Old 8th October 2011, 04:16   #1
damenace
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Media Library memory leak?

Winamp 5.621 (build 3173)
Clean install, no 3rd-party skins or plugins
Also happened in 5.62


OS: Windows 7 Ultimate (64-bit)
Locale: English US
CPU: core duo@2.1 GHz
Memory: 3GB RAM
DirectX 11

Problem:
Winamp crashes due to RAM overconsumption when adding huge library

Method of Reproduction:
- Select a folder with more than 2000albums as a Watched Folder
- Scan
- RAM will fill up and then at around 1500MB RAM Winamp will crash
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Old 9th October 2011, 22:08   #2
MrSinatra
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i have seen that as well, and i think its somehow related to winamp not closing when exiting too. i don't know if its a memory leak, or if winamp is just trying to load too much at one time into memory?

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Old 10th October 2011, 07:39   #3
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Hi damenace,

I suggest you increase your RAM to at least 4GB. I think this is more Windows' fault
than Winamp's, unless it's a memory leak. Windows memory management (real and
virtual) is supposed to handle an app's demand for memory. The worst that is supposed
to happen is a slow down of performance as data in RAM is swapped to and from the
hard drive. In any event, more real RAM is better than virtual.

I have not experienced excessive RAM use when doing a simple scan of watch folders
with this version of Winamp. I have seen dramatic RAM use increases, to the level you
stated and more, when doing certain scans involving Gracenote. However, I have 4GB
of RAM installed with Win 7 Home Premium 64-bit and have not had a crash. The high
memory levels slowly drop after these scans complete.

I close other foreground apps when doing something with Winamp that I know (from
past experience) will reguire a lot of memory. I also have my system set to give priority
to background tasks (have not noticed a drop in performance of foreground tasks). I've
shut down a lot of not needed things (services and tasks), but Win 7 still has a lot of
random stuff going on in the background. I want to be sure these things can execute
and get out of the way as soon as possible.

These work-arounds should not be needed on a fast system and may not help in your
case.

Hi MrSinatra,

on July 29, 2011 you stated,

"i have 50k+ and NEVER had it crash scanning my files. not saying it doesn't happen,
but it def doesn't happen to me."

In that post you went on to state a crash may be related to something in the files. Has
something changed or were you referring to a different Winamp version?
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Old 10th October 2011, 18:38   #4
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there is a difference between a crash and ram over-consumption. it doesn't crash, but i do see the ram used get bigger and bigger over time.

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Old 10th October 2011, 21:19   #5
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it's winamp for sure. not windows. and increasing ram would not help anything.

winamp just keeps using more and more ram and just does not stop. at some point it will crash. in my case it's usually around 1.5gb of ram. i reckon the system then prevents winamp from using any more and winamp crashes.

if winamp worked properly it would occasionally empty the ram used. it would not flood ram.

this is definetly a bug. i use other database programs and they use up maybe 200mb of ram doing the same operation.
but winamp just keeps filling ram until it crashes.

of course if your database is small enough, it won't happen. or if your database is already built and it only needs to refresh.

but if you, like me, have a 2000 album library with hundreds of artists and you build it from scratch, then it will crash everytime.
only way to prevent it is stop the scan before winamp crashes and then shutdown winamp. the ram will be emptied and i can reopen winamp and it will start at 100mb or so again. then scan until it reaches critical ram and stop the scan again....and so on and so on...

i'm sorry, but that's not normal behaviour
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Old 11th October 2011, 00:11   #6
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well, as i've said elsewhere, i have 50k files, 5k albums, and i have never had it crash from a watch folder scan. i have however seen the RAM usage increase over time, and seen winamp slow down quite a lot.

what kind of files do you have? i think you need to see that not everyone is having your problems, where the ram explodes and crashes predictably, so the thought is it might be something unique about your setup...?

