection possible, but isn't worth it because sites haven't upgraded their bandwidth. (Or they have, but you have internet traffic to get to the site.)

I beg to differ.

The fastest you can get is an OC-255 line, 13.21 Gbps. [see]

These cost around $62,000 a month I've heard so I don't think you'll have one in your living room any time soon

[henry3k56]

Excuse me for that misinformation. I've only heard of up to T/3 line. Since my school has a T/1 line. I went to your link, and you're right! But it only depends on bandwidth, and internet traffic you encounter while online. I'll redo #4

4. An OC-255 line, (13.21 Gbps) is the fastest internet connection possible, but isn't worth it because sites haven't upgraded their bandwidth. (Or they have, but you have internet traffic to get to the site.)

Happy!?

PS: What would you do with an OC-255 line, compared to what you can do with a T/3 line? It only depends on how big your network is, how fast you want to post information, and see how to gobble up websites for breakfast....

[thelost_warrior]

WinXp? The Best? not perfectly yet, take a look at the benchmarks.
Netscape 6 shit? no. Not at all. First 2 releases of it weren't that great, but 6.2 kicks ass. And if netscape 6 sucks, mozilla really sucks since netscape 6 was partly built off of mozilla and is more advanced. Check out what CNET has to say about IE vs. Netscape.
http://www.cnet.com/software/0-32278...-1.html?tag=ld

I'm not saying that XP sucks, it is a very good operating system, and I'm not saying IE is shit either, I use it and Netscape, and have been recentely using the latest build of Mozilla. Just remember to look at the facts.

Originally posted by whiteflip
stick with smaller companies? then should i use sonique?

how about i stick with the best and use winamp, WinXP, and IE (mozilla is still cooking)

AOL, Netscape 6 and even MSN are shit. Tryin to do too much (like MusicMatch Juke Box)

And with AOL and Microsoft being partners and not is you know who cares? as long as their is a web browser on the operating system i buy so that i can download a better web browser im happy.

[fish]

Originally posted by henry3k56
Happy!?

Sorry dude, just trying to have a friendly debate

[henry3k56]

That don't mind me. I always have sarcastic phrases.
I would have expected a "No I'm not happy yet" response.

[henry3k56]

Originally posted by thelost_warrior
WinXp? The Best? not perfectly yet, take a look at the benchmarks.
Netscape 6 shit? no. Not at all. First 2 releases of it weren't that great, but 6.2 kicks ass. And if netscape 6 sucks, mozilla really sucks since netscape 6 was partly built off of mozilla and is more advanced. Check out what CNET has to say about IE vs. Netscape.
http://www.cnet.com/software/0-32278...-1.html?tag=ld

I'm not saying that XP sucks, it is a very good operating system, and I'm not saying IE is shit either, I use it and Netscape, and have been recentely using the latest build of Mozilla. Just remember to look at the facts.

XP sucks because it takes up alot of memory and hdd space. You have to get a good machine..A Pentium3 (at least) and/or a Pentium4, or a GHZ Athlon to make it run smoothly. Not everyone can afford a new computer. Not in this economy.

Netscape 6.2 vs. IE6. I think I will stick with Netscape 4.78, and IE 5.5. I've tried Netscape 6.2, its slower than IE6. IE6 is integrated with the OS, so it can run faster. Netscape 6.2 has to run on its own, taking time, to load.
Also MSN is screwed over because it won't allow certain versions of Netscape to view the MSN website. I tried Netscape 4.02 to load pages from other multimedia sites and it rendered everything perfectly, like IE. Also MSN allows IE3 and IE4 go into the MSN website without hassle. Whats up with that?

[thelost_warrior]

Have you ever tried Netscape 6.2??
Just wondering

Originally posted by KrunkedUp187

So now i guess its AOLTW on one side and MS and its bitch, MSN, on the other. Netscape... the only people that use them are the first couple of geeks, teachers, and librarians who bought the first one. netscape was esentially killed by free IE. maybe if they have any brains (or dough) they'd get in bed with AOLTW and have their new browser bundled with the next AOL version (8 i believe (and wtf is AOL7 about)). And who know, maybe in the far future AOLTW might try and come up with its own (spy on u like the CIA) OS. they got the balls and the bux but its not likely.

[thelost_warrior]

They fixed the crap with competitor browsers trying to use msn now, probably due to the amount of complaints they've been getting.
About Netscape 6.x slow loading times in the 6.x versions of netscape and the latest builds from mozilla there is an option somewhere in the preferences (and install w/ 6.2) called "quick launch" which significantly, very significantly speeds up it's loading time. I've tried it. It kicks ass.

Originally posted by henry3k56


XP sucks because it takes up alot of memory and hdd space. You have to get a good machine..A Pentium3 (at least) and/or a Pentium4, or a GHZ Athlon to make it run smoothly. Not everyone can afford a new computer. Not in this economy.

Netscape 6.2 vs. IE6. I think I will stick with Netscape 4.78, and IE 5.5. I've tried Netscape 6.2, its slower than IE6. IE6 is integrated with the OS, so it can run faster. Netscape 6.2 has to run on its own, taking time, to load.
Also MSN is screwed over because it won't allow certain versions of Netscape to view the MSN website. I tried Netscape 4.02 to load pages from other multimedia sites and it rendered everything perfectly, like IE. Also MSN allows IE3 and IE4 go into the MSN website without hassle. Whats up with that?