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Old 11th October 2011, 10:39   #7
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did you clear your library and then have it scan including all the meta data? if so and it doesn't flood your memory, then it must be something else.

i am using windows 7 x64. maybe it's a 64bit problem?
one way or another, i don't see how it could be a hardware problem. because it would be up to winamp to not use 1.5gb of ram just to scan watched folders. and i googled it and other people seem to have the same problem. that's how i found the "solution" of starting and stopping before winamp crashes.
so it's not just me
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Old 13th October 2011, 01:06   #8
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Hi damenace,

I agree that some scans of very large collections need to be done in stages with
Winamp. I suggested adding RAM in order to allow for more files in each stage.
I also agree that this work-around (scaning in stages) is undesirable.

If you could include the additional info requested by the devs, maybe one of them
will respond. I copied the following from the 2nd post at the start of this thread.


"List of Plugins" (required) and "HijackThis" logs attached in zip,
along with any other related crash logs (if relevant).
(Attachment feature available via the 'Post A Reply' button)
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Old 13th October 2011, 01:26   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrSinatra View Post
what kind of files do you have?
???

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Old 13th October 2011, 06:28   #10
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Adding RAM is
a) not sensible (would probably need 16GB looking at the rate winamp is consuming my ram)
b) not possible (notebook)

I updated to the current Winamp 5.621 and have no plugins installed. Just the cpro_Bento skin which shouldn't be causing any of this.

If Winamp created a log I'd post it. The HiJackThis log is simply a list of active processes. Not sure what that's supposed to help. Don't really like sharing that info on a public forum either. If a dev would like one, I can pm it.
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Old 13th October 2011, 08:54   #11
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@damenance: I agree, adding RAM would not be needed to "complete a scan". It sounds to me more like you have a few corrupted files in there. I have a 65,000+ track collection which gets scanned without problems - and this is on a 64bit system. (There are many people with much bigger collections than me)

I have also had a scan of that same huge collection crash because of a corrupted M4A file. I have also had it crash in the past when the wrong file extension was in use on a file - in both cases these bugs were reported and fixed.

RAM gets allocated when a program needs it, and then releases it again when it has finished. It is not something you should worry about. If it is a worry to you, then just buy more RAM. Especially as you are making comments about a tiny 100MB of RAM usage which is nothing in a modern 3GB system.

Start a fresh thread, and we can try and trace through your problem. But first just try scanning chunks of your collection and watch where your crash occurs, I expect it is related to a file location more than an amount of memory.
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Old 13th October 2011, 10:14   #12
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100MB? No, I am saying it runs up to more than 1000MB and then crashes somewhere around 1.6GB.
I don't know if there are any corrupted files? Winamp scans them all and seems to show and play them all. One way or another, it increases ram steadily.
I'll look for a tool to record a small video for you guys to see and believe.
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Old 13th October 2011, 10:17   #13
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Hi,

I did not say adding memory would fix the problem. I said it is an undesirable
way to work-around the problem when scanning in stages (less stages).

And in addition to high memory use when scanning, I recalled reading a post
recently that reported having the library panel open with hi-res album cover
art will consume a lot of memory.

I use art, it's not hi-res, but I decided to check what happens on my system.

I use 9 or 10 non-standard plugins and only play MP3s with Winamp. I don't
install the video playback stuff and only the basic plugin for support of mobile
devices. The skin (+ plugin) I prefer only displays the art for the track that is
playing and keeps the library panel closed unless I open it. This configuration
initially uses less than 38,000 KB on my system and climbs to about 70,000 KB
when I open the library panel. My panel is set up to display 10 covers at a time.

Almost double memory use just sitting there looking pretty. Memory use climbs
to over 102,000 KB when I start playing a track. It pretty much stays within a
1,000 KB of that just playing the playlist, even if I toggle the library panel with
the initial 10 covers. However if I scroll more covers into view memory use climbs
and it takes a long time to drop. If I had hi-res art and scrolled through a good
portion of my covers, I have no doubt memory use would exceed 1 GB.

If I never open the library panel and just play the playlist, avg memory is around
77,000 KB.

Some of this may be Win 7 keeping stuff in memory in case of short term reuse.
But, the devs definitely need to look into this non-release of not needed memory,
memory leak, or whatever. Especially with the 'push' to use the Big Bento skin.
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Old 13th October 2011, 10:32   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damenace View Post
100MB? No, I am saying it runs up to more than 1000MB and then crashes somewhere around 1.6GB.
I don't know if there are any corrupted files? Winamp scans them all and seems to show and play them all. One way or another, it increases ram steadily.
I'll look for a tool to record a small video for you guys to see and believe.
I took the 100MB comment from a later post. Have now re-read your original and see the 1500MB comment. Still nothing to worry about. Programs use memory, that is what it is there for, and if some other program needs that memory, then it will be allocated to it. And there is no real need for your video, that is a waste of your time. Memory is used by all computer programs.

Just for my own curiosity, I am going to get Winamp installed on my Win7 64-bit laptop as that only has 3GB like your PC. I'll point it at my music store on the network and watch the RAM use.

There are many people with huge music collections who are noticeably not here reporting issues, so I am still pretty certain you will find more of a file issue than your "running out of RAM" theory. (Basically - it is almost impossible to run out of RAM. Even if Winamp did go memory chomping mad... all you would see is an ever increasing amount of Virtual Memory.)

I am not trying to be a "fanboi" making excuses for Winamp, I am trying to help you trace your problems. And I know when I had those corrupted files in my collection, everything "looked" fine. All the other tracks seemed to be read okay. Just these odd ones would lead to a crash.
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Old 13th October 2011, 10:59   #15
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Hi Batter Pudding,

Glad you're gonna test this on your laptop.

Your statements about memory management are basically what I posted on
the 10th.

I have had no crashes with v 5.621, but I did have to scan in stages for the
initial scan using the Gracenote playlist generator with previous versions in
order to get a successful scan of my small (6000+) collection. The memory
use rose to a very high level and the scan would stall out if I tried scanning
all the files at once.

I know that's not the same scanning issue damenace is reporting, but they
may be related.
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Old 13th October 2011, 11:10   #16
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ok, low res of course because it's an 8min video, but you can see how the ram usage steadily increases until it crashes winamp at 1824MB. of course all the scanned information is lost afterwards.
it's usually faster, but the screen recording tool does seem to use quite a bit of cpu but that has nothing to do with winamp, so...

http://imageshack.us/clip/my-videos/841/poo.mp4
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Old 13th October 2011, 11:43   #17
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@damenace: laptop just getting Windows updates out of the way, and then I will scan.

This is a virgin scan. Winamp Pro is freshly installed (No Agent, Orgler, Winamp Detector Pluggin). Zero addons - not even added the Essentials Pack yet. The scan will be done pointing at files on my server - a wide mix of files types. 66,000 tracks / 16,000 albums.

I notice you say:
Method of Reproduction:
- Select a folder with more than 2000albums as a Watched Folder
- Scan
- RAM will fill up and then at around 1500MB RAM Winamp will crash

Is that scan being done in the foreground or background? Are you scanning from the Preferences page or the menu on the Library button in the main Media Library?

Note - there is no process in Windows that would "crash" an application for asking for too much RAM. All that Windows does is share out the available RAM the programs ask for, and when they ask for too much, Virtual Memory is used instead. (I used to be a C\C++ Windows programmer, and still do a bit of coding in hobby time)
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Old 13th October 2011, 11:46   #18
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Just did a quick watch of your video... so answered for myself how you do your scan.

Notice the last folder name that is being scanned is shown on screen at the end of the video. Scan JUST this folder and see if it crashes for you.
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Old 13th October 2011, 11:47   #19
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Hi damenace,

Good job on the video. I noticed memory use momentarily hit 90% around
1.652 GB and drop to 87%. Then it climbed again to the crash point at 92%.
Don't know if that means anything. You had around 100 processes running
and something else could have momentarily kicked in.

If it is a bad file, you can remove the folder from the list that was being scanned
at the time of the crash and try again.
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Old 13th October 2011, 12:15   #20
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That video is just plain weird when I play it alongside my own scanning. Your memory deltas are huge. I glance over at my laptop, and the memory is only rising by a small trickle. On your video, that memory is jumping up at a rapid rate. 3-6MB being added at every refresh. I am barely adding 4KB per refresh!!

What pluggins have you got installed? Have you changed any settings from default that are requesting the extra data? Remember - my laptop is a virgin install of Winamp. No pluggins added other than what is in the installer. Only change of preferences was to remove the "check for new version at start up" and then setting the tickboxes on the Watch Folders dialog to match your video screen.

Is your U: drive over the network? Or an external hard drive via USB?


My scan still has a long way to go. i3 laptop working via wireless to a network folder. 15mins so far and still only a small dent into my collection. In that time I have not even added 10MB to the memory allocated by Winamp. (Started at 46,000KB. Currently 53,000KB)

(Will come back later with final results for you)
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Old 13th October 2011, 12:40   #21
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I'll try to answer all the questions

let's see.
- The drive is an external USB drive (2TB)
- crashes if I scan from preferences and also if I set it to automatically scan at start-up and also if I set it to automatically scan every 10min
- the processes running don't spike at any point. neither does cpu consumption. only program acting up is winamp. i assume that windows keeps freeing up ram, hence the drop every now and then, but winamp just keeps hogging ram
- i thought it might be a specific file or folder, so when i first encountered the problem i checked and it is neither it's completely random which file/folder is being scanned when the system crashes.

is there a way of listing all plugins installed without writing them all down from the menu?
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Old 13th October 2011, 12:47   #22
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Pluggins - yes, you want to find the "onefornunz" tool listed in the stickies in the Tech Support pages. http://forums.winamp.com/showthread....161361#plugins (I find this one easier to use: http://www.nunzioweb.com/daz/files/nunz.exe )

This is certainly a puzzle.... what on earth makes your memory jump so HIGH at each refresh? Still 45mins into my scan at it is only at 64,000KB. (I am only on the P's in my MP3 folder, so a long way to go yet as there is a "messy" folder to come)

And what is "different" with your MP3 folders? For example, how big is the artwork?

My MP3s are all ripped with Winamp at high quality, artwork added via Winamp's own lookups or cut and pastes from Amazon and other sources.

Majority is MP3, but now migrating to FLAC as and when I get time to rip.

There is also a HUGE folder of random crud copied from mates.

None of this is causing the memory spikes you are seeing.


Edit: Sorry - having to abandon this for now. Need to go see a client. The important thing is in an hour I have not seen any huge memory jumps like you were getting in 8 minutes.

Time: 1hr 15mins; RAM climbed from 46,000K to 74,000K; Physical Memory from 41% to 43%. 11,000 tracks in 1000 albums.

I will delete the library on my return from the client and the restart the scan. (I'll speed it up next time by running laptop on mains, and connect the LAN cable, kill the AV, etc to see if I can get it completed in a sensible time )



YO - MODS - Can you prune this conversation out into its own thread please... We seem to be getting complex here. Thanks

Last edited by Batter Pudding; 13th October 2011 at 13:19. Reason: Added more questinos....
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Old 13th October 2011, 16:48   #23
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i am still waiting for my Q to be answered. will it be?

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Old 13th October 2011, 17:01   #24
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Quote:
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i am still waiting for my Q to be answered. will it be?
Using some detective work, the video shows his folder names are MP3. So I have assumed they are MP3 files.

(I am now putting my money on this being a hi-res artwork issue or something else in his folders that Winamp is reading in. His video shows huge jumps in memory allocation during the scan)
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Old 13th October 2011, 20:47   #25
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Each of my 6000+ files has embedded artwork. I just used the library panel to scroll
through all my covers (4100+ due to aggregation). Memory use rose to over 535 MB.
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Old 13th October 2011, 21:14   #26
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Quote:
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Each of my 6000+ files has embedded artwork. I just used the library panel to scroll
through all my covers (4100+ due to aggregation). Memory use rose to over 535 MB.
I'm pretty sure this will be the source of the issue.

Does each track have an image?
What size image would that be?
Do you insert these, or are they already in there?

(I don't know about extracting the art from an MP3 file. Which is why I am wondering if you have an original for size purposes)

One of the last few releases did change the way artwork is handled. Specifically HiRes art. This could be linked. It would account for the MB steps in the memory going up. Still shouldn't crash... but now I expect this will be reproduceable.
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Old 13th October 2011, 21:20   #27
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MP3tag would let us know the sizeof the embedded image. I found an example MP3 podcast on my PC. Regular download. That artwork is a measly 601x601 78KB image.
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Old 13th October 2011, 21:40   #28
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I downloaded and embedded an image for each of my files from various websites.
The resolutions vary, none are hi-res. I would have to check, but I think the largest
is 500 x 500.
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Old 13th October 2011, 21:47   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Batter Pudding View Post
MP3tag would let us know the sizeof the embedded image. I found an example MP3 podcast on my PC. Regular download. That artwork is a measly 601x601 78KB image.
That's my point. I have only 6000+ small images that caused a memory increase to
over 535 MB.
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Old 13th October 2011, 22:43   #30
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each track has an image. i make sure every track i have is properly tagged and properly equipped with artwork. most are min 500x500. some larger some smaller. not sure about the filesizes. most should be hires

i would reckon that 95% are MP3s (most are 320cbr) and the rest are flac and ogg and m4a.

attached is the output of nunz
Attached Files
File Type: zip Winamp.zip (2.6 KB, 256 views)
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Old 13th October 2011, 23:22   #31
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@damenace: can you download mp3tag from mp3tag.de and check the sizes of your artwork? I'll then see if I can rig something on this virgin laptop with lots of embedded artwork. I think this is the key the devs will need as 99% of my music will not have embedded artwork as I use the old classic "single image in the album folder".
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Old 14th October 2011, 01:33   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damenace View Post
each track has an image. i make sure every track i have is properly tagged and properly equipped with artwork. most are min 500x500. some larger some smaller. not sure about the filesizes. most should be hires
Just to clarify terms. I would not call 500x500 hi-res. At least 720x480 and usually
1280x720 and larger are hi-res, imo.

While it is possible to embed a 16 MB image in an ID3V2 tag, I have never seen one
that big.

Are you saying you may have some embedded images equal or greater than your
monitor's resolution?

Also not sure what you mean by properly tagged. The maximum size of a ID3V2 tag
is 256 MB. Don't know, but I'll bet Winamp is not designed to handle tens of thousands
of tags anywhere near that big, all at once.

Not saying your tags are anywhere near that big. But if you have some very large
images embedded here and there, that maybe the problem.
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Old 14th October 2011, 03:38   #33
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This may only be news to me, but looking at my embedded images with MP3Tag, I just
noticed that jpegs with the same resolutions can have different file sizes. Also, a lower
resolution image can have a much larger file size than a higher resolution image. I had
thought that images of the same type and resolution would have the same file size.

So should the trouble-shooting focus be on image resolution or file size or both?

Only 510 of my 6183 images are greater than 50 KB. The largest is 1568x1536 at 1MB.
I had no idea I had embedded an image that big. Wasn't paying attention that day.
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Old 14th October 2011, 08:04   #34
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i have been using mp3tag to tag my files and album art browser to add to the rest.

i am not sure if there is a way to check the total files sizes or anything but did a quick check.
some are just 40-100kb and some are 300-900kb.
i guess that the larger ones are the ones i added with album art browser as i like to add them hires.

some were png and some jpg when i added them.
if album art is missing i let the tool search, it then stores either a png or jpg and then i have mp3tag automatically embedd it into every file.

that could of course be an issue as winamp of course loads the artwork for every file. rightly so and it should work.
never thought of that maybe causing the problem myself.

p.s.:
in album art hires is 500x500 and above and of course minimum compression. so lores would be the 60kb and hires the 600kb versions.
and properly tagged just means that all the fields carry information. some people have libraries where even the main fields like artist or title are missing. i do not and winamp of course reads all the info. but that's just a lot of info, not a lot of MB/kB
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Old 14th October 2011, 08:22   #35
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i would run the files thru mp3val, and i would also spearate the files into 5 "chunks" or so, and try scanning each chunk, and see if the problem is in all chucks, or just some of them.

PENN STATE Radio or http://www.LION-Radio.org/
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BUG #1 = Winamp skips short tracks
Wish #1 = Multiple Column Sorting
Wish #2 = Add TCMP/Compilation editing
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Old 14th October 2011, 09:48   #36
Aminifu
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Hi MrSinatra,

damenace also has flac, ogg, and m4a files. What is a good way to check them for
problems?

Quote:
Originally Posted by damenace View Post
p.s.:
in album art hires is 500x500 and above and of course minimum compression. so lores would be the 60kb and hires the 600kb versions.
and properly tagged just means that all the fields carry information. some people have libraries where even the main fields like artist or title are missing. i do not and winamp of course reads all the info. but that's just a lot of info, not a lot of MB/kB
Hi damenace,

Compression! Of course, forgot about compression. That's what causes the different
file sizes, independent of resolution. Thanx for your definition of hi-res.

Again, just to keep us talking about the same thing. You really fill out all the ID3V2.3 tag
fields? Or all the fields MP3Tag can display, or those fields it displays by default? The link
below is to a wikipedia article on the ID3 specs.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ID3#ID3v2
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Old 14th October 2011, 10:19   #37
damenace
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no, not all of them.
those that mp3tag displays and any fields that e.g. amazon or musicbrainz adds/completes. i just meant to say, that i do not have any files without proper tagging.

not sure why i should check all my files for corruption. makes no sense. as you can see from the video, clearly all my files would need to be damaged for such a continuous increase in ram. and i'm sorry, that's simply not possible.

album art would be an interesting thing to analyze. however i am not sure how to. only way would be to copy my entire library and have all the artwork removed via mp3tag. but i don't have the disc space right now.
couldn't find an option in winamp to deactivate album art import.
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Old 14th October 2011, 10:46   #38
Batter Pudding
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Oooo - this has gone well while I have been in bed on the other side of the pond.

When Winamp was first built, the album art was tiny. Maybe a single 60KB image per album. Now we seem to be talking of single track art at between 60-600KB each image. So could mean ten tracks with 600KB images in them adding up to 6MB. That example above with the 1MB image could give that album 10MB of storage required. This fits the video.

Sounds like the devs need to pack a few albums with some meaty images and run tests that way. I expect old code used to dealing with a single small image per album is now going pop. A memory leak of a few KB from not cleaning up the memory from a few album images was fine in the old days of small images and small hard disks. Now we have a potential of 60,000 x 1MB images that memory leak becomes vicious.


Note: Jpegs and PNGs have an image compression option. This is why you can see some JPGs looking very "jaggy" online due to much heavier compression. A Bitmap will always be the exact perfect image, but huge. So a JPEG is used to compress that to a smaller file, discarding some of the details that the human eye can't see. When you use a program like IrfanView to save your image, you get a slider scaled 1 to 10 to choose quality vs file size.

A JPEG is exactly like am MP3 file. Size vs quality.

(I doubt the flac, ogg, m4a matters here as I expect they are acting in the exact same way.)


This is going to be an issue that will only get worse. Images will get bigger, so I expect Winamp will need to address this. Especially as there is no excuse for a crash\lock up like is seen in the video.
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Old 14th October 2011, 10:52   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by damenace View Post
not sure why i should check all my files for corruption.
I don't think you need to check now. We have found the difference between your music collection and my test one. The maths add up to allow for the problems shown in your video. There has to be a memory leak in the image handling code. An array must be overflowing its storage, and then eventually stomping on something vital in memory which is when you see your "whiteout" on the video.

A single corrupted file would sometimes crash winamp. Your crashes are at different places each time, and your scanning of those folders separately shows no corruption.

I also don't think you need to go to the state of copying your entire library to a non-art version. Use my test case as a comparison. My music has tiny art on a per album basis and climbs in very small steps. Whereas you have all that nice quality art in every track, and your memory leaps up in chunks to match that.

Memory is being allocated for images, and then not released.
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Old 14th October 2011, 10:53   #40
damenace
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i just check just 20 albums locally with album art browser and most are 800x800@300kB, i.e. a minimum of 3MB per album just for album art.
and i have some at 1425x1425@1017kB, i.e. an album with album art of over 15MB.

and i was actually thinking of updating my album art anyway as a lot of those 60kB files just look awful in winamp. maybe need to put that on hold until winamp is fixed
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